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All other Byzantine dynasties are under their "surname", without the word "dynasty". A redirect here is barring the move. Maed 21:51, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Comnenus is NOT a Greek name. It originates from the Latin word Comminus wich is a small military sword. My ancestors are NOT greeks because the Pope in Rome could not stand that the Eastern Romans were losing the war against Islamic nations. This is MY last name and it has been OUR last name since the 11th century onward as my coat of arms with the real coats of arms of the Commini testifies. GeorgiosArisDoukasComnenus ( talk) 01:32, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
n. 11 on p. 36 of the Penguin Classics (paperback 1979) version of E.R.A. Sewter's translation of "The Alexiad of Anna Comnena" has "The family came originally from Comne, near Hadrianople". This footnote was clarifying a reference to Alexius's grandfather's city which it has as Kastamouni, and additionally drops in this other bit of info. After searching I am clear that Hadrianople is Edirne, which puts Comne in the European part of Modern Turkey ? John5Russell3Finley ( talk) 13:51, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
What about the modern Comnenus? I'm sure i've read on the internet somewhere that they live in Venezuela. English Bobby ( talk) 15:33, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
I am one of the Comneni. Officially according to the bureau heraldry with a coat of arms from the 11th century whereupon all my direct male ancestors to Emperor Isaac Comnenus are written. Officially recognised by the Greek church and the bureau of heraldry. You are using my family name incorrect. Greeks took our name but I testify you my ancestors are NOT Greek so modify the name to its origin: Comnenus. GeorgiosArisDoukasComnenus ( talk) 01:23, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved to Komnenoi. There was overwhelming support for a move, but as participants failed to express a preference, I just removed the disagreeing redundancy. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk) 17:21, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Komnenoi dynasty →
Komnenian dynasty or
Komnenos dynasty — The Greek plural looks awkward and is very rarely used
[1]. Either stick to the singular form of the surname, or use the adjectival form, both of which are far more commonly used
[2] &
[3]
Constantine
✍ 13:39, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
What?! What is the name used in sources? Is either Komnenos or Comnenos. It should have been Dynasty of Comnenos not "Komnenoi". What reader would search the dynasty trhough that name? And Komnenoi was not even the proposed name when the request was made. -- Lecen ( talk) 19:32, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Could an admin please move this back to "Komnenos", like the rest of the Byzantine family names? Constantine ✍ 03:39, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
The use of the Hellenized version of the name instead (Komnenos) of the official version (Comnenus) used by the Oxford encyclopedia https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780227679319.001.0001/acref-9780227679319-e-663 and the encyclopedia Brittanica https://www.britannica.com/topic/Comnenus-family is not only incorrect, it is also not just and a falsification of history. It is well known that after the black death killed most of the Greek inhabitants of the Peloponnesos, the Albanians sheep herders who migrated there took Hellenized versions of Byzantine aristocratic names to honor them. Hence why nowadays you can find alot of people with the name Komninos in Greece. However, this does not imply that this is a Greek family. On the contrary, they were closely related to the Ducas family, a family whose name originates from the Latin word Dux, Duke or military commander. This should ring a bell as regards their origin. Furthermore Com and minus is a latin prefix and word. Their combination makes Comminus, a type of long dagger used in short range combat in Rome ( https://www.pinterest.es/pin/272960427386079397/). The Roman name was modified over the ages. Komninos however, has no meaning in the Greek language, because it is not a Greek name - it is the Hellenized version of a Latin name. Facts speak for themselves. That there is a village which has some linguistic resemblance to this name, does not imply that this family originates from this village. Of course Greek authors such as Varzos will claim that this family is of Greek descent and authors whose research was financed by the Greek government (Kazhdan) will claim it too. However, in origin this name is highly unlikely to be of Greek descent. You might not know, espeacially in the early ages of the Eastern Roman Empire in Constantinople the Latin elite did not mix with the Greeks, which they considered inferior and plebes. There was even a degree of hate between them - at some point the Greeks massacred most Latin inhabitants of the city - which resulted in a call for a Holy War against Byzantium by the pope --> read about the fall of Constantinople in /info/en/?search=Sack_of_Constantinople. Byzantium was founded by a Roman Emperor, Constantine the Great and it was defeated from a Greek Emperor, Constantine Paleologos. Nobody referred to it as Byzantium, it was known as the Eastern Roman Emperor. Under pressure from the Greek population, the Latin aristocracy had to change the empire into a Greek setting. And the Pope, who wanted to claim sovereignty gladly agreed that the Eastern Roman Empire had nothing to do with Rome - hence it became known by the name Byzantium, from king Byzas - who lived the ages before Emperor Constantine the Great created the Eastern Roman Empire. Remember this truth when you wish to falsify history and continue to dishonor the origin of this noble name.
