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So that we can get a better idea of the effect of the rules, could someone who knows Hebrew update the article to include either literal (vowelless) and complete (vowelful) transliterations, or Hebrew with niqqud and complete transliterations, or some other combination thereof? It would be appreciated! —
Felix the Cassowary 14:27, 21 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Something like
this?Dan☺ 19:00, 21 April 2009 (UTC)reply
That was what I had in mind, thanks. Sorry for the belated thanks. —
Felix the Cassowary 13:46, 6 June 2009 (UTC)reply
Your belated thanks inspired me...
Dan☺ 22:48, 6 June 2009 (UTC)reply
The "h" is absolutely wrong. The word ends with a silent
aleph: nothing at all justifies transcribing the word with an "h". If at all, the article should be moved to
Ktiv Hasar Niqqud, the standard Hebrew term. OR
ktiv malé, also a standard form of transcription. For standard transcription see
hebrew academy website.
Dan☺ 00:05, 19 March 2010 (UTC)reply
I agree with Dan and support "Ktiv Male", without "h", as the transliteration for כתיב מלא.
The terms "Ktiv Male" and "Ktiv Haser" are very problematic for other reasons and all the related articles should be thoroughly rewritten and restructured, but that's a different issue. --
Amir E. Aharoni (
talk) 13:28, 19 March 2010 (UTC)reply
No problem. Don't take it too hard :) --
Amir E. Aharoni (
talk) 13:28, 19 March 2010 (UTC)reply
You are right about the transliteration, but the problem is that 'male' is an english word, and it's very very confusing to almost everyone who reads it - even those who read hebrew. I'd rather have an inaccurate transliteration, but avoid confusing people. And 'eh' is no so bad anyway, look at the words eh or feh which have the same pronunciation as מלא.
Ariel. (
talk) 05:46, 24 March 2010 (UTC)reply
So are the names of letters bet, he and shin.
In fact, i'd rather not have "Ktiv male/haser/hasar niqqud/etc/" as articles titles. The best solution is to have the article
Hebrew spelling deal mostly with ktiv hasar niqqud, which is the most common spelling (it should, of course, mention that deviations from it, like תוכנית, מינהל and איתך are common, too) and to have the article
Niqqud deal with ktiv menuqad. A separate article about ktiv haser is not needed.
This way "ktiv male" and the other Hebrew words will be clearly marked as transliteration from Hebrew and the confusion between the Hebrew and English meanings male will go away. --
Amir E. Aharoni (
talk) 09:15, 24 March 2010 (UTC)reply
(Again) whether or not as a title,
this legitimates "malé", which eliminates confusion with English "male". Readers of English should be familiar with usage of accents, e.g. "breathèd".
Dan☺ 01:18, 26 March 2010 (UTC)reply
confusion
"The terms "Ktiv Male" and "Ktiv Haser" are very problematic for other reasons and all the related articles should be thoroughly rewritten and restructured, but that's a different issue. --
Amir E. Aharoni (
talk) 13:28, 19 March 2010 (UTC)"reply
This apparently went unnoticed. The article starts of by saying that ""spelling lacking niqqud" ... is ... colloquially known as ktiv male ... "full spelling"" and thus that they are the same thing and then explains how they are different.
I am actually confused by what you wrote :) What is the change that you are suggesting? —
Ynhockey(
Talk) 11:47, 12 September 2013 (UTC)reply
This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Writing systems, a
WikiProject interested in improving the encyclopaedic coverage and content of articles relating to
writing systems on Wikipedia. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by
the project page and/or leave a query at
the project’s talk page.Writing systemsWikipedia:WikiProject Writing systemsTemplate:WikiProject Writing systemsWriting system articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Judaism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
Judaism-related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.JudaismWikipedia:WikiProject JudaismTemplate:WikiProject JudaismJudaism articles
So that we can get a better idea of the effect of the rules, could someone who knows Hebrew update the article to include either literal (vowelless) and complete (vowelful) transliterations, or Hebrew with niqqud and complete transliterations, or some other combination thereof? It would be appreciated! —
Felix the Cassowary 14:27, 21 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Something like
this?Dan☺ 19:00, 21 April 2009 (UTC)reply
That was what I had in mind, thanks. Sorry for the belated thanks. —
Felix the Cassowary 13:46, 6 June 2009 (UTC)reply
Your belated thanks inspired me...
Dan☺ 22:48, 6 June 2009 (UTC)reply
The "h" is absolutely wrong. The word ends with a silent
aleph: nothing at all justifies transcribing the word with an "h". If at all, the article should be moved to
Ktiv Hasar Niqqud, the standard Hebrew term. OR
ktiv malé, also a standard form of transcription. For standard transcription see
hebrew academy website.
Dan☺ 00:05, 19 March 2010 (UTC)reply
I agree with Dan and support "Ktiv Male", without "h", as the transliteration for כתיב מלא.
The terms "Ktiv Male" and "Ktiv Haser" are very problematic for other reasons and all the related articles should be thoroughly rewritten and restructured, but that's a different issue. --
Amir E. Aharoni (
talk) 13:28, 19 March 2010 (UTC)reply
No problem. Don't take it too hard :) --
Amir E. Aharoni (
talk) 13:28, 19 March 2010 (UTC)reply
You are right about the transliteration, but the problem is that 'male' is an english word, and it's very very confusing to almost everyone who reads it - even those who read hebrew. I'd rather have an inaccurate transliteration, but avoid confusing people. And 'eh' is no so bad anyway, look at the words eh or feh which have the same pronunciation as מלא.
Ariel. (
talk) 05:46, 24 March 2010 (UTC)reply
So are the names of letters bet, he and shin.
In fact, i'd rather not have "Ktiv male/haser/hasar niqqud/etc/" as articles titles. The best solution is to have the article
Hebrew spelling deal mostly with ktiv hasar niqqud, which is the most common spelling (it should, of course, mention that deviations from it, like תוכנית, מינהל and איתך are common, too) and to have the article
Niqqud deal with ktiv menuqad. A separate article about ktiv haser is not needed.
This way "ktiv male" and the other Hebrew words will be clearly marked as transliteration from Hebrew and the confusion between the Hebrew and English meanings male will go away. --
Amir E. Aharoni (
talk) 09:15, 24 March 2010 (UTC)reply
(Again) whether or not as a title,
this legitimates "malé", which eliminates confusion with English "male". Readers of English should be familiar with usage of accents, e.g. "breathèd".
Dan☺ 01:18, 26 March 2010 (UTC)reply
confusion
"The terms "Ktiv Male" and "Ktiv Haser" are very problematic for other reasons and all the related articles should be thoroughly rewritten and restructured, but that's a different issue. --
Amir E. Aharoni (
talk) 13:28, 19 March 2010 (UTC)"reply
This apparently went unnoticed. The article starts of by saying that ""spelling lacking niqqud" ... is ... colloquially known as ktiv male ... "full spelling"" and thus that they are the same thing and then explains how they are different.
I am actually confused by what you wrote :) What is the change that you are suggesting? —
Ynhockey(
Talk) 11:47, 12 September 2013 (UTC)reply