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Hi,
I've previously read the french wiki of Degrelle, and I've seen he didn't continue its studies after the two first years and didn't obtain a BA. More, I have nowhere seen that he had a doctorate in law, even if he began a cursus in law.
I think you have to verify this information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.189.67.117 ( talk) 07:06, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
Note: In reference to the phrase "...Degrelle was excommunicated, but the excommunication was later lifted, after Degrelle's confession, by the Catholic chaplain of the Walloon Assault Brigade": There are several online refenences to Degrelle's excommunication (see the Catholic Herald Archives for Oct 1 1943 at http://archive.catholicherald.co.uk/article/1st-october-1943/1/degrelle-excommunicated and the Google archive for the Milwaukee Journal newpaer of Nov 12, 1943 at http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1499&dat=19431112&id=y6kWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=BiMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3405,4999489) but I have a hard time understanding how a lowly Catholic battalion chaplain can overwrite the actions of a Bishop. - R Fitzgibbon — Preceding unsigned comment added by RFitzgibbon ( talk • contribs) 23:46, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
I looked it up, and it seems that the excommunication was lifted later, but not by a chaplain, as RFitzgibbon has correctly pointed out. Changing the article now accordingly. Bazuz ( talk) 12:54, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
There are four sources for the Ritterkreuzträger, but none is used by the article. One is enough. Which is more encyclopedic? -- H2O( talk) 19:46, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
Mostly decrufting -- preserving here by providing this link; please see individual edit summaries in the article's history. K.e.coffman ( talk) 05:49, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
I've removed a chunk of material that appeared to have its origin in a hagiographical piece on the Holocaust-denial website Institute for Historical Review. Such a website can never be used as a reliable source for this article. I've also added some "citation needed" tags, and removed the over-prominent quotation from his "open letter" to the pope. We can say that he wrote such a letter, but there is no need to quote prominently from it. DuncanHill ( talk) 15:56, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 15:38, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
@ K.e.coffman and Buidhe: Because of the historical link and geographic distance between Great Britain and Belgium, and prior experience with Belgium articles, I think we should adopt British English and convert what's there now into that dialect. – ♠Vami _IV†♠ 06:18, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
This ABC news article states: "«Si tuviese un hijo, me gustaría que fuese como usted», le dijo Adolf Hitler a León Degrelle en agosto de 1944, durante la entrega de la Cruz de Caballero con Hojas de Roble –Ritterkreutz–, un distintivo militar único en el III Reich." ABC is very reliable as a news outlet but it doesn't state where this claim comes from or what the support is besides Degrelle's own claim. Can we confirm this? ( t · c) buidhe 19:35, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
Now that the article has gone to GAN, I'm checking the licensing of the images.
Excellent work on this article. It and Rexist Party have been on my hitlist for years without, I am ashamed to say, anything really coming of it. I thought I would add some drive-by comments here, ahead of the GA process:
More to follow. Thanks! 13:22, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 14:37, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Kusma ( talk · contribs) 13:22, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
I hope to review this one over the weekend. — Kusma ( talk) 13:22, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
Good Article review progress box
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At first glance a well-referenced and very nice article about a not so nice person.
I will make detailed comments on every section here, looking at the lead last (in case any changes in the body necessitate changes in the lead).
Several years after his failurewhen? The following makes it look like it was before 1927, which is not several years after 1925.
Degrelle had become interested in the perceived oppression of Mexican Catholics which led to the Cristero War which broke out in 1926.Tense? ...which had led to the 1926 outbreak of the Cristero War?
doctorat de troisième cycledoesn't explain what this meant in Belgium in the 1920s.
into the a political party termed Rex or the Rexist Partyapart from the extra word, better to link Rexist Party instead of what you do right now.
{{
main|Rexist Party}}
?
In Belgium, Degrelle formed alliances with francophone groups, then met Italian fascists and received subsidies from themare these connected?
the Nazi Party which had recently come to power in Germanythat seems incorrect, the Nazis came to power in 1933.
