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This is a factually invalid and prejudicial article that does not belong in the encyclopedia. The author cites two alleged cases of this "game" in 19 years. I would ask Wikipedia to avoid carrying articles that attribute behaviors to "teens" (or any other population group) unless the authors can document with valid references (not mere news articles) that they are widespread, common, and occur only among that demographic. Mike Males, YouthFacts.org
This article keeps on being reverted even though the game is predominately "played" by black youths but that note keeps getting removed!
Its time to add the subject of racial violence to this topic. Its quite apparent to even the least educated observer, that this game is predominately played by African American youths against European American whites. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1007:B02C:F37B:A4D7:E5F6:AE51:49E5 ( talk) 17:17, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
The ridiculous self-censorship about the black racists involved is dangerous for the whole Wikipedia. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
151.66.185.0 (
talk)
20:07, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
I think that there has been a range of victims, from "white" people to Asian citizens. The "game", even being played overseas, is not predominately played by one race or another. United States citizens think that only African Americans could be capable of such an act, that is where the true race issue is hidden. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.44.64.132 ( talk) 20:37, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
I think that there has been a range of victims, from "white people to "tan" people. The "game", is played by "black" primarily teen citizens knocking out "non-black" citizens, videoing it and posting it on the internet. The rest is rationalized, revisionist garbage put forth to protect the "game' players. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.225.252.201 ( talk) 18:34, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
I've checked these links pretty carefully. It's clear -- from an encyclopedic point of view -- that we can document a CLAIM that there is a widely-distributed game in which uninvolved people are subjected to vicious unprovoked attacks for the amusement of teen males. This article in its present form affirms that there really is a widespread practice, when the Post-Dispatch article on the Index case was already (very properly) asking whether that view might not be imposing a connecting narrative on random acts of violence. It has all the earmarks of a rumor panic (hints of conspiracy) and it provokes all the usual responses -- just look at the comments section on any of the videos posted. I'm pretty sure you've got an urban legend here, very much like the "Lights Out" type, but the racial violence? That's all in the comments --including the ones here. 150.243.14.35 ( talk) 19:10, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
The story originally linked to http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/11/16/potentially-fatal-knockout-game-targeting-strangers-may-be-spreading-to-d-c/, which identifies the guy in the alley as Ralph Santiago, but in the video, his name is given as James Addlespurger. If you click through to the link about Santiago at NJ.com, there is no mention of this game, but there is another article, now listed, that does mention the game.
I have not checked the other footnotes, but because the entry repeated the erroneous information from the CBS report, I separated the two reports and provided separate links. Cyraxote ( talk) 22:05, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
I've just semi-protected the article for a month, as there's currently a daily barrage of useless, racist vandalism. As there's dialog here on the talk page now, anon editors can feel free to weigh in here instead - Alison ❤ 22:14, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
Good for you. Last thing on planet earth anyone want's is an accurate revision of history. Ignoring the obvious racial component is not racist? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.225.252.201 ( talk) 23:15, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
This
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Please note that the "knockout game" includes aspects of racial profiling where individuals are targeted based on their race. Also most of the attacks are sucker-punches. This activity is strongly related to racial profiling. It is surprising that this aspect of this article is avoided... it would be like referring to the Nazi death camps without referencing war or Jews. Please have someone look into this post and edit. 71.193.29.244 ( talk) 03:43, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
Not done: Thanks for wanting to improve the article. Suggestions are always welcome and do not require an {{ edit semi-protected}} template. The template is used to allow non-auto-confirmed editors to make specific, detailed edit requests. Those edit requests must be detailed at a "please change X to Y" level and include reliable sources supporting any factual change. Regards, Celestra ( talk) 16:12, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The knockout game, also known as polar bear hunting, is overwhelmingly perpetrated by blacks on white victims. 74.213.33.235 ( talk) 20:15, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
Whether or not these other articles are referring to the same thing, they use the same name or something similar like "polar bear hunting" (possibly a term purposely inflamatory created by media sensationalists) and it is allegedly played similarly. I, for one, would like these articles referenced in the wiki page along with that previous one from 1992. If nothing else they can be evidence of past attacks either mistakenly attributed or possibly adding to the evidence of this not being a new game.
Whatever your feelings, we all know deep inside that this does in fact have a racial component. Certainly it is not an organized movement against whites by blacks, but the perpetrators just simply ARE black youths. I have a problem with the word "conservative" being used in the article. Why not just say something like "some commentators"? Adding the word conservative seems to be a slimy attempt to discredit the points that follow it. Hope more editors are concerned enough to offer their input on this article. 24.60.214.65 ( talk) 04:09, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
I don't see any conservative media analysts calling it a myth or an urban legend, using the exact logic that see's coservative inserted in the body. I inserted liberal into the lead. Only liberal media analysts believe it is a myth. Before it vanishes better come up with some great spin why one should stay and the other go as numerous liberals as pointed out below and elsewhere have certainly acknowledged they believe this myth being perpertraed by the conservative media(according to the spinbots around here) exists. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.88.4.211 ( talk) 06:39, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
Well, the Washington Post published an article today discussing this very topic. http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/district-police-investigating-random-attacks-similar-to-knockout-game/2013/11/21/ca9e26c2-5154-11e3-9fe0-fd2ca728e67c_story.html
The WP is certainly considered to be left-leaning. Geraldo Rivera also discussed this on the O'Reilly Factor on 11/22/13, with Laura Ingraham. I wouldn't say Rivera is a liberal, but he certainly cannot be called a "conservative commentator". I understand the resistance to acknowledge this topic's racial component - race is an understandably loaded addition to any conversation - but the claim that only conservative commentators are talking about this is not accurate. 24.60.214.65 ( talk) 05:09, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
This
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In the case of Michael Daniels, both boys plead guilty, and were sentenced to 1.5 years prison. [ Attacks around US probed for link to knockout game] 99.163.118.77 ( talk) 04:41, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
Saying these attacks are racially motivated is completely dishonest as no one can prove that all victims have been white. There have been multiple victims of all races in these attacks. Adding information on what Conservative pundits are saying about black youths only attacking white victims does nothing but add prejudice to the article as it is not true. Dumaka ( talk) 16:47, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
It likely is not racially motivated in the sense that certain black individuals organize and seek to target whites in a concerted effort. However, of the reported cases by any news outlet I'm aware of, the very significant majority of these cases have been committed by young black individuals against non-black individuals. The idea that this "game" is just a fantasy ginned-up by certain Conservative pundits is demonstrably false. As another editor posted on this page, a convicted participant of this "game" has already acknowledged it as such. Are we to believe that this individual and his group of friends created this "game" themselves, and that all of the other reported cases are just coincidental?
24.60.214.65 ( talk) 05:24, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
-- 96.247.231.243 ( talk) 00:47, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
According to the New York Times, the Pittsburgh police say there is no evidence that James Addlespurger's assault was part of any "knockout game." (starts in 15th graf): http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/23/nyregion/knockout-game-a-spreading-menace-or-a-myth.html?_r=0 That article also points out that many in law enforcement believe this game is an urban myth. The article should be edited to include this information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.66.9.21 ( talk) 16:17, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
Watch the attack of James Addlespurger on video as difficult as that happens to be. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nPbnOmntdY Oh they didn't hang a banner calling it the knockout game? So weird how it closely resembles it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.225.252.201 ( talk) 08:12, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511302/Teenager-wildly-attacking-strangers-street-days-murdered-man-single-punch-personalised-bomb-attack.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.90.51.210 ( talk) 17:59, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
This particular incident hardly belongs in the article except as an example of the creation of the myth of the crime: Eden Lomax didn't choose a random victim, he punched a man he'd been having a lengthy conversation with after an imagined provocation. Similarly his previous two "bombs" were delivered to people who interacted with him and whom he felt had provoked him (according to the linked references). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.246.2.239 ( talk) 14:21, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
As Ryulong is insistent on edit warring I decided to write a smaller lead to go with the longer section on the details. Here is the lead. "The status of Knockout has ranged from urban myth to an actual game, with police grappling with how to advise the public on the subject or if they are different from random assaults. Police in Syracuse have stated that the assailant in one fatal attack was playing the Knockout game. Fears about the spread of the game has been covered in conservative political media, but this has been attributed to stemming from racial roots. Victims and perpetrators involved in "Knockout" indicate that it is not purely a black on white crime." How's it look? ChrisGualtieri ( talk) 18:52, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
"Knockout (violent game)" does not really work as a neutral article title. It suggests that the game is something that exists, which many sources are not clear on, and "violent" while being an accurate description of the event does not really work in an article title.— Ryulong ( 琉竜) 20:00, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was not moved. -- BDD ( talk) 00:50, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
Knockout (violent game) → Knockout (assault) – I'm turning this into a proper move discussion. As previously stated, disambiguating this item as a "violent game" does not meet WP:NPOV and treats it as something that it is not, as far as I can tell from reliable sources. I believe that disambiguating this as a type of "assault" or maybe even a "criminal trend" (although I'm not as fond as the latter) will make the article more neutral and may help to stem the vandalism that struck it in the past. — Ryulong ( 琉竜) 20:16, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's policy on article titles.ASSAULT noun 1 a physical attack : his imprisonment for an assault on the film director | sexual assaults. • Law an act, criminal or tortious, that threatens physical harm to a person, whether or not actual harm is done : he appeared in court charged with assault. • a military attack or raid on an enemy position : troops began an assault on the city | [as adj. ] an assault boat. • a strong verbal attack : the assault on the party's tax policies. 2 a concerted attempt to do something demanding : a winter assault on Mt. Everest.
GAME noun 1 a form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck. • a complete episode or period of play, typically ending in a definite result : a baseball game. • a single portion of play forming a scoring unit in a match, esp. in tennis. • Bridge a score of 100 points for tricks bid and made (the best of three games constituting a rubber). • a person's performance in a game; a person's standard or method of play : he will attempt to raise his game to another level.
Yours, GeorgeLouis ( talk) 22:41, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
Both. Sadly to say. It is a game of attackers, involving the assault of bystanders. Otherwise, if you really want to use just one word for the label, why not crime? KyuuA4 ( Talk:キュウ) 09:18, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
This game was played in Brooklyn and probably other places in NYC in the 80's, and I suspect it probably goes back further. Back then the attacks were predominately black males on black males. You can probably corroborate this by talking to 40 something year old and older prison inmates from NYC. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crazywayno ( talk • contribs) 17:06, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
This needs to be renamed KNOCKOUT (violent ASSULT) because that is what it is! It is NOT a game in any way, shape, or form. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Summerluvr2 ( talk • contribs) 20:40, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
The motive is to knockout the victim, not to rob. Therefore it is a game, a sick game, but a game. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.181.178.243 ( talk) 09:20, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
OK, I propose Knockout game, since that is what many sources call it. GeorgeLouis ( talk) 06:02, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Whether a game or not, this is what it's commonly referred to. The Choking game is another example of a "game" not in the traditional sense. It's not like youths are getting together "playing" a "game" of competition, it's just another contrived way to get a thrill. -- 68.81.41.132 ( talk) 04:53, 1 December 2013 (UTC)me
This really doesn't do anything to improve the article and will simply become a place for anyone and everyone to list events that the media have linked to this alleged trend. It should really go. The events themselves can be incorporated into the article as a whole, but the list format is not helping anyone.— Ryulong ( 琉竜) 20:19, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
I've deleted a reported instance of an assault by teenagers upon a man because nobody in the source called it part of the Knockout phenomenon. See the history here. Shouldn't we insist that a source term it "knockout" before using it? GeorgeLouis ( talk) 22:48, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
http://news.awfbase.com/content/knockout-game-turns-deadly-60-year-old-woman-shoots-and-kills-2-teens-after-being-punched -- 88.153.25.240 ( talk) 10:19, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
This has been proven to be false. http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/montgomery.asp 74.110.13.227 ( talk) 17:44, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
The heading indicates it will describe incidents resulting in serious injuries, but the only article clearly states that the attacker was not seriously injured.
-- Mfwills ( talk) 18:11, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
If you read the article, it clearly cites numerous examples of serious resulting injuries. Including actual deaths.
24.60.214.65 ( talk) 03:09, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
We need to get our legal terms straight, here. What we are talking about is not an " Assault" in the legal sense. The activity described herein is " Battery". Please read the two linked two articles to get a better understanding. In brief, though, assault does not involve touching. Battery does. e.g.
A Wikipedia article on knockout game and not a single mention of "black" or "African American". Wow, how surprising! Behemoth ( talk) 23:07, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
Really? It doesn't look that way. With 99z% of the it's a myth/panic believers being the liberal media and the it's reality being the conservative media and the liberal politicians it is extremely difficult to maintain the preposterous idea that the, it's a myth/panic is somehow the mainstream POV with the conservative POV being the minority as the page was previously construed. Why a spinbot feels a need to edit without even a hint of anything beyond-I don't like only it knows. Yes, spinbot, NYTimes, Daily Beast, Slate and Melanie Eversly are liberal. Melanie Zeversly=Reporter/blogger at USA Today with focus on civil rights and social issues— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
208.88.4.211 (
talk)
20:03, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
I don't know why this is in the article or why some comment can be equated to some new spur-of-the-moment effect to draw a parallel between this and "Miley Cyrus". I've removed it. Since TV coverage is ramping up this article might need to be watched a bit more heavily. ChrisGualtieri ( talk) 05:09, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Proposed name change to Knockout (crime). The "game" element appears to be one view of such attacks. As the article appears now, knockout incidents are "violent activity", most often treated as crimes. Whether it's a "game" that is "played" in urban areas, or a hate crime targeting non-Blacks, is still subject to debate.
If we change the name of the article to the more NPOV Knockout (crime), we'd solve some of the issues with the article.
I'd change it myself, but I'd like to do so only after reaching consensus.
