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I am using materials from http://www.hvk.org/articles/0801/92.html which may be copyrighted. However as this is a speech by Lt Gen S K Sinha, I don't think there might be any issues. Knowledgable persons, please have a look into the issue and advice.
Moreover, some fine tuning is still required. I am working on them. Works to do:
...
Should we put a paragraph for Lt Gen S K Sinha for his work on Lachit Borphukan? Prabhakar 08:11, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Chaipau 20:12, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I thought putting the portion on Battle of Saraighat would be relevent as I am trying to put it emphesizing Lachits credits, even at the cost of duplicacy of 4/5 lines.
Prabhakar 08:17, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Please go through the re-edited article. I have moved a great portion to Battle of Saraighat.
Prabhakar 09:36, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 18:33, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
If anyone's watching this article, I suggest that they go through the text with a little care and remove some of the peacocking. I'd prefer not to do it myself... Relata refero ( talk) 12:27, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
I request the editors not to delete this section as it will add more flavour to this article and will show how brave Lachit was, this will also show the particulers about that battle. I will request contributers to add few more contents from the refrence which i had given if they agree on my point. I some one have any arguments or objections i am ready for discussion. Regards-- Sandeep ( talk) 11:58, 12 April 2010 (UTC) dear friend i had done reasonable changes by adding inline links still as you have issue i had changed some line links but i think rest is required.-- Sandeep ( talk) 12:30, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
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LACHIT BORPHUKAN BELONGS TO LAN FIMA FAMILY OF AHOM TRIBE NOT FROM CHUTIA TRIBE. AS REFERENCE ANCIENT SCRIPT WRITTEN IN AHOM LANGUAGE. Chow Mridu Pawan ( talk) 15:13, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
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LACHIT BORPHUKAN BELONGS TO LAN FIMA FAMILY OF AHOM TRIBE NOT FROM CHUTIA TRIBE. AS REFERENCE ANCIENT SCRIPT WRITTEN IN AHOM LANGUAGE. [1] Chow Mridu Pawan ( talk) 10:09, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
References
I don't understand what problem editor Chaipau has with me. I corrected a simple thing. Even here he had to put his nose. Isn't it a Wikipedia thing that an editor can correct certain things, I would like to know what wrong did I do here? Since the word Lachit was used twice, I corrected it and wrote he instead. 11Anonymous1122 ( talk) 09:23, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
Also, I don't mind if someone corrects me, but using terms like dubious edit rather than grammatical errors is not acceptable when I have just replaced a noun with pronoun. 11Anonymous1122 ( talk) 09:41, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
Male 42.105.178.28 ( talk) 01:40, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
It is pretty impossible to sieve the historical Lachit from the many legends that enmesh him. In my understanding of Buranjis, they belong to the same genre of literarure as Meitei Puyas and suffer from the same issues and are yet to be critically studied by professional historians. We cannot use Bhuyan or his contemporaries either; consult Bodhisattva Kar's assessment of Bhuyan's historiography or Manjeet Baruah's commentary. TrangaBellam ( talk) 10:25, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
In their accounts of the Ahom-Bangal encounters, some of these chronicles made brief allusions to a victory narrowly won over the Mughal commander Ram Singh in a naval conflict by his Ahom counterpart, Lachit Barphukan [..]
SK Bhuyan’s accounts of Jaymati and Lachit were only the latest in a series of writings on these heroic themes by the Assamese intelligentsia, part of the literature that they were creating along with nation [..] Significantly, all these works were brought into the embrace of History, by emphasizing their association with buranji. Thus, the fictive speeches in Lachit Barphukan [were] valourized as contributions to the ‘authentic’ record that was available for Assam’s past.
@ TrangaBellam: I think I understand the problem with S K Bhuyan. He is very difficult to pigeonhole into a category. Is he a historian or a litterateur? Is he an Assamese nationalist or an Indian nationalist? Are his Buranjis primary historical documents or historiographies? Are they addressed to a professional historian or a nationalist? Is he a conventional historian or an oral historian? There are many such questions that could be legitimately asked.
Nevertheless, I do not agree with Kar's characterization of him. He writes:
The influential Tungkhungia Buranji,
published in 1933, was compiled by the editor from numerous contemporary Buranjis in the languages and manner
of the old chronicles...the whole method of mobilising discrete and widely spaced texts into one coherent historical narrative might appear disquieting to the professional historians today. However, the textual politics of editing the Buranjis corresponded to the larger politics of defining selfhood in terms of the unitary and the singular, of the authentic and the immobile
Kar's use of the phrase "textual politics" sounds as if Bhuyan has a hidden agenda. This is misleading since Bhuyan records both his intentions, the details of the editorial steps, and the sources he has used all very precisely in his prefaces. For example, here Bhuyan states clearly that he is providing a "collated" history from different sources precisely because the sources are fragmented.
Tungkhingia Buranji, therefore, consists of the chronicle of Srinath Barbarua, corresponding to paragraphs 1, the first 19 lines of paragraph 2, and paragraphs 83 to 342; the additional matter newly collated by the editor corresponds to the latter 27 lines of paragraph 2, and paragraphs 2 to 82
He lists the sources for the additional material meticulously in page V of the preface to first edition. Thus, Bhuyan himself gives away the key to deconstruct his Buranjis.
As far as this article is concerned the preface to Bhuyan's Lachit Barphukan and his Times is likely more relevant. Bhuyan claims to source most of the Assam version of the Battle of Saraighat from an account by an eye witness to those events. I encourage you to read page XV of the preface where he describes this source. Once again Bhuyan gives the key for his readers to deconstruct his narrative. Still, given the issues, the historicity of Lachit Barphukan can be sourced from historians like Jadunath Sarkar, who has given a fullish account of Ram Singh's expedition (in the Comprehensive History of Assam).
Yasmin Saikia began questioning the Ahom identity formation (which is a legitimate exercise) but she ended up contesting the entire corpus of Buranjis and associated chronicles. Historians from Assam are not too comfortable with this: read Jayeeta Sharma's review] of the book, where she says of the narrative from the Buranjis:
This was the generally accepted outline of the Ahom presence in Assam. It gained support from anthropologists and linguists studying large-scale migrations by Tai populations between the eighth to the eighteenth centuries who carried rice and irrigation technology into Laos, Yunnan, Burma, and Assam.
Saikia's raises some interesting questions, but her challenge to the Buranjis is particularly weak.
Chaipau ( talk) 19:46, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
The textual tradition of writing buranjis developed initially in conversation with neighbouring courts in the East, of Tripura and Manipur. The writing tradition in these courts, in turn, drew upon the Burmese chronicle of kings.Sanjib Baruah, even if his domain of expertise is not in this area, approves of Saikia's reading of Buranjis in 2018. I am going through Y. Saikia's 1997 text, which is more focused on buranjis and she did note of S. East Asian connections. TrangaBellam ( talk) 12:21, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
The Ahom kingdom was very small [] to have any meaningful connections further afield (Tripura, Manipur).Well, Phukan claims the Ahom kingdom to have had diplomatic connections with their fraternity as far as Yunnan and Myanmar!
[S]cholars like Surjya Kumar Bhuyan ([1935] 2007) and Yasmin Saikia (2004) have pointed out that Buranjis were written not only in Assam or the Brahmaputra Valley but also in Burma (or Myanmar), mostly in the Shan language [..] In this shared textual tradition from the Valley to the northern highlands of Burma, the nature of mapping of communities and spaces is noteworthy. As Saikia points out, the Buranjis from the Brahmaputra Valley up to the highlands of northern Burma not only recorded a shared genealogical past, but also, in the Buranjis, the defined distinction of ‘us’ and ‘them’, i.e., the self and other, was largely absent.
He used Buranjis to supplement his Mughal and other sources, did you mean
He used five Mughal firmans to supplement his Buranjis?
