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Kurdish new year?! This is part of the Iranian culture, I invite contributers to mention this properly in the article instead of making it look like its a Kurdish thing. It is not 'coincidentally' the start of spring, check the article Norouz for information. -- Kash 11:04, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
1- Kurdish culture, is part of Iranian culture as they are Iranian people as far as I am aware. 2- Please cite evidence that Kurdish Norouz is not the same as Norouz celebrated by the other Iranian people.
Until then I may think about removing many Kurd articles which seem to be totally nationalistic and uncited -- Kash 13:27, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Kurdish Newroz is the same as as the Norouz celebrated by Afghans, Persians, Tajiks, Turkmens, Azeri's etc. It is a Zoroastrian celebration and you can also find it in the shahnameh Firdowsi. It is based on the Assyrian Kha b-Nisan and similar to other spring ( Equinox) celebrations. Ibrahim4048 ( talk) 22:17, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
"one of the richest, healthiest and finest."
This is all POV. Also, please reference all the info in this article. The current link of the center does not provide the source of this information. -- MysticRum 17:50, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
I am part Kurdish myself and have to laugh about this article. So much wrong information is given and the article is obviously biased. First of all Kurds have nothing to do with the Hurrians who are like the Sumerians an isolate group and do not have contemporary descendants. It is true that the Hurrian population was partly assimilated by the Medians (ancestors of the Kurds) and other Indo-Aryan peoples but then you could also claim Kurds are Assyrians/Chaldeans or that Turks are Hittites, Greeks, Assyrians, Kurds, and Arabs etc. In time almost every people has been assimilated by another conquering people. Look for example at the Turks who are supposed to be central Asians (like Mongols) but don't look Asiatic because they have intermixed with the local people or assimilated them. It is true tough that Kurdish culture is influenced and based on Mesopotamian culture. The Kurdish Newroz for example comes from the Assyrian Kha b-Nisan. They were both celebrated on March 21 but due to the change of calendar, the Assyrians celebrate it on April 1 now. That Kurds are more moderate Muslims than their neighbours is also a blatant lie. Come on. If the person who wrote this article is Kurdish or even knows a little about the position of women in Kurdish society then you know this is not true. Only among the alevi, communist and atheist/agnostic Kurds women have a status that comes even remotely close to equal status. Kurdish culture is generally extremely backwards when it comes to women. Kurds have higher rates of honor killing than other Muslims in the countries they live in. Telling lies doesn't help the Kurdish cause, it only distances people and makes them start to doubt everything Kurds tell. Ibrahim4048 ( talk) 22:01, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
this section has been updated and more information has been provided. Flavallee:Talk 08:56, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Kurds have always been among the more moderate Muslims and as a result Kurdish women have faced less restrictions in wearing hijab or holding jobs outside home than other muslim women. [1]
I am deleting this part. The link doesn't work and it is obviously not true. Kurdish culture is notorious for opressing women and honor killings. They are almost the same as iran and the taliban only just a little less oppressive Ibrahim4048 ( talk) 20:14, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
It is actually the other way around. Kurds are far more traditional than Turks. In central turkey and west turkey you will see for example that the majority of women are not veiled while in south eastern turkey where the kurdish and arab population is dominant almost every woman is veiled to some extent (full face covering veil to loose headscarf). Kurdish women are almost never allowed to have jobs outside their homes with the exlusion of Dersim region where women are traditionally treated more equally. Fixed marriages and underage marriages are more common in the south east anatolia region. This is not primarily caused by kurdish culture since turkish culture was similar a couple of decades ago but because of isolation, lack of (social) investments, civil war and economic reasons which halted modernizing influences while west turkey was more prosperous and subject to modernization.
Ibrahim4048 (
talk)
11:59, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
I agree that in their old nomadic lifestyle both turkmens and nomadic kurds were pretty free. But sedentary kurds are a different story. Among them here has been this culture of oppression not only of women by men but also of men by other men. Landlords oppressing their serfs for example. Medieval Feudal society still exists in a lot of places in south east anatolia. I think that living of agriculture and owning land makes these societies oppressive. They want to protect their land, their wealth and women and are extremely possessive of them. Pastoral peoples however are less possessive and rely more on their social cohesion. I agree totally with you that kurds have been oppressed for centuries and that this contributed to their backwards isolated position today but it is still a fact that today they are not more moderate than other muslims. What has been a long time ago doesn't apply now. So I disagree with was in the article because it gives wron information. There are a lot good things in kurdish culture but the position of women is not one of them. Luckily things are changing now and with the influence of kurdish immigrants to istanbul and europe even the most isolated regions are exposed to outside influences and idea's when these immigrants return to their hometowns for vacation or visits.
Ibrahim4048 (
talk)
13:01, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
If you can give an academic source (jstor, google scholar) which gives this information you can restore it. I removed it because the link didn't exist anymore and i didn't believe the information given without an academic source. I have no objections if you restore it if you provide sources for the text.
