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Just a minor quibble--it seems in the long list of foreign-based languages spoken within France that there is a redundancy--Croatian is listed in the "c"s and also mentioned in the "s"s under Serbo-Croatian.
I propose to eliminate the separate entry for Croatian as unneccessary (and inequitable--I see no listing for Serbian on its own). If no-one objects within a week or so I will do so. RSekulovich 16:03, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
What are the sources for these notes, or are they original research? For example, note 2 says 'Typically, the mother tongue of the youngest generations is much more frequently French than for the older generations.' Is the claim that those under 18 are less likely to be immigrants, that immigrants tend to be adults, and that their children grow up as native French speakers? How is the figure of 90% then calculated? kwami 02:34, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
It is unfortunate that the Oïl Languages were grouped together in the census—over half a million speakers spread over close to 10 languages doesn't necessarily help at all with estimating speakership for any given oïl language, other than that speakership averages close to 50,000.-- The Jade Knight 06:41, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
I suppressed the following (from User:206.172.95.184):
The survey AND THESE NOTES do not take in account the very important fact that all the French people who have French as their mother tongue do not all speak the same "French" but speak one of many regional variations. Each region of France has a very typical regional accent, an accent that come from the regional language that was spoken in that region for centuries. In addition, in each region people use words that are not French but come from the regional language. This is very obvious when one travel around France or listen to the TV or radio. What is interesting is that children whose parents immigrated to France also speak French with a strong regional accent.
Different "typical regional accents" (and some specific local words) do not mean that it is not the same French which is spoken through the country. Apokrif 13:44, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
obviously Apokrif has never heard someone speaking Bordeluche and other regional versions of French that Parisians can't understand AT ALL!. These regional variations do not use the standard French gramatical rules and use not just a few words but several thousands of them that have little to do with French. so called Quebecois is another version of French that is very very different from the standard spoken French,if there is such a thing (calice! mon chum a pockete le bumper du char). Many Quebecois don't like their language to be called "Quebecois". For them it is French, period, and many of them believe that people from France don't speak proper French. As a group they refer to themselves as Francophones and English speaking Canadians also refer to them as Francophones (yes I am familiar with Quebec). By the way, why is "Quebecois" on a map of "the languages of France"? Quebec hasn't been French since 1759 or so. Who wrote the entry on "languages of France"? why no mention of the 1951 Loi Deixonne and no mention of the (1998)"rapport de Mr. B.Poignant a Mr L.Jospin,Premier ministre,sur les langues regionales de France"? just asking. J-L Brussac January 20/06
I only mentionned Quebecois because it is on the left top handside of a map on this site that is supposed to be about the languages of France. I just doesn't make sense. J-L B..January 24, 06
It has been proposed that Languages of Oïl be renamed and moved to Langues d'Oïl. Comments and votes on Talk:Languages of Oïl, please, if you're interested. Man vyi 09:22, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
Can someone please explain what the colors in this big map represent?
I'm translation the article patois for the Hebrew Wikipedia.
It says:
I couldn't find sources for this statement neither here nor there. Any help? -- Amir E. Aharoni 07:03, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
I disagree with this sentence: "Opponents contend that local languages are often non-standardised (thus making curricula difficult), of dubious practical usefulness (since most are spoken by a small number of people, without any sizable corpus of publications)"
We can say that "oponents contend ... (whatever)" but the sentence "since most are spoken by a small number of people, without any sizeble corpus of publications" seems (or at least it seems to me) to be an appreciation given by the editor and such information, as far as I know, is not true. According to the English wikipedia: Catalan -> 9.000.000 speakers Basque -> 1.063.000 speakers Occitan -> 1.939.000 speakers Breton -> 200.000 speakers Franco-Provençal-> 113.400 speakers
I personally don't think these are "small" numbers of speakers. What we consider a "small number" of speakers?
I think this paragraph should be rewriten. option 1: "since SOME are spoken by ... " option 2: "... by samall number of people INSIDE THE FRENCH STATE..." ... and this way data or references should be provided. etc. -- Monturiol ( talk) 19:58, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
I had the impression that standard German was widely spoken in Alsace-Lorraine. Is this wrong? Dynzmoar ( talk) 15:25, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
I assume there is a mistake, is there anyone alive today who actually speak Old Frankish in regular manner in France? I can't find the language in the german article (which is a bit more complete), and strongly suggest to either give refernces or delete the language in the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.225.180.13 ( talk) 09:30, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
To explain why the total of speakers is at 102% of the French popuplation, the text says that "2% of people have both French and another language as their mother tongue, thus, they are counted twice". This is wrong, the children are not in the survey. So we don't have an excess of 2% but an excess of 18% of people that are bilingual. Or perhaps 16% bilingual and 2% trilingual. In any case the 2% is dubious to me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.154.8.12 ( talk) 14:34, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
The results were published in Enquête familiale, Insee, 1999 http://www.cmh.ens.fr/adisp/documents/lil-0173/lil-0173dcod.pdf
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Just a minor quibble--it seems in the long list of foreign-based languages spoken within France that there is a redundancy--Croatian is listed in the "c"s and also mentioned in the "s"s under Serbo-Croatian.