The account of Ahom-Mughal contact, viz the campaigns of Sayyid Abu Bakr, Islam Khan, Mirza Nathula and Mir Jumla, Ram Singh and Mansur Khan (in the Buranjis) generally conforms to the contemporary Persian chronicles, the Baharistan, Padshahnamah, Alamgirnamah, and Fathiyyah. For the period (1625-38), it supplies the history of the activities of Raja Satrajit of Bhushna, as well as the details of the war with the Mughals. It gives not only additional details as to Mir Jumla's invasion but throws light on the quick changes in the fortunes of the two sides in the post Mir Jumla period about which the Persian annals are silent.
Elements of the Tai-Ahom movement are quite radical; indeed, Saikia writes about an overlap between the Tai-Ahom movement and the United Liberation Front of Assam that seeks the restoration of Assam’s independence through armed struggle....I find the argument fascinating, bold, timely, and on the whole, quite persuasive. The book is a refreshing departure from the conventional division of labor between historians and political scientists that study South Asia, the former stopping at 1947 and the latter limiting themselves to the period after independence.
But unfortunately, Saikia is not always on firm ground on the latter period.
but he is totally silent about her findings. In fact he diverts away from her findings and endorses the opposite of what she is claiming.Saikia’s work is no conventional history. It is about the identity movement of a little-known and tiny minority community: the Tai-Ahoms related to the pre-British Ahom kingdom that ruled Assam until 1826. According to Saikia, the term does not refer to a “fixed people”; it is only a “name in circulation” (p. 251) and a “powerful memory” (p. xv). Operating “between history and memory” (p. 13), Saikia reads the Tai-Ahom movement as an effort to “overcome erasure from national history” and to “create a ‘different’ sense of collectivity” (pp. 38–39).
Saikia’s account of the Tai-Ahom story contains important insights on why the modern nation-state has been so unkind to minorities. In India, despite official rhetoric about unity in diversity, regions with small populations lose their voice “in the cacophony of the majority of the Indian parliament” (p. 256). But the way society treats minorities, said Mohandas K. Gandhi, is the measure of civilization.
Indeed here Baruah is stating that the new history has not been written yet, even after Saikia. Something has to come after Saikia, and he is explicit what that should be like:one hopes that a new generation of historians will respond to Saikia’s call for “rewriting a new, composite, national history,” one that is “everyone’s history, not an artificial construct given to the people as a directive from above” (p. 265)
Perhaps historians could learn a lesson or two from Tai-Ahom activists: to restore the autonomy of local pasts, one has to be alert to transnational ties of the past that today’s national maps might obscure.
That citation could have easily gone to Guha- We are not on probabilities :) TrangaBellam ( talk) 08:15, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
Sculpting the Middle Class: History, Masculinity and the Amar Chitra Katha TrangaBellam ( talk) 10:52, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
TrangaBellam ( talk) 14:53, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
The Rock Inscription at Phatasil 1667, near Guwahati, in Sanskrit briefly records the defeat of the Mughals by Namzani Barphukan (Lachit) in 1589 Saka or A. D. 1667.
Pre-colonial buranjis often crossed the confines of a chronicle that only narrates past events with factual accuracy. Rather, they were marked by a 'dual meaning of history' because they spoke both of what happened in the past as well as of what did not happen [..]
Bhuyan sought to complement in his own writings 'facts' with the 'imaginative instinct' ingrained in buranji literature. The boundaries between rationalism, facts, and poetic imagination began to get blurred in his historical works: history often became literature and literature history [..] Buranjir Bani is an example of the 'affective history' created by Bhuyan. The book is a collection of sixteen articles in Assamese on different aspects of the history of Assam. Bhuyan argued in its introductory chapter that an author could bring life to a historical work by adding literary flavour while keeping intact the historicity of events. He also announced that he was writing the essays to create admiration for the nation's past and to inspire people to love their country [..]