Ibrahim4048 (
talk)
15:07, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to put that in the article go ahead, nobody is stopping you. You have the right to do that since you have a valid source. There are 100's of sources that disagree tough and anyone familiar with kurdish culture knows about the honor killings, buying and selling of brides (dowry, money, gold, cattle), polygamy, underage marriage, sexual oppression, no freedom to choose partner etc. Despite all that do you still believe kurds are more modern than for example Turks? I don't know how that britannica article came into existence but it is not very accurate. Perhaps it is based upon a comparison between kurdish Iranians and Iranians proper. Because I do remember reading something like that. But it doesn't apply to iraqi arab culture because under saddam iraq was pretty much secular and women rights improved a great deal altough not in remote isolated regions. It certainly doesn't apply on turkish culture because traditional turkish culture barely exists anymore. Read these articles/books and you will see for yourself. I won't put them in the article itself because I am against adding negative contributions to these kind of articles because every people has a right to profile itself without being constantly attacked and discredited. I just want to give counter arguments for your idea that kurdish culture is more modern than the surrounding cultures. Female Genital Mutilation
[1] (I have to admit I never heard of this among the kurmanci or zaza kurds of turkey, maybe in iraq), Honor Killings
[2] and Polygamy
[3]
Here are some excerpts from this book [4] Hassanpour, Amir. The (Re)production of Kurdish Patriarchy in the Kurdish Language and the Kurdish Women’s Rights Watch 2007 [5].
Amir Hassanpour is certainly right, and I believe him. But what you removed was a comparison between Kurds and non-Kurds. Ellipi ( talk) 17:30, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to put this in the article I have no problem with it. It is sourced at least
What I deleted above was not sourced because the link doesn't work and besides it says kurdish women have less restrictions than other muslim women. Do you even know how many different types of muslim women are? It sounds more like someone made it up himself because a scholar would at least compare kurdish women to other specific groups of muslim women and would not take the whole group of muslim women to compare with. Ibrahim4048 ( talk) 00:26, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
References
An image used in this article,
File:Kurdish Mountaineer.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at
Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations
Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 13:34, 15 August 2011 (UTC) |
This page is pointless. There's already a wiki page on Kurds, which involves culture, food, religion, arts, history, and the different type of Kurdish tribes. There's no point in even merging this page with the other since the other page has more information on culture than this one.
/info/en/?search=Kurds#Culture — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:201F:FF8D:D1B7:F328:82D2:7B6F ( talk) 05:56, 4 September 2016 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Kurdish culture article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to the topics of Kurds and Kurdistan, broadly construed, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
Kurdish new year?! This is part of the Iranian culture, I invite contributers to mention this properly in the article instead of making it look like its a Kurdish thing. It is not 'coincidentally' the start of spring, check the article Norouz for information. -- Kash 11:04, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
1- Kurdish culture, is part of Iranian culture as they are Iranian people as far as I am aware. 2- Please cite evidence that Kurdish Norouz is not the same as Norouz celebrated by the other Iranian people.
Until then I may think about removing many Kurd articles which seem to be totally nationalistic and uncited -- Kash 13:27, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Kurdish Newroz is the same as as the Norouz celebrated by Afghans, Persians, Tajiks, Turkmens, Azeri's etc. It is a Zoroastrian celebration and you can also find it in the shahnameh Firdowsi. It is based on the Assyrian Kha b-Nisan and similar to other spring ( Equinox) celebrations. Ibrahim4048 ( talk) 22:17, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
"one of the richest, healthiest and finest."
This is all POV. Also, please reference all the info in this article. The current link of the center does not provide the source of this information. -- MysticRum 17:50, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
I am part Kurdish myself and have to laugh about this article. So much wrong information is given and the article is obviously biased. First of all Kurds have nothing to do with the Hurrians who are like the Sumerians an isolate group and do not have contemporary descendants. It is true that the Hurrian population was partly assimilated by the Medians (ancestors of the Kurds) and other Indo-Aryan peoples but then you could also claim Kurds are Assyrians/Chaldeans or that Turks are Hittites, Greeks, Assyrians, Kurds, and Arabs etc. In time almost every people has been assimilated by another conquering people. Look for example at the Turks who are supposed to be central Asians (like Mongols) but don't look Asiatic because they have intermixed with the local people or assimilated them. It is true tough that Kurdish culture is influenced and based on Mesopotamian culture. The Kurdish Newroz for example comes from the Assyrian Kha b-Nisan. They were both celebrated on March 21 but due to the change of calendar, the Assyrians celebrate it on April 1 now. That Kurds are more moderate Muslims than their neighbours is also a blatant lie. Come on. If the person who wrote this article is Kurdish or even knows a little about the position of women in Kurdish society then you know this is not true. Only among the alevi, communist and atheist/agnostic Kurds women have a status that comes even remotely close to equal status. Kurdish culture is generally extremely backwards when it comes to women. Kurds have higher rates of honor killing than other Muslims in the countries they live in. Telling lies doesn't help the Kurdish cause, it only distances people and makes them start to doubt everything Kurds tell. Ibrahim4048 ( talk) 22:01, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
this section has been updated and more information has been provided. Flavallee:Talk 08:56, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Kurds have always been among the more moderate Muslims and as a result Kurdish women have faced less restrictions in wearing hijab or holding jobs outside home than other muslim women. [1]
I am deleting this part. The link doesn't work and it is obviously not true. Kurdish culture is notorious for opressing women and honor killings. They are almost the same as iran and the taliban only just a little less oppressive Ibrahim4048 ( talk) 20:14, 1 March 2009 (UTC)
It is actually the other way around. Kurds are far more traditional than Turks. In central turkey and west turkey you will see for example that the majority of women are not veiled while in south eastern turkey where the kurdish and arab population is dominant almost every woman is veiled to some extent (full face covering veil to loose headscarf). Kurdish women are almost never allowed to have jobs outside their homes with the exlusion of Dersim region where women are traditionally treated more equally. Fixed marriages and underage marriages are more common in the south east anatolia region. This is not primarily caused by kurdish culture since turkish culture was similar a couple of decades ago but because of isolation, lack of (social) investments, civil war and economic reasons which halted modernizing influences while west turkey was more prosperous and subject to modernization.
