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Hi. Don't have the link with me, but I did notice there's a youtube piece of his talk. Good luck. HG 19:39, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
How relevent is his childhood to the article and his notability? It seems rather out of place.
Rklawton 22:09, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Equinox137, The news media reports specify that he was arrested without a warrant, they do this because the police arresting him had no warrant to arrest him, or search warrant. He was arrested in Canada, by Canadian officers, who had no warrant as would be expected in Canada. That there may have been a warrant for his arrest in the US, which *is* another jurisdiction, is besides the point and does nothing to contradict the entirely factual statement that he "was arrested without warrant". Insisting that the supposed existence of a US warrant meant that he was not arrested without a warrant in Canada is like me insisting that my boot laces are not untied, when I'm wearing unlaced sneakers but, back at home my boots are laced up in the closet. The news articles specify that he was arrested without warrant, and you counter with a rhetorical argument why those sources must be wrong, the sources trump your original research. Pete.Hurd 02:15, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
The sentence that reads "but released when Citizenship and Immigration Canada informed the police they had no legal basis for arresting him." appears to be sourced only by this blog entry, and seems to be based on the events described by this Member of Parliament's letter, which contradicts the statement by saying it was a CBSA, not CIC, that ordered him released.
"Mr. Atamanenko’s office made some phone calls to try and figure out why Mr. Snyder had been arrested for immigration reasons if he was here legally. After six hours of being detained, a Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) agent from Vancouver, who had learned that Mr. Snyder had been detained, called the Nelson City Police and had him released. At the time, Mr. Snyder was told by this agent that the US military had requested his arrest and deportation."
Pete.Hurd 06:15, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Speaking of round-about sources: a bunch of articles from the Nelson Daily News quoting Nelson City police Chief Dan Maluta covered in this blog posting here throw considerable doubt on the claim that NCP were acting at the behest of CBSA. I think this is important, because the notability of this article is based in large part on the political bru-ha-ha in Canada over the apparent actions of NCP at the behest of the US military (which were then countermanded by officials at CBSA and CIC when they became aware). The article presents the other version --the one implied, but not actually stated, by Maluta-- that CBSA ordered NCP to arrest, as fact. The sources are not available on-line via the Nelson Daily News, but the excerpts on the blog and the Alex Atamanenko letter make clear that much of the issue in Canada is this unresolved concern. Pete.Hurd 06:53, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Mr. Hurd, let's make this simple, either we leave the "without warrant" remark removed or we put a accuracy dispute tag on the article. Please stop making this article your personal political soapbox. It has been clearly shown to you that a valid arrest warrant was issued on PFC Kyle Snyder, regardless of what the left-wing press in Canada says. Had he been anywhere on American soil, Snyder would have been instantly returned to military custody if located on so much as a traffic stop. Canada obviously has the discretion to return him, but an arrest warrant existed and still exists. Equinox137 02:49, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
The police went to this house to arrest a man. In Canada you need a Feeny warrant to do that. Many reliable sources report that they did not, and that the Chief of Police stated that they did not. Not one source has questioned this, that they had no Feeny warrant not in dispute. When Rklawton this edit (edit summary "later sources make it clear they were officers and they had a warrent. When citing sources, it's important to use up to date sources and not the early, sensational, and least reliable sources") he either is mistaken, or he means something else. A reasonable candidate for the something else is that he means that the officers were enforcing a detention order on behalf of the Canada Border Services Agency (per Maluta's original statement, "We got an order for detention which was our authority to hold that subject until he was dealt with by CBSA" quoted in Nelson Daily News. Nelson, B.C.: Feb 28, 2007, his backing down from that claim is the subject of the Nelson Daily News. Nelson, B.C.: Mar 2, 2007) piece. That the Nelson Police were ordered to release him by a Citizenship and Immigration Canada official because there were no legal grounds for holding, him argues against there ever having been such an order to detain That was released following an interview with Canada Border Services Agency suggests that they did not order his detention. That CBSA said that Nelson Police contacted then, not the other way around, and the fact that they have never said they issued an order to detain suggests that they didn't. Subsequent press coverage uses sentences like "According to a Canadian Press report, the order came from the Canadian Border Services Agency" eg and are clearly based on reports of the Chiefs initial claim, and an unwillingness to endorce the statement as fact. If there had been a detention order from CBSA there would not be an Abbotsford Police investigation into the Nelson Police's actions in this matter, or calls for a Parliamentary inquiry [1]. So, no source contests that Nelson Police lacked the required warrant to arrest, and no source has established that there ever was an order to detain, but many reliable sources contest that there was. Put a disputed tag on the article if you want, but it's pretty damn clear: there was no arrest warrant. Pete.Hurd 05:23, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
Sovereignty concerns would be significant if they were expressed by a member of parliament. However, they weren't. They were expressed by a representative of a fringe group. Without this qualification, the sentence I removed regarding sovereignty was very misleading. What might be found significant with this biography is:
Indeed, reorganizing the article along those lines might help make it clearer to the reader how Synder is notable (i.e., by the impact he is having). Without this, he's just another deserter who got some press. Rklawton 14:58, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
I was in the 94th at the same time that Kyle was. He was in asphalt platoon prior to the deployment. I recall him wanting to be deployed, because he was not originally going to because he was on medication. I also recall telling him that it was a bad idea and that he should stay on Rear D, because deployment sucked. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.20.173.123 ( talk) 04:23, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Article reassessed and graded as start class. -- dashiellx ( talk) 18:40, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
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My perception is that there is more to this story. If reliable sources have followed his fate, there would be an opportunity to make this article useful. Never having heard of Snyder before, the article comes across as a very damp squib.-- Quisqualis ( talk) 02:08, 21 April 2023 (UTC)
This article was nominated for deletion on May 9, 2007. The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
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Hi. Don't have the link with me, but I did notice there's a youtube piece of his talk. Good luck. HG 19:39, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
How relevent is his childhood to the article and his notability? It seems rather out of place.
