This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Kinomichi article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||
|
It should be made clearer if this is a sperate art to aikido - and how it differs. Right now the impression is that it is just another independent aikido organization. Peter Rehse 11:49, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Dear Peter, I am getting a bit more easy with Wiki ways so I can answer you now on this discussion thread. I have done the citations you suggested and changed some wording. As for the difference between Aikido and Kinomichi, it is obvious when practiced but it is difficult to put in words what we share and do not share. I tried to say what we do and not what we or others do not do. It will take a few days to put it right. The main thing is not to offend any one's feelings. That is why drawing a line between these two related arts is difficult. An encyclopedia article has to be precise but with arts wich have a universal purpose, it is not easy to limit them within definitions. Rendez-vous in a few days. Thanks again for your comments. Jisso 09:27, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Its a nice Start - almost a B-class article. Take your time. Cheers. Peter Rehse 14:38, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Dear all, if you have any suggestions to improve this article, you are welcome. To answer a suggestion, I have put a few words on the way Kinomichi is most different but I do not think it is good to say what it is compared to Aikido or any other martial art because no martial art is the standard to which one should compare others. The difficulty is greater as Kinomichi reclaims to move and change every now and then as a natural way of being a living art. Soon we may have online a more precise view of the techniques of Kinomichi. Jisso 09:32, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Just a word to say that I hope my latest comment on comparing an art to another does not seem neglecting aikido's value. In the same way one does no more introduce aikido by commenting on Daito ryu aikijujitsu, one does not explain kinomichi or another art by saying it has improved or altered its predecessor. So many martial arts share the heart of the Way or Tao, yet so many vary in their study of it. Jisso 06:59, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
In what way is kinomichi a budo art? Budo is martial arts, and I was under the impression that kinomichi is not a martial art. // habj 17:13, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
A fairly large portion of the text consists of flowery language with little actual content. These kind of descriptions are appropriate in a book an the art, but the encyclopaedia should focus on facts. I have tried to boil parts of the text down to the actual facts, while other sections still need much work. In doing this, I have probably entered some errors which I hope others can correct. The concent of the article is unfocused and maybe not written with the fact in mind that Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, nothing else. // habj 12:47, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
the encyclopaedia should focus on facts [...] The content of the article is unfocused and maybe not written with the fact in mind that Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, nothing else.
an encyclopedia treats each subject in more depth [than a dictionary] and conveys the most relevant accumulated knowledge on that subject or discipline, given the overall length of the particular work. An encyclopedia also often includes many maps and illustrations, as well as bibliography and statistics. Historically, both encyclopedias and dictionaries have been researched and written by well-educated, well-informed content experts.
The article contains no information on what in martial arts is called techniques. Does it contain ikkyo nikkyo sankyo kotegaeshi from aikido, or something else? Or, are techniques only defined from the concept of ki, not the physical manifestation thereof?
