This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Kurdish Hezbollah article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | Page views of this article over the last 90 days:
|
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | It is requested that an image or photograph of Kurdish Hezbollah be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
Wikipedians in Turkey may be able to help! The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
I deleted the state that the turkish Hizbollah are 'non-violent for 10 years', because the source of that statement was not readible. Besides that, they still do violent actions against PKK and HDP. It's even said that they fought with the Islamic State. Only Turkish Government names them as non-violent, no matter what they do, because this is mostly a turkish influenced violent group. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:89:2F09:3E00:C180:54E1:1A87:AC0E ( talk) 19:51, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
What is up with this pages name? Is (turkish) included to signify that this group is active in Turkey? If so the brackets should come after the name.-- nixie 00:43, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
There is another Hizbullah operating in the Kurdish areas of the Turkish Republic. Are there two articles on the same group? If not some one with the knowledge should clarify the relations between the two groups. Bertilvidet 10:29, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
The article states "Kurdish Hizballah or Turkish Hizballah has no official organic ties with either the Lebanon-based Islamist group also named Hizballah or its offshoots throughout the Middle East. Notwithstanding a few similarities in terms of ideology, methods and goals, they are essentially very distinct terrorist groups."
and then goes on with a whole load of stuf about Lebanese Hezbollah.
Surely if the first statement is true the rest is irrelevant? AndrewRT 20:58, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thies Hizbullah is not Turkish-Kurdish, thies is Kurdish islamic Group
I know that I am going on to some sensitive ground here, but most of the refs refer to this group as "Turkish Hezbullah".. Shouldn't we refrain from interpreting the sources? Besides, to my personal knowledge, this group incorporates many Turkish elements, maybe in a majority at the moment. I might be wrong, but I think that the most common name for this group in English is "Turkish Hezbollah" and not "Kurdish Hezbollah"..
Here are the google results:
I don't want anyone get hyped over this, but I will be moving the page per the results above. It is not even clear if these people refer to themselves as "Kurdish Hezbollah" (if they had, then there would be a different argument). However, as things currently stand, the overwhelming Google search points us towards the neccessity of the move. Cheers!
Baristarim
03:32, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Look at the first few words on this, it is called Hizbullahî Kurdî, or the Kurdish hezbollah, the Google hits mentioned are just the result of amateur reference to this hezbollah in contrast to the more well know Hezbollah in Palestine/Syria/Lebanon
the Reason for this is that most terroristic activity by this hezbollah has been committed in Turkey and against Turkish government, but this movement does not identify itself as Turkish but, well of course Kurdish, that's the point of this whole movement, why harm Turkey, if you think you are a stakeholder in the future of Turkey? They only look forward to a Kurdish future in the region,
Think about it.. I think it should be in Kurdish Hezbollah
which of these sources designates Turkey anti-semitic terrorist state. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.196.250.222 ( talk) 20:39, 27 March 2007 (UTC).