His moral stance was, in fact, derived from the buranji texts. The authors of the buranjis wrote of the fate of Ahom kings within a moral framework derived from mythology. Bhunya himself writes, "I for myself will not be satisfied by merely giving a picture of the externals of a nation; and I would ask historians to explore how moral superiority led to the peace, prosperity and solidarity of a nation, and how moral degradation has been the cause of its downfall and decay [..] History will show that the well being has been dependent on an all pervasive moral force, on rigid elimination of unjustness and selfishness in the minutest details of administration."
One critic of Bhuyan is of the opinion that despite uncovering valuable material on Assam's past, his writing is devoid of critical analysis and historical insight. This criticism can be valid if one's only interest is writing scientifically conducted history and recording 'objective' historical truth. Bhuyan's endorsement of rationalist history was only a preference for a particular mode of history writing. Going beyond the concept of objective truth, Bhuyan wanted to make 'the unfamiliar past familiar through the use of figurative language' and thereby give meaning to his narratives. He was concerned that its exclusion from Indian historiography had largely obliterated the Assamese past, putting at stake the very identity of the Assamese language and, hence, of the Assamese nation. The separate identity of the Assamese language needed an Assamese political past strong enough to present a parallel power structure alongside the Mughal state.
— Purakayastha, Sudeshna (2008). "Restructuring the Past in Early-Twentieth-Century Assam: Historiography and Surya Kumar Bhuyan". In Aquil, Raziuddin; Chatterjee, Partha (eds.). History in the Vernacular. Permanent Black. ISBN 978-81-7824-225-5.
TrangaBellam ( talk) 18:48, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
@ TrangaBellam: Purkayastha seems to be arguing that the there did not exist a power structure alongside the Mughal state. Do you agree with it? Chaipau ( talk) 02:26, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
User:TrangaBellam/Sarkar on Saraighat. TrangaBellam ( talk) 17:43, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
Hey @ TrangaBellam, @ Kautilya3, @ Fylindfotberserk, I hope you have this page on your watchlist, because there looks like some effort to push POV material here. Chaipau ( talk) 20:20, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
In August @ Saurabhsaha made two edits, [3] and [4], which had problems of WP:POV, WP:RS, etc. I reverted these edits, but they were reinstated. We shall discuss the problems here.
Conversely, as per historians like Arup Kumar Dutta, the Ahoms, adopted the local Hindu religion during the reign of Sudangpha (1397-1407).The author cited to make this claim is Arup Kumar Dutta is not a historian but a writer of fiction, and no page number is cited for the claim. Dutta is not a historian but a fiction writer and the cited work is branded as reimagined history, as the complete title makes clear--- The Ahoms: A Reimagined History and is, therefore, not WP:RS. The other reference cited is an article by Antara Baruah is about Ahom Maidams that does not mention Sudangpha. The sentence and the cited material have been removed.
During their early days, the Ahoms practiced their own distinct religion. However, beginning in the 16th century, they gradually embraced Hinduism, and by the close of the 17th century, a few community had converted to Hinduism.and the citation. [1] The journal cited International Journal of Recent Technology and Engineering is listed in Beal's list and is considered predatory. (edited) 12:48, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
But, many historians from Assam have stated that Lachit was a Hindu, and while a few of his commanders were Assamese Muslims.because of failed verification. The relevant sentence from page 81 says: [2] "
The historical image refers to seventeen wars fought by the Assamese king Lachit Barphukan [sic] who in 1600s repulsed Mogul invaders." The sentence does not mention Lachit as Hindu; besides it makes two glaring historical blunders—he is called a king (he was only a Barphukan) and all seventeen Ahom-Mughal battles (1616–1681) are attributed to him some of which took place before he was born and some after his death. (edited) 13:02, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
Chaipau ( talk) 12:22, 25 August 2023 (UTC) (edited) 12:37, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
References
My Self Universe Mr .... SENAPATI u know me 223.238.123.156 ( talk) 14:19, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
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I am using materials from http://www.hvk.org/articles/0801/92.html which may be copyrighted. However as this is a speech by Lt Gen S K Sinha, I don't think there might be any issues. Knowledgable persons, please have a look into the issue and advice.
