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(transfered from
Asbl's talk page)
hi! i saw your edits of the
kunya (arabic) article. thank's for the grammar fix, but the list of persons was actually intended for the kunya in general, and not as subsection of the previous part, since the article is not only about palestinian guerilla usage. could you please restore the list as it was? if not, there's other names that should be removed too. abu bakr the caliph didn't get the name while undercover, you know :-) best regards,
Arre
04:09, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
OK, I opened up the category for you, and added a couple of people (check out
Abu Jihad and
Yasser Arafat. The problem I am having is that I cannot control how the names appear, as they depend on how the names are listed in the article. For Example, Khalil al-Wazeer is simply listed as "Abu Jihad". I would prefer to list the person's name and in parenthesis the Kunya.
Have fun going through Wikipedia and finding more people to add to the category. --
Asbl
17:43, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
By the way, I dont think Abu Sayyaf belongs in the list, but I did not remove it because it clearly does not refer to a person who has a son named "Sayyaf". I do not know what to do with it. -- Asbl 05:30, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
It appears that the application of the name "Abu Ammar" to Yasser Arafat is no different than naming the group "Abu Sayyef", so I put them together.
Please Note: the way the article currently reads, the Prophet Muhammad had a companion named Abu Amar, sounds like they were a
homosexual couple. I am not Muslim, so I do not know who was Abu Ammar, and I am not sure what was meant by the word "companion" when it was originally written. --
Asbl
07:31, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
Abou Ammar (Y.Arafat) was called cause he was civil engineer in profession (arabic: mohandis ammar).
The article " Anthroponymy" includes the term teknonym, which according to Wiktionary is
Kunya would be an example of this, correct? — ˈzɪzɨvə ( talk) 18:23, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Would it be possible to add some examples of feminine kunya, from real life? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.135.20.229 ( talk) 11:28, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
I've removed the following 'examples', which were added years ago by an IP editor (created as straight body text in the original edit, and later on formatted as table):
"
The following are some examples of widely used Kunya in Arab world:
Child's birth name | Kunya |
---|---|
Khalīd | Abū Walīd |
Walīd | Abū Khalīd |
Alī | Abū Hussein |
Hussein | Abū Alī |
Muhammad | Abū Jassim/Qassim |
Yūsuf | Abū Ya'qūb |
Ya'qūb | Abū Yūsuf |
Khalīl | Abū Ibrahīm |
Ibrahīm | Abū Khalīl |
"
These are unreferenced, and almost certainly wrong (why would the kunya for Ali be Abū Hussein, and for Hussein Abū Alī, etc.?); this may have been just hoax or vandalism. I could have of course corrected the table, but I don't really think it adds much; the concept of a kunya should be fairy obvious by that stage in the article, without listing ten or so examples. If anyone wants to add this section back into the article, please explain why you feel it's needed, and why the names appear to be mismatched. Thanks, -- DoubleGrazing ( talk) 13:38, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
The names are not mismatched, and I have already explained why there are like that. Let us say your name is DoubleGrazing, and your dad’s name is BigGrazing. In that case, your kunya would not be Abu DoubleGrazing, It would be Abu BigGrazing (Father of BigGrazing): this is because in the Arab world, one would usually name their firstborn after their father.
This list then depicts famous father/sons. For example, Ali, the fourth Caliph, was the father of Hussein; therefore his kunya is Abu Hussein (literally, Father of Hussein). Then Hussein’s kunya would in turn be Abu Ali (Father of Ali). Same goes for Jacob and Joseph who are prophets in the Bible and the Quran: Yusuf is known as Abu Yaqub (Father of Jacob). Abu Yagub ( talk) 07:33, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
I believe that this list helps people understand the culture behind naming in the Arab world. Also, recently I read an article about a young boy named Abu Walid in Iraq, and immediately before his real name was revealed, I knew his name was Khalid. So I think this table can act as a helpful source for non-Arabs for identifying a person’s real name from their kunya. Abu Yagub ( talk) 07:43, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
(transfered from
Asbl's talk page)
hi! i saw your edits of the
kunya (arabic) article. thank's for the grammar fix, but the list of persons was actually intended for the kunya in general, and not as subsection of the previous part, since the article is not only about palestinian guerilla usage. could you please restore the list as it was? if not, there's other names that should be removed too. abu bakr the caliph didn't get the name while undercover, you know :-) best regards,
Arre
04:09, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
OK, I opened up the category for you, and added a couple of people (check out
Abu Jihad and
Yasser Arafat. The problem I am having is that I cannot control how the names appear, as they depend on how the names are listed in the article. For Example, Khalil al-Wazeer is simply listed as "Abu Jihad". I would prefer to list the person's name and in parenthesis the Kunya.
