![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
User:Hnsampat added some material on Truman that doesn't jibe with my other sources of information, but maybe it's right. Can anyone provide print or online sources on the following points:
Nothing about point 1 is mentioned the Margaret Truman bio, or in the WP Truman article. Re point 2, my impression was that even as president, he was initially extremely reluctant to act on civil rights, being a traditional Southern Democrat, and there certainly isn't anything in the Truman article to support the assertion that he had a strong civil rights record as a senator. -- Bcrowell 15:14, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
Truman's reluctance to join the Klan and his extensive civil rights record are both noted in David McCullough's 1992 Pulitizer Prize-winning biography Truman. His reluctance to join the Klan is noted on p. 164. Truman's record on civil rights as a Senator and the more extensive record as President are noted later in the biography (too many page references to list here). While he certainly spoke out about civil rights during his Senate years, most notably during a speech in Sedalia, MO, when he was running for re-election, I'm not sure how extensive his record was as a Senator. What I meant was that, collectively, his years in the Senate and as President resulted in the biggest advancement of civil rights since Abraham Lincoln (a fact that is noted by several historians and biographers, including McCullough, in the PBS documentary "Truman"). The McCullough biography refutes the notion of Truman being reluctant to act on civil rights. On the contrary, his actions on civil rights, beginning with the integration of the armed forces and him being the first President to speak to the NAACP, was politically quite damaging and he knew it. All of that being said, I'd like to put back my edits. Please let me know if you disagree. -- Hnsampat 15:28, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
I think we're converging on a good version here. I reinserted the rabbit and goat stuff, because I think it's important to paint a realistic picture of how the Klan stuff was intimately connected to machine politics. (The part about only hiring "goats" is documented in the Margaret Truman bio.) I deleted the part about the local Klan leader saying the Klan was "unalterably opposed" to Truman; I think that's pretty clear, considering that he got death threats from them.-- Bcrowell 17:08, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
Users User:crosstar, User:Thivierr and I have been going around in circles a little about the external link to
I feel that the link is simply an attempt by crosstar to promote "The Nationalist Movement" ( http://nationalist.org), whose logo his username refers to. The actual article he links to barely even mentions the KKK. I would like to avoid a revert war, but I feel the link is an inappropriate attempt at self-promotion, and I'd encourage crosstar instead to create an article on his organization, if he feels it's sufficiently notable.-- Bcrowell 17:17, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
I thought I should mention here that I've nominated these for deletion, since they had links in and out of this page, and they seemed to be attempts to sneak in the Klan's self-mythologizing and propaganda under the radar.-- Bcrowell 17:19, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
Hello. I'm new here so I'm not going to jump right in and edit anyones work right off the bat. I could be wrong and I really don't know how to completely do the edit thing yet. Here are the text changes I would like to recommend just to polish things up. What do you all think?
(Rework this Paragraph slightly.)
In an 1867 convention held in Nashville, the Klan was formalized as a national organization under a "Prescript" written by George Gordon, a former confederate brigadier-general. According to one oral report, Gordon went to General Nathan Bedford Forrest in Memphis, and told him about the new organization, to which Forrest replied, "That's a good thing; that's a damn good thing. We can use that to keep the niggers in their place."[2] Forrest went on to become the nationwide leader of the first Klan. A few weeks later, former slave trader and confederate general Nathan Bedford Forrest was selected as Grand Wizard, the Klan's national leader. The Prescript states as the Klan's purposes:[3]
New paragraph reads:
In an 1867 convention held in Nashville, the Klan was formalized as a national organization under a "Prescript" written by former Confederate Brigadier General George Gordon. The Prescript states as the Klan's intended purpose:[2]
"First: To protect the weak, the innocent (continue as originally written)
(Rework next Paragraph)
Stripped of obfuscation and attempts to protect themselves from accusations of treason, this is essentially a statement that the Klan's purpose was to resist Congressional Reconstruction. The word "oppressed," for example, clearly refers to oppression by the Union Army, and "peers" implies that white Southern property holders should be protected from carpetbaggers and uppity freedmen. During the Reconstruction the South was undergoing drastic changes to its social and political life. Whites saw this as a threat to their supremacy as a race and sought to end this process. Due to Congress enacting laws that promoted racial equality, southern whites could not turn to the law in order to regain their power through the Democratic Party.
New Paragraph reads:
Attempting to protect Klan members from accusations of treason, the prescript was essentially a statement that the Klan's purpose was to resist Congressional Reconstruction. The word "oppressed," for example, clearly referred to oppression by the Union Army, and "peers" implied that white Southern property holders needed protection from carpetbaggers and uppity freedmen. During the Reconstruction the South was undergoing drastic changes to its social and political life. Whites saw this as a threat to their supremacy as a race and sought to end this process. Due to Congress enacting laws that promoted racial equality, southern whites could not turn to the law in order to regain their power through the Democratic Party.