Moreover, some fine tuning is still required. I am working on them. Works to do:
...
Should we put a paragraph for Lt Gen S K Sinha for his work on Lachit Borphukan? Prabhakar 08:11, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Chaipau 20:12, 18 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I thought putting the portion on Battle of Saraighat would be relevent as I am trying to put it emphesizing Lachits credits, even at the cost of duplicacy of 4/5 lines.
Prabhakar 08:17, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
Please go through the re-edited article. I have moved a great portion to Battle of Saraighat.
Prabhakar 09:36, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 18:33, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
If anyone's watching this article, I suggest that they go through the text with a little care and remove some of the peacocking. I'd prefer not to do it myself... Relata refero ( talk) 12:27, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
I request the editors not to delete this section as it will add more flavour to this article and will show how brave Lachit was, this will also show the particulers about that battle. I will request contributers to add few more contents from the refrence which i had given if they agree on my point. I some one have any arguments or objections i am ready for discussion. Regards-- Sandeep ( talk) 11:58, 12 April 2010 (UTC) dear friend i had done reasonable changes by adding inline links still as you have issue i had changed some line links but i think rest is required.-- Sandeep ( talk) 12:30, 10 August 2010 (UTC)
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LACHIT BORPHUKAN BELONGS TO LAN FIMA FAMILY OF AHOM TRIBE NOT FROM CHUTIA TRIBE. AS REFERENCE ANCIENT SCRIPT WRITTEN IN AHOM LANGUAGE. Chow Mridu Pawan ( talk) 15:13, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
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LACHIT BORPHUKAN BELONGS TO LAN FIMA FAMILY OF AHOM TRIBE NOT FROM CHUTIA TRIBE. AS REFERENCE ANCIENT SCRIPT WRITTEN IN AHOM LANGUAGE. [1] Chow Mridu Pawan ( talk) 10:09, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
References
I don't understand what problem editor Chaipau has with me. I corrected a simple thing. Even here he had to put his nose. Isn't it a Wikipedia thing that an editor can correct certain things, I would like to know what wrong did I do here? Since the word Lachit was used twice, I corrected it and wrote he instead. 11Anonymous1122 ( talk) 09:23, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
Also, I don't mind if someone corrects me, but using terms like dubious edit rather than grammatical errors is not acceptable when I have just replaced a noun with pronoun. 11Anonymous1122 ( talk) 09:41, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
Male 42.105.178.28 ( talk) 01:40, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
It is pretty impossible to sieve the historical Lachit from the many legends that enmesh him. In my understanding of Buranjis, they belong to the same genre of literarure as Meitei Puyas and suffer from the same issues and are yet to be critically studied by professional historians. We cannot use Bhuyan or his contemporaries either; consult Bodhisattva Kar's assessment of Bhuyan's historiography or Manjeet Baruah's commentary. TrangaBellam ( talk) 10:25, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
In their accounts of the Ahom-Bangal encounters, some of these chronicles made brief allusions to a victory narrowly won over the Mughal commander Ram Singh in a naval conflict by his Ahom counterpart, Lachit Barphukan [..]
SK Bhuyan’s accounts of Jaymati and Lachit were only the latest in a series of writings on these heroic themes by the Assamese intelligentsia, part of the literature that they were creating along with nation [..] Significantly, all these works were brought into the embrace of History, by emphasizing their association with buranji. Thus, the fictive speeches in Lachit Barphukan [were] valourized as contributions to the ‘authentic’ record that was available for Assam’s past.
@ TrangaBellam: I think I understand the problem with S K Bhuyan. He is very difficult to pigeonhole into a category. Is he a historian or a litterateur? Is he an Assamese nationalist or an Indian nationalist? Are his Buranjis primary historical documents or historiographies? Are they addressed to a professional historian or a nationalist? Is he a conventional historian or an oral historian? There are many such questions that could be legitimately asked.
