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Why isn't Napoleon mentioned here at all? I was going to add something about Lujzijana, but to no avail. Admiral Norton ( talk) 15:12, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
It would be nice if we had a detailed map of the Kingdom of Croatia around the 1850s... I'll se what I can do. -- DIREKTOR ( TALK) 13:28, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
The map in the infobox should ideally be a political map with the Kingdom of Croatia highlighted.
In short, this map of mine is more than satisfactory, do not alter it to somehow to highlight lands that were NOT a part of the Kingdom of Croatia - as being part of the Kingdom of Croatia. For once, lets remove fantasies from Croatian history. -- DIREKTOR ( TALK) 22:58, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
How many times were the Habsburgs Croatia's rulers?
"The Kingdom was a part of the Lands of the Crown of St. Stephen, but was subject to direct Imperial Austrian rule for significant periods of time, including its final years. Its capital was Zagreb."
King Habsburg had the last word. King imposed its will several times. King tried to diminuate or ignore the importance of Kingdoms that conditionally accepted the Habsburgs as the monarchs. Kingdom of Croatia (check the full title!) conditionally accepted Habsburgs. "Direct rule" - better word is needed.
So, although King tried to diminuate, Sabor (Parliament) of Kingdom of Croatia was resilient. It resiliently defended its rights, since Croatian Parliament held to the (in which they accepted Habsburg) as to the contract and never gave up its rights.
Kubura (
talk)
01:14, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
I have changed the red-white flag from infobox to red-white-blue tricolor. Red and white flag was official only for 15 years, and since this article refers to much longer period, in which the tricolor flag was in official use (from 1800 onwards, except for this 15 years), this flag should be in infobox as Flag of the Kingdom. Ro0103 ( talk) 13:13, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Dear Director, I don't understand why did you changed the COA of Kingdom of Croatia in this period? As you said before, there should be the last COA used, and in this period this surely is the COA of Triune kingdom of Croatia. This COA was printed on the front page of the official Gazette - Almanac of laws and orders valiant for Kingdom of Croatia and Slavonia in 1866. Similar COA is on the seal of Croatian Parliament from 1866. All this you can see in above mentioned book. Ro0103 20:58, 4 October 2010 (UTC) Ro0103 20:58, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
I am restoring again the last flag of the Kingdom - Director, please, you yourself wrote on this discussion page, just few rows above, I quote "The tricolor was re-introduced 1860-1868." Again, for all others, everything about the flags in Croatia can be fonud in the book written by dr. Mario Jareb from Croatian History Institute - Croatian national syimbols (Hrvatski nacionalni simboli, Alfa d.d., Hrvatski institut za povijest, Zagreb, 2010.). Please, next time you change something, state your sources and arguments... Ro0103 ( talk) 14:10, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
One thing: is it possible to find non-Croatian sources? Croatian historiography, with all due respect, is rather prone to supporting fiction in order to romanticize Croatian history. Examples of this are endless. Not only that, but we also have the Croatian claim on Dalmatia and Slavonia, which results in local authorities in Croatia adopting the use of various insignia depicting Austrian subdivisions other than Croatia itself. The problem is that this was not always (in fact very often not) recognized by the crown, which only tolerated this only when it intended to use Croatia as a tool to undermine the Hungarians. (Example: the croatian government liked to call itself the "Triune Kingdom of etc.", whereas noone in the entire world used this term to refer to the Kingdom of Croatia, including the Imperial court.)
In other words, we need (and have always needed) some sort of outside perspective on this. Preferably publications calling on official Imperial sources of the time which would ensure we are not representing the Croatian version of history ("Croatia-Hungary", the "victory" at Pakozd, the imaginary "pacta conventa", the non-existent "Triune Kingdom", etc.). -- DIREKTOR ( TALK) 00:17, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved -- JHunterJ ( talk) 11:32, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
Kingdom of Croatia (Habsburg) → Habsburg Kingdom of Croatia – More natural title relisting to see if consensus can be formed. -- JHunterJ ( talk) 13:46, 3 May 2012 (UTC) Jaro88slav ( talk) 07:15, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
The article Lands of the Hungarian Crown says the following:
After 1526 Hungary disintegrated into three parts. From the 16th century, Hungary proper, