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Pleased to pick this up and sorry for the lengthy wait. I'll complete the review within the next three days.
KJP1 (
talk)
16:41, 9 July 2017 (UTC)reply
Actually, it took a bit less time than I thought. I've put the article on hold and suggestions/comments are within the review. I appreciate you're on vacation, so just ping me here, or on my Talkpage, when you're back. Regards.
KJP1 (
talk)
22:25, 9 July 2017 (UTC)reply
Quick fail criteria assessment
The article completely lacks reliable sources – see Wikipedia:Verifiability.
The topic is treated in an obviously non-neutral way – see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view.
There are cleanup banners that are obviously still valid, including cleanup, wikify, NPOV, unreferenced or large numbers of fact, clarifyme, or similar tags.
The article is or has been the subject of ongoing or recent, unresolved edit wars.
The article specifically concerns a rapidly unfolding current event with a definite endpoint.
The standard of prose is good and I will Pass on this criterion, subject to review of the suggestions below.
Lede
It is referred to as a "lifestyle center" and a "shopping mall" in the space of 9 words. Given that the two are different, and have different Wikipedia articles, shouldn't we decide which it is? I'm no shopping expert, but I read "lifestyle center" as a shopping mall with add-ons, food outlets, bowling alley, etc. Has Lahaina got any of the latter, following the closure of The Melting Pot? If it hasn't, isn't it just a mall?
"The mall has been managed and owned by various companies, and the mall itself has been in foreclosure on two separate occasions" - you use "mall" twice in 12 words and is the "separate" necessary? How about, "The mall has been managed and owned by various companies and has twice been in foreclosure."
"some of the buildings' facades featuring stucco accents" - are we talking of the facades of one building, or the facades of a number of buildings? If the former, then the apostrophe's in the wrong place.
First, this section's longer than the main section about the mall. Is it a bit too detailed? See suggestions below. Also, the second paragraph about "events", which may contribute to its lifestyle center claim, doesn't appear to me to be "Background". Would that para. sit better in the next?
Personally, I believe it fits well as is. However, I did add an "Event" subtitle to the section, which I hope will make more sense. What do you think?
Carbrera (
talk)
05:45, 29 July 2017 (UTC).reply
"acquired the center (which had gone into foreclosure) in 2011" - why have we brackets here, rather than commas?
"TNP CEO Anthony W. "Tony" Thompson" - that's quite a mouthful! And one acronym following another is a bit clumsy. Could he not be, "TNP Chief Executive Anthony Thompson"?
"news of foreclosure drew significant demand to leasing at the center" - not sure this is clear, or supported by the citation. I don't think "Tony" (I'm a mate!) is saying that "foreclosure drew", i.e. attracted, demand, I think he's just said it followed TNP's purchase. And I think it's demand for leasing, not to.
"the center went into foreclosure again, which allowed competitor Strategic Retail Trust to become the new owner of the mall a year after Central Pacific Bank attained the center" - a few things here. Who is SRT the competitor of? I assume it's TNP but it's not clear. And what's CPB doing "attaining" the center? And why do we have "center" twice again? I'd suggest something like, "In November 2012 the center went into foreclosure again, and was purchased by TNP's rival, Strategic Retail Trust, from TNP's backers, the Central Pacific Bank."
"Lahaina Gateway is currently managed by The Festival Companies, according to their official website." Whose website, Lahaina's or TFC's? And it's a dead link (see below).
"the annual Wiki Wiki Run runs near the shopping center" - does the Run have to run? It's a little clumsy. How about "the annual Wiki Wiki Run takes place near the shopping center"?
"some of the structures use stucco on their exterior appearance" - it sounds like they're applying makeup! Can't it just be "on their exteriors"? Or on their "external facades"?
"the history of horses and Hawaiian culture" - the history of horses in Hawaiian culture? Or was it doing two things, a history of horses worldwide and, quite separately, Hawaiian culture? If the latter, why was it linking the two?
"a fondue-centered restaurant" - does this differ from a fondue restaurant? It sounds like it would have a big vat of cheese in the middle of the room.
"becoming the largest shopping center in western Maui." - I think this needs a citation.
