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Removed category criminal. It is not correct to have Røkke in that category. That someone have served jailtime does not mean that they are criminals, so this category should not by any means be in this article. Ulflarsen ( talk) 21:55, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Røkke can in my opinion not be listed as a criminal, and as the user that has changed the content of the article has not engaged in discussing it before he added it I have listed the article on Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard so it can be checked and corrected. Ulflarsen ( talk) 15:37, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
To Momoricks: I am fully aware of that content on a page should be discussed on its discussionpage, but to achieve a meaningful discussion one have to have a counterpart that engages. The user Moshe Sharon III that reverted my removal of the labeling of Mr Røkke as a criminal did not engage, on the contrary he left the following edit summary: "Rv vandalism/removal of verified notable information".
From that I could see no other action but to try to get other editors involved, I am not going to revert/remove as I believe this could only result in another revert from said user. So it is really up to other users to change this, if they find that labeling a person criminal for being in prison for such a short time is meaningless. Ulflarsen ( talk) 05:32, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
This is the change I did to the article. What I removed was infobox criminal and category criminal + some detail that he ordered pizza's to his fellow inmates. I did not remove information about the criminal case as it clearly should be there, given the massive media attention to it in Norway.
I have not argued against having information about the criminal case and his conviction, but in the larger picture it does not mean he is a criminal, so it is wrong to label him as that. Mr. Røkke is a well integrated, respected man in Norwegian society, while the picture this article gives is that he is a criminal. So again, the category criminal should be removed and the infobox criminal should be removed and there should be a infobox businessman, which is what he is known as and is most successful as. Ulflarsen ( talk) 09:15, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Using {{ Infobox Criminal}} is absurd, as Mr. Røkke primarily is known as a seafood and shipbuilding tycoon (and as a football investor). 24 days in prison for a crime not related to his work does not change that. -- Kjetil r ( talk) 09:26, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
For Category:American criminals it is stipulated that: «For inclusion in this category, a person must: Have been [...] convicted of a notable felony [...] or Have committed notable and unambiguously verifiable felony criminal acts». From Category talk:American criminals I see no reason why the quoted part of the stipulation should not hold for other nationalities as well. I further see no reason why the felony in question should be considered notable, any more than Barack Obama's cocaine use. And you don't see him categorized as a criminal. And of course he shouldn't be. That would be absurd. About as absurd as this. Likewise, categorizing him as a «prisoner or detainee» would be as absurd as categorizing Paris Hilton and Martin Luther King, Jr. as such. So yeah, get rid of those categories. — the Sidhekin ( talk) 13:20, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
The infobox criminal has been removed, now its only the category criminal left, I still believe it does not in any way fit here as I have argued extensively above. If there is no arguments for keeping this category I suggest it is removed. Ulflarsen ( talk) 16:19, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
I apologize for any misunderstanding related to my comment at the top of this section. It is in reference to the note by Meco that includes the link to the WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography talk page. Meco asked a question there related to this article's infobox and a project member answered. That's fine; however, Ulflarsen later added their opinion on the matter, which should be kept to this page per WP:MULTI.
If I may offer my opinion regarding the infobox and categories, currently the article establishes Røkke's notability as a businessman who is involved with association football clubs, although this information needs more citations. The information regarding his criminal conviction is one sentence, which suggests it is notable enough to mention but has little to do with his overall notability. Therefore, the person infobox appears to be the most appropriate one for this article.
Regarding the article's categories, Wikipedia:Categorization_of_people#Biographies_of_living_people states "Category:Criminals should only be added if the incident is relevant to the person's notability; it has been published by reliable third-party sources; the subject was convicted; and the conviction was not overturned on appeal."
If there continues to be differing opinions on the infobox and categories, you may want to open an RfC. momoricks (make my day) 00:43, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Apparently, there has been a campaign over at the Norwegian Wikipedia, where contributors have been recruited to remove categories from this article or support such removals. Kjell Inge Røkke has been convicted of bribing a public official and has served time in prison, this is verified information, and it's not trivial, but rather serious. Other public persons who are criminally convicted are systematically categorized as criminals, without exception, at least if they are Americans or otherwise known to an English-speaking audience ( Lewis Libby, who hasn't even been in prison). It seems Kjell Inge Røkke is getting special treatment because he is a rich person (and few non-Norwegians know about him and care about the article)? It's not the first time, though, he also got special treatment in prison and was allowed to order pizzas, which other inmates are not allowed [1]. Moshe Sharon III ( talk) 15:16, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I post here a recent article describing that Røkke is predisposed to present himself in a very immature, and often threatening, manner when things are not going the way he wants them to. It may be regarded as an opinion piece, however it is written by Aftenposten's Moscow correspondent who, according to his own say-so spent a decade basically chronicling Røkke's career. BLP issues suggest to me this nevertheless is insufficient for using it to reference any additions of negative details about Røkke's personality. If other sources attesting to the same should surface, however, this may become a viable topic for article inclusion. __ meco ( talk) 10:53, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
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This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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|
It is requested that an image or photograph be
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media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
Removed category criminal. It is not correct to have Røkke in that category. That someone have served jailtime does not mean that they are criminals, so this category should not by any means be in this article. Ulflarsen ( talk) 21:55, 28 May 2008 (UTC)
Røkke can in my opinion not be listed as a criminal, and as the user that has changed the content of the article has not engaged in discussing it before he added it I have listed the article on Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard so it can be checked and corrected. Ulflarsen ( talk) 15:37, 18 March 2009 (UTC)
To Momoricks: I am fully aware of that content on a page should be discussed on its discussionpage, but to achieve a meaningful discussion one have to have a counterpart that engages. The user Moshe Sharon III that reverted my removal of the labeling of Mr Røkke as a criminal did not engage, on the contrary he left the following edit summary: "Rv vandalism/removal of verified notable information".