Thanks, I.am.a.qwerty ( talk) 14:49, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
If it's not a legal term for an actual crime, I support changing the name of this article to Knockout (battery) instead because allowing this to remain labeled as a 'game' is spreading the trend. It's sickos getting off on hurting and killing other people, not a game. It needs to be STOPPED, not spread further. KellyLeighC ( talk) 15:10, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
This was always the problem. It isn't a game. There is no game. There's just racially motivated attacks that have been carried out for at least (documented) a quarter of a century just solely for the fun of it. The 'game' aspect might be that it is 'fun' to predate on whites, asians, and Jews. But it's not a game, just racist attacks. 2001:8003:2953:1900:D2F:299B:F522:C6C8 ( talk) 18:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
This looks and smells like a legend, one of the few that's actually urban and about urban life, though [rumor panic] is probably the more precise category. I know of folklorists who are at work on the subject now, but of course it won't be citable until the work's made public. Meanwhile, here's a reliable source that can be used to document the fact that there are responsible sources who question the reality of any widespread "game," and suggest that a regrettably ordinary type of motiveless assault is being retroactively assimilated to the category. Of course, there is no surprise if a certain number of bad actors are moved by all this publicity to play the game in real life, a phenomenon called [ostension] in folkloristics. It should get an article if it doesn't have one. [4] 184.155.85.14 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:26, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
St. Louis Circuit Attorney Jennifer Joyce acknowledges the existence of Knockout King, based on admissions by five defendants. Most of those defendants were charged with misdemeanor assaults, Joyce says.
and St. Louis Metro PD Chief Daniel Isom
"The 'knockout game' is played by a group of kids who, as outrageous as it sounds, go around with the goal of knocking people out, for apparently no reason," says Chief Daniel Isom.
suggesting the game is a distinct trend. There are other statements by witnesses, victims and the police in the other articles cited on the main page under the list of deadly attacks, which are too numerous to detail here. To label this game an "urban legend" is to communicate to the reader that these first-hand accounts are about as believable as a "Nessie" sighting, or that the parties have grossly misinterpreted their own experiences. That's not neutral. The sources cited in the article aren't treating this as folklore or a part of folk culture, they're primarily looking at it as a crime trend, a trend which implicates questions of racial disparity and public policy. Unlike with most urban legends or modern folklore, not only is there documentary evidence here (the numerous videos replayed by TV news affiliates, most of which originated as viral videos on YouTube, WorldStarHipHop, Facebook, other social media) but the documentary evidence is at the very heart of the controversy. This is closer to a something like a "meme" than an "urban legend", both in how the game is spread and transmitted among players and how knowledge of the game rapidly and unexpectedly spread through digital social media. SierraOccidental ( talk) 07:58, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
I disagree with the statement "None of this discussion really helps to improve the article". Having read the article & several of the citations, as well as all these Talk page comments, I feel that this is all very constructive dialog. Here are a few points that I believe we editors should focus on :
My edits will be guided by the above rationale. I welcome & encourage further thoughtful discussion here on how we should proceed. Brad ( talk) 23:23, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
and has been tagged as such. Checkingfax ( talk) 04:28, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
This article specifically notes one (1) instance of the "Knockout game" in which the alleged perpetrators are identified as "white".
This is the only instance in which the article sees fit to identify the ethnicity of the alleged perpetrators.
The identity of all the other perpetrators - the very fact in contention - isn't fitting to disclose.
What a telling anomaly. 144.131.202.238 ( talk) 04:36, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
Finally, a white perpetrator has been found, so that the race of the perpetrator can be identified in the article. This proves that not hate crimes have been carried out by white people. 121.222.237.91 ( talk) 03:09, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
The article should be updated to reflect the recent Knockout Game-related legislation introduced in NY. Assemblyman Jim Tedisco and Senator Hugh T. Farley introduced the Knockout Game Deterrent Act in the NY State Assembly and Senate. [1] [2]
Representative Dean Kaufert in Wisconsin has publicly stated he is considering the introduction of similar measures that would increase penalties for Knockout-style attacks.[3] [4]
Also, it may be notable to mention that the National Action Network had a rally in Brooklyn, NY to protest the recent spate of Knockout-related attacks and to call on social media to take down online videos of the attacks. The National Action Network is notable as it is headed by civil rights activist Al Sharpton, of MSNBC fame. [5]
[1]
http://www.nysenate.gov/news/senator-farley-joins-assemblyman-tedisco-lead-senate-sponsor-knockout-game-deterrent-act
[2]
http://wnyt.com/article/stories/s3228303.shtml?cat=300
[3]
http://www.twincities.com/news/ci_24612688/kaufert-considers-bill-targeting-knockout-game
[4]
http://www.afro.com/sections/news/afro_briefs/story.htm?storyid=80582
[5]
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/elderly-woman-city-10th-knockout-game-victim-article-1.1532989
--00:38, 1 December 2013 (UTC) PacificRepublic ( talk)
A recently-elected NYC councilwoman released an open letter on Dec 4 2013 discussing growing resentment by her black constituents towards her Jewish constituents as a possible factor behind Knockout attacks by young blacks on white citizens:
My sense is this Wikipedia article needs to de-emphasize the "myth" hypothesis. Police officials & elected politicians are taking the attacks seriously. I'm looking for a good page on racial tension to link to. Brad ( talk) 01:53, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
Trends don't require links between instances. Trends only require a change in frequency. Rklawton ( talk) 17:45, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved to Knockout game. While there is a fair bit of duscussion, there is a consensus, if not a strong consensus, that "Knockout game" is the WP:COMMONAME for this. The Bushranger One ping only 23:58, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
Please indicate what title you would prefer for this article. There is some discussion above under "Title issues" that might help. There is no particular form for this section. It is just a way of getting consensus on a title, including retaining the present one. Place comments and suggestions below. If you believe we have reached WP: consensus you may change the title yourself, or you can ask an administrator to take some action, including ending the discussion. If you disagree with this formula, then by all means suggest another one. Thank you. GeorgeLouis ( talk) 07:08, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
There is no need to fill this article with direct quotations of the sources we are citing in order to make it appear that this does not meet WP:Recentism. There's nothing we can do about that. This is something that's appeared in the news. Also, there is absolutely no reason to spend so much text on happy slapping which has its own article and is completely unrelated to the knockout game.— Ryulong ( 琉竜) 07:42, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
Why is the racial aspect of this crime being thrown under the bus? The overwhelming majority of these cases are being committed by blacks. -- 140.32.16.3 ( talk) 04:26, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
Race is not mentioned at all until the section titled "Race" where conservative and liberal viewpoints on the topic of race and the "knockout game" are described.— Ryulong ( 琉竜) 09:11, 12 December 2013 (UTC)The "knockout game" is one of many names given to assaults in which, purportedly, one or more assailants attempt to knock out an unsuspecting victim, often with a single sucker punch, all for the amusement of the attackers and their accomplices.
