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List of Krav Maga techniques was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 15 January 2011 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Krav Maga. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
The one is a subset of the other. There is insufficient material for two articles, and unlikely to be on the future. Fiddle Faddle 13:45, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
I wonder why it is "Krav Maga" (which seems like a person's name) and not "krav maga"? -- Spiros71 ( talk) 08:55, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
I would suggest that it has always been written in title case as Krav Maga is the title of the system? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.72.119 ( talk) 09:55, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
The Criticism section is extremely innapropriate and not at all to Wikipedia standards. It is cited incorrectly and is little above the tirade of an MMA fan who thinks krav maga is "lame". I don't have the knowledge of the subject to fix. Mailman9 (talk) 16:56, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
http://www.figmma.it/mixed-martial-arts/che-cosa-sono-le-mma.html MMA (born in brazil, and originally called Vale Tudo, a sport were fighter from different stiles fight each other to see which martial arts or combat sports was the most efficient) have exposed the martial arts-scam, specifically all the martial arts that make people belive they can learn to defend them self without ever compete. The first MMA competitions (fought bare nuckles and with less restrictive rules than today) demonstrate that all the martial arts that do not include sports competition (such as krav maga) are totally ineffective in a real fight situation, based on the principle that: "You cannot learn how to fight without fighting". As a matter fact there was a total domination of the martial arts and combat sports that involve sports competition (Lotta, Grappling, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, luta livre brasiliana, sambo, judo, sanda, muay thai, kick boxing, boxe, karate kumite, ecc...) compared to the martial arts that don't do it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.40.115.168 ( talk) 19:34, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
In defense of Krav Maga as a fughting system:-
An MMA fighter saying that Krav Maga is ineffective is akin to a 50 cal. machine-gun opperator saying an UZI is ineffective. Of course a well drilled, extrememly well trained MMA Fighter would happily take on a hobby Krav Maga student in the same was as my Krav Maga instructor (level E3 - 3rd dan) would happily destroy a hobby MMA Fighter. How would a hobby MMA fighter fare against multiple attackers, knife attacks, baseball bat attacks or being held at gun-point? It's very much a case horses for courses. I'm sure we can all agree that a cucumber makes a pretty sucky carrot! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.72.119 ( talk) 10:13, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
Short answer to 'why are so many special forces using it'. It's simple, they aren't. At best they've trialed it through seminars or short demos but outside of Israel no one has actually adopted it as an 'official system', its pure myth that special forces or law enforcement communities are taught it. Krav Maga fanboys have been promoting that rubbish for years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.140.65.7 ( talk) 22:44, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
It appears that this section has been deleted. I think that to avoid neutrality and undue weighting issues we should add a reliably sourced section. Emir of Wikipedia ( talk) 15:33, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
To whomever it may concern: I got linked to this article via Wikipedia:Deleted articles with freaky titles where the compiler commented that Jew-jitzu should really be a redirect to here. -- 80.187.110.67 ( talk) 09:32, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
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There has been some conflict over what martial arts the parentage of Krav Maga should consist of. My proposal for what should be considered the base line for confirming the validity of information within this section is:
1. Obviously, there should be a source
2. Martial artists use a system of validity called a linage. That means a source should include who incorporated another martial art into the system and where did that person study the martial art.
3. there are many different variations of Krav Maga spread across many different Federations of Krav Maga. As the Israel Defense Force is the originating organisation of Krav Maga it should be considered the standard of traditional Krav Maga.
4. The history section should be change to reflect any changes in the parenthood martial arts.
If a change you make to the parenthood martial arts is reverted and you believe that you have met this standard or you disagree with this standard please use the talk page to discus any disagreements. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.255.157.149 ( talk) 14:03, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
I'm going to be shaking my head about this all day...I've been training with Alliance Krav Maga for 4 years now, and am with an affiliate in MD. I don't want to make this about school v. school, but that picture is just NOT representative of Krav. There are very few high kicks toward knives. Krav is all about simple techniques that don't require a lot of practice to get to 90%, and can be used under stress. It's also pretty common-sense-based. It's probably obvious, but NEVER kick toward a knife. *shaking head* I'm not saying that there's some school where this is in their system. I do believe that it's not a smart technique to teach and definitely a dumb technique to use if someone ever attacks you with a knife. But from a pure representation perspective it's just not representative. I'm sure there are better "flashy" images that could be used. If I find one I'll recommend it.
I also worry that it will make people not want to do Krav. Maybe I'm over-thinking it, but here's the context. I forwarded this page to some colleagues, and had to write the whole disclaimer above.