From that I could see no other action but to try to get other editors involved, I am not going to revert/remove as I believe this could only result in another revert from said user. So it is really up to other users to change this, if they find that labeling a person criminal for being in prison for such a short time is meaningless. Ulflarsen ( talk) 05:32, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
This is the change I did to the article. What I removed was infobox criminal and category criminal + some detail that he ordered pizza's to his fellow inmates. I did not remove information about the criminal case as it clearly should be there, given the massive media attention to it in Norway.
I have not argued against having information about the criminal case and his conviction, but in the larger picture it does not mean he is a criminal, so it is wrong to label him as that. Mr. Røkke is a well integrated, respected man in Norwegian society, while the picture this article gives is that he is a criminal. So again, the category criminal should be removed and the infobox criminal should be removed and there should be a infobox businessman, which is what he is known as and is most successful as. Ulflarsen ( talk) 09:15, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
Using {{ Infobox Criminal}} is absurd, as Mr. Røkke primarily is known as a seafood and shipbuilding tycoon (and as a football investor). 24 days in prison for a crime not related to his work does not change that. -- Kjetil r ( talk) 09:26, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
For Category:American criminals it is stipulated that: «For inclusion in this category, a person must: Have been [...] convicted of a notable felony [...] or Have committed notable and unambiguously verifiable felony criminal acts». From Category talk:American criminals I see no reason why the quoted part of the stipulation should not hold for other nationalities as well. I further see no reason why the felony in question should be considered notable, any more than Barack Obama's cocaine use. And you don't see him categorized as a criminal. And of course he shouldn't be. That would be absurd. About as absurd as this. Likewise, categorizing him as a «prisoner or detainee» would be as absurd as categorizing Paris Hilton and Martin Luther King, Jr. as such. So yeah, get rid of those categories. — the Sidhekin ( talk) 13:20, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
The infobox criminal has been removed, now its only the category criminal left, I still believe it does not in any way fit here as I have argued extensively above. If there is no arguments for keeping this category I suggest it is removed. Ulflarsen ( talk) 16:19, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
I apologize for any misunderstanding related to my comment at the top of this section. It is in reference to the note by Meco that includes the link to the WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography talk page. Meco asked a question there related to this article's infobox and a project member answered. That's fine; however, Ulflarsen later added their opinion on the matter, which should be kept to this page per WP:MULTI.
If I may offer my opinion regarding the infobox and categories, currently the article establishes Røkke's notability as a businessman who is involved with association football clubs, although this information needs more citations. The information regarding his criminal conviction is one sentence, which suggests it is notable enough to mention but has little to do with his overall notability. Therefore, the person infobox appears to be the most appropriate one for this article.
Regarding the article's categories, Wikipedia:Categorization_of_people#Biographies_of_living_people states "Category:Criminals should only be added if the incident is relevant to the person's notability; it has been published by reliable third-party sources; the subject was convicted; and the conviction was not overturned on appeal."
If there continues to be differing opinions on the infobox and categories, you may want to open an RfC. momoricks (make my day) 00:43, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Apparently, there has been a campaign over at the Norwegian Wikipedia, where contributors have been recruited to remove categories from this article or support such removals. Kjell Inge Røkke has been convicted of bribing a public official and has served time in prison, this is verified information, and it's not trivial, but rather serious. Other public persons who are criminally convicted are systematically categorized as criminals, without exception, at least if they are Americans or otherwise known to an English-speaking audience ( Lewis Libby, who hasn't even been in prison). It seems Kjell Inge Røkke is getting special treatment because he is a rich person (and few non-Norwegians know about him and care about the article)? It's not the first time, though, he also got special treatment in prison and was allowed to order pizzas, which other inmates are not allowed [1]. Moshe Sharon III ( talk) 15:16, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
I post here a recent article describing that Røkke is predisposed to present himself in a very immature, and often threatening, manner when things are not going the way he wants them to. It may be regarded as an opinion piece, however it is written by Aftenposten's Moscow correspondent who, according to his own say-so spent a decade basically chronicling Røkke's career. BLP issues suggest to me this nevertheless is insufficient for using it to reference any additions of negative details about Røkke's personality. If other sources attesting to the same should surface, however, this may become a viable topic for article inclusion. __ meco ( talk) 10:53, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 6 external links on Kjell Inge Røkke. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 23:13, 6 May 2017 (UTC)