Sorry, but I suppose that the article needs a thorough rewrite. For a start I would recommend to read the backgrounder of Human Rights Watch What is Turkey's Hizbullah? published on 16 January 2000. Statements that need correction include:
This is just the beginning of a longer list for a cleanup. My question: does anyone first want to discuss these items or should I go ahead with the rewrite? Sc.helm ( talk) 10:21, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
its turkish hizbollah who founded by turkish statae to fight agaisnt pkk —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.182.43.132 ( talk) 20:09, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
The name should be chosen according to English sources. According to consensus reached here before, in these sources Turkish Hezbollah is the most popular one. If it is not, try WP:RM. Kavas ( talk) 17:02, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
When I utilized the search box at google.com I have found 1.980 results for Hizbullah (Turkey), 20800 results for "Turkish Hezbollah " and 6670 results for ""Turkish Hizbullah". Kavas ( talk) 19:56, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
Google books:
are there other alternative names ? Takabeg ( talk) 22:58, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
Hizbullah (Turkey)? Kavas ( talk) 20:30, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Takabeg ( talk) 01:18, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
The name Turkish Hezbollah may come up most on google, but first of all it's POV, secondly and most importantly, it is simply incorrect because this organisation is not called "The Turkish Hezbollah," their name is Hizbullah. And if anything they are the Kurdish Hezbollah. Kermanshahi ( talk) 21:27, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
The name in Turkish and Kurdish is Hizbullah, never Hezbollah neither other similar versions. Unless this is very specifically a (mistaken) English standard (and can be sourced) there is absolutely no reason to change the I for E. Turkish and Kurdish are both written with Latin alphabet, so no transcription alternatives are allowed, as there is no transcription (as opposed to the case of Lebanese Hiz/Hez/bu/bo/llah). If nobody objects with good reasons, I'll do the changes. Ilyacadiz ( talk) 08:16, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. The current title is blatantly wrong and no has specifically opposed. No prejudice against a new RM discussing the issues of whether it should be "Kurdish" or "(Turkey)" in the title, or whether it should be "Hezbollah" or "Hizbullah". Jenks24 ( talk) 06:14, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
Kurdish Hizbollah (Turkey) →
Kurdish Hezbollah – Correct grammar. --Relisted.
Armbrust
The Homunculus 12:54, 26 June 2014 (UTC) –
elmasmelih (used to be KazekageTR)
22:09, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
Or we could just rename it to Hezbollah (Turkey) as it requested above. elmasmelih (used to be KazekageTR) 15:42, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Unopposed for over two weeks. Jenks24 ( talk) 05:07, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
Kurdish Hezbollah →
Turkish Hezbollah – The organization official name is just "Hizbullah" in Turkey. It is officially called as "Turkey's Hezbollah" and "Turkish Hezbollah". Check the sources--->
[1]
[2]
[3]
The article's title does not agree with the references.
Books, news and articles always call it as a Turkish Hezbollah, not Kurdish Hezbollah. See the book,
[4]
References
Ferakp ( talk) 22:16, 26 December 2015 (UTC) Relisted. Jenks24 ( talk) 08:50, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
The official name of the organisation is Hizbullah. It mentioned it in its manifesti that it released in 2012: http://www.dogruhaber.com.tr/haber/21776-hizbullah-cemaatinin-manifestosu-yayinlandi/
Hizbullah's members are mostly Kurds and it operates mostly in Kurdish areas so to call it Turkish Hizbullah is misleading, the name should be changed to "Kurdish Hizbullah" or "Hizbullah in Turkey"
Many Turkish and Kurdish sources mentioned that Hzbullah is a majority Kurdish organisation with influence in mostly Kurdish populated areas: Source 1: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/tr/originals/2015/06/turkey-syria-kurds-turkish-hezbollah-reconcile-isis-pkk.html
Source 2: http://www.gazetevatan.com/rusen-cakir-425032-yazar-yazisi-hizbullah-tan-33-yil-gecikmeli-manifesto/
And Hizbullah itself says that it want to be part of the solution for the Kurdish issue seeing itself as important part of the Kurdish side and dont accepts the PKK as representatives of the Kurdish people: Source 1: https://huseynisevda.biz/viewpage.php?page_id=87
Source 2: http://www.dogruhaber.com.tr/haber/20218-hizbullah-cemaatinden-kurd-meselesi-hasbihali/
The founders Hüseyin Velioğlu and İsa Altsoy and the current leader Edip Gümüs are both Kurds. And Oxford Islamic Studies calls it "Kurdish Hizbullah": http://www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/article/opr/t236/e0317
So Hizbullahs members are mostly Kurds, the organisation sees itself as representative of Kurdish people and Turkish sources also mention that Hizbullah is mostly active in Kurdish areas, so the Name should be changed.-- Alan Genco ( talk) 23:36, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 7 external links on Turkish Hezbollah. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 08:38, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 19:24, 26 March 2023 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Kurdish Hezbollah article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | Page views of this article over the last 90 days:
|
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | It is requested that an image or photograph of Kurdish Hezbollah be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
Wikipedians in Turkey may be able to help! The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
I deleted the state that the turkish Hizbollah are 'non-violent for 10 years', because the source of that statement was not readible. Besides that, they still do violent actions against PKK and HDP. It's even said that they fought with the Islamic State. Only Turkish Government names them as non-violent, no matter what they do, because this is mostly a turkish influenced violent group. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:89:2F09:3E00:C180:54E1:1A87:AC0E ( talk) 19:51, 27 April 2018 (UTC)
What is up with this pages name? Is (turkish) included to signify that this group is active in Turkey? If so the brackets should come after the name.-- nixie 00:43, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
There is another Hizbullah operating in the Kurdish areas of the Turkish Republic. Are there two articles on the same group? If not some one with the knowledge should clarify the relations between the two groups. Bertilvidet 10:29, 24 January 2006 (UTC)
The article states "Kurdish Hizballah or Turkish Hizballah has no official organic ties with either the Lebanon-based Islamist group also named Hizballah or its offshoots throughout the Middle East. Notwithstanding a few similarities in terms of ideology, methods and goals, they are essentially very distinct terrorist groups."