The last sentence of the introductory paragraph currently reads: "While SOME news sources report that there has been an escalation of such attacks in late 2013, with identifying SOME as a hate crime and/or a crime requiring new targeted legislation,[4][7][8] MANY media analysts have cast doubt on this and have labeled the trend, although not the reported attacks themselves, a myth[9][10] or an example of panic.[11][12]"
I have capitalized "SOME" and "MANY" here to emphasize the words that I am concerned with. I think it is important to discuss how those words are being chosen in that sentence. To me, the choice of "some" to describe the number of people expressing more condemnatory views on the Knockout Game ("some...report that there has been an escalation", "some [identified] as a hate crime") and the choice of "many" to describe the number of people expressing more skeptical views on the subject ("many...have cast doubt...and have labeled [it] a myth") seem to endorse a particular viewpoint that I do not think is corroborated by the evidence. There does not appear to be any reason to say that those in the skeptical camp are in the majority and that those in the condemnatory camp are in the minority; if anything, based on the news articles I've read (anecdotal, I know), it seems like many more news sources are in the condemnatory camp.
My recommendation is either to make all three instances of "some"/"some"/"many" the same (either "some" or "many" for all three) or to evaluate (in as impartial a way as possible) which kinds of opinions seem to be more commonly expressed in the sources (particularly in mainstream news media) and amend the three instances accordingly. ABarnes94 ( talk) 23:51, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
For whatever reason lately, people have been feeling the need to connect this and every other page that has "knockout" and "game" in the title to each other and this is completely unnecessary. It goes against WP:NAMB, apparently, because no one ending up at this page wanted to go to Knockout (game) or One-game playoff. Such hatnotes are useful on the other pages but not this one, and certainly not one at Knockout (game show) or Knockout (board game). This is getting ridiculous, now that someone has found The Knockout Game was created as a redirect to this page, that the hatnote is suddenly necessary, is nonsense. Until this page is moved to "Knockout game", nothing resembling a hatnote should be added to this article.— Ryulong ( 琉竜) 20:14, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
White guy charged with hate crime in attack on elderly black guy [5] — goethean 19:08, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
I restored the deleted information about federal hate crime charges being filed in one case. But then after I reverted I thought that it was important enough to merit its own sub-section under the Government Action section. Federal hate crime charges are a pretty serious thing, afterall. -- Cirrus Editor ( talk) 23:48, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
This article is not useful to the reader. It is too long. Far too much of the text addresses particular media members' treatment of other media members' actions. Moreover, much of that content lacks a proper foundation. I recommend that the length of this article be shortened by about 67%, which largely can be accomplished by removing the content regarding particular media members' actions, as well as that a substantial edit occur in order to make this concise and efficient. I would be happy to execute the proposed revisions. 71.60.122.8 ( talk) 06:20, 2 February 2014 (UTC)February 2, 2014; 1:20 AM EST.
It should be noted that this is a cultural phenomenon not reserved to the United States, or black people. The Australian "King Hit", for example, seems to be exactly the same. You should consider merging the article with this one, which would deal with both the people who claim it is some odd race hate epidemic and the people who want to claim it is merely an "urban legend".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucker_punch — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.255.76.232 ( talk) 05:06, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
The fact that certain media choose to politicize this issue doesn't make it a political issue. Remove the references to "conservative and liberal" from the article. Landroo ( talk) 14:39, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
The "knockout game" is one of many names given by American news media to assaults in which, purportedly ...
Since this is Wikipedia we cannot call this Polar Bear Hunting because that might cause problems. Since this is Wikipedia we cannot allow readers to understand the source of the problem. Since this is Wikipedia we can scan the universe with an electron microscope to find a counterexample that enables claims which Wikipedia likes, to be made.
But surely, even in the parallel universe that Wikipedia inhabits, there is a real phenomenon. A real phenomenon, that however evasively, inaccurately and one-sidedly described in the article, should have its reality admitted. Just erase the purportedly. AnnaComnemna ( talk) 13:02, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
Purportedly removed since there were no objections, I also removed a comma, sorry about doing this without permission from the zealots. AnnaComnemna ( talk) 09:03, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
"want to highlight attacks on whites by black suspects"
I do not have reliable statistics on these events. If I did have this information, given the unexpected and surprise nature of these violent physical attacks, I would expect a high proportion of victims to be unable to provide any information whatsoever about these criminals.
However if a victim, or a reliable witness, or a video recording, shows that the criminal was black, then there is no suspicion whatsoever. The identity of the assailant maybe be unknown, but their societal origin is. The name of this activity given by the perpetrators is not Black Bear Hunting or Brown Bear Hunting but Polar Bear Hunting, and we all know why. What we do not agree about is whether Wikipedia should state this or not. More fundamentally whether Wikipedia should tell the truth, however unpalatable, or follow a pre-conceived agenda.
Comments please. AnnaComnemna ( talk) 01:58, 5 December 2014 (UTC) No objections, this now reads ..by blacks.
Looking forward to celebrating the birth of baby Jesus. AnnaComnemna ( talk) 13:59, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
Should we include news reporting videos? I found one where perpetrator was caught and convicted. He talks about the game on video. [6]. I'm thinking that a section containing news videos (secondary sources only) would be useful. Rklawton ( talk) 06:10, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
I saw that Criticism Of Reporting section of the article was marked for copyedit. I have made some minor changes to the overall article and have removed the issue. WikiAceBox ( talk) 21:10, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
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Was the murder of Yngve Raustein really an instance of the "knockout game", as is claimed under History of attacks (which further suggests it was the first instance in history)? Asking because the article on the murder (currently) makes no mention of the knockout game, and portrays the murder as a robbery. 95.90.235.121 ( talk) 16:34, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
had conversation w/doorman of my building around that year, seems like he was very familiar with it and it was not a new thing. he said iirc it was something to do when u did not have money to go to the movies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.37.99.86 ( talk) 09:06, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
I have removed the year divisions because they seemed pretty random, it was from 1992 to 2009, 2011 to 2013, and 2013 to 2020. If someone does see a reason behind those dates, please feel free to add them back and I would appreciate knowing the reason. Thanks AdrianHObradors ( talk) 16:57, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
This page has a paragraph with no context of the person making the statement or what the 'London video' is. The source link may have some context but as written it's a non-sequitur.
When Singal approached several local news stations, a representative from an NBC affiliate responded saying that the footage had been taken from a shared pool of stock footage that other NBC stations in the area were given, and generally, if the footage is found to be inaccurate there would be a digital note concerning it. The note was absent in the case of the London video for reasons unknown. Singal's investigation led him to believe that people around the country are being told a story that has not been properly researched.
122.58.216.23 (
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08:37, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
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This is a factually invalid and prejudicial article that does not belong in the encyclopedia. The author cites two alleged cases of this "game" in 19 years. I would ask Wikipedia to avoid carrying articles that attribute behaviors to "teens" (or any other population group) unless the authors can document with valid references (not mere news articles) that they are widespread, common, and occur only among that demographic. Mike Males, YouthFacts.org
This article keeps on being reverted even though the game is predominately "played" by black youths but that note keeps getting removed!