What do others think? That's an excellent high kick, of course :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mattjans ( talk • contribs) 16:24, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
Correct, this image is not representative of Krav Maga. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.179.5.214 ( talk) 20:47, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
The high kick defense against knife is not appropriate for the following reasons:
·Krav Maga as a system that "could be learned quickly and would be effective regardless of age, gender, athletic attributes, or body type," and "Krav Maga does not require years of training to achieve self-defense proficiency" - (Krav Maga for Beginners, Darren Levine, John Whiteman, Ryan Hoover, 2009, EISBN 978-1-569-75537-2). A high kick defense against knife requires years of training to mastery and goes against these principles.
-In Complete Krav Maga (Darren Levine and John Whitman, ISBN 978-1-61243-577-0, 2006) the authors state "Techniques should be movements based on natural instincts", "Techniques must be accessible to the average person, not just athletes", "Krav Maga is heavy on the 'martial' and not much into the 'art'." A high kick like this is not based on natural instincts, not accessible to the average person, and falls on the more artist side of the spectrum.
-The knife defense against downward stab (ice pick stab) as illustrated in Complete Krav Maga uses a "360 Defense to attack the knife hand". This is illustrated in the black and white photo in Israel and not the high kick photo. The high kick defense is not illustrated anywhere in this book.
-This is not limited to Krav Maga World Wide. John Whitman is now the head of Krav Maga Alliance and there is more evidence below.
-The overwhelming majority of Google results for the search "krav maga defense against overhand knife" (5/26/18, USA, Incognito) shows the 360 overhand knife defense. This is true for both images and videos.
-Krav Maga World Wide's level 4 curriculum website at https://kravmagatraining.com/services/level-4/ for kick defense against knife states "The general rule for kick defenses against the knife is that when the knife is low, kick high; when the knife is high, kick low." The picture of a high kick against a high knife attack is counter to this principle.
-The Krav Maga World Wide level 5 website shows the 360 defense against knife, not a high kick defense against knife. https://kravmagatraining.com/services/level-5/
-The blog of Urban Tactical Krav Maga also disparages high kicks https://utkmblog.com/2017/02/16/the-application-of-kicks-in-krav-maga/. It cites the same principles of being accessible to the average person and based on natural instincts "Sure, if you train for years it is possible to throw accurate and well-balanced high kicks, but the reality is that you take a huge risk again.", "Unfortunately, the reality is that high kicks take a long time to train and are not realistic for everyone."
-The Amazon series Krav Maga: High Kicks for Reality Based Self Defense (Part Two: Knowing How and When to Use Them) ( https://www.amazon.com/Krav-Maga-Reality-Defense-Knowing/dp/B01H2JQ3WA) shows a front push kick defense against a high knife.
The evidence shows that the 360 defense against knife as illustrated in the black and white Israeli picture most closely matches the principles of Krav Maga and is more prominently taught. The 360 defense is taught at the beginner levels of all Krav Maga schools. A high roundhouse defense against an overhead knife attack may be a high-level technique at some schools, and may be effective, but it is not appropriate for the Infobox picture and if included in this Wikipedia page, should be displayed further below.
The infobox must present "Materially relevant to the subject." which is most appropriate for the 360 defense. A high kick against a high knife illustrates a "Trivial detail" of Krav Maga and it is not appropriate for the infobox.