Nevertheless, I do not agree with Kar's characterization of him. He writes:
The influential Tungkhungia Buranji,
published in 1933, was compiled by the editor from numerous contemporary Buranjis in the languages and manner
of the old chronicles...the whole method of mobilising discrete and widely spaced texts into one coherent historical narrative might appear disquieting to the professional historians today. However, the textual politics of editing the Buranjis corresponded to the larger politics of defining selfhood in terms of the unitary and the singular, of the authentic and the immobile
Kar's use of the phrase "textual politics" sounds as if Bhuyan has a hidden agenda. This is misleading since Bhuyan records both his intentions, the details of the editorial steps, and the sources he has used all very precisely in his prefaces. For example, here Bhuyan states clearly that he is providing a "collated" history from different sources precisely because the sources are fragmented.
Tungkhingia Buranji, therefore, consists of the chronicle of Srinath Barbarua, corresponding to paragraphs 1, the first 19 lines of paragraph 2, and paragraphs 83 to 342; the additional matter newly collated by the editor corresponds to the latter 27 lines of paragraph 2, and paragraphs 2 to 82
He lists the sources for the additional material meticulously in page V of the preface to first edition. Thus, Bhuyan himself gives away the key to deconstruct his Buranjis.
As far as this article is concerned the preface to Bhuyan's Lachit Barphukan and his Times is likely more relevant. Bhuyan claims to source most of the Assam version of the Battle of Saraighat from an account by an eye witness to those events. I encourage you to read page XV of the preface where he describes this source. Once again Bhuyan gives the key for his readers to deconstruct his narrative. Still, given the issues, the historicity of Lachit Barphukan can be sourced from historians like Jadunath Sarkar, who has given a fullish account of Ram Singh's expedition (in the Comprehensive History of Assam).
Yasmin Saikia began questioning the Ahom identity formation (which is a legitimate exercise) but she ended up contesting the entire corpus of Buranjis and associated chronicles. Historians from Assam are not too comfortable with this: read Jayeeta Sharma's review] of the book, where she says of the narrative from the Buranjis:
This was the generally accepted outline of the Ahom presence in Assam. It gained support from anthropologists and linguists studying large-scale migrations by Tai populations between the eighth to the eighteenth centuries who carried rice and irrigation technology into Laos, Yunnan, Burma, and Assam.
Saikia's raises some interesting questions, but her challenge to the Buranjis is particularly weak.
Chaipau ( talk) 19:46, 28 November 2022 (UTC)
The textual tradition of writing buranjis developed initially in conversation with neighbouring courts in the East, of Tripura and Manipur. The writing tradition in these courts, in turn, drew upon the Burmese chronicle of kings.Sanjib Baruah, even if his domain of expertise is not in this area, approves of Saikia's reading of Buranjis in 2018. I am going through Y. Saikia's 1997 text, which is more focused on buranjis and she did note of S. East Asian connections. TrangaBellam ( talk) 12:21, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
The Ahom kingdom was very small [] to have any meaningful connections further afield (Tripura, Manipur).Well, Phukan claims the Ahom kingdom to have had diplomatic connections with their fraternity as far as Yunnan and Myanmar!
[S]cholars like Surjya Kumar Bhuyan ([1935] 2007) and Yasmin Saikia (2004) have pointed out that Buranjis were written not only in Assam or the Brahmaputra Valley but also in Burma (or Myanmar), mostly in the Shan language [..] In this shared textual tradition from the Valley to the northern highlands of Burma, the nature of mapping of communities and spaces is noteworthy. As Saikia points out, the Buranjis from the Brahmaputra Valley up to the highlands of northern Burma not only recorded a shared genealogical past, but also, in the Buranjis, the defined distinction of ‘us’ and ‘them’, i.e., the self and other, was largely absent.
He used Buranjis to supplement his Mughal and other sources, did you mean
He used five Mughal firmans to supplement his Buranjis?
