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to merge with Polovtsian? Mikkalai 09:08, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Sorry if the move from 'Kypchak' to 'Kipchak' offended anyone. It's simply that 'Kipchak' is the commonest form of the name, and that most frequently encountered in academic publications (it's taken from Russian - Кипчак - rather than Kazakh or Uzbek). One advantage of this is that one avoids becoming embroiled in nationalist debate about transliteration, as both the Uzbeks and Kazakhs have a claim on the Kipchak heritage, and they do not transliterate in the same way (or, indeed, consistently). If we really want to be accurate then it ought to be 'Qipchaq/Qypchaq', but this seems to be getting into the realms of pedantry. If people feel strongly about this then it can be left, but on the whole using the most familiar form of a word seems to me to be a good rule of thumb. ( Sikandarji 14:21, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC))
I've consulted further with a friend of mine who speaks both Uzbek and Kazakh, and it seems that the spelling 'Kypchak' is really rather misleading. It's true that "ы" is normally transliterated as "y" in Russian, but the sound represented by the same cyrillic letter in Kazakh is quite different, not a Russian "uy" but the Turkic back-vowel "u" (as in 'put') which in modern Turkish in the latin script is represented by an "i" without a dot. Accordingly I still think "Kipchak" is the best spelling, whereas "Kypchak" is a wholly unfamiliar form of the word, and is no more accurate as a transliteration. {{ Sikandarji 23:40, 22 Feb 2005 (UTC)}}
They arrived in the steppes of the northern shore of the Black Sea during the 11th century. In 1068 they win Russian army on the river of the Alta, devastated the Russian borderland. The Dasht-e Kipchak (the Kipchak' plains, polovetskaya step is the steppes von the Volga, Don, Azov regions). Don't rv it. Ben-Velvel 22:20, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
please write about it, the kipchaks were known before under the name sir from orkhon-enisey inscriptions. 24.218.8.72 05:28, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I think the Cumans article should be merged into this one. After all, aren't both terms different denominations for the same people? Rsazevedo ( talk) 17:05, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Cumans are surely just the western branch of Kipchaks, therefore Cumans and Kipchaks are not the same. Spring01 ( talk) 23:45, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Cumans are just the western part of Kipchaks if you like it or not. So Cumans does not equal Kipchaks. Therefore having just one article wouldn`t be very encyclopedic. Spring01 ( talk) 01:35, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi all. I am Romanian, and thus directly concerned about this snippet of history, and I would like to give my view on the issue: While we can all see that the Cumans (or however you wanna write this) were part of the Kipchaks, I do not think it would be the best solution to merge this article under Kipchacks, OR Russian History, for that matter. I will illustrate why not - it would be the same as saying "well, since Turkey, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, etc., are all Turkic people, why would we need to separate them?". The difference comes not from ethnicity, but from what they did from the moment they separated from the main group, politically, organizationally, militarily, etc. History is all about evolution, and while I think it would be a great idea to link all these domains (russian history, turkic heritage, black sea history, etc), I do not think subordinating entire populations to some ethnic tribe half way across the world helps have a better idea of the history of a specific area. ... at least for the fact that Cumans played an important role in the birth of Walachia, and so it should be "findable" easily. Thanks :-) Fotescu, March 4, 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fotescu ( talk • contribs) 12:58, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm Hungarian. Merging the Kuns with the Kipchaks would be Like merging the Hungarians with the Oghuz Turks being that they split from them. The only difference is that the Cuman empire didn't survive. They still deserve a separate chapter as they were in history.