I just semi-protected the page to stop an edit war about a serial comma. The relevant guideline is MOS:SERIAL. Both having the comma and not having the comma is grammatically correct in this context. If there are specific reasons to have (or not have) the serial comma in this specific instance, please provide them here. Generally articles should not be changed regarding such issues unless there's a good reason - personal preference is not a good reason. Huon ( talk) 00:16, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
I think a list of current federations/organizations is important to include, as it was, the article (falsely) implied that IKMF was the only game in town, and ignores recent history that affects the development of KM. Some anonymous user reverted this, calling it "advertising". I undid the reversion. If you have a beef with this, discuss it here before vandalizing my contributions, please. Ketil ( talk) 12:47, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
The eye-opening article by Guy Mor The Case for the Recognition of Krav-Maga as Part of the Intangible Cultural Heritage of Israel describes the roots of Krav Maga also before Imi Lichenfeld. That should be added to the History section. ( https://www.researchgate.net/publication/332558997_The_Case_for_the_Recognition_of_Krav-Maga_as_Part_of_the_Intangible_Cultural_Heritage_of_Israel) Takadimitakida ( talk) 10:29, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
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List of Krav Maga techniques was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 15 January 2011 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Krav Maga. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
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The one is a subset of the other. There is insufficient material for two articles, and unlikely to be on the future. Fiddle Faddle 13:45, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
I wonder why it is "Krav Maga" (which seems like a person's name) and not "krav maga"? -- Spiros71 ( talk) 08:55, 8 February 2014 (UTC)
I would suggest that it has always been written in title case as Krav Maga is the title of the system? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.72.119 ( talk) 09:55, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
The Criticism section is extremely innapropriate and not at all to Wikipedia standards. It is cited incorrectly and is little above the tirade of an MMA fan who thinks krav maga is "lame". I don't have the knowledge of the subject to fix. Mailman9 (talk) 16:56, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
http://www.figmma.it/mixed-martial-arts/che-cosa-sono-le-mma.html MMA (born in brazil, and originally called Vale Tudo, a sport were fighter from different stiles fight each other to see which martial arts or combat sports was the most efficient) have exposed the martial arts-scam, specifically all the martial arts that make people belive they can learn to defend them self without ever compete. The first MMA competitions (fought bare nuckles and with less restrictive rules than today) demonstrate that all the martial arts that do not include sports competition (such as krav maga) are totally ineffective in a real fight situation, based on the principle that: "You cannot learn how to fight without fighting". As a matter fact there was a total domination of the martial arts and combat sports that involve sports competition (Lotta, Grappling, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, luta livre brasiliana, sambo, judo, sanda, muay thai, kick boxing, boxe, karate kumite, ecc...) compared to the martial arts that don't do it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.40.115.168 ( talk) 19:34, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
In defense of Krav Maga as a fughting system:-
An MMA fighter saying that Krav Maga is ineffective is akin to a 50 cal. machine-gun opperator saying an UZI is ineffective. Of course a well drilled, extrememly well trained MMA Fighter would happily take on a hobby Krav Maga student in the same was as my Krav Maga instructor (level E3 - 3rd dan) would happily destroy a hobby MMA Fighter. How would a hobby MMA fighter fare against multiple attackers, knife attacks, baseball bat attacks or being held at gun-point? It's very much a case horses for courses. I'm sure we can all agree that a cucumber makes a pretty sucky carrot! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.152.72.119 ( talk) 10:13, 30 October 2015 (UTC)
Short answer to 'why are so many special forces using it'. It's simple, they aren't. At best they've trialed it through seminars or short demos but outside of Israel no one has actually adopted it as an 'official system', its pure myth that special forces or law enforcement communities are taught it. Krav Maga fanboys have been promoting that rubbish for years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.140.65.7 ( talk) 22:44, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
It appears that this section has been deleted. I think that to avoid neutrality and undue weighting issues we should add a reliably sourced section. Emir of Wikipedia ( talk) 15:33, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
To whomever it may concern: I got linked to this article via Wikipedia:Deleted articles with freaky titles where the compiler commented that Jew-jitzu should really be a redirect to here. -- 80.187.110.67 ( talk) 09:32, 16 June 2015 (UTC)
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There has been some conflict over what martial arts the parentage of Krav Maga should consist of. My proposal for what should be considered the base line for confirming the validity of information within this section is:
1. Obviously, there should be a source
2. Martial artists use a system of validity called a linage. That means a source should include who incorporated another martial art into the system and where did that person study the martial art.
3. there are many different variations of Krav Maga spread across many different Federations of Krav Maga. As the Israel Defense Force is the originating organisation of Krav Maga it should be considered the standard of traditional Krav Maga.
4. The history section should be change to reflect any changes in the parenthood martial arts.
If a change you make to the parenthood martial arts is reverted and you believe that you have met this standard or you disagree with this standard please use the talk page to discus any disagreements. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.255.157.149 ( talk) 14:03, 14 December 2017 (UTC)
I'm going to be shaking my head about this all day...I've been training with Alliance Krav Maga for 4 years now, and am with an affiliate in MD. I don't want to make this about school v. school, but that picture is just NOT representative of Krav. There are very few high kicks toward knives. Krav is all about simple techniques that don't require a lot of practice to get to 90%, and can be used under stress. It's also pretty common-sense-based. It's probably obvious, but NEVER kick toward a knife. *shaking head* I'm not saying that there's some school where this is in their system. I do believe that it's not a smart technique to teach and definitely a dumb technique to use if someone ever attacks you with a knife. But from a pure representation perspective it's just not representative. I'm sure there are better "flashy" images that could be used. If I find one I'll recommend it.
I also worry that it will make people not want to do Krav. Maybe I'm over-thinking it, but here's the context. I forwarded this page to some colleagues, and had to write the whole disclaimer above.