The account of Ahom-Mughal contact, viz the campaigns of Sayyid Abu Bakr, Islam Khan, Mirza Nathula and Mir Jumla, Ram Singh and Mansur Khan (in the Buranjis) generally conforms to the contemporary Persian chronicles, the Baharistan, Padshahnamah, Alamgirnamah, and Fathiyyah. For the period (1625-38), it supplies the history of the activities of Raja Satrajit of Bhushna, as well as the details of the war with the Mughals. It gives not only additional details as to Mir Jumla's invasion but throws light on the quick changes in the fortunes of the two sides in the post Mir Jumla period about which the Persian annals are silent.
Elements of the Tai-Ahom movement are quite radical; indeed, Saikia writes about an overlap between the Tai-Ahom movement and the United Liberation Front of Assam that seeks the restoration of Assam’s independence through armed struggle....I find the argument fascinating, bold, timely, and on the whole, quite persuasive. The book is a refreshing departure from the conventional division of labor between historians and political scientists that study South Asia, the former stopping at 1947 and the latter limiting themselves to the period after independence.
But unfortunately, Saikia is not always on firm ground on the latter period.
but he is totally silent about her findings. In fact he diverts away from her findings and endorses the opposite of what she is claiming.Saikia’s work is no conventional history. It is about the identity movement of a little-known and tiny minority community: the Tai-Ahoms related to the pre-British Ahom kingdom that ruled Assam until 1826. According to Saikia, the term does not refer to a “fixed people”; it is only a “name in circulation” (p. 251) and a “powerful memory” (p. xv). Operating “between history and memory” (p. 13), Saikia reads the Tai-Ahom movement as an effort to “overcome erasure from national history” and to “create a ‘different’ sense of collectivity” (pp. 38–39).
Saikia’s account of the Tai-Ahom story contains important insights on why the modern nation-state has been so unkind to minorities. In India, despite official rhetoric about unity in diversity, regions with small populations lose their voice “in the cacophony of the majority of the Indian parliament” (p. 256). But the way society treats minorities, said Mohandas K. Gandhi, is the measure of civilization.
Indeed here Baruah is stating that the new history has not been written yet, even after Saikia. Something has to come after Saikia, and he is explicit what that should be like:one hopes that a new generation of historians will respond to Saikia’s call for “rewriting a new, composite, national history,” one that is “everyone’s history, not an artificial construct given to the people as a directive from above” (p. 265)
Perhaps historians could learn a lesson or two from Tai-Ahom activists: to restore the autonomy of local pasts, one has to be alert to transnational ties of the past that today’s national maps might obscure.
That citation could have easily gone to Guha- We are not on probabilities :) TrangaBellam ( talk) 08:15, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
Sculpting the Middle Class: History, Masculinity and the Amar Chitra Katha TrangaBellam ( talk) 10:52, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
TrangaBellam ( talk) 14:53, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
The Rock Inscription at Phatasil 1667, near Guwahati, in Sanskrit briefly records the defeat of the Mughals by Namzani Barphukan (Lachit) in 1589 Saka or A. D. 1667.
Pre-colonial buranjis often crossed the confines of a chronicle that only narrates past events with factual accuracy. Rather, they were marked by a 'dual meaning of history' because they spoke both of what happened in the past as well as of what did not happen [..]
Bhuyan sought to complement in his own writings 'facts' with the 'imaginative instinct' ingrained in buranji literature. The boundaries between rationalism, facts, and poetic imagination began to get blurred in his historical works: history often became literature and literature history [..] Buranjir Bani is an example of the 'affective history' created by Bhuyan. The book is a collection of sixteen articles in Assamese on different aspects of the history of Assam. Bhuyan argued in its introductory chapter that an author could bring life to a historical work by adding literary flavour while keeping intact the historicity of events. He also announced that he was writing the essays to create admiration for the nation's past and to inspire people to love their country [..]