and then goes on with a whole load of stuf about Lebanese Hezbollah.
Surely if the first statement is true the rest is irrelevant? AndrewRT 20:58, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
thies Hizbullah is not Turkish-Kurdish, thies is Kurdish islamic Group
I know that I am going on to some sensitive ground here, but most of the refs refer to this group as "Turkish Hezbullah".. Shouldn't we refrain from interpreting the sources? Besides, to my personal knowledge, this group incorporates many Turkish elements, maybe in a majority at the moment. I might be wrong, but I think that the most common name for this group in English is "Turkish Hezbollah" and not "Kurdish Hezbollah"..
Here are the google results:
I don't want anyone get hyped over this, but I will be moving the page per the results above. It is not even clear if these people refer to themselves as "Kurdish Hezbollah" (if they had, then there would be a different argument). However, as things currently stand, the overwhelming Google search points us towards the neccessity of the move. Cheers!
Baristarim
03:32, 28 December 2006 (UTC)
Look at the first few words on this, it is called Hizbullahî Kurdî, or the Kurdish hezbollah, the Google hits mentioned are just the result of amateur reference to this hezbollah in contrast to the more well know Hezbollah in Palestine/Syria/Lebanon
the Reason for this is that most terroristic activity by this hezbollah has been committed in Turkey and against Turkish government, but this movement does not identify itself as Turkish but, well of course Kurdish, that's the point of this whole movement, why harm Turkey, if you think you are a stakeholder in the future of Turkey? They only look forward to a Kurdish future in the region,
Think about it.. I think it should be in Kurdish Hezbollah
which of these sources designates Turkey anti-semitic terrorist state. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.196.250.222 ( talk) 20:39, 27 March 2007 (UTC).
