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I am afraid that the synopsis which was added yesterday is a copyright violation, and should be removed. It is clear that it is copied/pasted from the external link web page which was added with the same edit. Regards 81.83.137.228 ( talk) 17:39, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
It's apparently from Ganzl: Book of Musical Theatre (1988). Obviously in copyright. -- Klein zach 02:25, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
This is not to say that it shouldn't be copyedited for flow, etc. Note that a previous external link Description of the opera, including characters and plot synopsis (oldandsold.com) was merely a copy from that book. I also removed the Recordings section as it was completely empty apart from an external link to the opera-dis discography which is inappropriate. I've moved the link to the external links section. It can be moved back as an inline cite, once someone actually puts some content into a Recordings section. Voceditenore ( talk) 09:07, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
This section did not give a very good idea that the opera has been presented more or less continuously. I added some information about some productions, but I don't have any information about French productions. Can someone add some information about some of the major ones? Thanks! -- Ssilvers ( talk) 22:52, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
I think there were lots of French productions, but I don't speak French. Should we list these TV productions?:
This lists some upcoming productions: http://www.offenbachsociety.org.uk/forthcoming_events_country.htm
-- Ssilvers ( talk) 04:37, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
The public-domain source we are using says 300,000 bottles of wine. The Guide to Musical Theatre says 20,000. That's quite a difference. Is there a third independent source that can provide a number? I checked the French and German wikis but they don't give numbers. Softlavender ( talk) 02:50, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Here's the discography from the French article. Can anyone translate?:
-- Ssilvers ( talk) 04:54, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
In the Musical Numbers chart, which was seemingly imported from French Wiki, in Act 3 the numbering goes from 15b to 9(bis) ["bis" meaning encore; I forgot to translate that but someone can] to 16. This doesn't make sense. I can't find any place to confirm a fix but in the libretto there is indeed an Orchestral interlude/melodrama after 15a and 15b (the conspirators' songs) and then it proceeds as indicated in the chart. Is this a simple error we can fix ourselves? Softlavender ( talk) 08:05, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Now that we have added technical sections like musical numbers, we need to add two substantive sections: (i) Background: How did Offenbach get the idea for it, what was the history of its genesis and development for the stage? What is its place and importance in Offenbach's career? (ii) Reception: What was the critical and box office reception of the original productions and later productions. Also, as I said above, we need more production history, particularly with respect to French productions. Does the French wiki article have any information about these? Some of this info might be in the Holden and/or Lamb articles listed under "References", if anyone has access to those. All the best, -- Ssilvers ( talk) 15:45, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
"It is delicious, the first act, and an incredible fantasy of sparkling gaiety. This is the most ludicrous charge that could be dreaming of glory military, its plumes, its stripes and all its bells and whistles." Sarcey, 1867.
In a room redone and despite the length and other critics accuse of Figaro, the opera buffa was a great success. The first two acts are a real triumph, the third falls a little flat, Offenbach performs cuts from the second performance. Among other tunes, the "Chimes of my grandmother" - which will be retained in the version of Vienna - is removed.[1]
A censorship report dated April 5, seven days before the first manifest many scruples about the piece (the "ridiculous" and military power, as well as "scabrous situations"). This wass censorship, which had already imposed, for example, the name of Gerolstein, invented by Eugene Sue in The Mysteries of Paris, to give a resolutely imaginative plan.
