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Today's anon edit states explicitly that the Lake District covers a wider area then the National Park. I disagree - my impression has always been that wherever you cross the NP boundary there's a clear transition from typically non-Lakeland to typically Lakeland scenery. What does anyone else think, and can we have a reference to support this POV please? In the absence of references (and this article sorely needs some, by the way), it would be most neutral and verifiable to revert to saying that "the Lake District is a national park". -- Blisco 18:15, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
the link to the poem of that name takes you to a wikipedia article about the plant; that would be fine if the article was talking about the plant but it's talking about the poem
why don't I fix it? well why don't you delete some of the endless "featured" articles about computer games, Simpsons episodes and related crap
(smiley face) Mr Poechalkdust ( talk) 09:31, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
The current wide-aspect image really isn't suitable as a lead image as its small height means the image isn't too clear when set at the recommended width of 300 pixels, and 400 pixels is too wide/intrusive. It would be better if someone could come up with a more conventional shaped image for the lead - there are lots to choose from on Wikimedia Commons -- Simple Bob ( talk) 16:45, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
There is no good reason to ignore the guideline here, 300px maximum. Though I'd definitely try to find a more appropriate image for the lead. Jeni ( talk) 17:44, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
The Lake District is one out of 15 National Parks in Britain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.110.124.209 ( talk) 19:06, 26 January 2010 (UTC) The Lake District is very very beautifull —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.164.255.229 ( talk) 12:57, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
I've uploaded a location map of the Lake District to Commons (shown to right). I have not created an associated {{ location map}} template, but this can easily be done if desired.
If this is created, it allow enable creation a map of the Lakes similar to the one under construction at Talk:Dartmoor#Location map, and could be used in related articles (see this example). Hope people find it useful.-- Nilf anion ( talk) 21:58, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
On what basis has the area been divided into the sections that appear on the map and are described in the text? Are they entirely arbitrary for this article or is there some particular basis to this division? It would be helpful to the reader to have it explained. thanks Geopersona ( talk) 20:17, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Looking at the map to the right, I see dark lines seemingly splitting the Park 4-ways, N, S, E & W. They look to me like the borough boundaries within the county of Cumbria; namely: N: Allerdale; S: South Lakeland District; E: Eden W: Copeland.
pmailkeey 2011:9:3 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.47.169 ( talk) 19:19, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
Is there a good reference for the extremely high (over 5,000 mm) average annual rainfall recorded at Sprinkling Tarn? I've looked for one but can't find any.
Meltingpot ( talk) 18:05, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, I look forward to reading them. I remember that 257 in (or it might have been 256 in?) figure from an early 1970s edition of the "Guinness Book of Records". Meltingpot ( talk) 10:27, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
I've now had a look at both of those references and I don't think either of them is authoritative, sorry. One of them links back to the Wikipedia entry about Sprinkling Tarn, which in turn links to a site called "Lakes, Meres, Tarns & Water" which doesn't give any meteorological information about the tarn, and the other one doesn't give any meteorological references to support the claim; it just says the annual average there is over 5,000 mm.
In the absence of any better reference I think we should use this one as a source for the highest average annual rainfall figures in both England and Wales;
https://blog.metoffice.gov.uk/2014/10/20/what-is-the-wettest-city-in-the-uk/
Meltingpot ( talk) 18:05, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for this. Yes, 6056mm - that's a lot of rain (approx. 238.43 inches in old measurements). Meltingpot ( talk) 08:56, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
The agriculture section talks of sheep being 'heafed'. Is this a local dialect word or else an error for the commonly used term 'hefted' which refers to the practice described? cheers Geopersona ( talk) 20:22, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Whilst the examples given are doubtless a part of the Cumbrian dialect they are not local only to the Lake District as, I think, the text implies. Malham Tarn and Cross Fell immediately come to mind as just two instances of localities employing these terms which are considerably removed from the Lake District. Perhaps an expert in dialect might assist us? This section might in any case better be titled 'Place-names' or 'Dialect terms' - depending on what we want from it of course. cheers Geopersona ( talk) 18:43, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
The statement that Windermere Lake Steamers are now the UK's second most popular charging tourist attraction is not referenced. Whilst it might just be true, it seems to me to be unlikely - there must surely be many venues in London for a start which greatly exceed the numbers who ride the Windermere steamers. cheers Geopersona ( talk) 18:46, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Keswick Panorama - Oct 2009.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on May 16, 2011. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2011-05-16. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! howcheng { chat} 22:04, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
