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The directions in WP:NC are only telling how to name articles about places, but it also says in several links that different names should be mentioned first thing in the beginning of the articles. Some browsing around WP shows that in most places where there are several names, they are also mentioned; the article about the Spanish city Alicante directly tells the name also in Catalan, the Inuit town Qaanaaq has a name in English, the German region Holstein has a Danish name, although the region never have belonged to Denmark (though it nabours), a lot of Irish places have names in Gaelic (there is actually a separate direction page on how to name Irish places) etc. In this case the name of the article is, as stated in the instructions, the official present name of the city, transscribed from cyrillic letters, that is Koporye.
The region, Ingria, has been inhabited with Finnish tribes since prehistoric times, as the distinguished user Ghirlandajo himself tells in the article about Kingisepp (where actually also is told the Finnish name, Я´ма, though transscribed it comes out as Yama instead of Jaama). See also the russian article Ингерманландия, chapter about Народы. Ingria belonged to Sweden 1609 - 1721, and also 1580 - 1595, (The latter is ignored in the Russian article) and therefor in a way to Finland, as Finland was a part of Sweden by that time. The Finnish tribes lived there until the Sovjet leaders gradually had them expelled all around the Union, mostly to Siberia. The last ones moved to Finland when the president of Finland (by that time Mauno Koivisto, as far as I can recall) granted them Finnish nationality in the 1980-90's. Thus geographical names in Finnish are a relevant part of the history of the region, and can't be neglected, whether you like it or not. Unless you come with some very heavy evidence that I shouldn't, and in that case also verified by some administrator, I will restore the name Kaprio in it within a few days. Islander(Scandinavia) 23:28, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
By the way, only a historical names must be given, within the phrase "also historically known as Caporye in Swedish" or something similar. Other names are given to help browsing/reading historical docs related to the place in question, not for nationalistic purposes of "proving" who owned what. `' mikkanarxi 15:54, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
One only wonder why all marks to Vatja tribe has been deleted. The original inhabitants of the area. The historical name of Kaprio for Russian Koporje have existed more than 1.000 years as well as Jaama (Jamburg), Kukkosi, Kattila, Pihkaala. Ilmola, Pihlaava, Koppana etc with Sumajoki and Kaprionlahti (Bay of Kaprio). I do not understand why some persons who writes these articles have a tendency to classify all Finnish tribes history of c. 800 - 1323 as "Fiction with no prove".
Despite written documents starts only appear in 1200´s, mostly in Latin, the heritage is well documented in singed folklores. As an example of these, although being from early 1700 during the Great Northern War, is a singed version by an peasant womon who saw personally what happened and created a folklore named "Sota Narvan teinoilla" which is today the best document of what really happened there.
Lack of understanding Finnish and Estonian by the writers is clearly shown in case that they have not created any, even stub, article of Tver (Tihveri) Karelians ones numbered to 145.000. Even in 1926 their number is 140.567 persons who classifyd themselves as Karelians, many of them originally Orthodox Inkerikkos (Izhoras) who moved from Inkeri (Ingermanland) in 1617 - 1656 to Novgorod and Tver (Tihveri) areas in Russia.
JN above edit was entered May 20'th 2007 from IP address 88.115.126.189
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The directions in WP:NC are only telling how to name articles about places, but it also says in several links that different names should be mentioned first thing in the beginning of the articles. Some browsing around WP shows that in most places where there are several names, they are also mentioned; the article about the Spanish city Alicante directly tells the name also in Catalan, the Inuit town Qaanaaq has a name in English, the German region Holstein has a Danish name, although the region never have belonged to Denmark (though it nabours), a lot of Irish places have names in Gaelic (there is actually a separate direction page on how to name Irish places) etc. In this case the name of the article is, as stated in the instructions, the official present name of the city, transscribed from cyrillic letters, that is Koporye.
The region, Ingria, has been inhabited with Finnish tribes since prehistoric times, as the distinguished user Ghirlandajo himself tells in the article about Kingisepp (where actually also is told the Finnish name, Я´ма, though transscribed it comes out as Yama instead of Jaama). See also the russian article Ингерманландия, chapter about Народы. Ingria belonged to Sweden 1609 - 1721, and also 1580 - 1595, (The latter is ignored in the Russian article) and therefor in a way to Finland, as Finland was a part of Sweden by that time. The Finnish tribes lived there until the Sovjet leaders gradually had them expelled all around the Union, mostly to Siberia. The last ones moved to Finland when the president of Finland (by that time Mauno Koivisto, as far as I can recall) granted them Finnish nationality in the 1980-90's. Thus geographical names in Finnish are a relevant part of the history of the region, and can't be neglected, whether you like it or not. Unless you come with some very heavy evidence that I shouldn't, and in that case also verified by some administrator, I will restore the name Kaprio in it within a few days. Islander(Scandinavia) 23:28, 1 November 2006 (UTC)
By the way, only a historical names must be given, within the phrase "also historically known as Caporye in Swedish" or something similar. Other names are given to help browsing/reading historical docs related to the place in question, not for nationalistic purposes of "proving" who owned what. `' mikkanarxi 15:54, 2 November 2006 (UTC)
One only wonder why all marks to Vatja tribe has been deleted. The original inhabitants of the area. The historical name of Kaprio for Russian Koporje have existed more than 1.000 years as well as Jaama (Jamburg), Kukkosi, Kattila, Pihkaala. Ilmola, Pihlaava, Koppana etc with Sumajoki and Kaprionlahti (Bay of Kaprio). I do not understand why some persons who writes these articles have a tendency to classify all Finnish tribes history of c. 800 - 1323 as "Fiction with no prove".
Despite written documents starts only appear in 1200´s, mostly in Latin, the heritage is well documented in singed folklores. As an example of these, although being from early 1700 during the Great Northern War, is a singed version by an peasant womon who saw personally what happened and created a folklore named "Sota Narvan teinoilla" which is today the best document of what really happened there.
Lack of understanding Finnish and Estonian by the writers is clearly shown in case that they have not created any, even stub, article of Tver (Tihveri) Karelians ones numbered to 145.000. Even in 1926 their number is 140.567 persons who classifyd themselves as Karelians, many of them originally Orthodox Inkerikkos (Izhoras) who moved from Inkeri (Ingermanland) in 1617 - 1656 to Novgorod and Tver (Tihveri) areas in Russia.
JN above edit was entered May 20'th 2007 from IP address 88.115.126.189