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I put them back as I don't feel one editor should be able to just take them down based on personal feelings but, perhaps a discussion should be started. Do others have any preference or input (or suggestions or comments or etc..)?
I wouldn't mind seeing a photo of Blake Hood as Kyle replace the one of Garrett Ryan, however. He is (perhaps arguably) the most notable in the role and there was fan upset with his dismissal. Cebr1979 ( talk) 03:16, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
The image of Ryan is useless. He portrayed the role for less than one and a half years. There are rarely child actor images anymore as additional images, as they usually aren't notable enough. For instance Samantha Bailey portrayed Summer Newman for nearly 3 years and had more central stories than Ryan, but there is no image there. If he were notable enough to warrant an image, then Hood should as well (Although it would just be clutter, none of these actors have really gained any notability in the role and the recasting seems to be a frequent occurrence). He was the first adult to play the role and had bigger storylines. Just saying. It's very unbalanced. — Ar re 01:17, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
The character is NOT named Kyle Jenkins and has not been called that since he was a child on the show. The characters on the show call him "Kyle Abbott," the show's credits and official website lists him as "Kyle Abbott." A person who just recently started watching the show would not know him as "Kyle Jenkins." There is no legitimate reason why the character's Wikipedia page should remain "Kyle Jenkins." -- MrKing84 ( talk) 18:48, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
Just weighing in. I was just looking through the Y&R credits (March 6, 2013 for example) where Kyle was credited as "Jenkins", so he was credited as that less than 3 years ago. During both Garrett Ryan and Blake Hood's time in the role, he was credited as Kyle Jenkins. It was only changed to Abbott when Hartley Sawyer played the role (and that wasn't for long). The current Kyle actor has been on the show less than 3 months. So, I think we should definitely leave it as "Kyle Jenkins" for a while. Simply for the fact that he hasn't been known as Kyle Abbott long enough in comparison. Also, it's easier to access. JMO. — Ar re 10:45, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
I'm just gonna jump back into this conversation for a moment to say that I don't think the proper understanding of what a "common name" actually is is being displayed here. A "common name" is what the world at large commonly believes a person's/character's/thing's/etc... name to be. If the show were to hire Nicholas Cage to play the Easter Bunny and he remained in the role for the next 400 years... even if the show were to credit the character as "The Bunny of Easter" for that entire time... the character's common name would still be "The Easter Bunny" because that's what the world at large would commonly believe his name to be. All of this talk about Garrett Ryan and 2012 and youtube links is irrelevant. The world at large (or, the ones who actually know who this character is anyways) refers to the character as "Kyle Abbott." We know that because there are multiple sources dating back for multiple years showing us that. This character's common name IS Kyle Abbott. Cebr1979 ( talk) 02:07, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
Moved as proposed. Consensus is close, but favors the move, as does the preference for giving greater weight to more recent sources. bd2412 T 18:18, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
Kyle Jenkins → Kyle Abbott (The Young and the Restless) – This The Young and the Restless character as a child was known as "Kyle Jenkins" before 2012. But since 2012 after the character was aged to become an adult, the character has been known as "Kyle Abbott" The character has been commonly known as Kyle Abbott for the better part of 3 years now and multiple websites credit the character as Kyle Abbott, including the TV show's official webpage at CBS.com. Which has listed the character as "Kyle Abbott" since at least June of 2012. The show's credits at the end of the show has credited the character as "Kyle Abbott" since as far back as 2013, and the characters on the show (including the character himself) refers to him as "Kyle Abbott" and has been commonly known by that name since 2012. As the WP:COMMONNAME policy states "If the name of a person, group, object, or other article topic changes, then more weight should be given to the name used in reliable sources published after the name change than in those before the change." As I have previously stated, multiple reliable sources (like the show's own credits and the official webpage) list the character as "Kyle Abbott." Also here on Soap Opera Digest's website back in March of 2013. That is why the name of the page should be updated. Also new viewers of the TV show would not know the character as "Kyle Jenkins" but would know him as "Kyle Abbott," and there is nothing to indicate that the character's name will revert back to "Kyle Jenkins" since that Abbott family has been a prominent family on the show for 35 years now. --Relisted. George Ho ( talk) 21:55, 4 June 2015 (UTC) MrKing84 ( talk) 06:57, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's policy on article titles.I don't know of any reliable sources that has commonly referred to the character as just "Kyle Jenkins" since the character was aged into adulthood in 2012. Nobody in this discussion opposing this name change has shown any evidence that the character has been commonly called and commonly known as "Kyle Jenkins" since June of 2012. Really the only source that still refers to the character as "Kyle Jenkins" is this Wikipedia page.