I have long thought that for such an important topic this has been a sub-standard article. I'm pleased to see that the map subdividing it has gone and perhaps now is the time to take a fresh look at a description of the place. I believe the readability of the article would also benefit from a removal of the long lists of peaks and lakes - these are adequately covered on other pages (or if not thought to be adequate, these list could easily be improved). I shall probably get around to making some changes shortly but if anyone has been meaning to do the same, then perhaps an appropriate way forward could be agreed upon? cheers Geopersona ( talk) 18:52, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Whatever Bill Smith's merits as a person and a fellrunner, it is inappropriate to list him under 'see also', as this section would rapidly exceed the size of the article itself if every Lakeland devotee were linked to. I have therefore removed the link. cheers Geopersona ( talk) 18:54, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
Those who are able to supply images will be able to helpfully illustrate the new sections I've added on settlements and transport - I hope! thanks Geopersona ( talk) 12:16, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
Much more could be said about both topics and a split into two sections would be desirable. If nobody else gets around to it, I'll make a start myself at some point. Mind you it would be better if experts were to take a hand in this and supply suitable references for the material. There is still a lot of woolly stuff in this article as a whole (pun not originally intended but there we are!) cheers Geopersona ( talk) 19:16, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
I think this usage is almost entirely adjectival, and indeed commercial, as in "Lakeland scenery". See this talk page for examples. Rothorpe ( talk) 23:49, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone have enough knowledge to add a section on the Park's section of coastline to the Physical Geography section? Not the part of the Park one instantly pictures, but it struck me as an obvious omission? Grunners ( talk) 09:54, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Not too long ago I added Coniferous forest, deciduous forest, lake and moorland as biomes in the infobox. I am starting to think whether they should be more specific or biomes should be only added if they are confined to the park. Sl3nderman3006 ( talk) 00:09, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
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This is out of date now that the Lake District and Yorkshire Dales national parks extended in 2016 so that they now about each other at the M6 motorway. Could someone who know s how to do these tings modify or replace it with something modern? I expect it will be used in other articles too. cheers Geopersona ( talk) 09:45, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
I question the accuracy and intelligibility of:
The Lake District National Park includes nearly all of the Lake District, though the town of Kendal, some coastal areas, and the Lakeland Peninsulas are currently outside the park boundary.
This seems to imply that Kendal and much of the coast should be considered as part of the Lake District. This does not fit with most guide books, including historic guide books. For instance, Martineau's guide (the one that has probably been in the longest usage over the time that tourists have visited the area) covers the coastal settlements of, for instance, Seascale, Ravenglass, Drigg, etc. - but if you read the text it is clear that they are only in the book because they are useful access points to the Lake District, having hotels, railway stations, etc. Baddeley's guide is the same - the maps in it are the first clue - they do not even take in the south-western end of Wastwater, and Kendal barely makes it onto the index map.
Given the entirely different geography of the western coastal plain that lies between the fells and the sea, I would struggle to see how anyone could consider them part of the Lake District. The same applies to the peninsulas and Kendal. What makes you think that the prison at Haverigg should be considered part of the Lake District, or the shipyard at Barrow? The clue surely has to be in the name, the Lake District is typified by the Lakes, which happen to be surrounded by fells. One could even go so far as to say that the LDNPA boundaries take in some places that are not part of the Lake District - for instance Gosforth, or the Irton levels.
For this piece of the article to survive, I think it needs to be supported by highly authoritative sources, with no similar sources taking a contrary view. ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 00:22, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
The English Lake District is a self-contained mountainous area in North West England of some 2,292 square kilometres. Its narrow, glaciated valleys radiating from the central massif with their steep hillsides and slender lakes exhibit an extraordinary beauty and harmony.....
For locals, the distinction is the National Park boundary, if it's within, then it's the Lake District, if it's just outside then it's referred as "being close to" or "just outside". I can't think of anywhere just out outside the National Park that is deemed to be part of the Lake District, except, maybe Cockermouth + Kendal. Regards -- Devokewater (talk) 10:38, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
References
I've WP:BOLDly split the section about the national park off into its own article. My rationale is that the Lake District was known as such long before the designation of the park in 1951, and most of the information in this article is about the Lake District, not specifically about the park. In addition, the article contained an infobox that was really specific to the park. Finally, as the content notes, the park isn't coterminous with the district.
Some content in this article outside of the original section about the park references the park. In each of these cases, I or someone else needs to see whether
Largoplazo ( talk) 11:42, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
The article currently says (under Gastronomy):
"The region has four
Michelin Star restaurants:
L'Enclume,
The Samling in
Ambleside, The Forest Side and Gilpin Hotel."