I'm inclined to agree to not merge. If the Cumans were a subgroup of the Kipchaks then they are not all the Kipchaks. There seems to be sufficient material to establish that they at least had their own historical development, even if the broader matters of language and culture did not diverge so much. There are many articles on wikipedia covering subsets of larger ethnic groups. Totnesmartin ( talk) 10:39, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
Do not merge! This merger is aimed at undermining the role of Christianity among Cumans and in the Steppes before the affirmation of Islam in the 15th century! Historical truth should be the only motive, not politics, please! 15.195.185.83 ( talk) 14:02, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
I removed the ethnicity section, since it was a very unconstructive work of vandalism. It had no references whatsoever and it put up wild unsupported theories about racial issues of Cumans and Kipchaks, while it is an established fact that they were a turkic people.The same was posted in the Cuman People article and I removed it from there too. 95.223.187.171 ( talk) 14:41, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
Hello ! Please correct the text on the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kipchak_people, chapter Language. To say that Hungarian language is similar to Kiptchak and Cuman, it is a big mistake. Turkic languages are belonging Altaic languages ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altaic_languages), Hungarian belongs to the Ouralic family ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_language). Instead of it, you can say that the Hungarian language got a lot of words from Turkic languages !Thanks !
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Ther article says that they were blond and blue eyed because they descended from the Dingling whom the chinese describes as auch but the article on the Dingling contradicts this saying: Chinese records do not mention the physical appearance of the Dingling, suggesting general homogeneity with people of the Asiatic region, and their name appears rarely
It also seems highly unlikey considering that the article calls them a Turcic people...
I'll remove this part with the reference to here and the Dingling article. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
141.53.210.214 (
talk) 12:50, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
The map used in the article is informative and relevant. But unfortunately since it is taken from Turkish Wikipedia, the names of the locations are in Turkish. File:State of Cuman-Kipchak (13.) tr.png Is it possible to reproduce the same map but with English names inserted? werldwayd ( talk) 18:23, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
The head section has a long list of names of the confederation in various foreign languages. This is not quite appropriate; the English wikipedia should give the name in English, and names in other languages should be used in the corresponding wikipedias (or in the Wikictionary.) But since those names have been entered, I think it is no big harm to leave them there. -- JorgeStolfi -- 187.106.62.53 ( talk) 05:49, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
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to merge with Polovtsian? Mikkalai 09:08, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Sorry if the move from 'Kypchak' to 'Kipchak' offended anyone. It's simply that 'Kipchak' is the commonest form of the name, and that most frequently encountered in academic publications (it's taken from Russian - Кипчак - rather than Kazakh or Uzbek). One advantage of this is that one avoids becoming embroiled in nationalist debate about transliteration, as both the Uzbeks and Kazakhs have a claim on the Kipchak heritage, and they do not transliterate in the same way (or, indeed, consistently). If we really want to be accurate then it ought to be 'Qipchaq/Qypchaq', but this seems to be getting into the realms of pedantry. If people feel strongly about this then it can be left, but on the whole using the most familiar form of a word seems to me to be a good rule of thumb. ( Sikandarji 14:21, 21 Feb 2005 (UTC))
I've consulted further with a friend of mine who speaks both Uzbek and Kazakh, and it seems that the spelling 'Kypchak' is really rather misleading. It's true that "ы" is normally transliterated as "y" in Russian, but the sound represented by the same cyrillic letter in Kazakh is quite different, not a Russian "uy" but the Turkic back-vowel "u" (as in 'put') which in modern Turkish in the latin script is represented by an "i" without a dot. Accordingly I still think "Kipchak" is the best spelling, whereas "Kypchak" is a wholly unfamiliar form of the word, and is no more accurate as a transliteration. {{ Sikandarji 23:40, 22 Feb 2005 (UTC)}}
They arrived in the steppes of the northern shore of the Black Sea during the 11th century. In 1068 they win Russian army on the river of the Alta, devastated the Russian borderland. The Dasht-e Kipchak (the Kipchak' plains, polovetskaya step is the steppes von the Volga, Don, Azov regions). Don't rv it. Ben-Velvel 22:20, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
please write about it, the kipchaks were known before under the name sir from orkhon-enisey inscriptions. 24.218.8.72 05:28, 31 January 2007 (UTC)