The result of the move request was: moving to Komnenos, since that clearly seems to be preferred to the current title, without prejudice to any further proposals regarding the title of this or the "Byzantium under..." article. Kotniski ( talk) 11:10, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
Komnenoi →
Komnenian dynasty — Relisted
Jafeluv (
talk) 13:11, 16 November 2010 (UTC) Per previous request ignored by the closing admin who imposed his own solution: Greek plural is awkward and hardly ever used.
Constantine
✍ 08:28, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
Suggestion Will people be happy if we move it back to Komnenos dynasty instead. No one had a problem with it for a while until I changed it. I know Komnenoi sounds ackward, but I was just trying to keep the title unisexual. I would Oppose Komnenian or Comnenian or anything with a C.-- Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy ( talk) 01:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
Komnenos has 19,200 hits, many more than "Comneni" under the same criteria. It has also the advantage of being standard ODB onomatology. Therefore it is a preferable form to "Comneni". Dr.K. λogos πraxis 21:36, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Warren Treadgold listed four forms of transliteration in the introduction to A History of the Byzantine State and Society (1997), as being mainly in use (the quotations and examples are his, the labels mine):
Although writing some years after ODB, he does not mention it as a main, much less "standard", system.
Interesting. Constantine Pladikas argues that we should use ODB, because, although it is not the most common forms in English, it represents Greek most accurately; Dr. K and Andrew Dalby argue that it doesn't matter how accurate it is, it is most common. Gnetlemen, you refute each other. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:26, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
To recap: so far we have four support (QE's Little Spy, mine, Dr.K's, and Srnec's) for reverting to Komnenos, and one oppose (by Pmanderson), coupled with a proposal to amend to Comnenus or Comnenian etc. Constantine ✍ 11:51, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Just seen this on the backlog at WP:RMB and note that there's been only one comment in the last month. Given that discussion has died, and the one title no-one seems to want is the current title, is there any objection to moving it to the apparently most popular alternative Komnenos? If anyone wants to propose further change, they could then start a new move request.-- Kotniski ( talk) 16:26, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
There was an old no reference tag on the page but there is in fact one reference. I removed that tag and replaced it with a dated "One source" tag. Otr500 ( talk) 11:39, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
This article should be protected from the edits of anonymous users.-- The Emperor's New Spy ( talk) 09:31, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
The misspelled name Komnenos is factually incorrect. In accordance with Wikipedia guidelines this must be Comnenus to avoid a discrepancy with reputable sources which use the right name, Comnenus: see the Oxford dictionary at https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780227679319.001.0001/acref-9780227679319-e-663, the Encyclopaedia Brittanica https://www.britannica.com/topic/Comnenus-family. No historical sources ever used the name Komnenos: see the book from Niketas Acominatus Choniates (a Byzantine!): the LXXXVI annorum historia, graece latineque editum, or the Compendium historiarum in tres tomes distinctum from Johannes Zonaras from the year 1557, the Chronicka von C. Julio Cesare dem ersten, biss auff Carolum quintum by Johan Cuspinianus from 1541, the Christianae religionis, institutionisque