Revised – It looks like Western Partitions changed URLs a while back so that's why it came up as a dead link; I updated the ref and added it here.
Carbrera (
talk)
05:32, 29 July 2017 (UTC).reply
"The mall was developed by Western Partitions, Inc. with Kiewit Construction serving as its contractor." - Citation for this as well.
"roughly half of the property's estimated worth" - the source, which does give the $32M figure, doesn't appear to support the claim that this was half the estimated worth.
"a classic car show that took place in March 2015." - This has two cites while other, important details, "largest" etc., have none. Overkill on the former, I'd suggest.
d (No evidence of plagiarism or copyright violations):
The Copyvio Tool comes up 0% and I don't see any evidence of too close paraphrasing of sources.
3. It is broad in its scope
a (major aspects)
I think it's as broad as it can be. It's a shopping mall, less than 10 years old, which has had a bumpy financial ride. I think these core details are covered.
b (focused):
It doesn't stray from the key focus of the article.
There is a perfectly serviceable image in the infobox, but the article could be improved by one or two more. I think architecture articles always benefit from pictures, but it's not a grounds to fail the article under the criteria.
KJP1 – thank you for the very thorough review. I'm going to be addressing these points over the next week, if that is all right with you. I appreciate the depth you put into this review. Regards,
Carbrera (
talk)
23:27, 21 July 2017 (UTC).reply
Carbrera - Absolutely fine. And no hurry, just ping me when you're done and I'll drop by to wrap it up. Everything looks eminently fixable to me, provided you can get replacements for the few dead cites. Hope you had a good vacation and the review was my pleasure.
KJP1 (
talk)
06:02, 22 July 2017 (UTC)reply
KJP1 – I believe I accomplished everything. Thank you again for the very thorough review. I nominated this quite awhile back so some updating and fact-checking was long overdue. Thanks so much,
Carbrera (
talk)
05:45, 29 July 2017 (UTC).reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Hawaii, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Hawaii on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.HawaiiWikipedia:WikiProject HawaiiTemplate:WikiProject HawaiiHawaii articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Shopping Centers, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of enclosed
shopping malls, outdoor shopping centers, and
dead malls on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Shopping CentersWikipedia:WikiProject Shopping CentersTemplate:WikiProject Shopping CentersShopping center articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the
United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
Pleased to pick this up and sorry for the lengthy wait. I'll complete the review within the next three days.
KJP1 (
talk)
16:41, 9 July 2017 (UTC)reply
Actually, it took a bit less time than I thought. I've put the article on hold and suggestions/comments are within the review. I appreciate you're on vacation, so just ping me here, or on my Talkpage, when you're back. Regards.
KJP1 (
talk)
22:25, 9 July 2017 (UTC)reply
Quick fail criteria assessment
The article completely lacks reliable sources – see Wikipedia:Verifiability.
The topic is treated in an obviously non-neutral way – see Wikipedia:Neutral point of view.
There are cleanup banners that are obviously still valid, including cleanup, wikify, NPOV, unreferenced or large numbers of fact, clarifyme, or similar tags.
The article is or has been the subject of ongoing or recent, unresolved edit wars.
The article specifically concerns a rapidly unfolding current event with a definite endpoint.
The standard of prose is good and I will Pass on this criterion, subject to review of the suggestions below.
Lede
It is referred to as a "lifestyle center" and a "shopping mall" in the space of 9 words. Given that the two are different, and have different Wikipedia articles, shouldn't we decide which it is? I'm no shopping expert, but I read "lifestyle center" as a shopping mall with add-ons, food outlets, bowling alley, etc. Has Lahaina got any of the latter, following the closure of The Melting Pot? If it hasn't, isn't it just a mall?
"The mall has been managed and owned by various companies, and the mall itself has been in foreclosure on two separate occasions" - you use "mall" twice in 12 words and is the "separate" necessary? How about, "The mall has been managed and owned by various companies and has twice been in foreclosure."
"some of the buildings' facades featuring stucco accents" - are we talking of the facades of one building, or the facades of a number of buildings? If the former, then the apostrophe's in the wrong place.