Also to address the Abby Carlton/Abby Newman argument. The character of Abby for most of the last 15 years (since the character's creation) has been a constant character on the show, unlike Kyle who was not seen and barely even mentioned on the show from 2004-2010. The character of Kyle for a brief period of time as a baby was the sole custody of his father Jack Abbott (back in 2003-04), who changed the child's full name to "Kyle Jenkins Abbott." Not long after that the character of Kyle would as a baby leave storyline of the show with his mother in 2004. And with the changes in head writers and executive producers on the show between 2004 and 2010, the character of Kyle and the knowledge in continuity of his surname was lost in the scuffle of writer changes over the years. So by 2010 when the character returned, it was understandable that the head writer of Y&R at that time would not know (or care) that an entirely different writing team changed Kyle's surname six years earlier. So the argument that he was commonly known as "Kyle Jenkins" even as a child before 2010 is not entirely true.
The character of Kyle didn't even have a Wikipedia page of his own until 2012. Which was created my Livelikemusic, who is the main opponent of this name change. This "Kyle Jenkins" Wikipedia page was created on August 3, 2012. That was after actor Blake Hood had already started playing to role of Kyle as an adult. It was also after Y&R's official webpage on CBS.com listed the character as "Kyle Abbott" not "Kyle Jenkins." So this Kyle Jenkins Wikipedia page was created after the most reliable source on the internet credited the character as "Kyle Abbott." Also before this page was created, Wikipedia itself listed the character as "Kyle Jenkins Abbott" on the List of The Young and the Restless characters page. In fact the character of Kyle was first listed on that Wikipedia page on March 20, 2011 as "Kyle Jenkins Abbott." Through all the edits on that page between March of 2011 and this page's creation in August of 2012, no editor disputed that the character's last name was Abbott. Only one editor has continuously argued that his name is solely "Kyle Jenkins." That editor just also happens to be the creator of this page and the one still saying the character's surname is Jenkins, when every other reliable source lists the character's name as either "Kyle Jenkins Abbott" (for example Wikipedia itself as far back as March of 2011) or "Kyle Abbott" (Y&R's official webpage on CBS.com as far back as June of 2012). -- MrKing84 ( talk) 03:06, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
With only the 4 of us having entered this conversation (and with 2 of us supporting and 2 opposing), we're effectively at a stalemate (plus, it's been over a week since we've even discussed it). In the interest of "putting the matter to rest" (at least for now), I will change to being opposed. Sorry, MrKing84, I do agree with you, but... the four of us are all set in our ways and none of us are going to change our minds so we'll effectively just be going around in circles until (at least) a 5th editor joins in. I've added this to my watch list, when/if that happens, we can all take it up again then. Cheers! Cebr1979 ( talk) 00:16, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
I propose moving the page for the TV character Kyle Jenkins to Kyle Abbott (The Young and the Restless). Discussion on the talk page found here has stalled. Do you support this move? MrKing84 ( talk) 02:09, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
Although daytime dramas are occasionally repeated (primarily on a specialized venue, such as Soapnet), such series basically exist in the here-and-now. If, as of this writing, the program's credits list this character's name as "Kyle Abbott", then the main title header of the article should be Kyle Abbott (The Young and the Restless). A compromise solution would be to indicate the header as Kyle Jenkins Abbott, but some may not agree, because the credits do not use the full name, "Kyle Jenkins Abbott". Another, admittedly extreme, compromise solution would be to treat this fictional character as two connected separate entities, with two linked articles, one for his period as "Kyle Jenkins" and the other for his current period as "Kyle Abbott". There are likely sufficient storylines for both articles. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 16:40, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
This is a duplicate of an ongoing request. I'm closing this. George Ho ( talk) 23:27, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||
|
I put them back as I don't feel one editor should be able to just take them down based on personal feelings but, perhaps a discussion should be started. Do others have any preference or input (or suggestions or comments or etc..)?