I propose to eliminate the separate entry for Croatian as unneccessary (and inequitable--I see no listing for Serbian on its own). If no-one objects within a week or so I will do so. RSekulovich 16:03, 4 January 2008 (UTC)
What are the sources for these notes, or are they original research? For example, note 2 says 'Typically, the mother tongue of the youngest generations is much more frequently French than for the older generations.' Is the claim that those under 18 are less likely to be immigrants, that immigrants tend to be adults, and that their children grow up as native French speakers? How is the figure of 90% then calculated? kwami 02:34, 28 September 2005 (UTC)
It is unfortunate that the Oïl Languages were grouped together in the census—over half a million speakers spread over close to 10 languages doesn't necessarily help at all with estimating speakership for any given oïl language, other than that speakership averages close to 50,000.-- The Jade Knight 06:41, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
I suppressed the following (from User:206.172.95.184):
The survey AND THESE NOTES do not take in account the very important fact that all the French people who have French as their mother tongue do not all speak the same "French" but speak one of many regional variations. Each region of France has a very typical regional accent, an accent that come from the regional language that was spoken in that region for centuries. In addition, in each region people use words that are not French but come from the regional language. This is very obvious when one travel around France or listen to the TV or radio. What is interesting is that children whose parents immigrated to France also speak French with a strong regional accent.
Different "typical regional accents" (and some specific local words) do not mean that it is not the same French which is spoken through the country. Apokrif 13:44, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
obviously Apokrif has never heard someone speaking Bordeluche and other regional versions of French that Parisians can't understand AT ALL!. These regional variations do not use the standard French gramatical rules and use not just a few words but several thousands of them that have little to do with French. so called Quebecois is another version of French that is very very different from the standard spoken French,if there is such a thing (calice! mon chum a pockete le bumper du char). Many Quebecois don't like their language to be called "Quebecois". For them it is French, period, and many of them believe that people from France don't speak proper French. As a group they refer to themselves as Francophones and English speaking Canadians also refer to them as Francophones (yes I am familiar with Quebec). By the way, why is "Quebecois" on a map of "the languages of France"? Quebec hasn't been French since 1759 or so. Who wrote the entry on "languages of France"? why no mention of the 1951 Loi Deixonne and no mention of the (1998)"rapport de Mr. B.Poignant a Mr L.Jospin,Premier ministre,sur les langues regionales de France"? just asking. J-L Brussac January 20/06
I only mentionned Quebecois because it is on the left top handside of a map on this site that is supposed to be about the languages of France. I just doesn't make sense. J-L B..January 24, 06
It has been proposed that Languages of Oïl be renamed and moved to Langues d'Oïl. Comments and votes on Talk:Languages of Oïl, please, if you're interested. Man vyi 09:22, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
Can someone please explain what the colors in this big map represent?
I'm translation the article patois for the Hebrew Wikipedia.
It says:
I couldn't find sources for this statement neither here nor there. Any help? -- Amir E. Aharoni 07:03, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
I disagree with this sentence: "Opponents contend that local languages are often non-standardised (thus making curricula difficult), of dubious practical usefulness (since most are spoken by a small number of people, without any sizable corpus of publications)"
We can say that "oponents contend ... (whatever)" but the sentence "since most are spoken by a small number of people, without any sizeble corpus of publications" seems (or at least it seems to me) to be an appreciation given by the editor and such information, as far as I know, is not true. According to the English wikipedia: Catalan -> 9.000.000 speakers Basque -> 1.063.000 speakers Occitan -> 1.939.000 speakers Breton -> 200.000 speakers Franco-Provençal-> 113.400 speakers
I personally don't think these are "small" numbers of speakers. What we consider a "small number" of speakers?
I think this paragraph should be rewriten. option 1: "since SOME are spoken by ... " option 2: "... by samall number of people INSIDE THE FRENCH STATE..." ... and this way data or references should be provided. etc. -- Monturiol ( talk) 19:58, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
I had the impression that standard German was widely spoken in Alsace-Lorraine. Is this wrong? Dynzmoar ( talk) 15:25, 11 January 2014 (UTC)
I assume there is a mistake, is there anyone alive today who actually speak Old Frankish in regular manner in France? I can't find the language in the german article (which is a bit more complete), and strongly suggest to either give refernces or delete the language in the list. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.225.180.13 ( talk) 09:30, 31 December 2014 (UTC)
To explain why the total of speakers is at 102% of the French popuplation, the text says that "2% of people have both French and another language as their mother tongue, thus, they are counted twice". This is wrong, the children are not in the survey. So we don't have an excess of 2% but an excess of 18% of people that are bilingual. Or perhaps 16% bilingual and 2% trilingual. In any case the 2% is dubious to me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.154.8.12 ( talk) 14:34, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
The results were published in Enquête familiale, Insee, 1999 http://www.cmh.ens.fr/adisp/documents/lil-0173/lil-0173dcod.pdf
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