L'Enclume is situated outside the National Park (and therefore outside the World Heritage Site) in Cartmel. Noting that the article struggles to reach a definition of what is meant by "the Lake District", I question whether or not this Michelin starred restaurant should be in the list. If the consensus goes against me and the article includes this restaurant, the reference should be [1]
The Samling Hotel is listed in the Michelin Guide, but has lost its Michelin star. [2]
Missing from the article are the following, all new for the 2020 list:
The Cottage in the Wood (Braithwaite, CA12 5TW) [3]
Allium at Askham Hall (CA10 2PF) [4]
Old Stamp House (Ambleside) [5]
The Forest Side and the Gilpin Hotel (or more correctly, Hrishi - this hotel has 2 restaurants, the other is only Michelin listed, not starred) both continue to be Michelin starred. [6] [7] Counting that all up, that makes 5 restaurants with a Michelin star in the Lake District - or 6 if people insist that Cartmel is in the Lake District (which I really think it is not). It might be a better alternative, if L'Enclume is to be mentioned, to say that the 2-starred L'Enclume is just outside the park's boundary in Cartmel. ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 19:42, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
References
I've just been BOLD and merged 'Lake District National Park' back into this article. The former article wasn't very long, so most of its content could easily be incorporated into a subsection here, with some going into other subsections and a little removed as duplication.
When a national park covers a pre-existing region I find it's often possible to include information on the park (e.g. its administration and purpose) as a subsection of the region's article, rather than it needing its own page. You can see this at Snowdonia, Exmoor, and New Forest, for example. From what I can gather park-specific references were never fully removed from this article after the 2019 split, and I'd suggest that's in part because the region and national park cover nearly identical areas and so it's easier to discuss them together. So long as we're careful about language where the boundaries of the national park and pre-existing region differ I think we'll be fine.
[pinging @ Devokewater, @ Largoplazo] A.D.Hope ( talk) 13:07, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
This
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Today's anon edit states explicitly that the Lake District covers a wider area then the National Park. I disagree - my impression has always been that wherever you cross the NP boundary there's a clear transition from typically non-Lakeland to typically Lakeland scenery. What does anyone else think, and can we have a reference to support this POV please? In the absence of references (and this article sorely needs some, by the way), it would be most neutral and verifiable to revert to saying that "the Lake District is a national park". -- Blisco 18:15, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
the link to the poem of that name takes you to a wikipedia article about the plant; that would be fine if the article was talking about the plant but it's talking about the poem
why don't I fix it? well why don't you delete some of the endless "featured" articles about computer games, Simpsons episodes and related crap
(smiley face) Mr Poechalkdust ( talk) 09:31, 12 June 2009 (UTC)
The current wide-aspect image really isn't suitable as a lead image as its small height means the image isn't too clear when set at the recommended width of 300 pixels, and 400 pixels is too wide/intrusive. It would be better if someone could come up with a more conventional shaped image for the lead - there are lots to choose from on Wikimedia Commons -- Simple Bob ( talk) 16:45, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
There is no good reason to ignore the guideline here, 300px maximum. Though I'd definitely try to find a more appropriate image for the lead. Jeni ( talk) 17:44, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
The Lake District is one out of 15 National Parks in Britain. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.110.124.209 ( talk) 19:06, 26 January 2010 (UTC) The Lake District is very very beautifull —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.164.255.229 ( talk) 12:57, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
I've uploaded a location map of the Lake District to Commons (shown to right). I have not created an associated {{ location map}} template, but this can easily be done if desired.
If this is created, it allow enable creation a map of the Lakes similar to the one under construction at Talk:Dartmoor#Location map, and could be used in related articles (see this example). Hope people find it useful.-- Nilf anion ( talk) 21:58, 29 October 2010 (UTC)
On what basis has the area been divided into the sections that appear on the map and are described in the text? Are they entirely arbitrary for this article or is there some particular basis to this division? It would be helpful to the reader to have it explained. thanks Geopersona ( talk) 20:17, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Looking at the map to the right, I see dark lines seemingly splitting the Park 4-ways, N, S, E & W. They look to me like the borough boundaries within the county of Cumbria; namely: N: Allerdale; S: South Lakeland District; E: Eden W: Copeland.
pmailkeey 2011:9:3 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.141.47.169 ( talk) 19:19, 3 September 2011 (UTC)
Is there a good reference for the extremely high (over 5,000 mm) average annual rainfall recorded at Sprinkling Tarn? I've looked for one but can't find any.
