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How is this paragraph showing respect to Shinto culture? I mean, is saying the sketchy nature of its historical references necessary? Kusanagi is an item of faith, by definition there doesn't need to be any proof for someone to believe and to make it sound as if there is some sort of controversy (oh no, a radio station got turned away at the door, this proves Kusanagi is a sham) is embarrassing. I don't see the same snarky tone taken to other major world religions:
Due to the refusal of Shinto priests to show the sword, and the rather sketchy nature of its historical references, the current state of or even the existence at all of the sword as a historical artifact cannot be confirmed. The last appearance of the sword was in 1989 when Emperor Akihito ascended to the throne, the sword (including the jewel and the Emperor's two seals) were shrouded in packages
What's more, it's not cited or referenced, so by definition it shouldn't be here.
Duende-Poetry (
talk) 23:03, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
Questions:
1. Is "Yamato-dake" the same as "Yamato-Takeru"? Takeru is the name I heard in my Japanese Lit. class. He also has a heading in Japanese mythology.
2. Did Suijin have the replica of Kusanagi made before the Battle of Dan no Ura? He would have to have, since he was Emperor #10 and the child emperor was #81. This should be made more clear in the article, since making a replica of a non-lost sword is much easier than making a replica of a lost sword.
3. Does this really belong in the category of "fictional swords?" Sure, the magical powers are fiction, but there was some sword that got chunked in the ocean at Dan-no-Ura. I would argue that the sword is "mythological" but not "fictional".
http://www.munitions.com/~fianna/lion/sword.html -- Deelkar 23:10, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Hello! I'm Japanese. This hero's name is not "Yamato-dake" but "Yamato-Takeru" Please show it. Wikipedia.ja Yamato-takeru
I think it is unreasonable to call this a "fictional swords" as it does or had existed. It can be argued that as its origin is in legends, it is a fictional sword, but then one would have to call all things with a legendary beginning as "Fictional". For example, many Greek cities as well as number of others are claimed to have been founded by gods or demi-gods but it would be pointless to call them "Fictional cities". It is most certainly a mythic weapon but to call it "fictional" is going too far. 01:05, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
"In historical times, the emperor possessed a real sword with the name Kusanagi. However, in 688 it was removed from the palace to Atsuta Shrine after the sword was blamed for causing Emperor Temmu to fall ill."
I assume you meant prehistoric times, since the Temmu stuff is in the Nihonshiki, which is the first real "history" of Japan. Nothing before that would be called historical. So, anything before that would be prehistoric, i.e. - before (written) history.
Which brings me to another point, if it was prehistoric, how could anyone verify it? Radiocarbon dating on the sword or something? That's gonna be difficult since the Shinto Priests won't let anyone see it. And THAT brings me to another theory of the current state of the sword that has surely been suggested by someone - that the sword doesn't and never did exist. The "replica" theory would become the "forgery" theory, in that case. I don't have references for any of this so I'm not gonna change the article, but it would be something to look into. MikeDockery 04:42, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
The original title of this section was "Advanced Dungeons and Dragons," which is a different edition than current one for that game; this may be worth mentioning. Does anyone have a citation for where the Kusanagi is mentioned in AD&D source material?-- Iainuki May 2, 2006
Although "Nagi" does mean "snake" (or a snake-like animal) in ancient Japanese, "Kusa" does not mean "sword." However, I am not sure what it DOES mean in an ancient context - it make mean "malodorous" (which is consistent with modern Japanese) but I read in one Internet source that it was something more like "extremely powerful" (or something like that) - however, I would like to have a more sure source in which to base article changes on. Edededed 04:41, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Roughly half of this entry is trivia. None of it adds anything relevant to the topic. This needs to be cleaned up. Lets try to limit it to the most relevant 3-5 items. Bendono 04:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
In light of the fact that there is currently no trivia section -- and that the "popular culture" section is only a few sentences long -- the Trivia section tag should be removed. If nobody else does it after a week or two, I'll do it myself. 218.225.111.205 00:22, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Given the list of game mentions... I couldn't help but wonder if there was any connection between the three legendary treasures mentioned here and the Krita-Yuga, Dvapara-Yuga and Kali-Yuga of Soul Calibur. While none of the legendary treasures was a staff... the sword and mirror are accounted for, and as I recall the Dvapara-Yuga (mirror) is actually a chain of mirrors... rather like a necklace itself, thereby signifying two in one... essentially. Plus of course the Krita-Yuga reveals itself to be the Soul Calibur (implying its importance as greater than Kilik's Kali-Yuga). Think there might be any connection there? SotiCoto 21:46, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't know how to do this...so can somebody add a redirect page for it's older names? Personally, I think it should be done as some games (For Example...Dark Cloud 2, in the form of the sword Ama no Murakumo) use the older name rather than the new one. So, some people will know the older name rather than the newer one Fruckert ( talk) 06:00, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Thank you kind sir Fruckert ( talk) 20:24, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
If we go to the page on Isonokami Shrine, Kusanagi is listed as a treasure that's being kept there, however on this page and on Atsuta Shrine, Kusanagi is listed as being kept at Atsuta. Is it currently kept at one of these and was, at some point kept at the other, and the articles are just poorly worded, or is there some misinformation going on? Hackeru ( talk) 08:47, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Kusanagi no Tsurugi/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Needs reference citations and references. Badbilltucker 21:36, 12 January 2007 (UTC) |
Last edited at 21:36, 12 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 20:02, 1 May 2016 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
How is this paragraph showing respect to Shinto culture? I mean, is saying the sketchy nature of its historical references necessary? Kusanagi is an item of faith, by definition there doesn't need to be any proof for someone to believe and to make it sound as if there is some sort of controversy (oh no, a radio station got turned away at the door, this proves Kusanagi is a sham) is embarrassing. I don't see the same snarky tone taken to other major world religions:
Due to the refusal of Shinto priests to show the sword, and the rather sketchy nature of its historical references, the current state of or even the existence at all of the sword as a historical artifact cannot be confirmed. The last appearance of the sword was in 1989 when Emperor Akihito ascended to the throne, the sword (including the jewel and the Emperor's two seals) were shrouded in packages
What's more, it's not cited or referenced, so by definition it shouldn't be here.