I wouldn't mind seeing a photo of Blake Hood as Kyle replace the one of Garrett Ryan, however. He is (perhaps arguably) the most notable in the role and there was fan upset with his dismissal. Cebr1979 ( talk) 03:16, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
The image of Ryan is useless. He portrayed the role for less than one and a half years. There are rarely child actor images anymore as additional images, as they usually aren't notable enough. For instance Samantha Bailey portrayed Summer Newman for nearly 3 years and had more central stories than Ryan, but there is no image there. If he were notable enough to warrant an image, then Hood should as well (Although it would just be clutter, none of these actors have really gained any notability in the role and the recasting seems to be a frequent occurrence). He was the first adult to play the role and had bigger storylines. Just saying. It's very unbalanced. — Ar re 01:17, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
The character is NOT named Kyle Jenkins and has not been called that since he was a child on the show. The characters on the show call him "Kyle Abbott," the show's credits and official website lists him as "Kyle Abbott." A person who just recently started watching the show would not know him as "Kyle Jenkins." There is no legitimate reason why the character's Wikipedia page should remain "Kyle Jenkins." -- MrKing84 ( talk) 18:48, 23 May 2015 (UTC)
Just weighing in. I was just looking through the Y&R credits (March 6, 2013 for example) where Kyle was credited as "Jenkins", so he was credited as that less than 3 years ago. During both Garrett Ryan and Blake Hood's time in the role, he was credited as Kyle Jenkins. It was only changed to Abbott when Hartley Sawyer played the role (and that wasn't for long). The current Kyle actor has been on the show less than 3 months. So, I think we should definitely leave it as "Kyle Jenkins" for a while. Simply for the fact that he hasn't been known as Kyle Abbott long enough in comparison. Also, it's easier to access. JMO. — Ar re 10:45, 25 May 2015 (UTC)
I'm just gonna jump back into this conversation for a moment to say that I don't think the proper understanding of what a "common name" actually is is being displayed here. A "common name" is what the world at large commonly believes a person's/character's/thing's/etc... name to be. If the show were to hire Nicholas Cage to play the Easter Bunny and he remained in the role for the next 400 years... even if the show were to credit the character as "The Bunny of Easter" for that entire time... the character's common name would still be "The Easter Bunny" because that's what the world at large would commonly believe his name to be. All of this talk about Garrett Ryan and 2012 and youtube links is irrelevant. The world at large (or, the ones who actually know who this character is anyways) refers to the character as "Kyle Abbott." We know that because there are multiple sources dating back for multiple years showing us that. This character's common name IS Kyle Abbott. Cebr1979 ( talk) 02:07, 26 May 2015 (UTC)
Moved as proposed. Consensus is close, but favors the move, as does the preference for giving greater weight to more recent sources. bd2412 T 18:18, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
Kyle Jenkins → Kyle Abbott (The Young and the Restless) – This The Young and the Restless character as a child was known as "Kyle Jenkins" before 2012. But since 2012 after the character was aged to become an adult, the character has been known as "Kyle Abbott" The character has been commonly known as Kyle Abbott for the better part of 3 years now and multiple websites credit the character as Kyle Abbott, including the TV show's official webpage at CBS.com. Which has listed the character as "Kyle Abbott" since at least June of 2012. The show's credits at the end of the show has credited the character as "Kyle Abbott" since as far back as 2013, and the characters on the show (including the character himself) refers to him as "Kyle Abbott" and has been commonly known by that name since 2012. As the WP:COMMONNAME policy states "If the name of a person, group, object, or other article topic changes, then more weight should be given to the name used in reliable sources published after the name change than in those before the change." As I have previously stated, multiple reliable sources (like the show's own credits and the official webpage) list the character as "Kyle Abbott." Also here on Soap Opera Digest's website back in March of 2013. That is why the name of the page should be updated. Also new viewers of the TV show would not know the character as "Kyle Jenkins" but would know him as "Kyle Abbott," and there is nothing to indicate that the character's name will revert back to "Kyle Jenkins" since that Abbott family has been a prominent family on the show for 35 years now. --Relisted. George Ho ( talk) 21:55, 4 June 2015 (UTC) MrKing84 ( talk) 06:57, 28 May 2015 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's policy on article titles.I don't know of any reliable sources that has commonly referred to the character as just "Kyle Jenkins" since the character was aged into adulthood in 2012. Nobody in this discussion opposing this name change has shown any evidence that the character has been commonly called and commonly known as "Kyle Jenkins" since June of 2012. Really the only source that still refers to the character as "Kyle Jenkins" is this Wikipedia page.