Domini Nostri Jesu Christi et apostolicae traditionis, adversus misoliturgorum blasphemias, ac novorum hujus temporis sectariorum imposturas, praecipuè Joannis Calvini & suorum contra sacram Missam, catholica et historica propugnatio by Antonio Monchiaceno Demochare Ressonaeo from 1562 page 60 and Historia Imperatorum Romanorum A Constantino Magno usque ad Constantinum postremum, & Constantinopolim à Turcis occupatam from 1578 by Nicéphore Grégoras (a Byzantine), page 35. Go to page 646 from the De iure status siue De iure diuino et naturali ecclesiasticae libertatis et potestatis auctore Thoma Bozio Eugubino from the year 1600. Finally in compendium: the Corpus Historiae Byzantinae from MDLXVII! Should I continue? I will move the page back to Comnenus tomorrow and report anyone who continues to run against Wikipedia code of conduct for a permanent ban. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:6428:DFB6:85A8:41F0 ( talk) 19:57, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
As I stated before, to avoid discrepancy with modern encyclopedias such as Oxford and Brittanica, the page should be Comnenus as it was originally. Source: https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780227679319.001.0001/acref-9780227679319-e-663 and https://www.britannica.com/topic/Comnenus-family. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:6428:DFB6:85A8:41F0 ( talk) 21:08, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
The editors in this case are of Greek descent and surely it seems logical that they want the name to be Greek, but this runs against the Oxford Encyclopedia and the Brittanica Encyclopedia plus books written by Byzantine sources in Latin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:6428:DFB6:85A8:41F0 ( talk) 21:11, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
With all due respect and without the wish to warn - simply to explain this situation in legal terms, per the Wikipedia Terms of Reference, through the use of the name Komnenos through a redirect of the right name Comnenus (which in all reputable sources is the correct name, Oxford, Brittanica and even sources dating back hundreds of years), the current editor intentionally or knowingly posts content with the intent to deceive by posting content that is false or inaccurate. Because this creates the false impression that the Comnenus dynasty was of Greek descent - there is no evidence for this whatsoever. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:6428:DFB6:85A8:41F0 ( talk) 21:20, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
In response to that these sources are written in Latin, you are mistaken. Read this source written in German, written in 1520, third sentence from top (Comnenus): https://books.google.nl/books/content?id=G6lRAAAAcAAJ&hl=nl&pg=PP599&img=1&zoom=3&sig=ACfU3U2huuYAAGj38nyWKlU2GapoVJ1Jig&w=1025 . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:6428:DFB6:85A8:41F0 ( talk) 21:24, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
The use of the name Comnenus should be no matter for consensus. The editor should give what belongs to this name - as is attested by all reputable sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:495:BF55:D8F5:C138 ( talk) 22:00, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
In the case of disputes between editors, we must follow the standardized form which is used in contemporary, reputable sources: Oxford Encyclopedia or Brittanica Encyclopedia. Now respond to that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:495:BF55:D8F5:C138 ( talk) 22:25, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
On the legal issue, you are mistaken, this is a legal issue which can be brought up for adjudication in a state or federal court located in San Francisco County, California to be precise. I advise you to learn more about the terms of use of Wikipedia.