In October, Degrelle returned to Belgiumfrom where? As far as we know, he was in Belgium for the entire paragraph.
assistance of Otto Abetzwas Abetz assisting Daye in his search or Degrelle in his life in Carcassonne? If you split the sentence you can probably clarify it. What was Abetz ambassador of at the time? You mention later that he became ambassador to France.
and convince him"and to convince him", "and tried to convince him" would be clearer.
They agreed, though only so as to not alienate Abetz, and signed an agreementthis is a bit confusing. What did they agree on before signing the agreement? Did they really agree or just pretend to agree?
president of the Belgian Socialist PartyThe Belgian Socialist Party was founded in 1945
Neither Degrelle nor those he met with at this time could come to an agreementshouldn't they come to an agreement with each other?
By the end of 1940is last sentence of previous paragraph and first sentence of this one.
UndeterredIs this the best word?
began subsidizing, appointed members to civil office, and allowed it to freely organize.does this lack a Rex?
seek Belgians enlistment"seek Belgians enlisting" or perhaps "seek Belgian enlistment"?
Likely because it had been ordered toby Berlin?
Walloons were considered an inferior people to the Flemishwho did this considering? Possibly better "The Nazis considered Walloons to be inferior to the Flemish" or "Hitler considered" or "Abetz considered" or ...
Over the rest of 1942, the Legion was reduced to 150 men, and Degrelle was rapidly promotedDid the others die? Leave? The sentence almost implies that the reduction in numbers caused Degrelle's promotion, is that intended? It is perhaps better to split the sentence, as the promotion is more connected to what comes after.
the only leading Nazi or collaborator to escape to safetywell, that needs some qualification. Until 1960, this honour probably belonged to Adolf Eichmann (but he didn't live openly). Klaus Barbie is also a contender, or Josef Mengele. Unrepentant free Nazis included various Wehrmacht officers like Otto Ernst Remer. Would you consider Wernher von Braun as a leading Nazi? This section could also do with slightly more precise timings than "after the war".
In August, Jewish community leaders Max Mazín and Alberto Benasuly introduced the Catalan lawyer Jorge Trías Sagnier to Violeta Friedman, a Romanian-born survivor of Auschwitzand
Considering the case, Trías realizedwhich case? There's some context and introduction missing. Why do we need these Jewish community leaders? Did Violeta Friedman sue Degrelle?
I'll leave you with these comments for now and will come back for the lead and perhaps a second pass through. Overall a nice and well-researched article, I've learned quite a bit... — Kusma ( talk) 21:12, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
Rex contested the 1936 Belgian general electionIt isn't obvious that "Rex" and "the Rexist party" are the same thing. You could add (Rex) after the first mention of the Rexist party to fix this.
gained him the status of being the model for foreign collaboratorssimplify. "turned him into a model for foreign collaborators" or something.
then to Spain, where he crash landed in May 1945maybe add "by plane" to clarify.
Degrelle was stripped of his citizenshipthe lead makes it sound like this was in 1944, but the body says in 1945.
Bouillon, in the province of Luxembourg andeither drop the comma or add one after Luxembourg.
German authorities, including Himmler, who Degrelle wrote to request the retaliatory killing of 100 Belgian civilians,[127] ignored Degrellewhich should be simplified: Degrelle wrote to Himmler to request ... The request was ignored by the German authorities, but Rexists ...
fleeing then-ongoing Liberation of Belgiumfleeing the? fleeing from the?
given control of any Belgian territoryhmm, seems the control wasn't there to give? "promised control"?
I think that's all I have. — Kusma ( talk) 21:45, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
According to Muere Teodulfo Lagunero, el “millonario rojo” que trajo a Carrillo de incógnito y con peluca :
Can you provide a better reference to change the article to something like:
? -- Error ( talk) 09:21, 23 June 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Léon Degrelle article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | Léon Degrelle is a former featured article candidate. Please view the links under Article milestones below to see why the nomination failed. For older candidates, please check the archive. | |||||||||||||||
![]() | Léon Degrelle has been listed as one of the Warfare good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
Current status: Former featured article candidate, current good article |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article was created or improved during WikiProject Europe's " European 10,000 Challenge", which started on November 1, 2016, and is ongoing. You can help out! |
|
|
Hi,
I've previously read the french wiki of Degrelle, and I've seen he didn't continue its studies after the two first years and didn't obtain a BA. More, I have nowhere seen that he had a doctorate in law, even if he began a cursus in law.