Have fun going through Wikipedia and finding more people to add to the category. --
Asbl
17:43, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
By the way, I dont think Abu Sayyaf belongs in the list, but I did not remove it because it clearly does not refer to a person who has a son named "Sayyaf". I do not know what to do with it. -- Asbl 05:30, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
It appears that the application of the name "Abu Ammar" to Yasser Arafat is no different than naming the group "Abu Sayyef", so I put them together.
Please Note: the way the article currently reads, the Prophet Muhammad had a companion named Abu Amar, sounds like they were a
homosexual couple. I am not Muslim, so I do not know who was Abu Ammar, and I am not sure what was meant by the word "companion" when it was originally written. --
Asbl
07:31, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
Abou Ammar (Y.Arafat) was called cause he was civil engineer in profession (arabic: mohandis ammar).
The article " Anthroponymy" includes the term teknonym, which according to Wiktionary is
Kunya would be an example of this, correct? — ˈzɪzɨvə ( talk) 18:23, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Would it be possible to add some examples of feminine kunya, from real life? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 37.135.20.229 ( talk) 11:28, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
I've removed the following 'examples', which were added years ago by an IP editor (created as straight body text in the original edit, and later on formatted as table):
"
The following are some examples of widely used Kunya in Arab world:
Child's birth name | Kunya |
---|---|
Khalīd | Abū Walīd |
Walīd | Abū Khalīd |
Alī | Abū Hussein |
Hussein | Abū Alī |
Muhammad | Abū Jassim/Qassim |
Yūsuf | Abū Ya'qūb |
Ya'qūb | Abū Yūsuf |
Khalīl | Abū Ibrahīm |
Ibrahīm | Abū Khalīl |
"
These are unreferenced, and almost certainly wrong (why would the kunya for Ali be Abū Hussein, and for Hussein Abū Alī, etc.?); this may have been just hoax or vandalism. I could have of course corrected the table, but I don't really think it adds much; the concept of a kunya should be fairy obvious by that stage in the article, without listing ten or so examples. If anyone wants to add this section back into the article, please explain why you feel it's needed, and why the names appear to be mismatched. Thanks, -- DoubleGrazing ( talk) 13:38, 1 August 2020 (UTC)
The names are not mismatched, and I have already explained why there are like that. Let us say your name is DoubleGrazing, and your dad’s name is BigGrazing. In that case, your kunya would not be Abu DoubleGrazing, It would be Abu BigGrazing (Father of BigGrazing): this is because in the Arab world, one would usually name their firstborn after their father.
This list then depicts famous father/sons. For example, Ali, the fourth Caliph, was the father of Hussein; therefore his kunya is Abu Hussein (literally, Father of Hussein). Then Hussein’s kunya would in turn be Abu Ali (Father of Ali). Same goes for Jacob and Joseph who are prophets in the Bible and the Quran: Yusuf is known as Abu Yaqub (Father of Jacob). Abu Yagub ( talk) 07:33, 4 August 2020 (UTC)
I believe that this list helps people understand the culture behind naming in the Arab world. Also, recently I read an article about a young boy named Abu Walid in Iraq, and immediately before his real name was revealed, I knew his name was Khalid. So I think this table can act as a helpful source for non-Arabs for identifying a person’s real name from their kunya. Abu Yagub ( talk) 07:43, 4 August 2020 (UTC)