Rklawton 22:09, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Equinox137, The news media reports specify that he was arrested without a warrant, they do this because the police arresting him had no warrant to arrest him, or search warrant. He was arrested in Canada, by Canadian officers, who had no warrant as would be expected in Canada. That there may have been a warrant for his arrest in the US, which *is* another jurisdiction, is besides the point and does nothing to contradict the entirely factual statement that he "was arrested without warrant". Insisting that the supposed existence of a US warrant meant that he was not arrested without a warrant in Canada is like me insisting that my boot laces are not untied, when I'm wearing unlaced sneakers but, back at home my boots are laced up in the closet. The news articles specify that he was arrested without warrant, and you counter with a rhetorical argument why those sources must be wrong, the sources trump your original research. Pete.Hurd 02:15, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
The sentence that reads "but released when Citizenship and Immigration Canada informed the police they had no legal basis for arresting him." appears to be sourced only by this blog entry, and seems to be based on the events described by this Member of Parliament's letter, which contradicts the statement by saying it was a CBSA, not CIC, that ordered him released.
"Mr. Atamanenko’s office made some phone calls to try and figure out why Mr. Snyder had been arrested for immigration reasons if he was here legally. After six hours of being detained, a Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) agent from Vancouver, who had learned that Mr. Snyder had been detained, called the Nelson City Police and had him released. At the time, Mr. Snyder was told by this agent that the US military had requested his arrest and deportation."
Pete.Hurd 06:15, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Speaking of round-about sources: a bunch of articles from the Nelson Daily News quoting Nelson City police Chief Dan Maluta covered in this blog posting here throw considerable doubt on the claim that NCP were acting at the behest of CBSA. I think this is important, because the notability of this article is based in large part on the political bru-ha-ha in Canada over the apparent actions of NCP at the behest of the US military (which were then countermanded by officials at CBSA and CIC when they became aware). The article presents the other version --the one implied, but not actually stated, by Maluta-- that CBSA ordered NCP to arrest, as fact. The sources are not available on-line via the Nelson Daily News, but the excerpts on the blog and the Alex Atamanenko letter make clear that much of the issue in Canada is this unresolved concern. Pete.Hurd 06:53, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Mr. Hurd, let's make this simple, either we leave the "without warrant" remark removed or we put a accuracy dispute tag on the article. Please stop making this article your personal political soapbox. It has been clearly shown to you that a valid arrest warrant was issued on PFC Kyle Snyder, regardless of what the left-wing press in Canada says. Had he been anywhere on American soil, Snyder would have been instantly returned to military custody if located on so much as a traffic stop. Canada obviously has the discretion to return him, but an arrest warrant existed and still exists. Equinox137 02:49, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
The police went to this house to arrest a man. In Canada you need a Feeny warrant to do that. Many reliable sources report that they did not, and that the Chief of Police stated that they did not. Not one source has questioned this, that they had no Feeny warrant not in dispute. When Rklawton this edit (edit summary "later sources make it clear they were officers and they had a warrent. When citing sources, it's important to use up to date sources and not the early, sensational, and least reliable sources") he either is mistaken, or he means something else. A reasonable candidate for the something else is that he means that the officers were enforcing a detention order on behalf of the Canada Border Services Agency (per Maluta's original statement, "We got an order for detention which was our authority to hold that subject until he was dealt with by CBSA" quoted in Nelson Daily News. Nelson, B.C.: Feb 28, 2007, his backing down from that claim is the subject of the Nelson Daily News. Nelson, B.C.: Mar 2, 2007) piece. That the Nelson Police were ordered to release him by a Citizenship and Immigration Canada official because there were no legal grounds for holding, him argues against there ever having been such an order to detain That was released following an interview with Canada Border Services Agency suggests that they did not order his detention. That CBSA said that Nelson Police contacted then, not the other way around, and the fact that they have never said they issued an order to detain suggests that they didn't. Subsequent press coverage uses sentences like "According to a Canadian Press report, the order came from the Canadian Border Services Agency" eg and are clearly based on reports of the Chiefs initial claim, and an unwillingness to endorce the statement as fact. If there had been a detention order from CBSA there would not be an Abbotsford Police investigation into the Nelson Police's actions in this matter, or calls for a Parliamentary inquiry [1]. So, no source contests that Nelson Police lacked the required warrant to arrest, and no source has established that there ever was an order to detain, but many reliable sources contest that there was. Put a disputed tag on the article if you want, but it's pretty damn clear: there was no arrest warrant. Pete.Hurd 05:23, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
Sovereignty concerns would be significant if they were expressed by a member of parliament. However, they weren't. They were expressed by a representative of a fringe group. Without this qualification, the sentence I removed regarding sovereignty was very misleading. What might be found significant with this biography is:
Indeed, reorganizing the article along those lines might help make it clearer to the reader how Synder is notable (i.e., by the impact he is having). Without this, he's just another deserter who got some press. Rklawton 14:58, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
I was in the 94th at the same time that Kyle was. He was in asphalt platoon prior to the deployment. I recall him wanting to be deployed, because he was not originally going to because he was on medication. I also recall telling him that it was a bad idea and that he should stay on Rear D, because deployment sucked. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.20.173.123 ( talk) 04:23, 28 April 2008 (UTC)
Article reassessed and graded as start class. -- dashiellx ( talk) 18:40, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
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My perception is that there is more to this story. If reliable sources have followed his fate, there would be an opportunity to make this article useful. Never having heard of Snyder before, the article comes across as a very damp squib.-- Quisqualis ( talk) 02:08, 21 April 2023 (UTC)