I think you have to verify this information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.189.67.117 ( talk) 07:06, 30 July 2012 (UTC)
Note: In reference to the phrase "...Degrelle was excommunicated, but the excommunication was later lifted, after Degrelle's confession, by the Catholic chaplain of the Walloon Assault Brigade": There are several online refenences to Degrelle's excommunication (see the Catholic Herald Archives for Oct 1 1943 at http://archive.catholicherald.co.uk/article/1st-october-1943/1/degrelle-excommunicated and the Google archive for the Milwaukee Journal newpaer of Nov 12, 1943 at http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1499&dat=19431112&id=y6kWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=BiMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=3405,4999489) but I have a hard time understanding how a lowly Catholic battalion chaplain can overwrite the actions of a Bishop. - R Fitzgibbon — Preceding unsigned comment added by RFitzgibbon ( talk • contribs) 23:46, 19 September 2012 (UTC)
I looked it up, and it seems that the excommunication was lifted later, but not by a chaplain, as RFitzgibbon has correctly pointed out. Changing the article now accordingly. Bazuz ( talk) 12:54, 29 November 2012 (UTC)
There are four sources for the Ritterkreuzträger, but none is used by the article. One is enough. Which is more encyclopedic? -- H2O( talk) 19:46, 3 November 2013 (UTC)
Mostly decrufting -- preserving here by providing this link; please see individual edit summaries in the article's history. K.e.coffman ( talk) 05:49, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
I've removed a chunk of material that appeared to have its origin in a hagiographical piece on the Holocaust-denial website Institute for Historical Review. Such a website can never be used as a reliable source for this article. I've also added some "citation needed" tags, and removed the over-prominent quotation from his "open letter" to the pope. We can say that he wrote such a letter, but there is no need to quote prominently from it. DuncanHill ( talk) 15:56, 27 June 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 15:38, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
@ K.e.coffman and Buidhe: Because of the historical link and geographic distance between Great Britain and Belgium, and prior experience with Belgium articles, I think we should adopt British English and convert what's there now into that dialect. – ♠Vami _IV†♠ 06:18, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
This ABC news article states: "«Si tuviese un hijo, me gustaría que fuese como usted», le dijo Adolf Hitler a León Degrelle en agosto de 1944, durante la entrega de la Cruz de Caballero con Hojas de Roble –Ritterkreutz–, un distintivo militar único en el III Reich." ABC is very reliable as a news outlet but it doesn't state where this claim comes from or what the support is besides Degrelle's own claim. Can we confirm this? ( t · c) buidhe 19:35, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
Now that the article has gone to GAN, I'm checking the licensing of the images.
Excellent work on this article. It and Rexist Party have been on my hitlist for years without, I am ashamed to say, anything really coming of it. I thought I would add some drive-by comments here, ahead of the GA process:
More to follow. Thanks! 13:22, 24 September 2021 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 14:37, 26 September 2021 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Kusma ( talk · contribs) 13:22, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
I hope to review this one over the weekend. — Kusma ( talk) 13:22, 8 October 2021 (UTC)
Good Article review progress box
|
At first glance a well-referenced and very nice article about a not so nice person.
I will make detailed comments on every section here, looking at the lead last (in case any changes in the body necessitate changes in the lead).
Several years after his failurewhen? The following makes it look like it was before 1927, which is not several years after 1925.
Degrelle had become interested in the perceived oppression of Mexican Catholics which led to the Cristero War which broke out in 1926.Tense? ...which had led to the 1926 outbreak of the Cristero War?
doctorat de troisième cycledoesn't explain what this meant in Belgium in the 1920s.
into the a political party termed Rex or the Rexist Partyapart from the extra word, better to link Rexist Party instead of what you do right now.
{{
main|Rexist Party}}
?