All the crowned heads wanted to see Hortense Schneider, causing an exorbitant fee 2,000 francs a month [ref. desired] in the title role. April 24, Napoleon III to attend the performance,[1] before returning a few days later with the Empress. In early May, Mr. Adolphe Thiers came.[1] On the 15th, the Prince of Wales, son of Queen Victoria, in the chair No. 18 in the lodge balcony. June 1, Alexander II, Tsar of All Russia and the Grand Duke Vladimir. "Miss Schneider's legs seem to have had much effect on the prince Wladimir ... ," said Prosper Mérimée June 6. Later, you could see Bismarck forefront with Moltke and Marshal MacMahon. And even Ismail Pasha, viceroy of Egypt, who comes almost every night during his stay in Paris; the King of Bavaria; King of Portugal; and the King of Sweden.[Ref. desired]
Only the Emperor Franz Joseph of Austria was an exception by not going to "visit" the Grand Duchess during his visits to Paris. Jules Prével noted in Le Figaro: "If the Emperor of Austria has not honored her with his presence, it has twice been announced that he lacked the time, besides he had seen this attractive person in Vienna."[2]
-- Softlavender ( talk) 04:48, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
Additional recordings from the same source noted above the table:
In the Régine Crespin recording, Robert Massard is Boum, while in the Felicity Lott recording, François Le Roux is Boum. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 19:15, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Personally, I'd rather have the discography chart on the article's page. At ten albums, it takes up less room than the musical numbers chart does. I think it's important to have the chart handy and in the same place, so that readers can look at it without switching between pages. Especially since many of the recordings/performances were mentioned in the text, and readers will want to compare and contrast. Also, the character names and descriptions in the Roles chart and Plot summary help readers understand the discography chart. At less than 30,000 bytes, the article is in no way overlong, and I feel that having the chart on a seperate page is undue content forking. Anyway, that's my opinion. Softlavender ( talk) 02:24, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
[left] I have removed the Premiere Opera recording of the 2004 Phila production and substituted the Unique Opera Records LP as Voce suggests. I would support putting the chart back into the main article unless someone can write a really good summary about the key recordings. Softlavender is correct, above, that Wikipedia:Splitting does not support removing the information here. The article is not very long, and the chart is not that big (now only 9 productions). Plus, a couple of days ago, I put the chart into a more compact format with a slightly smaller size that I think made it fit well into the article. Someone reversed my edit, saying that he thought it made the info harder to see, but I still think it looked better and more compact. You can always type cont. + if you want to view it in a larger size. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 17:23, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
Should we add this link to the ELs?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjLQCgy0gEA This was posted to Youtube by the opera company. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 14:29, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
What about one of the Felicity Lott production? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1lQJ4Oc_VY or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBktv3cA-4Y&NR=1 -- Ssilvers ( talk) 14:36, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
Did Garanca record the score?: Here she sings one of the arias: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPHcW4MxcRo -- Ssilvers ( talk) 15:10, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
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We say that Mrs Howard Paul played the Grand Duchess at the November 1867 British premiere at Covent Garden, citing an article by Andrew Lamb. One hesitates to contradict such a leading authority, but all the press reports of the production say that the role was played by Julia Matthews – including The Times, 19 November, p. 6, London Evening Standard, 19 November, p. 3, Morning Advertiser, 19 November, p. 3, The Era, 24 November, p. 11, and The Observer, 24 November, p. 3. According to The Liverpool Daily Post, 14 April 1868, Mrs Howard Paul took over the role when the Covent Garden production was sent on tour after the London run (and later played it in a revival in the West End). Barring objections, I propose to amend our text accordingly, if that's all right? – Tim riley talk 13:06, 30 January 2022 (UTC)
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I am afraid that the synopsis which was added yesterday is a copyright violation, and should be removed. It is clear that it is copied/pasted from the external link web page which was added with the same edit. Regards 81.83.137.228 ( talk) 17:39, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
It's apparently from Ganzl: Book of Musical Theatre (1988). Obviously in copyright. -- Klein zach 02:25, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
This is not to say that it shouldn't be copyedited for flow, etc. Note that a previous external link Description of the opera, including characters and plot synopsis (oldandsold.com) was merely a copy from that book. I also removed the Recordings section as it was completely empty apart from an external link to the opera-dis discography which is inappropriate. I've moved the link to the external links section. It can be moved back as an inline cite, once someone actually puts some content into a Recordings section. Voceditenore ( talk) 09:07, 18 June 2011 (UTC)
This section did not give a very good idea that the opera has been presented more or less continuously. I added some information about some productions, but I don't have any information about French productions. Can someone add some information about some of the major ones? Thanks! -- Ssilvers ( talk) 22:52, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
I think there were lots of French productions, but I don't speak French. Should we list these TV productions?:
This lists some upcoming productions: http://www.offenbachsociety.org.uk/forthcoming_events_country.htm
-- Ssilvers ( talk) 04:37, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
The public-domain source we are using says 300,000 bottles of wine. The Guide to Musical Theatre says 20,000. That's quite a difference. Is there a third independent source that can provide a number? I checked the French and German wikis but they don't give numbers. Softlavender ( talk) 02:50, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Here's the discography from the French article. Can anyone translate?:
-- Ssilvers ( talk) 04:54, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
In the Musical Numbers chart, which was seemingly imported from French Wiki, in Act 3 the numbering goes from 15b to 9(bis) ["bis" meaning encore; I forgot to translate that but someone can] to 16. This doesn't make sense. I can't find any place to confirm a fix but in the libretto there is indeed an Orchestral interlude/melodrama after 15a and 15b (the conspirators' songs) and then it proceeds as indicated in the chart. Is this a simple error we can fix ourselves? Softlavender ( talk) 08:05, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Now that we have added technical sections like musical numbers, we need to add two substantive sections: (i) Background: How did Offenbach get the idea for it, what was the history of its genesis and development for the stage? What is its place and importance in Offenbach's career? (ii) Reception: What was the critical and box office reception of the original productions and later productions. Also, as I said above, we need more production history, particularly with respect to French productions. Does the French wiki article have any information about these? Some of this info might be in the Holden and/or Lamb articles listed under "References", if anyone has access to those. All the best, -- Ssilvers ( talk) 15:45, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
"It is delicious, the first act, and an incredible fantasy of sparkling gaiety. This is the most ludicrous charge that could be dreaming of glory military, its plumes, its stripes and all its bells and whistles." Sarcey, 1867.