Its time to add the subject of racial violence to this topic. Its quite apparent to even the least educated observer, that this game is predominately played by African American youths against European American whites. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1007:B02C:F37B:A4D7:E5F6:AE51:49E5 ( talk) 17:17, 16 November 2013 (UTC)
The ridiculous self-censorship about the black racists involved is dangerous for the whole Wikipedia. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
151.66.185.0 (
talk)
20:07, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
I think that there has been a range of victims, from "white" people to Asian citizens. The "game", even being played overseas, is not predominately played by one race or another. United States citizens think that only African Americans could be capable of such an act, that is where the true race issue is hidden. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.44.64.132 ( talk) 20:37, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
I think that there has been a range of victims, from "white people to "tan" people. The "game", is played by "black" primarily teen citizens knocking out "non-black" citizens, videoing it and posting it on the internet. The rest is rationalized, revisionist garbage put forth to protect the "game' players. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.225.252.201 ( talk) 18:34, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
I've checked these links pretty carefully. It's clear -- from an encyclopedic point of view -- that we can document a CLAIM that there is a widely-distributed game in which uninvolved people are subjected to vicious unprovoked attacks for the amusement of teen males. This article in its present form affirms that there really is a widespread practice, when the Post-Dispatch article on the Index case was already (very properly) asking whether that view might not be imposing a connecting narrative on random acts of violence. It has all the earmarks of a rumor panic (hints of conspiracy) and it provokes all the usual responses -- just look at the comments section on any of the videos posted. I'm pretty sure you've got an urban legend here, very much like the "Lights Out" type, but the racial violence? That's all in the comments --including the ones here. 150.243.14.35 ( talk) 19:10, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
The story originally linked to http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/11/16/potentially-fatal-knockout-game-targeting-strangers-may-be-spreading-to-d-c/, which identifies the guy in the alley as Ralph Santiago, but in the video, his name is given as James Addlespurger. If you click through to the link about Santiago at NJ.com, there is no mention of this game, but there is another article, now listed, that does mention the game.
I have not checked the other footnotes, but because the entry repeated the erroneous information from the CBS report, I separated the two reports and provided separate links. Cyraxote ( talk) 22:05, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
I've just semi-protected the article for a month, as there's currently a daily barrage of useless, racist vandalism. As there's dialog here on the talk page now, anon editors can feel free to weigh in here instead - Alison ❤ 22:14, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
Good for you. Last thing on planet earth anyone want's is an accurate revision of history. Ignoring the obvious racial component is not racist? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.225.252.201 ( talk) 23:15, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please note that the "knockout game" includes aspects of racial profiling where individuals are targeted based on their race. Also most of the attacks are sucker-punches. This activity is strongly related to racial profiling. It is surprising that this aspect of this article is avoided... it would be like referring to the Nazi death camps without referencing war or Jews. Please have someone look into this post and edit. 71.193.29.244 ( talk) 03:43, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
Not done: Thanks for wanting to improve the article. Suggestions are always welcome and do not require an {{ edit semi-protected}} template. The template is used to allow non-auto-confirmed editors to make specific, detailed edit requests. Those edit requests must be detailed at a "please change X to Y" level and include reliable sources supporting any factual change. Regards, Celestra ( talk) 16:12, 20 November 2013 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
The knockout game, also known as polar bear hunting, is overwhelmingly perpetrated by blacks on white victims. 74.213.33.235 ( talk) 20:15, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
Whether or not these other articles are referring to the same thing, they use the same name or something similar like "polar bear hunting" (possibly a term purposely inflamatory created by media sensationalists) and it is allegedly played similarly. I, for one, would like these articles referenced in the wiki page along with that previous one from 1992. If nothing else they can be evidence of past attacks either mistakenly attributed or possibly adding to the evidence of this not being a new game.
Whatever your feelings, we all know deep inside that this does in fact have a racial component. Certainly it is not an organized movement against whites by blacks, but the perpetrators just simply ARE black youths. I have a problem with the word "conservative" being used in the article. Why not just say something like "some commentators"? Adding the word conservative seems to be a slimy attempt to discredit the points that follow it. Hope more editors are concerned enough to offer their input on this article. 24.60.214.65 ( talk) 04:09, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
I don't see any conservative media analysts calling it a myth or an urban legend, using the exact logic that see's coservative inserted in the body. I inserted liberal into the lead. Only liberal media analysts believe it is a myth. Before it vanishes better come up with some great spin why one should stay and the other go as numerous liberals as pointed out below and elsewhere have certainly acknowledged they believe this myth being perpertraed by the conservative media(according to the spinbots around here) exists. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.88.4.211 ( talk) 06:39, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
Well, the Washington Post published an article today discussing this very topic. http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/crime/district-police-investigating-random-attacks-similar-to-knockout-game/2013/11/21/ca9e26c2-5154-11e3-9fe0-fd2ca728e67c_story.html
The WP is certainly considered to be left-leaning. Geraldo Rivera also discussed this on the O'Reilly Factor on 11/22/13, with Laura Ingraham. I wouldn't say Rivera is a liberal, but he certainly cannot be called a "conservative commentator". I understand the resistance to acknowledge this topic's racial component - race is an understandably loaded addition to any conversation - but the claim that only conservative commentators are talking about this is not accurate. 24.60.214.65 ( talk) 05:09, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
In the case of Michael Daniels, both boys plead guilty, and were sentenced to 1.5 years prison. [ Attacks around US probed for link to knockout game] 99.163.118.77 ( talk) 04:41, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
Saying these attacks are racially motivated is completely dishonest as no one can prove that all victims have been white. There have been multiple victims of all races in these attacks. Adding information on what Conservative pundits are saying about black youths only attacking white victims does nothing but add prejudice to the article as it is not true. Dumaka ( talk) 16:47, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
It likely is not racially motivated in the sense that certain black individuals organize and seek to target whites in a concerted effort. However, of the reported cases by any news outlet I'm aware of, the very significant majority of these cases have been committed by young black individuals against non-black individuals. The idea that this "game" is just a fantasy ginned-up by certain Conservative pundits is demonstrably false. As another editor posted on this page, a convicted participant of this "game" has already acknowledged it as such. Are we to believe that this individual and his group of friends created this "game" themselves, and that all of the other reported cases are just coincidental?