I think the Cumans article should be merged into this one. After all, aren't both terms different denominations for the same people? Rsazevedo ( talk) 17:05, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Cumans are surely just the western branch of Kipchaks, therefore Cumans and Kipchaks are not the same. Spring01 ( talk) 23:45, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Cumans are just the western part of Kipchaks if you like it or not. So Cumans does not equal Kipchaks. Therefore having just one article wouldn`t be very encyclopedic. Spring01 ( talk) 01:35, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi all. I am Romanian, and thus directly concerned about this snippet of history, and I would like to give my view on the issue: While we can all see that the Cumans (or however you wanna write this) were part of the Kipchaks, I do not think it would be the best solution to merge this article under Kipchacks, OR Russian History, for that matter. I will illustrate why not - it would be the same as saying "well, since Turkey, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan, etc., are all Turkic people, why would we need to separate them?". The difference comes not from ethnicity, but from what they did from the moment they separated from the main group, politically, organizationally, militarily, etc. History is all about evolution, and while I think it would be a great idea to link all these domains (russian history, turkic heritage, black sea history, etc), I do not think subordinating entire populations to some ethnic tribe half way across the world helps have a better idea of the history of a specific area. ... at least for the fact that Cumans played an important role in the birth of Walachia, and so it should be "findable" easily. Thanks :-) Fotescu, March 4, 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fotescu ( talk • contribs) 12:58, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
I'm Hungarian. Merging the Kuns with the Kipchaks would be Like merging the Hungarians with the Oghuz Turks being that they split from them. The only difference is that the Cuman empire didn't survive. They still deserve a separate chapter as they were in history.
I'm inclined to agree to not merge. If the Cumans were a subgroup of the Kipchaks then they are not all the Kipchaks. There seems to be sufficient material to establish that they at least had their own historical development, even if the broader matters of language and culture did not diverge so much. There are many articles on wikipedia covering subsets of larger ethnic groups. Totnesmartin ( talk) 10:39, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
Do not merge! This merger is aimed at undermining the role of Christianity among Cumans and in the Steppes before the affirmation of Islam in the 15th century! Historical truth should be the only motive, not politics, please! 15.195.185.83 ( talk) 14:02, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
I removed the ethnicity section, since it was a very unconstructive work of vandalism. It had no references whatsoever and it put up wild unsupported theories about racial issues of Cumans and Kipchaks, while it is an established fact that they were a turkic people.The same was posted in the Cuman People article and I removed it from there too. 95.223.187.171 ( talk) 14:41, 16 June 2010 (UTC)
Hello ! Please correct the text on the page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kipchak_people, chapter Language. To say that Hungarian language is similar to Kiptchak and Cuman, it is a big mistake. Turkic languages are belonging Altaic languages ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altaic_languages), Hungarian belongs to the Ouralic family ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_language). Instead of it, you can say that the Hungarian language got a lot of words from Turkic languages !Thanks !
An image used in this article,
File:Kipsak Flag.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 1 April 2012
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
To take part in any discussion, or to review a more detailed deletion rationale please visit the relevant image page (File:Kipsak Flag.jpg) This is Bot placed notification, another user has nominated/tagged the image -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 10:31, 1 April 2012 (UTC) |
Ther article says that they were blond and blue eyed because they descended from the Dingling whom the chinese describes as auch but the article on the Dingling contradicts this saying: Chinese records do not mention the physical appearance of the Dingling, suggesting general homogeneity with people of the Asiatic region, and their name appears rarely
It also seems highly unlikey considering that the article calls them a Turcic people...
I'll remove this part with the reference to here and the Dingling article. — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
141.53.210.214 (
talk) 12:50, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
The map used in the article is informative and relevant. But unfortunately since it is taken from Turkish Wikipedia, the names of the locations are in Turkish. File:State of Cuman-Kipchak (13.) tr.png Is it possible to reproduce the same map but with English names inserted? werldwayd ( talk) 18:23, 25 September 2012 (UTC)
The head section has a long list of names of the confederation in various foreign languages. This is not quite appropriate; the English wikipedia should give the name in English, and names in other languages should be used in the corresponding wikipedias (or in the Wikictionary.) But since those names have been entered, I think it is no big harm to leave them there. -- JorgeStolfi -- 187.106.62.53 ( talk) 05:49, 7 August 2014 (UTC)
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