Look it up: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Comnenus-family and https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780227679319.001.0001/acref-9780227679319-e-663. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:495:BF55:D8F5:C138 ( talk) 22:41, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
Firstly, I did not make a threat and secondly I certainly did not make a threat against an editor. On the contrary, you made a threat here - which runs against Wikipedia's Terms of Use. Ask an Administrator who made the threat here. I explained that this is a legal issue. You should read the Wikipedia Terms of Use and learn to understand what a legal issue is and what a threat is. With a PhD in Law, i can tell you that a threat needs a conditio sine qua non - point it out if you are confident about your assertion. Let me quote the Wikipedia Terms of Use on legal issues for you to understand it better:
" 13. Disputes and Jurisdiction Highlighted for emphasis
We hope that no serious disagreements arise involving you, but, in the event there is a dispute, we encourage you to seek resolution through the dispute resolution procedures or mechanisms provided by the Projects or Project editions and the Wikimedia Foundation. If you seek to file a legal claim against us, you agree to file and resolve it exclusively in a state or federal court located in San Francisco County, California. You also agree that the laws of the State of California and, to the extent applicable, the laws of the United States of America will govern these Terms of Use, as well as any legal claim that might arise between you and us (without reference to conflict of laws principles). You agree to submit to the personal jurisdiction of, and agree that venue is proper in, the courts located in San Francisco County, California, in any legal action or proceeding relating to us or these Terms of Use.
To ensure that disputes are dealt with soon after they arise, you agree that regardless of any statute or law to the contrary, any claim or cause of action you might have arising out of or related to use of our services or these Terms of Use must be filed within the applicable statute of limitations or, if earlier, one (1) year after the pertinent facts underlying such claim or cause of action could have been discovered with reasonable diligence (or be forever barred)."
Now that this matter is settled, respond to a very simple and clear fact: Oxford Encyclopedia and Brittanica Encyclopedia use the name Comnenus. The onus probandi is on the modifiers of the original page Comnenus (which was changed into Komnenos years ago) to prove that the modification is not running against Wikipedia's Terms of Use. The original page - in line with other encyclopedias, was modified through consensus between Greek editors. Since there is disagreement between editors right now, the terms of use of Wikipedia requires us to resort to reputable, contemporary sources, which in this case are https://www.britannica.com/topic/Comnenus-family and https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780227679319.001.0001/acref-9780227679319-e-663. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:495:BF55:D8F5:C138 ( talk) 00:19, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
Your faul language is not appropriate for an editor and you are discrediting yourself this way. This a public domain. Behave yourself. There is no consensus between the editors. Hence, follow the standardized format in other Encyclopedias, which is Comnenus: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Comnenus-family and https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780227679319.001.0001/acref-9780227679319-e-663. Respond to that or edit accordingly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:495:BF55:D8F5:C138 ( talk) 01:17, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
This grave barbaric behavior of threats to block and use of faul language by an editor is highly inappropriate. You are urged to promptly behave in a civilised manner and to show due respect. Wikipedia is neither a forum to rant out your random insults nor tolerates this type of behavior.
Now with you keeping aforesaid closely in mind, in accordance with the sources stated above and in the light of the Greek editors' inability to counteract logica, namely that an assymetry between Brittanica Encyclopedia and Oxford Encyclopedia on the one hand and personal adjustments thriugh consensus between Greek editirs of a prior perfectly construed contribution of "Comnenus" years ago into "Komnenos" elsehand, the aforesaid personal adjustments ought to be reversed with immediate effect and it is your duty as a credible editor to undo this discrepancy caused by the personal actions of consensus between Greek editors without any further ado and as soon as possible. For this, you have 24 hours counting from the time of submission of this response. And no, that is not a threat. No barbarism here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:9491:E1C5:634E:3F8A ( talk) 02:08, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
By your argument, there has neither been a good reason to change the original page name Comnenus to Komnenos, unless wikipedia is a marketplace to express nationalistic sentiment. There is a legitimate reason to undo the page name revision into Komnenos, namely that both the Brittanica Encyclopedia and the Oxford Encyclopedia use the page name Comnenus. The middle ground solution could be to create two similar page names, one with Komnenos and one with Comnenus, just like there exists a wikipage with Comnene in French. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:50BE:DC82:F03E:57D2 ( talk) 14:39, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