24.60.214.65 ( talk) 05:24, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
-- 96.247.231.243 ( talk) 00:47, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
According to the New York Times, the Pittsburgh police say there is no evidence that James Addlespurger's assault was part of any "knockout game." (starts in 15th graf): http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/23/nyregion/knockout-game-a-spreading-menace-or-a-myth.html?_r=0 That article also points out that many in law enforcement believe this game is an urban myth. The article should be edited to include this information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.66.9.21 ( talk) 16:17, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
Watch the attack of James Addlespurger on video as difficult as that happens to be. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nPbnOmntdY Oh they didn't hang a banner calling it the knockout game? So weird how it closely resembles it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.225.252.201 ( talk) 08:12, 22 December 2013 (UTC)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2511302/Teenager-wildly-attacking-strangers-street-days-murdered-man-single-punch-personalised-bomb-attack.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.90.51.210 ( talk) 17:59, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
This particular incident hardly belongs in the article except as an example of the creation of the myth of the crime: Eden Lomax didn't choose a random victim, he punched a man he'd been having a lengthy conversation with after an imagined provocation. Similarly his previous two "bombs" were delivered to people who interacted with him and whom he felt had provoked him (according to the linked references). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.246.2.239 ( talk) 14:21, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
As Ryulong is insistent on edit warring I decided to write a smaller lead to go with the longer section on the details. Here is the lead. "The status of Knockout has ranged from urban myth to an actual game, with police grappling with how to advise the public on the subject or if they are different from random assaults. Police in Syracuse have stated that the assailant in one fatal attack was playing the Knockout game. Fears about the spread of the game has been covered in conservative political media, but this has been attributed to stemming from racial roots. Victims and perpetrators involved in "Knockout" indicate that it is not purely a black on white crime." How's it look? ChrisGualtieri ( talk) 18:52, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
"Knockout (violent game)" does not really work as a neutral article title. It suggests that the game is something that exists, which many sources are not clear on, and "violent" while being an accurate description of the event does not really work in an article title.— Ryulong ( 琉竜) 20:00, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was not moved. -- BDD ( talk) 00:50, 3 December 2013 (UTC)
Knockout (violent game) → Knockout (assault) – I'm turning this into a proper move discussion. As previously stated, disambiguating this item as a "violent game" does not meet WP:NPOV and treats it as something that it is not, as far as I can tell from reliable sources. I believe that disambiguating this as a type of "assault" or maybe even a "criminal trend" (although I'm not as fond as the latter) will make the article more neutral and may help to stem the vandalism that struck it in the past. — Ryulong ( 琉竜) 20:16, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's policy on article titles.ASSAULT noun 1 a physical attack : his imprisonment for an assault on the film director | sexual assaults. • Law an act, criminal or tortious, that threatens physical harm to a person, whether or not actual harm is done : he appeared in court charged with assault. • a military attack or raid on an enemy position : troops began an assault on the city | [as adj. ] an assault boat. • a strong verbal attack : the assault on the party's tax policies. 2 a concerted attempt to do something demanding : a winter assault on Mt. Everest.
GAME noun 1 a form of play or sport, esp. a competitive one played according to rules and decided by skill, strength, or luck. • a complete episode or period of play, typically ending in a definite result : a baseball game. • a single portion of play forming a scoring unit in a match, esp. in tennis. • Bridge a score of 100 points for tricks bid and made (the best of three games constituting a rubber). • a person's performance in a game; a person's standard or method of play : he will attempt to raise his game to another level.
Yours, GeorgeLouis ( talk) 22:41, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
Both. Sadly to say. It is a game of attackers, involving the assault of bystanders. Otherwise, if you really want to use just one word for the label, why not crime? KyuuA4 ( Talk:キュウ) 09:18, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
This game was played in Brooklyn and probably other places in NYC in the 80's, and I suspect it probably goes back further. Back then the attacks were predominately black males on black males. You can probably corroborate this by talking to 40 something year old and older prison inmates from NYC. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Crazywayno ( talk • contribs) 17:06, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
This needs to be renamed KNOCKOUT (violent ASSULT) because that is what it is! It is NOT a game in any way, shape, or form. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Summerluvr2 ( talk • contribs) 20:40, 24 November 2013 (UTC)
The motive is to knockout the victim, not to rob. Therefore it is a game, a sick game, but a game. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.181.178.243 ( talk) 09:20, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
OK, I propose Knockout game, since that is what many sources call it. GeorgeLouis ( talk) 06:02, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Whether a game or not, this is what it's commonly referred to. The Choking game is another example of a "game" not in the traditional sense. It's not like youths are getting together "playing" a "game" of competition, it's just another contrived way to get a thrill. -- 68.81.41.132 ( talk) 04:53, 1 December 2013 (UTC)me
This really doesn't do anything to improve the article and will simply become a place for anyone and everyone to list events that the media have linked to this alleged trend. It should really go. The events themselves can be incorporated into the article as a whole, but the list format is not helping anyone.— Ryulong ( 琉竜) 20:19, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
I've deleted a reported instance of an assault by teenagers upon a man because nobody in the source called it part of the Knockout phenomenon. See the history here. Shouldn't we insist that a source term it "knockout" before using it? GeorgeLouis ( talk) 22:48, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
http://news.awfbase.com/content/knockout-game-turns-deadly-60-year-old-woman-shoots-and-kills-2-teens-after-being-punched -- 88.153.25.240 ( talk) 10:19, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
This has been proven to be false. http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/montgomery.asp 74.110.13.227 ( talk) 17:44, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
The heading indicates it will describe incidents resulting in serious injuries, but the only article clearly states that the attacker was not seriously injured.
-- Mfwills ( talk) 18:11, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
If you read the article, it clearly cites numerous examples of serious resulting injuries. Including actual deaths.
24.60.214.65 ( talk) 03:09, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
We need to get our legal terms straight, here. What we are talking about is not an " Assault" in the legal sense. The activity described herein is " Battery". Please read the two linked two articles to get a better understanding. In brief, though, assault does not involve touching. Battery does. e.g.
A Wikipedia article on knockout game and not a single mention of "black" or "African American". Wow, how surprising! Behemoth ( talk) 23:07, 25 November 2013 (UTC)
Really? It doesn't look that way. With 99z% of the it's a myth/panic believers being the liberal media and the it's reality being the conservative media and the liberal politicians it is extremely difficult to maintain the preposterous idea that the, it's a myth/panic is somehow the mainstream POV with the conservative POV being the minority as the page was previously construed. Why a spinbot feels a need to edit without even a hint of anything beyond-I don't like only it knows. Yes, spinbot, NYTimes, Daily Beast, Slate and Melanie Eversly are liberal. Melanie Zeversly=Reporter/blogger at USA Today with focus on civil rights and social issues— Preceding
unsigned comment added by
208.88.4.211 (
talk)
20:03, 27 December 2013 (UTC)
I don't know why this is in the article or why some comment can be equated to some new spur-of-the-moment effect to draw a parallel between this and "Miley Cyrus". I've removed it. Since TV coverage is ramping up this article might need to be watched a bit more heavily. ChrisGualtieri ( talk) 05:09, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
Proposed name change to Knockout (crime). The "game" element appears to be one view of such attacks. As the article appears now, knockout incidents are "violent activity", most often treated as crimes. Whether it's a "game" that is "played" in urban areas, or a hate crime targeting non-Blacks, is still subject to debate.
If we change the name of the article to the more NPOV Knockout (crime), we'd solve some of the issues with the article.
I'd change it myself, but I'd like to do so only after reaching consensus.