His moral stance was, in fact, derived from the buranji texts. The authors of the buranjis wrote of the fate of Ahom kings within a moral framework derived from mythology. Bhunya himself writes, "I for myself will not be satisfied by merely giving a picture of the externals of a nation; and I would ask historians to explore how moral superiority led to the peace, prosperity and solidarity of a nation, and how moral degradation has been the cause of its downfall and decay [..] History will show that the well being has been dependent on an all pervasive moral force, on rigid elimination of unjustness and selfishness in the minutest details of administration."
One critic of Bhuyan is of the opinion that despite uncovering valuable material on Assam's past, his writing is devoid of critical analysis and historical insight. This criticism can be valid if one's only interest is writing scientifically conducted history and recording 'objective' historical truth. Bhuyan's endorsement of rationalist history was only a preference for a particular mode of history writing. Going beyond the concept of objective truth, Bhuyan wanted to make 'the unfamiliar past familiar through the use of figurative language' and thereby give meaning to his narratives. He was concerned that its exclusion from Indian historiography had largely obliterated the Assamese past, putting at stake the very identity of the Assamese language and, hence, of the Assamese nation. The separate identity of the Assamese language needed an Assamese political past strong enough to present a parallel power structure alongside the Mughal state.
— Purakayastha, Sudeshna (2008). "Restructuring the Past in Early-Twentieth-Century Assam: Historiography and Surya Kumar Bhuyan". In Aquil, Raziuddin; Chatterjee, Partha (eds.). History in the Vernacular. Permanent Black. ISBN 978-81-7824-225-5.
TrangaBellam ( talk) 18:48, 5 December 2022 (UTC)
@ TrangaBellam: Purkayastha seems to be arguing that the there did not exist a power structure alongside the Mughal state. Do you agree with it? Chaipau ( talk) 02:26, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
User:TrangaBellam/Sarkar on Saraighat. TrangaBellam ( talk) 17:43, 1 June 2023 (UTC)
Hey @ TrangaBellam, @ Kautilya3, @ Fylindfotberserk, I hope you have this page on your watchlist, because there looks like some effort to push POV material here. Chaipau ( talk) 20:20, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
In August @ Saurabhsaha made two edits, [3] and [4], which had problems of WP:POV, WP:RS, etc. I reverted these edits, but they were reinstated. We shall discuss the problems here.
Conversely, as per historians like Arup Kumar Dutta, the Ahoms, adopted the local Hindu religion during the reign of Sudangpha (1397-1407).The author cited to make this claim is Arup Kumar Dutta is not a historian but a writer of fiction, and no page number is cited for the claim. Dutta is not a historian but a fiction writer and the cited work is branded as reimagined history, as the complete title makes clear--- The Ahoms: A Reimagined History and is, therefore, not WP:RS. The other reference cited is an article by Antara Baruah is about Ahom Maidams that does not mention Sudangpha. The sentence and the cited material have been removed.
During their early days, the Ahoms practiced their own distinct religion. However, beginning in the 16th century, they gradually embraced Hinduism, and by the close of the 17th century, a few community had converted to Hinduism.and the citation. [1] The journal cited International Journal of Recent Technology and Engineering is listed in Beal's list and is considered predatory. (edited) 12:48, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
But, many historians from Assam have stated that Lachit was a Hindu, and while a few of his commanders were Assamese Muslims.because of failed verification. The relevant sentence from page 81 says: [2] "
The historical image refers to seventeen wars fought by the Assamese king Lachit Barphukan [sic] who in 1600s repulsed Mogul invaders." The sentence does not mention Lachit as Hindu; besides it makes two glaring historical blunders—he is called a king (he was only a Barphukan) and all seventeen Ahom-Mughal battles (1616–1681) are attributed to him some of which took place before he was born and some after his death. (edited) 13:02, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
Chaipau ( talk) 12:22, 25 August 2023 (UTC) (edited) 12:37, 25 August 2023 (UTC)
References
My Self Universe Mr .... SENAPATI u know me 223.238.123.156 ( talk) 14:19, 2 May 2024 (UTC)