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All other Byzantine dynasties are under their "surname", without the word "dynasty". A redirect here is barring the move. Maed 21:51, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Comnenus is NOT a Greek name. It originates from the Latin word Comminus wich is a small military sword. My ancestors are NOT greeks because the Pope in Rome could not stand that the Eastern Romans were losing the war against Islamic nations. This is MY last name and it has been OUR last name since the 11th century onward as my coat of arms with the real coats of arms of the Commini testifies. GeorgiosArisDoukasComnenus ( talk) 01:32, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
n. 11 on p. 36 of the Penguin Classics (paperback 1979) version of E.R.A. Sewter's translation of "The Alexiad of Anna Comnena" has "The family came originally from Comne, near Hadrianople". This footnote was clarifying a reference to Alexius's grandfather's city which it has as Kastamouni, and additionally drops in this other bit of info. After searching I am clear that Hadrianople is Edirne, which puts Comne in the European part of Modern Turkey ? John5Russell3Finley ( talk) 13:51, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
What about the modern Comnenus? I'm sure i've read on the internet somewhere that they live in Venezuela. English Bobby ( talk) 15:33, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
I am one of the Comneni. Officially according to the bureau heraldry with a coat of arms from the 11th century whereupon all my direct male ancestors to Emperor Isaac Comnenus are written. Officially recognised by the Greek church and the bureau of heraldry. You are using my family name incorrect. Greeks took our name but I testify you my ancestors are NOT Greek so modify the name to its origin: Comnenus. GeorgiosArisDoukasComnenus ( talk) 01:23, 19 January 2016 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved to Komnenoi. There was overwhelming support for a move, but as participants failed to express a preference, I just removed the disagreeing redundancy. Deacon of Pndapetzim ( Talk) 17:21, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Komnenoi dynasty →
Komnenian dynasty or
Komnenos dynasty — The Greek plural looks awkward and is very rarely used
[1]. Either stick to the singular form of the surname, or use the adjectival form, both of which are far more commonly used
[2] &
[3]
Constantine
✍ 13:39, 2 October 2010 (UTC)
What?! What is the name used in sources? Is either Komnenos or Comnenos. It should have been Dynasty of Comnenos not "Komnenoi". What reader would search the dynasty trhough that name? And Komnenoi was not even the proposed name when the request was made. -- Lecen ( talk) 19:32, 12 October 2010 (UTC)
Could an admin please move this back to "Komnenos", like the rest of the Byzantine family names? Constantine ✍ 03:39, 16 October 2010 (UTC)
The use of the Hellenized version of the name instead (Komnenos) of the official version (Comnenus) used by the Oxford encyclopedia https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780227679319.001.0001/acref-9780227679319-e-663 and the encyclopedia Brittanica https://www.britannica.com/topic/Comnenus-family is not only incorrect, it is also not just and a falsification of history. It is well known that after the black death killed most of the Greek inhabitants of the Peloponnesos, the Albanians sheep herders who migrated there took Hellenized versions of Byzantine aristocratic names to honor them. Hence why nowadays you can find alot of people with the name Komninos in Greece. However, this does not imply that this is a Greek family. On the contrary, they were closely related to the Ducas family, a family whose name originates from the Latin word Dux, Duke or military commander. This should ring a bell as regards their origin. Furthermore Com and minus is a latin prefix and word. Their combination makes Comminus, a type of long dagger used in short range combat in Rome ( https://www.pinterest.es/pin/272960427386079397/). The Roman name was modified over the ages. Komninos however, has no meaning in the Greek language, because it is not a Greek name - it is the Hellenized version of a Latin name. Facts speak for themselves. That there is a village which has some linguistic resemblance to this name, does not imply that this family originates from this village. Of course Greek authors such as Varzos will claim that this family is of Greek descent and authors whose research was financed by the Greek government (Kazhdan) will claim it too. However, in origin this name is highly unlikely to be of Greek descent. You might not know, espeacially in the early ages of the Eastern Roman Empire in Constantinople the Latin elite did not mix with the Greeks, which they considered inferior and plebes. There was even a degree of hate between them - at some point the Greeks massacred most Latin inhabitants of the city - which resulted in a call for a Holy War against Byzantium by the pope --> read about the fall of Constantinople in /info/en/?search=Sack_of_Constantinople. Byzantium was founded by a Roman Emperor, Constantine the Great and it was defeated from a Greek Emperor, Constantine Paleologos. Nobody referred to it as Byzantium, it was known as the Eastern Roman Emperor. Under pressure from the Greek population, the Latin aristocracy had to change the empire into a Greek setting. And the Pope, who wanted to claim sovereignty gladly agreed that the Eastern Roman Empire had nothing to do with Rome - hence it became known by the name Byzantium, from king Byzas - who lived the ages before Emperor Constantine the Great created the Eastern Roman Empire. Remember this truth when you wish to falsify history and continue to dishonor the origin of this noble name.