First, this section's longer than the main section about the mall. Is it a bit too detailed? See suggestions below. Also, the second paragraph about "events", which may contribute to its lifestyle center claim, doesn't appear to me to be "Background". Would that para. sit better in the next?
Personally, I believe it fits well as is. However, I did add an "Event" subtitle to the section, which I hope will make more sense. What do you think?
Carbrera (
talk)
05:45, 29 July 2017 (UTC).reply
"acquired the center (which had gone into foreclosure) in 2011" - why have we brackets here, rather than commas?
"TNP CEO Anthony W. "Tony" Thompson" - that's quite a mouthful! And one acronym following another is a bit clumsy. Could he not be, "TNP Chief Executive Anthony Thompson"?
"news of foreclosure drew significant demand to leasing at the center" - not sure this is clear, or supported by the citation. I don't think "Tony" (I'm a mate!) is saying that "foreclosure drew", i.e. attracted, demand, I think he's just said it followed TNP's purchase. And I think it's demand for leasing, not to.
"the center went into foreclosure again, which allowed competitor Strategic Retail Trust to become the new owner of the mall a year after Central Pacific Bank attained the center" - a few things here. Who is SRT the competitor of? I assume it's TNP but it's not clear. And what's CPB doing "attaining" the center? And why do we have "center" twice again? I'd suggest something like, "In November 2012 the center went into foreclosure again, and was purchased by TNP's rival, Strategic Retail Trust, from TNP's backers, the Central Pacific Bank."
"Lahaina Gateway is currently managed by The Festival Companies, according to their official website." Whose website, Lahaina's or TFC's? And it's a dead link (see below).
"the annual Wiki Wiki Run runs near the shopping center" - does the Run have to run? It's a little clumsy. How about "the annual Wiki Wiki Run takes place near the shopping center"?
"some of the structures use stucco on their exterior appearance" - it sounds like they're applying makeup! Can't it just be "on their exteriors"? Or on their "external facades"?
"the history of horses and Hawaiian culture" - the history of horses in Hawaiian culture? Or was it doing two things, a history of horses worldwide and, quite separately, Hawaiian culture? If the latter, why was it linking the two?
"a fondue-centered restaurant" - does this differ from a fondue restaurant? It sounds like it would have a big vat of cheese in the middle of the room.
"becoming the largest shopping center in western Maui." - I think this needs a citation.
Revised – It looks like Western Partitions changed URLs a while back so that's why it came up as a dead link; I updated the ref and added it here.
Carbrera (
talk)
05:32, 29 July 2017 (UTC).reply
"The mall was developed by Western Partitions, Inc. with Kiewit Construction serving as its contractor." - Citation for this as well.
"roughly half of the property's estimated worth" - the source, which does give the $32M figure, doesn't appear to support the claim that this was half the estimated worth.
"a classic car show that took place in March 2015." - This has two cites while other, important details, "largest" etc., have none. Overkill on the former, I'd suggest.
d (No evidence of plagiarism or copyright violations):
The Copyvio Tool comes up 0% and I don't see any evidence of too close paraphrasing of sources.
3. It is broad in its scope
a (major aspects)
I think it's as broad as it can be. It's a shopping mall, less than 10 years old, which has had a bumpy financial ride. I think these core details are covered.
b (focused):
It doesn't stray from the key focus of the article.
There is a perfectly serviceable image in the infobox, but the article could be improved by one or two more. I think architecture articles always benefit from pictures, but it's not a grounds to fail the article under the criteria.
KJP1 – thank you for the very thorough review. I'm going to be addressing these points over the next week, if that is all right with you. I appreciate the depth you put into this review. Regards,
Carbrera (
talk)
23:27, 21 July 2017 (UTC).reply
Carbrera - Absolutely fine. And no hurry, just ping me when you're done and I'll drop by to wrap it up. Everything looks eminently fixable to me, provided you can get replacements for the few dead cites. Hope you had a good vacation and the review was my pleasure.
KJP1 (
talk)
06:02, 22 July 2017 (UTC)reply
KJP1 – I believe I accomplished everything. Thank you again for the very thorough review. I nominated this quite awhile back so some updating and fact-checking was long overdue. Thanks so much,
Carbrera (
talk)
05:45, 29 July 2017 (UTC).reply