Sorry, but I suppose that the article needs a thorough rewrite. For a start I would recommend to read the backgrounder of Human Rights Watch What is Turkey's Hizbullah? published on 16 January 2000. Statements that need correction include:
This is just the beginning of a longer list for a cleanup. My question: does anyone first want to discuss these items or should I go ahead with the rewrite? Sc.helm ( talk) 10:21, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
its turkish hizbollah who founded by turkish statae to fight agaisnt pkk —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.182.43.132 ( talk) 20:09, 12 January 2011 (UTC)
The name should be chosen according to English sources. According to consensus reached here before, in these sources Turkish Hezbollah is the most popular one. If it is not, try WP:RM. Kavas ( talk) 17:02, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
When I utilized the search box at google.com I have found 1.980 results for Hizbullah (Turkey), 20800 results for "Turkish Hezbollah " and 6670 results for ""Turkish Hizbullah". Kavas ( talk) 19:56, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
Google books:
are there other alternative names ? Takabeg ( talk) 22:58, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
Hizbullah (Turkey)? Kavas ( talk) 20:30, 22 July 2011 (UTC)
Takabeg ( talk) 01:18, 23 July 2011 (UTC)
The name Turkish Hezbollah may come up most on google, but first of all it's POV, secondly and most importantly, it is simply incorrect because this organisation is not called "The Turkish Hezbollah," their name is Hizbullah. And if anything they are the Kurdish Hezbollah. Kermanshahi ( talk) 21:27, 27 November 2011 (UTC)
The name in Turkish and Kurdish is Hizbullah, never Hezbollah neither other similar versions. Unless this is very specifically a (mistaken) English standard (and can be sourced) there is absolutely no reason to change the I for E. Turkish and Kurdish are both written with Latin alphabet, so no transcription alternatives are allowed, as there is no transcription (as opposed to the case of Lebanese Hiz/Hez/bu/bo/llah). If nobody objects with good reasons, I'll do the changes. Ilyacadiz ( talk) 08:16, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. The current title is blatantly wrong and no has specifically opposed. No prejudice against a new RM discussing the issues of whether it should be "Kurdish" or "(Turkey)" in the title, or whether it should be "Hezbollah" or "Hizbullah". Jenks24 ( talk) 06:14, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
Kurdish Hizbollah (Turkey) →
Kurdish Hezbollah – Correct grammar. --Relisted.
Armbrust
The Homunculus 12:54, 26 June 2014 (UTC) –
elmasmelih (used to be KazekageTR)
22:09, 18 June 2014 (UTC)
Or we could just rename it to Hezbollah (Turkey) as it requested above. elmasmelih (used to be KazekageTR) 15:42, 21 June 2014 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Unopposed for over two weeks. Jenks24 ( talk) 05:07, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
Kurdish Hezbollah →
Turkish Hezbollah – The organization official name is just "Hizbullah" in Turkey. It is officially called as "Turkey's Hezbollah" and "Turkish Hezbollah". Check the sources--->
[1]
[2]
[3]
The article's title does not agree with the references.
Books, news and articles always call it as a Turkish Hezbollah, not Kurdish Hezbollah. See the book,
[4]
References
Ferakp ( talk) 22:16, 26 December 2015 (UTC) Relisted. Jenks24 ( talk) 08:50, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
The official name of the organisation is Hizbullah. It mentioned it in its manifesti that it released in 2012: http://www.dogruhaber.com.tr/haber/21776-hizbullah-cemaatinin-manifestosu-yayinlandi/
Hizbullah's members are mostly Kurds and it operates mostly in Kurdish areas so to call it Turkish Hizbullah is misleading, the name should be changed to "Kurdish Hizbullah" or "Hizbullah in Turkey"
Many Turkish and Kurdish sources mentioned that Hzbullah is a majority Kurdish organisation with influence in mostly Kurdish populated areas: Source 1: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/tr/originals/2015/06/turkey-syria-kurds-turkish-hezbollah-reconcile-isis-pkk.html
Source 2: http://www.gazetevatan.com/rusen-cakir-425032-yazar-yazisi-hizbullah-tan-33-yil-gecikmeli-manifesto/
And Hizbullah itself says that it want to be part of the solution for the Kurdish issue seeing itself as important part of the Kurdish side and dont accepts the PKK as representatives of the Kurdish people: Source 1: https://huseynisevda.biz/viewpage.php?page_id=87
Source 2: http://www.dogruhaber.com.tr/haber/20218-hizbullah-cemaatinden-kurd-meselesi-hasbihali/
The founders Hüseyin Velioğlu and İsa Altsoy and the current leader Edip Gümüs are both Kurds. And Oxford Islamic Studies calls it "Kurdish Hizbullah": http://www.oxfordislamicstudies.com/article/opr/t236/e0317
So Hizbullahs members are mostly Kurds, the organisation sees itself as representative of Kurdish people and Turkish sources also mention that Hizbullah is mostly active in Kurdish areas, so the Name should be changed.-- Alan Genco ( talk) 23:36, 31 October 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 7 external links on Turkish Hezbollah. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 08:38, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 19:24, 26 March 2023 (UTC)