Duende-Poetry (
talk) 23:03, 28 November 2011 (UTC)
Questions:
1. Is "Yamato-dake" the same as "Yamato-Takeru"? Takeru is the name I heard in my Japanese Lit. class. He also has a heading in Japanese mythology.
2. Did Suijin have the replica of Kusanagi made before the Battle of Dan no Ura? He would have to have, since he was Emperor #10 and the child emperor was #81. This should be made more clear in the article, since making a replica of a non-lost sword is much easier than making a replica of a lost sword.
3. Does this really belong in the category of "fictional swords?" Sure, the magical powers are fiction, but there was some sword that got chunked in the ocean at Dan-no-Ura. I would argue that the sword is "mythological" but not "fictional".
http://www.munitions.com/~fianna/lion/sword.html -- Deelkar 23:10, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Hello! I'm Japanese. This hero's name is not "Yamato-dake" but "Yamato-Takeru" Please show it. Wikipedia.ja Yamato-takeru
I think it is unreasonable to call this a "fictional swords" as it does or had existed. It can be argued that as its origin is in legends, it is a fictional sword, but then one would have to call all things with a legendary beginning as "Fictional". For example, many Greek cities as well as number of others are claimed to have been founded by gods or demi-gods but it would be pointless to call them "Fictional cities". It is most certainly a mythic weapon but to call it "fictional" is going too far. 01:05, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
"In historical times, the emperor possessed a real sword with the name Kusanagi. However, in 688 it was removed from the palace to Atsuta Shrine after the sword was blamed for causing Emperor Temmu to fall ill."
I assume you meant prehistoric times, since the Temmu stuff is in the Nihonshiki, which is the first real "history" of Japan. Nothing before that would be called historical. So, anything before that would be prehistoric, i.e. - before (written) history.
Which brings me to another point, if it was prehistoric, how could anyone verify it? Radiocarbon dating on the sword or something? That's gonna be difficult since the Shinto Priests won't let anyone see it. And THAT brings me to another theory of the current state of the sword that has surely been suggested by someone - that the sword doesn't and never did exist. The "replica" theory would become the "forgery" theory, in that case. I don't have references for any of this so I'm not gonna change the article, but it would be something to look into. MikeDockery 04:42, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
The original title of this section was "Advanced Dungeons and Dragons," which is a different edition than current one for that game; this may be worth mentioning. Does anyone have a citation for where the Kusanagi is mentioned in AD&D source material?-- Iainuki May 2, 2006
Although "Nagi" does mean "snake" (or a snake-like animal) in ancient Japanese, "Kusa" does not mean "sword." However, I am not sure what it DOES mean in an ancient context - it make mean "malodorous" (which is consistent with modern Japanese) but I read in one Internet source that it was something more like "extremely powerful" (or something like that) - however, I would like to have a more sure source in which to base article changes on. Edededed 04:41, 27 June 2006 (UTC)
Roughly half of this entry is trivia. None of it adds anything relevant to the topic. This needs to be cleaned up. Lets try to limit it to the most relevant 3-5 items. Bendono 04:58, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
In light of the fact that there is currently no trivia section -- and that the "popular culture" section is only a few sentences long -- the Trivia section tag should be removed. If nobody else does it after a week or two, I'll do it myself. 218.225.111.205 00:22, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
Given the list of game mentions... I couldn't help but wonder if there was any connection between the three legendary treasures mentioned here and the Krita-Yuga, Dvapara-Yuga and Kali-Yuga of Soul Calibur. While none of the legendary treasures was a staff... the sword and mirror are accounted for, and as I recall the Dvapara-Yuga (mirror) is actually a chain of mirrors... rather like a necklace itself, thereby signifying two in one... essentially. Plus of course the Krita-Yuga reveals itself to be the Soul Calibur (implying its importance as greater than Kilik's Kali-Yuga). Think there might be any connection there? SotiCoto 21:46, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
I don't know how to do this...so can somebody add a redirect page for it's older names? Personally, I think it should be done as some games (For Example...Dark Cloud 2, in the form of the sword Ama no Murakumo) use the older name rather than the new one. So, some people will know the older name rather than the newer one Fruckert ( talk) 06:00, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Thank you kind sir Fruckert ( talk) 20:24, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
If we go to the page on Isonokami Shrine, Kusanagi is listed as a treasure that's being kept there, however on this page and on Atsuta Shrine, Kusanagi is listed as being kept at Atsuta. Is it currently kept at one of these and was, at some point kept at the other, and the articles are just poorly worded, or is there some misinformation going on? Hackeru ( talk) 08:47, 16 November 2014 (UTC)
The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Kusanagi no Tsurugi/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.
Needs reference citations and references. Badbilltucker 21:36, 12 January 2007 (UTC) |
Last edited at 21:36, 12 January 2007 (UTC). Substituted at 20:02, 1 May 2016 (UTC)