I removed "grappling" from the martial arts infobox (which I think should not be there in the first place). Or do people actually crawl on top of each other in kinomichi, trying to create chokes, arm bars, throws etc? // habj 14:41, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
You need to take the time to read the grappling article. Ground-fighting/wrestling, throwing, and joint-locking are all specific sub-sets of grappling. This was discussed extensively before consensus was reached, and is made quite explicit by the article (which, incidentally, specifically mentions aikido as a type of "defensive" grappling, that includes no ground-fighting). Bradford44 18:04, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
The chapter on ki has been "cleaned up". habj has introduced this wording : the kinomichi theory. Such thing does not exist. It is the experience of Noro sensei and his choice to go that way. I do not think we should use this distinction between practice and theory as it doesn't really match the way of doing in Japanese budo. Cleaning up needs a learned person on such matters. What is convenient to read for some may not end up being reliable information. Jisso 07:34, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 3 external links on
Kinomichi. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 10:54, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Kinomichi. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.bushido-ni.rs/aikido_mag_0312.pdfWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:35, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Kinomichi article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||
|
It should be made clearer if this is a sperate art to aikido - and how it differs. Right now the impression is that it is just another independent aikido organization. Peter Rehse 11:49, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
Dear Peter, I am getting a bit more easy with Wiki ways so I can answer you now on this discussion thread. I have done the citations you suggested and changed some wording. As for the difference between Aikido and Kinomichi, it is obvious when practiced but it is difficult to put in words what we share and do not share. I tried to say what we do and not what we or others do not do. It will take a few days to put it right. The main thing is not to offend any one's feelings. That is why drawing a line between these two related arts is difficult. An encyclopedia article has to be precise but with arts wich have a universal purpose, it is not easy to limit them within definitions. Rendez-vous in a few days. Thanks again for your comments. Jisso 09:27, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
Its a nice Start - almost a B-class article. Take your time. Cheers. Peter Rehse 14:38, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
Dear all, if you have any suggestions to improve this article, you are welcome. To answer a suggestion, I have put a few words on the way Kinomichi is most different but I do not think it is good to say what it is compared to Aikido or any other martial art because no martial art is the standard to which one should compare others. The difficulty is greater as Kinomichi reclaims to move and change every now and then as a natural way of being a living art. Soon we may have online a more precise view of the techniques of Kinomichi. Jisso 09:32, 25 May 2007 (UTC)
Just a word to say that I hope my latest comment on comparing an art to another does not seem neglecting aikido's value. In the same way one does no more introduce aikido by commenting on Daito ryu aikijujitsu, one does not explain kinomichi or another art by saying it has improved or altered its predecessor. So many martial arts share the heart of the Way or Tao, yet so many vary in their study of it. Jisso 06:59, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
In what way is kinomichi a budo art? Budo is martial arts, and I was under the impression that kinomichi is not a martial art. // habj 17:13, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
A fairly large portion of the text consists of flowery language with little actual content. These kind of descriptions are appropriate in a book an the art, but the encyclopaedia should focus on facts. I have tried to boil parts of the text down to the actual facts, while other sections still need much work. In doing this, I have probably entered some errors which I hope others can correct. The concent of the article is unfocused and maybe not written with the fact in mind that Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, nothing else. // habj 12:47, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
the encyclopaedia should focus on facts [...] The content of the article is unfocused and maybe not written with the fact in mind that Wikipedia is an encyclopaedia, nothing else.
an encyclopedia treats each subject in more depth [than a dictionary] and conveys the most relevant accumulated knowledge on that subject or discipline, given the overall length of the particular work. An encyclopedia also often includes many maps and illustrations, as well as bibliography and statistics. Historically, both encyclopedias and dictionaries have been researched and written by well-educated, well-informed content experts.
The article contains no information on what in martial arts is called techniques. Does it contain ikkyo nikkyo sankyo kotegaeshi from aikido, or something else? Or, are techniques only defined from the concept of ki, not the physical manifestation thereof?
I removed "grappling" from the martial arts infobox (which I think should not be there in the first place). Or do people actually crawl on top of each other in kinomichi, trying to create chokes, arm bars, throws etc? // habj 14:41, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
You need to take the time to read the grappling article. Ground-fighting/wrestling, throwing, and joint-locking are all specific sub-sets of grappling. This was discussed extensively before consensus was reached, and is made quite explicit by the article (which, incidentally, specifically mentions aikido as a type of "defensive" grappling, that includes no ground-fighting). Bradford44 18:04, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
The chapter on ki has been "cleaned up". habj has introduced this wording : the kinomichi theory. Such thing does not exist. It is the experience of Noro sensei and his choice to go that way. I do not think we should use this distinction between practice and theory as it doesn't really match the way of doing in Japanese budo. Cleaning up needs a learned person on such matters. What is convenient to read for some may not end up being reliable information. Jisso 07:34, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to 3 external links on
Kinomichi. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 10:54, 20 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Kinomichi. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://www.bushido-ni.rs/aikido_mag_0312.pdfWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 01:35, 11 December 2017 (UTC)