Meltingpot ( talk) 18:05, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, I look forward to reading them. I remember that 257 in (or it might have been 256 in?) figure from an early 1970s edition of the "Guinness Book of Records". Meltingpot ( talk) 10:27, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
I've now had a look at both of those references and I don't think either of them is authoritative, sorry. One of them links back to the Wikipedia entry about Sprinkling Tarn, which in turn links to a site called "Lakes, Meres, Tarns & Water" which doesn't give any meteorological information about the tarn, and the other one doesn't give any meteorological references to support the claim; it just says the annual average there is over 5,000 mm.
In the absence of any better reference I think we should use this one as a source for the highest average annual rainfall figures in both England and Wales;
https://blog.metoffice.gov.uk/2014/10/20/what-is-the-wettest-city-in-the-uk/
Meltingpot ( talk) 18:05, 22 October 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for this. Yes, 6056mm - that's a lot of rain (approx. 238.43 inches in old measurements). Meltingpot ( talk) 08:56, 14 November 2019 (UTC)
The agriculture section talks of sheep being 'heafed'. Is this a local dialect word or else an error for the commonly used term 'hefted' which refers to the practice described? cheers Geopersona ( talk) 20:22, 28 November 2010 (UTC)
Whilst the examples given are doubtless a part of the Cumbrian dialect they are not local only to the Lake District as, I think, the text implies. Malham Tarn and Cross Fell immediately come to mind as just two instances of localities employing these terms which are considerably removed from the Lake District. Perhaps an expert in dialect might assist us? This section might in any case better be titled 'Place-names' or 'Dialect terms' - depending on what we want from it of course. cheers Geopersona ( talk) 18:43, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
The statement that Windermere Lake Steamers are now the UK's second most popular charging tourist attraction is not referenced. Whilst it might just be true, it seems to me to be unlikely - there must surely be many venues in London for a start which greatly exceed the numbers who ride the Windermere steamers. cheers Geopersona ( talk) 18:46, 9 December 2010 (UTC)
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Keswick Panorama - Oct 2009.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on May 16, 2011. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2011-05-16. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! howcheng { chat} 22:04, 15 May 2011 (UTC)
I have long thought that for such an important topic this has been a sub-standard article. I'm pleased to see that the map subdividing it has gone and perhaps now is the time to take a fresh look at a description of the place. I believe the readability of the article would also benefit from a removal of the long lists of peaks and lakes - these are adequately covered on other pages (or if not thought to be adequate, these list could easily be improved). I shall probably get around to making some changes shortly but if anyone has been meaning to do the same, then perhaps an appropriate way forward could be agreed upon? cheers Geopersona ( talk) 18:52, 19 September 2011 (UTC)
Whatever Bill Smith's merits as a person and a fellrunner, it is inappropriate to list him under 'see also', as this section would rapidly exceed the size of the article itself if every Lakeland devotee were linked to. I have therefore removed the link. cheers Geopersona ( talk) 18:54, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
Those who are able to supply images will be able to helpfully illustrate the new sections I've added on settlements and transport - I hope! thanks Geopersona ( talk) 12:16, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
Much more could be said about both topics and a split into two sections would be desirable. If nobody else gets around to it, I'll make a start myself at some point. Mind you it would be better if experts were to take a hand in this and supply suitable references for the material. There is still a lot of woolly stuff in this article as a whole (pun not originally intended but there we are!) cheers Geopersona ( talk) 19:16, 16 October 2011 (UTC)
I think this usage is almost entirely adjectival, and indeed commercial, as in "Lakeland scenery". See this talk page for examples. Rothorpe ( talk) 23:49, 26 February 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone have enough knowledge to add a section on the Park's section of coastline to the Physical Geography section? Not the part of the Park one instantly pictures, but it struck me as an obvious omission? Grunners ( talk) 09:54, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Not too long ago I added Coniferous forest, deciduous forest, lake and moorland as biomes in the infobox. I am starting to think whether they should be more specific or biomes should be only added if they are confined to the park. Sl3nderman3006 ( talk) 00:09, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
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This is out of date now that the Lake District and Yorkshire Dales national parks extended in 2016 so that they now about each other at the M6 motorway. Could someone who know s how to do these tings modify or replace it with something modern? I expect it will be used in other articles too. cheers Geopersona ( talk) 09:45, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
I question the accuracy and intelligibility of:
The Lake District National Park includes nearly all of the Lake District, though the town of Kendal, some coastal areas, and the Lakeland Peninsulas are currently outside the park boundary.