The result of the move request was: moving to Komnenos, since that clearly seems to be preferred to the current title, without prejudice to any further proposals regarding the title of this or the "Byzantium under..." article. Kotniski ( talk) 11:10, 30 December 2010 (UTC)
Komnenoi →
Komnenian dynasty — Relisted
Jafeluv (
talk) 13:11, 16 November 2010 (UTC) Per previous request ignored by the closing admin who imposed his own solution: Greek plural is awkward and hardly ever used.
Constantine
✍ 08:28, 8 November 2010 (UTC)
Suggestion Will people be happy if we move it back to Komnenos dynasty instead. No one had a problem with it for a while until I changed it. I know Komnenoi sounds ackward, but I was just trying to keep the title unisexual. I would Oppose Komnenian or Comnenian or anything with a C.-- Queen Elizabeth II's Little Spy ( talk) 01:58, 14 November 2010 (UTC)
Komnenos has 19,200 hits, many more than "Comneni" under the same criteria. It has also the advantage of being standard ODB onomatology. Therefore it is a preferable form to "Comneni". Dr.K. λogos πraxis 21:36, 15 November 2010 (UTC)
Warren Treadgold listed four forms of transliteration in the introduction to A History of the Byzantine State and Society (1997), as being mainly in use (the quotations and examples are his, the labels mine):
Although writing some years after ODB, he does not mention it as a main, much less "standard", system.
Interesting. Constantine Pladikas argues that we should use ODB, because, although it is not the most common forms in English, it represents Greek most accurately; Dr. K and Andrew Dalby argue that it doesn't matter how accurate it is, it is most common. Gnetlemen, you refute each other. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:26, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
To recap: so far we have four support (QE's Little Spy, mine, Dr.K's, and Srnec's) for reverting to Komnenos, and one oppose (by Pmanderson), coupled with a proposal to amend to Comnenus or Comnenian etc. Constantine ✍ 11:51, 18 November 2010 (UTC)
Just seen this on the backlog at WP:RMB and note that there's been only one comment in the last month. Given that discussion has died, and the one title no-one seems to want is the current title, is there any objection to moving it to the apparently most popular alternative Komnenos? If anyone wants to propose further change, they could then start a new move request.-- Kotniski ( talk) 16:26, 28 December 2010 (UTC)
There was an old no reference tag on the page but there is in fact one reference. I removed that tag and replaced it with a dated "One source" tag. Otr500 ( talk) 11:39, 24 February 2011 (UTC)
This article should be protected from the edits of anonymous users.-- The Emperor's New Spy ( talk) 09:31, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
The misspelled name Komnenos is factually incorrect. In accordance with Wikipedia guidelines this must be Comnenus to avoid a discrepancy with reputable sources which use the right name, Comnenus: see the Oxford dictionary at https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780227679319.001.0001/acref-9780227679319-e-663, the Encyclopaedia Brittanica https://www.britannica.com/topic/Comnenus-family. No historical sources ever used the name Komnenos: see the book from Niketas Acominatus Choniates (a Byzantine!): the LXXXVI annorum historia, graece latineque editum, or the Compendium historiarum in tres tomes distinctum from Johannes Zonaras from the year 1557, the Chronicka von C. Julio Cesare dem ersten, biss auff Carolum quintum by Johan Cuspinianus from 1541, the Christianae religionis, institutionisque Domini Nostri Jesu Christi et apostolicae traditionis, adversus misoliturgorum blasphemias, ac novorum hujus temporis