In Belgium, Degrelle formed alliances with francophone groups, then met Italian fascists and received subsidies from themare these connected?
the Nazi Party which had recently come to power in Germanythat seems incorrect, the Nazis came to power in 1933.
In October, Degrelle returned to Belgiumfrom where? As far as we know, he was in Belgium for the entire paragraph.
assistance of Otto Abetzwas Abetz assisting Daye in his search or Degrelle in his life in Carcassonne? If you split the sentence you can probably clarify it. What was Abetz ambassador of at the time? You mention later that he became ambassador to France.
and convince him"and to convince him", "and tried to convince him" would be clearer.
They agreed, though only so as to not alienate Abetz, and signed an agreementthis is a bit confusing. What did they agree on before signing the agreement? Did they really agree or just pretend to agree?
president of the Belgian Socialist PartyThe Belgian Socialist Party was founded in 1945
Neither Degrelle nor those he met with at this time could come to an agreementshouldn't they come to an agreement with each other?
By the end of 1940is last sentence of previous paragraph and first sentence of this one.
UndeterredIs this the best word?
began subsidizing, appointed members to civil office, and allowed it to freely organize.does this lack a Rex?
seek Belgians enlistment"seek Belgians enlisting" or perhaps "seek Belgian enlistment"?
Likely because it had been ordered toby Berlin?
Walloons were considered an inferior people to the Flemishwho did this considering? Possibly better "The Nazis considered Walloons to be inferior to the Flemish" or "Hitler considered" or "Abetz considered" or ...
Over the rest of 1942, the Legion was reduced to 150 men, and Degrelle was rapidly promotedDid the others die? Leave? The sentence almost implies that the reduction in numbers caused Degrelle's promotion, is that intended? It is perhaps better to split the sentence, as the promotion is more connected to what comes after.
the only leading Nazi or collaborator to escape to safetywell, that needs some qualification. Until 1960, this honour probably belonged to Adolf Eichmann (but he didn't live openly). Klaus Barbie is also a contender, or Josef Mengele. Unrepentant free Nazis included various Wehrmacht officers like Otto Ernst Remer. Would you consider Wernher von Braun as a leading Nazi? This section could also do with slightly more precise timings than "after the war".
In August, Jewish community leaders Max Mazín and Alberto Benasuly introduced the Catalan lawyer Jorge Trías Sagnier to Violeta Friedman, a Romanian-born survivor of Auschwitzand
Considering the case, Trías realizedwhich case? There's some context and introduction missing. Why do we need these Jewish community leaders? Did Violeta Friedman sue Degrelle?
I'll leave you with these comments for now and will come back for the lead and perhaps a second pass through. Overall a nice and well-researched article, I've learned quite a bit... — Kusma ( talk) 21:12, 9 October 2021 (UTC)
Rex contested the 1936 Belgian general electionIt isn't obvious that "Rex" and "the Rexist party" are the same thing. You could add (Rex) after the first mention of the Rexist party to fix this.
gained him the status of being the model for foreign collaboratorssimplify. "turned him into a model for foreign collaborators" or something.
then to Spain, where he crash landed in May 1945maybe add "by plane" to clarify.
Degrelle was stripped of his citizenshipthe lead makes it sound like this was in 1944, but the body says in 1945.
Bouillon, in the province of Luxembourg andeither drop the comma or add one after Luxembourg.
German authorities, including Himmler, who Degrelle wrote to request the retaliatory killing of 100 Belgian civilians,[127] ignored Degrellewhich should be simplified: Degrelle wrote to Himmler to request ... The request was ignored by the German authorities, but Rexists ...
fleeing then-ongoing Liberation of Belgiumfleeing the? fleeing from the?
given control of any Belgian territoryhmm, seems the control wasn't there to give? "promised control"?
I think that's all I have. — Kusma ( talk) 21:45, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
According to Muere Teodulfo Lagunero, el “millonario rojo” que trajo a Carrillo de incógnito y con peluca :
Can you provide a better reference to change the article to something like:
? -- Error ( talk) 09:21, 23 June 2022 (UTC)