(Next Paragraph, No Changes)
(Proclamation Paragraph: No Changes except endnote link)
(Re-insert Forrest info here with a little re-wording to opening sentence) In a newspaper interview,[5] Forrest boasted that the Klan was a nationwide organization of 550,000 men, and that although he ...
New Paragraph starts:
According to one oral report, Gordon went to Memphis to see former Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest shortly after the 1867 Nashville convention and told him about the newly formed organization. Forrest remarked, "That's a good thing; that's a damn good thing. We can use that to keep the niggers in their place."[4] A few weeks later, former slave trader and Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest was selected as Grand Wizard, the Klan's national leader.
In a newspaper interview during the summer of 1868,[5] Forrest boasted that the Klan...... (Continue as originally wriitten)
(One more edit in end of next Paragragh)
Like Forrest's public denial of his membership in the Klan, his order abolishing it may have been intended merely to protect Forrest himself from blame for its activities.[6]
1. It isn't necessary to use Forrest's name twice in same sentence. Change to: Like Forrest's public denial of his membership in the Klan, his order abolishing it may have been intended merely to protect himself from blame for its activities.[6]
2. If you go with the proposed text changes, the endnote links need to be adjusted : [2] becomes [4], [3] become [2], [4]becomes[3],
3. Also, with this text I would change the order of the pictures: picture of Forrest moves down three spots, picture of 3 arrested Klansmen moves up one, cartoon picture of soldiers with flag goes to top of section (Forrests original spot) JoeNobody 17:42, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=29402&st=klux+klan&st1=
lots of other presidential quotes here
http://ccpl.lib.co.us/Images/KKKFerrisWheel.JPG
http://www.kkklan.com/negrok1.gif
http://ccpl.lib.co.us/Images/KKKFerrisWheel.JPG
http://www.kkklan.com/negrok1.gif
Duvall, John L. (1874-1962) — of Indianapolis, Marion County, Ind. Born in Tazewell County, Ill., November 29, 1874. Republican. Mayor of Indianapolis, Ind., 1926-27; resigned 1927. Convicted in 1927 of violating the state corrupt practices act by taking bribes from Ku Klux Klan leader D. C. Stephenson; sentenced to 30 days in jail, fined $1,000, and forced to resign as mayor. Died February 25, 1962. Interment at Crown Hill Cemetery, Indianapolis, Ind.
I have never studied this episode closely, but what I have read says that those who have studied the murder of Mary Phagan believe that the murderer was the local mill owner, who died in 1962. Who has the hardest facts?
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 |
User:Hnsampat added some material on Truman that doesn't jibe with my other sources of information, but maybe it's right. Can anyone provide print or online sources on the following points:
Nothing about point 1 is mentioned the Margaret Truman bio, or in the WP Truman article. Re point 2, my impression was that even as president, he was initially extremely reluctant to act on civil rights, being a traditional Southern Democrat, and there certainly isn't anything in the Truman article to support the assertion that he had a strong civil rights record as a senator. -- Bcrowell 15:14, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
Truman's reluctance to join the Klan and his extensive civil rights record are both noted in David McCullough's 1992 Pulitizer Prize-winning biography Truman. His reluctance to join the Klan is noted on p. 164. Truman's record on civil rights as a Senator and the more extensive record as President are noted later in the biography (too many page references to list here). While he certainly spoke out about civil rights during his Senate years, most notably during a speech in Sedalia, MO, when he was running for re-election, I'm not sure how extensive his record was as a Senator. What I meant was that, collectively, his years in the Senate and as President resulted in the biggest advancement of civil rights since Abraham Lincoln (a fact that is noted by several historians and biographers, including McCullough, in the PBS documentary "Truman"). The McCullough biography refutes the notion of Truman being reluctant to act on civil rights. On the contrary, his actions on civil rights, beginning with the integration of the armed forces and him being the first President to speak to the NAACP, was politically quite damaging and he knew it. All of that being said, I'd like to put back my edits. Please let me know if you disagree. -- Hnsampat 15:28, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
I think we're converging on a good version here. I reinserted the rabbit and goat stuff, because I think it's important to paint a realistic picture of how the Klan stuff was intimately connected to machine politics. (The part about only hiring "goats" is documented in the Margaret Truman bio.) I deleted the part about the local Klan leader saying the Klan was "unalterably opposed" to Truman; I think that's pretty clear, considering that he got death threats from them.-- Bcrowell 17:08, 12 July 2005 (UTC)
Users User:crosstar, User:Thivierr and I have been going around in circles a little about the external link to
I feel that the link is simply an attempt by crosstar to promote "The Nationalist Movement" ( http://nationalist.org), whose logo his username refers to. The actual article he links to barely even mentions the KKK. I would like to avoid a revert war, but I feel the link is an inappropriate attempt at self-promotion, and I'd encourage crosstar instead to create an article on his organization, if he feels it's sufficiently notable.-- Bcrowell 17:17, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
I thought I should mention here that I've nominated these for deletion, since they had links in and out of this page, and they seemed to be attempts to sneak in the Klan's self-mythologizing and propaganda under the radar.-- Bcrowell 17:19, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
Hello. I'm new here so I'm not going to jump right in and edit anyones work right off the bat. I could be wrong and I really don't know how to completely do the edit thing yet. Here are the text changes I would like to recommend just to polish things up. What do you all think?