sectariorum imposturas, praecipuè Joannis Calvini & suorum contra sacram Missam, catholica et historica propugnatio by Antonio Monchiaceno Demochare Ressonaeo from 1562 page 60 and Historia Imperatorum Romanorum A Constantino Magno usque ad Constantinum postremum, & Constantinopolim à Turcis occupatam from 1578 by Nicéphore Grégoras (a Byzantine), page 35. Go to page 646 from the De iure status siue De iure diuino et naturali ecclesiasticae libertatis et potestatis auctore Thoma Bozio Eugubino from the year 1600. Finally in compendium: the Corpus Historiae Byzantinae from MDLXVII! Should I continue? I will move the page back to Comnenus tomorrow and report anyone who continues to run against Wikipedia code of conduct for a permanent ban. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:6428:DFB6:85A8:41F0 ( talk) 19:57, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
As I stated before, to avoid discrepancy with modern encyclopedias such as Oxford and Brittanica, the page should be Comnenus as it was originally. Source: https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780227679319.001.0001/acref-9780227679319-e-663 and https://www.britannica.com/topic/Comnenus-family. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:6428:DFB6:85A8:41F0 ( talk) 21:08, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
The editors in this case are of Greek descent and surely it seems logical that they want the name to be Greek, but this runs against the Oxford Encyclopedia and the Brittanica Encyclopedia plus books written by Byzantine sources in Latin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:6428:DFB6:85A8:41F0 ( talk) 21:11, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
With all due respect and without the wish to warn - simply to explain this situation in legal terms, per the Wikipedia Terms of Reference, through the use of the name Komnenos through a redirect of the right name Comnenus (which in all reputable sources is the correct name, Oxford, Brittanica and even sources dating back hundreds of years), the current editor intentionally or knowingly posts content with the intent to deceive by posting content that is false or inaccurate. Because this creates the false impression that the Comnenus dynasty was of Greek descent - there is no evidence for this whatsoever. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:6428:DFB6:85A8:41F0 ( talk) 21:20, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
In response to that these sources are written in Latin, you are mistaken. Read this source written in German, written in 1520, third sentence from top (Comnenus): https://books.google.nl/books/content?id=G6lRAAAAcAAJ&hl=nl&pg=PP599&img=1&zoom=3&sig=ACfU3U2huuYAAGj38nyWKlU2GapoVJ1Jig&w=1025 . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:6428:DFB6:85A8:41F0 ( talk) 21:24, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
The use of the name Comnenus should be no matter for consensus. The editor should give what belongs to this name - as is attested by all reputable sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:495:BF55:D8F5:C138 ( talk) 22:00, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
In the case of disputes between editors, we must follow the standardized form which is used in contemporary, reputable sources: Oxford Encyclopedia or Brittanica Encyclopedia. Now respond to that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:495:BF55:D8F5:C138 ( talk) 22:25, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
On the legal issue, you are mistaken, this is a legal issue which can be brought up for adjudication in a state or federal court located in San Francisco County, California to be precise. I advise you to learn more about the terms of use of Wikipedia.