Thanks, I.am.a.qwerty ( talk) 14:49, 26 November 2013 (UTC)
If it's not a legal term for an actual crime, I support changing the name of this article to Knockout (battery) instead because allowing this to remain labeled as a 'game' is spreading the trend. It's sickos getting off on hurting and killing other people, not a game. It needs to be STOPPED, not spread further. KellyLeighC ( talk) 15:10, 2 June 2016 (UTC)
This was always the problem. It isn't a game. There is no game. There's just racially motivated attacks that have been carried out for at least (documented) a quarter of a century just solely for the fun of it. The 'game' aspect might be that it is 'fun' to predate on whites, asians, and Jews. But it's not a game, just racist attacks. 2001:8003:2953:1900:D2F:299B:F522:C6C8 ( talk) 18:34, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
This looks and smells like a legend, one of the few that's actually urban and about urban life, though [rumor panic] is probably the more precise category. I know of folklorists who are at work on the subject now, but of course it won't be citable until the work's made public. Meanwhile, here's a reliable source that can be used to document the fact that there are responsible sources who question the reality of any widespread "game," and suggest that a regrettably ordinary type of motiveless assault is being retroactively assimilated to the category. Of course, there is no surprise if a certain number of bad actors are moved by all this publicity to play the game in real life, a phenomenon called [ostension] in folkloristics. It should get an article if it doesn't have one. [4] 184.155.85.14 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 19:26, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
St. Louis Circuit Attorney Jennifer Joyce acknowledges the existence of Knockout King, based on admissions by five defendants. Most of those defendants were charged with misdemeanor assaults, Joyce says.
and St. Louis Metro PD Chief Daniel Isom
"The 'knockout game' is played by a group of kids who, as outrageous as it sounds, go around with the goal of knocking people out, for apparently no reason," says Chief Daniel Isom.
suggesting the game is a distinct trend. There are other statements by witnesses, victims and the police in the other articles cited on the main page under the list of deadly attacks, which are too numerous to detail here. To label this game an "urban legend" is to communicate to the reader that these first-hand accounts are about as believable as a "Nessie" sighting, or that the parties have grossly misinterpreted their own experiences. That's not neutral. The sources cited in the article aren't treating this as folklore or a part of folk culture, they're primarily looking at it as a crime trend, a trend which implicates questions of racial disparity and public policy. Unlike with most urban legends or modern folklore, not only is there documentary evidence here (the numerous videos replayed by TV news affiliates, most of which originated as viral videos on YouTube, WorldStarHipHop, Facebook, other social media) but the documentary evidence is at the very heart of the controversy. This is closer to a something like a "meme" than an "urban legend", both in how the game is spread and transmitted among players and how knowledge of the game rapidly and unexpectedly spread through digital social media. SierraOccidental ( talk) 07:58, 28 November 2013 (UTC)
I disagree with the statement "None of this discussion really helps to improve the article". Having read the article & several of the citations, as well as all these Talk page comments, I feel that this is all very constructive dialog. Here are a few points that I believe we editors should focus on :
My edits will be guided by the above rationale. I welcome & encourage further thoughtful discussion here on how we should proceed. Brad ( talk) 23:23, 29 November 2013 (UTC)
and has been tagged as such. Checkingfax ( talk) 04:28, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
This article specifically notes one (1) instance of the "Knockout game" in which the alleged perpetrators are identified as "white".
This is the only instance in which the article sees fit to identify the ethnicity of the alleged perpetrators.
The identity of all the other perpetrators - the very fact in contention - isn't fitting to disclose.
What a telling anomaly. 144.131.202.238 ( talk) 04:36, 30 November 2013 (UTC)
Finally, a white perpetrator has been found, so that the race of the perpetrator can be identified in the article. This proves that not hate crimes have been carried out by white people. 121.222.237.91 ( talk) 03:09, 30 December 2013 (UTC)
The article should be updated to reflect the recent Knockout Game-related legislation introduced in NY. Assemblyman Jim Tedisco and Senator Hugh T. Farley introduced the Knockout Game Deterrent Act in the NY State Assembly and Senate. [1] [2]
Representative Dean Kaufert in Wisconsin has publicly stated he is considering the introduction of similar measures that would increase penalties for Knockout-style attacks.[3] [4]
Also, it may be notable to mention that the National Action Network had a rally in Brooklyn, NY to protest the recent spate of Knockout-related attacks and to call on social media to take down online videos of the attacks. The National Action Network is notable as it is headed by civil rights activist Al Sharpton, of MSNBC fame. [5]
[1]
http://www.nysenate.gov/news/senator-farley-joins-assemblyman-tedisco-lead-senate-sponsor-knockout-game-deterrent-act
[2]
http://wnyt.com/article/stories/s3228303.shtml?cat=300
[3]
http://www.twincities.com/news/ci_24612688/kaufert-considers-bill-targeting-knockout-game
[4]
http://www.afro.com/sections/news/afro_briefs/story.htm?storyid=80582
[5]
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nyc-crime/elderly-woman-city-10th-knockout-game-victim-article-1.1532989
--00:38, 1 December 2013 (UTC) PacificRepublic ( talk)
A recently-elected NYC councilwoman released an open letter on Dec 4 2013 discussing growing resentment by her black constituents towards her Jewish constituents as a possible factor behind Knockout attacks by young blacks on white citizens:
My sense is this Wikipedia article needs to de-emphasize the "myth" hypothesis. Police officials & elected politicians are taking the attacks seriously. I'm looking for a good page on racial tension to link to. Brad ( talk) 01:53, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
Trends don't require links between instances. Trends only require a change in frequency. Rklawton ( talk) 17:45, 5 December 2013 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved to Knockout game. While there is a fair bit of duscussion, there is a consensus, if not a strong consensus, that "Knockout game" is the WP:COMMONAME for this. The Bushranger One ping only 23:58, 5 February 2014 (UTC)
Please indicate what title you would prefer for this article. There is some discussion above under "Title issues" that might help. There is no particular form for this section. It is just a way of getting consensus on a title, including retaining the present one. Place comments and suggestions below. If you believe we have reached WP: consensus you may change the title yourself, or you can ask an administrator to take some action, including ending the discussion. If you disagree with this formula, then by all means suggest another one. Thank you. GeorgeLouis ( talk) 07:08, 8 December 2013 (UTC)
There is no need to fill this article with direct quotations of the sources we are citing in order to make it appear that this does not meet WP:Recentism. There's nothing we can do about that. This is something that's appeared in the news. Also, there is absolutely no reason to spend so much text on happy slapping which has its own article and is completely unrelated to the knockout game.— Ryulong ( 琉竜) 07:42, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
Why is the racial aspect of this crime being thrown under the bus? The overwhelming majority of these cases are being committed by blacks. -- 140.32.16.3 ( talk) 04:26, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
Race is not mentioned at all until the section titled "Race" where conservative and liberal viewpoints on the topic of race and the "knockout game" are described.— Ryulong ( 琉竜) 09:11, 12 December 2013 (UTC)The "knockout game" is one of many names given to assaults in which, purportedly, one or more assailants attempt to knock out an unsuspecting victim, often with a single sucker punch, all for the amusement of the attackers and their accomplices.