This seems to imply that Kendal and much of the coast should be considered as part of the Lake District. This does not fit with most guide books, including historic guide books. For instance, Martineau's guide (the one that has probably been in the longest usage over the time that tourists have visited the area) covers the coastal settlements of, for instance, Seascale, Ravenglass, Drigg, etc. - but if you read the text it is clear that they are only in the book because they are useful access points to the Lake District, having hotels, railway stations, etc. Baddeley's guide is the same - the maps in it are the first clue - they do not even take in the south-western end of Wastwater, and Kendal barely makes it onto the index map.
Given the entirely different geography of the western coastal plain that lies between the fells and the sea, I would struggle to see how anyone could consider them part of the Lake District. The same applies to the peninsulas and Kendal. What makes you think that the prison at Haverigg should be considered part of the Lake District, or the shipyard at Barrow? The clue surely has to be in the name, the Lake District is typified by the Lakes, which happen to be surrounded by fells. One could even go so far as to say that the LDNPA boundaries take in some places that are not part of the Lake District - for instance Gosforth, or the Irton levels.
For this piece of the article to survive, I think it needs to be supported by highly authoritative sources, with no similar sources taking a contrary view. ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 00:22, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
The English Lake District is a self-contained mountainous area in North West England of some 2,292 square kilometres. Its narrow, glaciated valleys radiating from the central massif with their steep hillsides and slender lakes exhibit an extraordinary beauty and harmony.....
For locals, the distinction is the National Park boundary, if it's within, then it's the Lake District, if it's just outside then it's referred as "being close to" or "just outside". I can't think of anywhere just out outside the National Park that is deemed to be part of the Lake District, except, maybe Cockermouth + Kendal. Regards -- Devokewater (talk) 10:38, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
References
I've WP:BOLDly split the section about the national park off into its own article. My rationale is that the Lake District was known as such long before the designation of the park in 1951, and most of the information in this article is about the Lake District, not specifically about the park. In addition, the article contained an infobox that was really specific to the park. Finally, as the content notes, the park isn't coterminous with the district.
Some content in this article outside of the original section about the park references the park. In each of these cases, I or someone else needs to see whether
Largoplazo ( talk) 11:42, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
The article currently says (under Gastronomy):
"The region has four
Michelin Star restaurants:
L'Enclume,
The Samling in
Ambleside, The Forest Side and Gilpin Hotel."
L'Enclume is situated outside the National Park (and therefore outside the World Heritage Site) in Cartmel. Noting that the article struggles to reach a definition of what is meant by "the Lake District", I question whether or not this Michelin starred restaurant should be in the list. If the consensus goes against me and the article includes this restaurant, the reference should be [1]
The Samling Hotel is listed in the Michelin Guide, but has lost its Michelin star. [2]
Missing from the article are the following, all new for the 2020 list:
The Cottage in the Wood (Braithwaite, CA12 5TW) [3]
Allium at Askham Hall (CA10 2PF) [4]
Old Stamp House (Ambleside) [5]
The Forest Side and the Gilpin Hotel (or more correctly, Hrishi - this hotel has 2 restaurants, the other is only Michelin listed, not starred) both continue to be Michelin starred. [6] [7] Counting that all up, that makes 5 restaurants with a Michelin star in the Lake District - or 6 if people insist that Cartmel is in the Lake District (which I really think it is not). It might be a better alternative, if L'Enclume is to be mentioned, to say that the 2-starred L'Enclume is just outside the park's boundary in Cartmel. ThoughtIdRetired ( talk) 19:42, 26 October 2019 (UTC)
References
I've just been BOLD and merged 'Lake District National Park' back into this article. The former article wasn't very long, so most of its content could easily be incorporated into a subsection here, with some going into other subsections and a little removed as duplication.
When a national park covers a pre-existing region I find it's often possible to include information on the park (e.g. its administration and purpose) as a subsection of the region's article, rather than it needing its own page. You can see this at Snowdonia, Exmoor, and New Forest, for example. From what I can gather park-specific references were never fully removed from this article after the 2019 split, and I'd suggest that's in part because the region and national park cover nearly identical areas and so it's easier to discuss them together. So long as we're careful about language where the boundaries of the national park and pre-existing region differ I think we'll be fine.
[pinging @ Devokewater, @ Largoplazo] A.D.Hope ( talk) 13:07, 20 June 2023 (UTC)