In a room redone and despite the length and other critics accuse of Figaro, the opera buffa was a great success. The first two acts are a real triumph, the third falls a little flat, Offenbach performs cuts from the second performance. Among other tunes, the "Chimes of my grandmother" - which will be retained in the version of Vienna - is removed.[1]
A censorship report dated April 5, seven days before the first manifest many scruples about the piece (the "ridiculous" and military power, as well as "scabrous situations"). This wass censorship, which had already imposed, for example, the name of Gerolstein, invented by Eugene Sue in The Mysteries of Paris, to give a resolutely imaginative plan.
All the crowned heads wanted to see Hortense Schneider, causing an exorbitant fee 2,000 francs a month [ref. desired] in the title role. April 24, Napoleon III to attend the performance,[1] before returning a few days later with the Empress. In early May, Mr. Adolphe Thiers came.[1] On the 15th, the Prince of Wales, son of Queen Victoria, in the chair No. 18 in the lodge balcony. June 1, Alexander II, Tsar of All Russia and the Grand Duke Vladimir. "Miss Schneider's legs seem to have had much effect on the prince Wladimir ... ," said Prosper Mérimée June 6. Later, you could see Bismarck forefront with Moltke and Marshal MacMahon. And even Ismail Pasha, viceroy of Egypt, who comes almost every night during his stay in Paris; the King of Bavaria; King of Portugal; and the King of Sweden.[Ref. desired]
Only the Emperor Franz Joseph of Austria was an exception by not going to "visit" the Grand Duchess during his visits to Paris. Jules Prével noted in Le Figaro: "If the Emperor of Austria has not honored her with his presence, it has twice been announced that he lacked the time, besides he had seen this attractive person in Vienna."[2]
-- Softlavender ( talk) 04:48, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
Additional recordings from the same source noted above the table:
In the Régine Crespin recording, Robert Massard is Boum, while in the Felicity Lott recording, François Le Roux is Boum. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 19:15, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Personally, I'd rather have the discography chart on the article's page. At ten albums, it takes up less room than the musical numbers chart does. I think it's important to have the chart handy and in the same place, so that readers can look at it without switching between pages. Especially since many of the recordings/performances were mentioned in the text, and readers will want to compare and contrast. Also, the character names and descriptions in the Roles chart and Plot summary help readers understand the discography chart. At less than 30,000 bytes, the article is in no way overlong, and I feel that having the chart on a seperate page is undue content forking. Anyway, that's my opinion. Softlavender ( talk) 02:24, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
[left] I have removed the Premiere Opera recording of the 2004 Phila production and substituted the Unique Opera Records LP as Voce suggests. I would support putting the chart back into the main article unless someone can write a really good summary about the key recordings. Softlavender is correct, above, that Wikipedia:Splitting does not support removing the information here. The article is not very long, and the chart is not that big (now only 9 productions). Plus, a couple of days ago, I put the chart into a more compact format with a slightly smaller size that I think made it fit well into the article. Someone reversed my edit, saying that he thought it made the info harder to see, but I still think it looked better and more compact. You can always type cont. + if you want to view it in a larger size. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 17:23, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
Should we add this link to the ELs?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjLQCgy0gEA This was posted to Youtube by the opera company. -- Ssilvers ( talk) 14:29, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
What about one of the Felicity Lott production? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1lQJ4Oc_VY or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBktv3cA-4Y&NR=1 -- Ssilvers ( talk) 14:36, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
Did Garanca record the score?: Here she sings one of the arias: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPHcW4MxcRo -- Ssilvers ( talk) 15:10, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 20:26, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
We say that Mrs Howard Paul played the Grand Duchess at the November 1867 British premiere at Covent Garden, citing an article by Andrew Lamb. One hesitates to contradict such a leading authority, but all the press reports of the production say that the role was played by Julia Matthews – including The Times, 19 November, p. 6, London Evening Standard, 19 November, p. 3, Morning Advertiser, 19 November, p. 3, The Era, 24 November, p. 11, and The Observer, 24 November, p. 3. According to The Liverpool Daily Post, 14 April 1868, Mrs Howard Paul took over the role when the Covent Garden production was sent on tour after the London run (and later played it in a revival in the West End). Barring objections, I propose to amend our text accordingly, if that's all right? – Tim riley talk 13:06, 30 January 2022 (UTC)