Ibrahim4048 (
talk)
11:59, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
I agree that in their old nomadic lifestyle both turkmens and nomadic kurds were pretty free. But sedentary kurds are a different story. Among them here has been this culture of oppression not only of women by men but also of men by other men. Landlords oppressing their serfs for example. Medieval Feudal society still exists in a lot of places in south east anatolia. I think that living of agriculture and owning land makes these societies oppressive. They want to protect their land, their wealth and women and are extremely possessive of them. Pastoral peoples however are less possessive and rely more on their social cohesion. I agree totally with you that kurds have been oppressed for centuries and that this contributed to their backwards isolated position today but it is still a fact that today they are not more moderate than other muslims. What has been a long time ago doesn't apply now. So I disagree with was in the article because it gives wron information. There are a lot good things in kurdish culture but the position of women is not one of them. Luckily things are changing now and with the influence of kurdish immigrants to istanbul and europe even the most isolated regions are exposed to outside influences and idea's when these immigrants return to their hometowns for vacation or visits.
Ibrahim4048 (
talk)
13:01, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
If you can give an academic source (jstor, google scholar) which gives this information you can restore it. I removed it because the link didn't exist anymore and i didn't believe the information given without an academic source. I have no objections if you restore it if you provide sources for the text.
Ibrahim4048 (
talk)
15:07, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to put that in the article go ahead, nobody is stopping you. You have the right to do that since you have a valid source. There are 100's of sources that disagree tough and anyone familiar with kurdish culture knows about the honor killings, buying and selling of brides (dowry, money, gold, cattle), polygamy, underage marriage, sexual oppression, no freedom to choose partner etc. Despite all that do you still believe kurds are more modern than for example Turks? I don't know how that britannica article came into existence but it is not very accurate. Perhaps it is based upon a comparison between kurdish Iranians and Iranians proper. Because I do remember reading something like that. But it doesn't apply to iraqi arab culture because under saddam iraq was pretty much secular and women rights improved a great deal altough not in remote isolated regions. It certainly doesn't apply on turkish culture because traditional turkish culture barely exists anymore. Read these articles/books and you will see for yourself. I won't put them in the article itself because I am against adding negative contributions to these kind of articles because every people has a right to profile itself without being constantly attacked and discredited. I just want to give counter arguments for your idea that kurdish culture is more modern than the surrounding cultures. Female Genital Mutilation
[1] (I have to admit I never heard of this among the kurmanci or zaza kurds of turkey, maybe in iraq), Honor Killings
[2] and Polygamy
[3]
Here are some excerpts from this book [4] Hassanpour, Amir. The (Re)production of Kurdish Patriarchy in the Kurdish Language and the Kurdish Women’s Rights Watch 2007 [5].
Amir Hassanpour is certainly right, and I believe him. But what you removed was a comparison between Kurds and non-Kurds. Ellipi ( talk) 17:30, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
If you want to put this in the article I have no problem with it. It is sourced at least
What I deleted above was not sourced because the link doesn't work and besides it says kurdish women have less restrictions than other muslim women. Do you even know how many different types of muslim women are? It sounds more like someone made it up himself because a scholar would at least compare kurdish women to other specific groups of muslim women and would not take the whole group of muslim women to compare with. Ibrahim4048 ( talk) 00:26, 3 March 2009 (UTC)
References
An image used in this article,
File:Kurdish Mountaineer.jpg, has been nominated for speedy deletion at
Wikimedia Commons for the following reason: Copyright violations
Don't panic; deletions can take a little longer at Commons than they do on Wikipedia. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion (although please review Commons guidelines before doing so). The best way to contest this form of deletion is by posting on the image talk page.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 13:34, 15 August 2011 (UTC) |
This page is pointless. There's already a wiki page on Kurds, which involves culture, food, religion, arts, history, and the different type of Kurdish tribes. There's no point in even merging this page with the other since the other page has more information on culture than this one.
/info/en/?search=Kurds#Culture — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2607:FEA8:201F:FF8D:D1B7:F328:82D2:7B6F ( talk) 05:56, 4 September 2016 (UTC)