(Rework this Paragraph slightly.)
In an 1867 convention held in Nashville, the Klan was formalized as a national organization under a "Prescript" written by George Gordon, a former confederate brigadier-general. According to one oral report, Gordon went to General Nathan Bedford Forrest in Memphis, and told him about the new organization, to which Forrest replied, "That's a good thing; that's a damn good thing. We can use that to keep the niggers in their place."[2] Forrest went on to become the nationwide leader of the first Klan. A few weeks later, former slave trader and confederate general Nathan Bedford Forrest was selected as Grand Wizard, the Klan's national leader. The Prescript states as the Klan's purposes:[3]
New paragraph reads:
In an 1867 convention held in Nashville, the Klan was formalized as a national organization under a "Prescript" written by former Confederate Brigadier General George Gordon. The Prescript states as the Klan's intended purpose:[2]
"First: To protect the weak, the innocent (continue as originally written)
(Rework next Paragraph)
Stripped of obfuscation and attempts to protect themselves from accusations of treason, this is essentially a statement that the Klan's purpose was to resist Congressional Reconstruction. The word "oppressed," for example, clearly refers to oppression by the Union Army, and "peers" implies that white Southern property holders should be protected from carpetbaggers and uppity freedmen. During the Reconstruction the South was undergoing drastic changes to its social and political life. Whites saw this as a threat to their supremacy as a race and sought to end this process. Due to Congress enacting laws that promoted racial equality, southern whites could not turn to the law in order to regain their power through the Democratic Party.
New Paragraph reads:
Attempting to protect Klan members from accusations of treason, the prescript was essentially a statement that the Klan's purpose was to resist Congressional Reconstruction. The word "oppressed," for example, clearly referred to oppression by the Union Army, and "peers" implied that white Southern property holders needed protection from carpetbaggers and uppity freedmen. During the Reconstruction the South was undergoing drastic changes to its social and political life. Whites saw this as a threat to their supremacy as a race and sought to end this process. Due to Congress enacting laws that promoted racial equality, southern whites could not turn to the law in order to regain their power through the Democratic Party.
(Next Paragraph, No Changes)
(Proclamation Paragraph: No Changes except endnote link)
(Re-insert Forrest info here with a little re-wording to opening sentence) In a newspaper interview,[5] Forrest boasted that the Klan was a nationwide organization of 550,000 men, and that although he ...
New Paragraph starts:
According to one oral report, Gordon went to Memphis to see former Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest shortly after the 1867 Nashville convention and told him about the newly formed organization. Forrest remarked, "That's a good thing; that's a damn good thing. We can use that to keep the niggers in their place."[4] A few weeks later, former slave trader and Confederate General Nathan Bedford Forrest was selected as Grand Wizard, the Klan's national leader.
In a newspaper interview during the summer of 1868,[5] Forrest boasted that the Klan...... (Continue as originally wriitten)
(One more edit in end of next Paragragh)
Like Forrest's public denial of his membership in the Klan, his order abolishing it may have been intended merely to protect Forrest himself from blame for its activities.[6]
1. It isn't necessary to use Forrest's name twice in same sentence. Change to: Like Forrest's public denial of his membership in the Klan, his order abolishing it may have been intended merely to protect himself from blame for its activities.[6]
2. If you go with the proposed text changes, the endnote links need to be adjusted : [2] becomes [4], [3] become [2], [4]becomes[3],
3. Also, with this text I would change the order of the pictures: picture of Forrest moves down three spots, picture of 3 arrested Klansmen moves up one, cartoon picture of soldiers with flag goes to top of section (Forrests original spot) JoeNobody 17:42, 24 July 2005 (UTC)
http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/index.php?pid=29402&st=klux+klan&st1=
lots of other presidential quotes here
http://ccpl.lib.co.us/Images/KKKFerrisWheel.JPG
http://www.kkklan.com/negrok1.gif
http://ccpl.lib.co.us/Images/KKKFerrisWheel.JPG
http://www.kkklan.com/negrok1.gif
Duvall, John L. (1874-1962) — of Indianapolis, Marion County, Ind. Born in Tazewell County, Ill., November 29, 1874. Republican. Mayor of Indianapolis, Ind., 1926-27; resigned 1927. Convicted in 1927 of violating the state corrupt practices act by taking bribes from Ku Klux Klan leader D. C. Stephenson; sentenced to 30 days in jail, fined $1,000, and forced to resign as mayor. Died February 25, 1962. Interment at Crown Hill Cemetery, Indianapolis, Ind.
I have never studied this episode closely, but what I have read says that those who have studied the murder of Mary Phagan believe that the murderer was the local mill owner, who died in 1962. Who has the hardest facts?