What do others think? That's an excellent high kick, of course :) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mattjans ( talk • contribs) 16:24, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
Correct, this image is not representative of Krav Maga. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.179.5.214 ( talk) 20:47, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
The high kick defense against knife is not appropriate for the following reasons:
·Krav Maga as a system that "could be learned quickly and would be effective regardless of age, gender, athletic attributes, or body type," and "Krav Maga does not require years of training to achieve self-defense proficiency" - (Krav Maga for Beginners, Darren Levine, John Whiteman, Ryan Hoover, 2009, EISBN 978-1-569-75537-2). A high kick defense against knife requires years of training to mastery and goes against these principles.
-In Complete Krav Maga (Darren Levine and John Whitman, ISBN 978-1-61243-577-0, 2006) the authors state "Techniques should be movements based on natural instincts", "Techniques must be accessible to the average person, not just athletes", "Krav Maga is heavy on the 'martial' and not much into the 'art'." A high kick like this is not based on natural instincts, not accessible to the average person, and falls on the more artist side of the spectrum.
-The knife defense against downward stab (ice pick stab) as illustrated in Complete Krav Maga uses a "360 Defense to attack the knife hand". This is illustrated in the black and white photo in Israel and not the high kick photo. The high kick defense is not illustrated anywhere in this book.
-This is not limited to Krav Maga World Wide. John Whitman is now the head of Krav Maga Alliance and there is more evidence below.
-The overwhelming majority of Google results for the search "krav maga defense against overhand knife" (5/26/18, USA, Incognito) shows the 360 overhand knife defense. This is true for both images and videos.
-Krav Maga World Wide's level 4 curriculum website at https://kravmagatraining.com/services/level-4/ for kick defense against knife states "The general rule for kick defenses against the knife is that when the knife is low, kick high; when the knife is high, kick low." The picture of a high kick against a high knife attack is counter to this principle.
-The Krav Maga World Wide level 5 website shows the 360 defense against knife, not a high kick defense against knife. https://kravmagatraining.com/services/level-5/
-The blog of Urban Tactical Krav Maga also disparages high kicks https://utkmblog.com/2017/02/16/the-application-of-kicks-in-krav-maga/. It cites the same principles of being accessible to the average person and based on natural instincts "Sure, if you train for years it is possible to throw accurate and well-balanced high kicks, but the reality is that you take a huge risk again.", "Unfortunately, the reality is that high kicks take a long time to train and are not realistic for everyone."
-The Amazon series Krav Maga: High Kicks for Reality Based Self Defense (Part Two: Knowing How and When to Use Them) ( https://www.amazon.com/Krav-Maga-Reality-Defense-Knowing/dp/B01H2JQ3WA) shows a front push kick defense against a high knife.
The evidence shows that the 360 defense against knife as illustrated in the black and white Israeli picture most closely matches the principles of Krav Maga and is more prominently taught. The 360 defense is taught at the beginner levels of all Krav Maga schools. A high roundhouse defense against an overhead knife attack may be a high-level technique at some schools, and may be effective, but it is not appropriate for the Infobox picture and if included in this Wikipedia page, should be displayed further below.
The infobox must present "Materially relevant to the subject." which is most appropriate for the 360 defense. A high kick against a high knife illustrates a "Trivial detail" of Krav Maga and it is not appropriate for the infobox.
I just semi-protected the page to stop an edit war about a serial comma. The relevant guideline is MOS:SERIAL. Both having the comma and not having the comma is grammatically correct in this context. If there are specific reasons to have (or not have) the serial comma in this specific instance, please provide them here. Generally articles should not be changed regarding such issues unless there's a good reason - personal preference is not a good reason. Huon ( talk) 00:16, 4 February 2019 (UTC)
I think a list of current federations/organizations is important to include, as it was, the article (falsely) implied that IKMF was the only game in town, and ignores recent history that affects the development of KM. Some anonymous user reverted this, calling it "advertising". I undid the reversion. If you have a beef with this, discuss it here before vandalizing my contributions, please. Ketil ( talk) 12:47, 25 February 2020 (UTC)
The eye-opening article by Guy Mor The Case for the Recognition of Krav-Maga as Part of the Intangible Cultural Heritage of Israel describes the roots of Krav Maga also before Imi Lichenfeld. That should be added to the History section. ( https://www.researchgate.net/publication/332558997_The_Case_for_the_Recognition_of_Krav-Maga_as_Part_of_the_Intangible_Cultural_Heritage_of_Israel) Takadimitakida ( talk) 10:29, 23 October 2023 (UTC)