Also to address the Abby Carlton/Abby Newman argument. The character of Abby for most of the last 15 years (since the character's creation) has been a constant character on the show, unlike Kyle who was not seen and barely even mentioned on the show from 2004-2010. The character of Kyle for a brief period of time as a baby was the sole custody of his father Jack Abbott (back in 2003-04), who changed the child's full name to "Kyle Jenkins Abbott." Not long after that the character of Kyle would as a baby leave storyline of the show with his mother in 2004. And with the changes in head writers and executive producers on the show between 2004 and 2010, the character of Kyle and the knowledge in continuity of his surname was lost in the scuffle of writer changes over the years. So by 2010 when the character returned, it was understandable that the head writer of Y&R at that time would not know (or care) that an entirely different writing team changed Kyle's surname six years earlier. So the argument that he was commonly known as "Kyle Jenkins" even as a child before 2010 is not entirely true.
The character of Kyle didn't even have a Wikipedia page of his own until 2012. Which was created my Livelikemusic, who is the main opponent of this name change. This "Kyle Jenkins" Wikipedia page was created on August 3, 2012. That was after actor Blake Hood had already started playing to role of Kyle as an adult. It was also after Y&R's official webpage on CBS.com listed the character as "Kyle Abbott" not "Kyle Jenkins." So this Kyle Jenkins Wikipedia page was created after the most reliable source on the internet credited the character as "Kyle Abbott." Also before this page was created, Wikipedia itself listed the character as "Kyle Jenkins Abbott" on the List of The Young and the Restless characters page. In fact the character of Kyle was first listed on that Wikipedia page on March 20, 2011 as "Kyle Jenkins Abbott." Through all the edits on that page between March of 2011 and this page's creation in August of 2012, no editor disputed that the character's last name was Abbott. Only one editor has continuously argued that his name is solely "Kyle Jenkins." That editor just also happens to be the creator of this page and the one still saying the character's surname is Jenkins, when every other reliable source lists the character's name as either "Kyle Jenkins Abbott" (for example Wikipedia itself as far back as March of 2011) or "Kyle Abbott" (Y&R's official webpage on CBS.com as far back as June of 2012). -- MrKing84 ( talk) 03:06, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
With only the 4 of us having entered this conversation (and with 2 of us supporting and 2 opposing), we're effectively at a stalemate (plus, it's been over a week since we've even discussed it). In the interest of "putting the matter to rest" (at least for now), I will change to being opposed. Sorry, MrKing84, I do agree with you, but... the four of us are all set in our ways and none of us are going to change our minds so we'll effectively just be going around in circles until (at least) a 5th editor joins in. I've added this to my watch list, when/if that happens, we can all take it up again then. Cheers! Cebr1979 ( talk) 00:16, 6 June 2015 (UTC)
I propose moving the page for the TV character Kyle Jenkins to Kyle Abbott (The Young and the Restless). Discussion on the talk page found here has stalled. Do you support this move? MrKing84 ( talk) 02:09, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
Although daytime dramas are occasionally repeated (primarily on a specialized venue, such as Soapnet), such series basically exist in the here-and-now. If, as of this writing, the program's credits list this character's name as "Kyle Abbott", then the main title header of the article should be Kyle Abbott (The Young and the Restless). A compromise solution would be to indicate the header as Kyle Jenkins Abbott, but some may not agree, because the credits do not use the full name, "Kyle Jenkins Abbott". Another, admittedly extreme, compromise solution would be to treat this fictional character as two connected separate entities, with two linked articles, one for his period as "Kyle Jenkins" and the other for his current period as "Kyle Abbott". There are likely sufficient storylines for both articles. —Roman Spinner (talk)(contribs) 16:40, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
This is a duplicate of an ongoing request. I'm closing this. George Ho ( talk) 23:27, 18 June 2015 (UTC)