Look it up: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Comnenus-family and https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780227679319.001.0001/acref-9780227679319-e-663. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:495:BF55:D8F5:C138 ( talk) 22:41, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
Firstly, I did not make a threat and secondly I certainly did not make a threat against an editor. On the contrary, you made a threat here - which runs against Wikipedia's Terms of Use. Ask an Administrator who made the threat here. I explained that this is a legal issue. You should read the Wikipedia Terms of Use and learn to understand what a legal issue is and what a threat is. With a PhD in Law, i can tell you that a threat needs a conditio sine qua non - point it out if you are confident about your assertion. Let me quote the Wikipedia Terms of Use on legal issues for you to understand it better:
" 13. Disputes and Jurisdiction Highlighted for emphasis
We hope that no serious disagreements arise involving you, but, in the event there is a dispute, we encourage you to seek resolution through the dispute resolution procedures or mechanisms provided by the Projects or Project editions and the Wikimedia Foundation. If you seek to file a legal claim against us, you agree to file and resolve it exclusively in a state or federal court located in San Francisco County, California. You also agree that the laws of the State of California and, to the extent applicable, the laws of the United States of America will govern these Terms of Use, as well as any legal claim that might arise between you and us (without reference to conflict of laws principles). You agree to submit to the personal jurisdiction of, and agree that venue is proper in, the courts located in San Francisco County, California, in any legal action or proceeding relating to us or these Terms of Use.
To ensure that disputes are dealt with soon after they arise, you agree that regardless of any statute or law to the contrary, any claim or cause of action you might have arising out of or related to use of our services or these Terms of Use must be filed within the applicable statute of limitations or, if earlier, one (1) year after the pertinent facts underlying such claim or cause of action could have been discovered with reasonable diligence (or be forever barred)."
Now that this matter is settled, respond to a very simple and clear fact: Oxford Encyclopedia and Brittanica Encyclopedia use the name Comnenus. The onus probandi is on the modifiers of the original page Comnenus (which was changed into Komnenos years ago) to prove that the modification is not running against Wikipedia's Terms of Use. The original page - in line with other encyclopedias, was modified through consensus between Greek editors. Since there is disagreement between editors right now, the terms of use of Wikipedia requires us to resort to reputable, contemporary sources, which in this case are https://www.britannica.com/topic/Comnenus-family and https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780227679319.001.0001/acref-9780227679319-e-663. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:495:BF55:D8F5:C138 ( talk) 00:19, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
Your faul language is not appropriate for an editor and you are discrediting yourself this way. This a public domain. Behave yourself. There is no consensus between the editors. Hence, follow the standardized format in other Encyclopedias, which is Comnenus: https://www.britannica.com/topic/Comnenus-family and https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10.1093/acref/9780227679319.001.0001/acref-9780227679319-e-663. Respond to that or edit accordingly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:495:BF55:D8F5:C138 ( talk) 01:17, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
This grave barbaric behavior of threats to block and use of faul language by an editor is highly inappropriate. You are urged to promptly behave in a civilised manner and to show due respect. Wikipedia is neither a forum to rant out your random insults nor tolerates this type of behavior.
Now with you keeping aforesaid closely in mind, in accordance with the sources stated above and in the light of the Greek editors' inability to counteract logica, namely that an assymetry between Brittanica Encyclopedia and Oxford Encyclopedia on the one hand and personal adjustments thriugh consensus between Greek editirs of a prior perfectly construed contribution of "Comnenus" years ago into "Komnenos" elsehand, the aforesaid personal adjustments ought to be reversed with immediate effect and it is your duty as a credible editor to undo this discrepancy caused by the personal actions of consensus between Greek editors without any further ado and as soon as possible. For this, you have 24 hours counting from the time of submission of this response. And no, that is not a threat. No barbarism here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:9491:E1C5:634E:3F8A ( talk) 02:08, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
By your argument, there has neither been a good reason to change the original page name Comnenus to Komnenos, unless wikipedia is a marketplace to express nationalistic sentiment. There is a legitimate reason to undo the page name revision into Komnenos, namely that both the Brittanica Encyclopedia and the Oxford Encyclopedia use the page name Comnenus. The middle ground solution could be to create two similar page names, one with Komnenos and one with Comnenus, just like there exists a wikipage with Comnene in French. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1C03:5D18:8C00:50BE:DC82:F03E:57D2 ( talk) 14:39, 26 January 2021 (UTC)