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Kumbh Mela article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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The piping is per the IMOS rules and the use of "People" rather than "Famous people" or some variant is standard usage in IrlProj articles. Sarah777 ( talk) 15:39, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
@
Srabanta Deb: added the following to the lead without a citation: His sannyasashram was named “Santdas” because of the ordination of
Santdasji Kathiababa Maharaj, the saintly congregation of Braj. In the Kumbh Mela that was held after that, Santadas Kathia Baba was also anointed as Sri Mahant of the Nimbarka Sampradaya And Kumbh Mela President Mahant was given.
The editor also add a picture (see right).
09:28, 28 February 2023
There needs to be a citation for the text. This was requested, but not provided. The additions have therefore been deleted.-- Toddy1 (talk) 15:45, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
I think the red link should have been to a new article called: Santadasji Kathiababa.-- Toddy1 (talk) 15:49, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
Per wp:bold, revert, discuss, this is to question the reversion of my edit by Toddy1.
The article uses the tabloid term "
stampede" when the description shows clearly that it was a
crowd crush. The justification Toddy1 gives for reversion is that this is the term that the sources used. As a matter of principle, we report quotes verbatim but we have no obligation to replicate in
wp:wikivoice the style used by the colonial administration. For example, how can we justify a sentence like this: The British officials in co-operation with the native police also made attempts to improve the infrastructure, movement of pilgrims to avoid a stampede, detect sickness, and the sanitary conditions at the Melas.
Subtext: the local populace can be expected to behave like animals.
Perhaps the distinction between a stampede and a crowd crush is not appreciated? This report by Al Jazeera puts it very well:
The tragic event is being described as a crowd crush or surge, which is different from a stampede. ... A crowd crush is when people are packed in a confined space and keep pushing, causing the crowd to fall in a "domino effect" making it hard for people to get up again. The bigger the crowd, the stronger the effect of the crowd crush is. ... A stampede by contrast implies that people have space to run. It occurs when a larger group of people, which can be frightened or excited, run together in an uncontrolled way to escape from something.
Edwin Galea, professor of fire safety engineering at the University of Greenwich, England makes it even clearer:
Stampede is not only an incorrect term, it is a loaded word, as it assigns blame to the victims for behaving in an irrational, self-destructive, unthinking and uncaring manner, it's pure ignorance, and laziness [...] It gives the impression that it was a mindless crowd only caring about themselves, and they were prepared to crush people.
In virtually all these situations, this is not the case, and it is usually the authorities to blame for poor planning, poor design, poor control, poor policing and mismanagement.
The truth is that people are only directly crushed by others who have no choice in the matter, and the people who can choose don't know what is going on because they're too far away from the epicentre. [1]
The popular press may be satisfied with such sloppy use of words but wp:wikipedia is not a newspaper and we have higher standards. The events described were crowd crushes and it is collusion to call them stampedes. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 22:57, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
Conversely, Terrorism in India#2010 Varanasi blasts uses the term "stampede" correctly. -- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 23:05, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
The British officials in co-operation with the native police also made attempts to improve the infrastructure, movement of pilgrims to avoid a stampede, detect sickness, and the sanitary conditions at the Melas, the subtext is that the officials and the police acted responsibly with respect of planning, design, control, policing and management. -- Toddy1 (talk) 05:27, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
References
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Kumbh Mela article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives:
1Auto-archiving period: 30 days
![]() |
![]() | This article is written in Indian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, analysed, defence) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | This article was the subject of an educational assignment in 2014 Q3. Further details were available on the "Education Program:Duquesne University/UCOR 143 Global and Cultural Perspectives (Fall 2014)" page, which is now unavailable on the wiki. |
The piping is per the IMOS rules and the use of "People" rather than "Famous people" or some variant is standard usage in IrlProj articles. Sarah777 ( talk) 15:39, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
@
Srabanta Deb: added the following to the lead without a citation: His sannyasashram was named “Santdas” because of the ordination of
Santdasji Kathiababa Maharaj, the saintly congregation of Braj. In the Kumbh Mela that was held after that, Santadas Kathia Baba was also anointed as Sri Mahant of the Nimbarka Sampradaya And Kumbh Mela President Mahant was given.
The editor also add a picture (see right).
09:28, 28 February 2023
There needs to be a citation for the text. This was requested, but not provided. The additions have therefore been deleted.-- Toddy1 (talk) 15:45, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
I think the red link should have been to a new article called: Santadasji Kathiababa.-- Toddy1 (talk) 15:49, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
Per wp:bold, revert, discuss, this is to question the reversion of my edit by Toddy1.
The article uses the tabloid term "
stampede" when the description shows clearly that it was a
crowd crush. The justification Toddy1 gives for reversion is that this is the term that the sources used. As a matter of principle, we report quotes verbatim but we have no obligation to replicate in
wp:wikivoice the style used by the colonial administration. For example, how can we justify a sentence like this: The British officials in co-operation with the native police also made attempts to improve the infrastructure, movement of pilgrims to avoid a stampede, detect sickness, and the sanitary conditions at the Melas.
Subtext: the local populace can be expected to behave like animals.
Perhaps the distinction between a stampede and a crowd crush is not appreciated? This report by Al Jazeera puts it very well:
The tragic event is being described as a crowd crush or surge, which is different from a stampede. ... A crowd crush is when people are packed in a confined space and keep pushing, causing the crowd to fall in a "domino effect" making it hard for people to get up again. The bigger the crowd, the stronger the effect of the crowd crush is. ... A stampede by contrast implies that people have space to run. It occurs when a larger group of people, which can be frightened or excited, run together in an uncontrolled way to escape from something.
Edwin Galea, professor of fire safety engineering at the University of Greenwich, England makes it even clearer:
Stampede is not only an incorrect term, it is a loaded word, as it assigns blame to the victims for behaving in an irrational, self-destructive, unthinking and uncaring manner, it's pure ignorance, and laziness [...] It gives the impression that it was a mindless crowd only caring about themselves, and they were prepared to crush people.
In virtually all these situations, this is not the case, and it is usually the authorities to blame for poor planning, poor design, poor control, poor policing and mismanagement.
The truth is that people are only directly crushed by others who have no choice in the matter, and the people who can choose don't know what is going on because they're too far away from the epicentre. [1]
The popular press may be satisfied with such sloppy use of words but wp:wikipedia is not a newspaper and we have higher standards. The events described were crowd crushes and it is collusion to call them stampedes. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 22:57, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
Conversely, Terrorism in India#2010 Varanasi blasts uses the term "stampede" correctly. -- 𝕁𝕄𝔽 ( talk) 23:05, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
The British officials in co-operation with the native police also made attempts to improve the infrastructure, movement of pilgrims to avoid a stampede, detect sickness, and the sanitary conditions at the Melas, the subtext is that the officials and the police acted responsibly with respect of planning, design, control, policing and management. -- Toddy1 (talk) 05:27, 4 March 2024 (UTC)
References