The last sentence of the introductory paragraph currently reads: "While SOME news sources report that there has been an escalation of such attacks in late 2013, with identifying SOME as a hate crime and/or a crime requiring new targeted legislation,[4][7][8] MANY media analysts have cast doubt on this and have labeled the trend, although not the reported attacks themselves, a myth[9][10] or an example of panic.[11][12]"
I have capitalized "SOME" and "MANY" here to emphasize the words that I am concerned with. I think it is important to discuss how those words are being chosen in that sentence. To me, the choice of "some" to describe the number of people expressing more condemnatory views on the Knockout Game ("some...report that there has been an escalation", "some [identified] as a hate crime") and the choice of "many" to describe the number of people expressing more skeptical views on the subject ("many...have cast doubt...and have labeled [it] a myth") seem to endorse a particular viewpoint that I do not think is corroborated by the evidence. There does not appear to be any reason to say that those in the skeptical camp are in the majority and that those in the condemnatory camp are in the minority; if anything, based on the news articles I've read (anecdotal, I know), it seems like many more news sources are in the condemnatory camp.
My recommendation is either to make all three instances of "some"/"some"/"many" the same (either "some" or "many" for all three) or to evaluate (in as impartial a way as possible) which kinds of opinions seem to be more commonly expressed in the sources (particularly in mainstream news media) and amend the three instances accordingly. ABarnes94 ( talk) 23:51, 12 December 2013 (UTC)
For whatever reason lately, people have been feeling the need to connect this and every other page that has "knockout" and "game" in the title to each other and this is completely unnecessary. It goes against WP:NAMB, apparently, because no one ending up at this page wanted to go to Knockout (game) or One-game playoff. Such hatnotes are useful on the other pages but not this one, and certainly not one at Knockout (game show) or Knockout (board game). This is getting ridiculous, now that someone has found The Knockout Game was created as a redirect to this page, that the hatnote is suddenly necessary, is nonsense. Until this page is moved to "Knockout game", nothing resembling a hatnote should be added to this article.— Ryulong ( 琉竜) 20:14, 14 December 2013 (UTC)
White guy charged with hate crime in attack on elderly black guy [5] — goethean 19:08, 26 December 2013 (UTC)
I restored the deleted information about federal hate crime charges being filed in one case. But then after I reverted I thought that it was important enough to merit its own sub-section under the Government Action section. Federal hate crime charges are a pretty serious thing, afterall. -- Cirrus Editor ( talk) 23:48, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
This article is not useful to the reader. It is too long. Far too much of the text addresses particular media members' treatment of other media members' actions. Moreover, much of that content lacks a proper foundation. I recommend that the length of this article be shortened by about 67%, which largely can be accomplished by removing the content regarding particular media members' actions, as well as that a substantial edit occur in order to make this concise and efficient. I would be happy to execute the proposed revisions. 71.60.122.8 ( talk) 06:20, 2 February 2014 (UTC)February 2, 2014; 1:20 AM EST.
It should be noted that this is a cultural phenomenon not reserved to the United States, or black people. The Australian "King Hit", for example, seems to be exactly the same. You should consider merging the article with this one, which would deal with both the people who claim it is some odd race hate epidemic and the people who want to claim it is merely an "urban legend".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sucker_punch — Preceding unsigned comment added by 27.255.76.232 ( talk) 05:06, 26 May 2014 (UTC)
The fact that certain media choose to politicize this issue doesn't make it a political issue. Remove the references to "conservative and liberal" from the article. Landroo ( talk) 14:39, 30 October 2014 (UTC)
The "knockout game" is one of many names given by American news media to assaults in which, purportedly ...
Since this is Wikipedia we cannot call this Polar Bear Hunting because that might cause problems. Since this is Wikipedia we cannot allow readers to understand the source of the problem. Since this is Wikipedia we can scan the universe with an electron microscope to find a counterexample that enables claims which Wikipedia likes, to be made.
But surely, even in the parallel universe that Wikipedia inhabits, there is a real phenomenon. A real phenomenon, that however evasively, inaccurately and one-sidedly described in the article, should have its reality admitted. Just erase the purportedly. AnnaComnemna ( talk) 13:02, 30 November 2014 (UTC)
Purportedly removed since there were no objections, I also removed a comma, sorry about doing this without permission from the zealots. AnnaComnemna ( talk) 09:03, 2 December 2014 (UTC)
"want to highlight attacks on whites by black suspects"
I do not have reliable statistics on these events. If I did have this information, given the unexpected and surprise nature of these violent physical attacks, I would expect a high proportion of victims to be unable to provide any information whatsoever about these criminals.
However if a victim, or a reliable witness, or a video recording, shows that the criminal was black, then there is no suspicion whatsoever. The identity of the assailant maybe be unknown, but their societal origin is. The name of this activity given by the perpetrators is not Black Bear Hunting or Brown Bear Hunting but Polar Bear Hunting, and we all know why. What we do not agree about is whether Wikipedia should state this or not. More fundamentally whether Wikipedia should tell the truth, however unpalatable, or follow a pre-conceived agenda.
Comments please. AnnaComnemna ( talk) 01:58, 5 December 2014 (UTC) No objections, this now reads ..by blacks.
Looking forward to celebrating the birth of baby Jesus. AnnaComnemna ( talk) 13:59, 13 December 2014 (UTC)
Should we include news reporting videos? I found one where perpetrator was caught and convicted. He talks about the game on video. [6]. I'm thinking that a section containing news videos (secondary sources only) would be useful. Rklawton ( talk) 06:10, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
I saw that Criticism Of Reporting section of the article was marked for copyedit. I have made some minor changes to the overall article and have removed the issue. WikiAceBox ( talk) 21:10, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
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Was the murder of Yngve Raustein really an instance of the "knockout game", as is claimed under History of attacks (which further suggests it was the first instance in history)? Asking because the article on the murder (currently) makes no mention of the knockout game, and portrays the murder as a robbery. 95.90.235.121 ( talk) 16:34, 29 December 2020 (UTC)
had conversation w/doorman of my building around that year, seems like he was very familiar with it and it was not a new thing. he said iirc it was something to do when u did not have money to go to the movies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.37.99.86 ( talk) 09:06, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
I have removed the year divisions because they seemed pretty random, it was from 1992 to 2009, 2011 to 2013, and 2013 to 2020. If someone does see a reason behind those dates, please feel free to add them back and I would appreciate knowing the reason. Thanks AdrianHObradors ( talk) 16:57, 30 May 2022 (UTC)
This page has a paragraph with no context of the person making the statement or what the 'London video' is. The source link may have some context but as written it's a non-sequitur.
When Singal approached several local news stations, a representative from an NBC affiliate responded saying that the footage had been taken from a shared pool of stock footage that other NBC stations in the area were given, and generally, if the footage is found to be inaccurate there would be a digital note concerning it. The note was absent in the case of the London video for reasons unknown. Singal's investigation led him to believe that people around the country are being told a story that has not been properly researched.
122.58.216.23 (
talk)
08:37, 3 July 2022 (UTC)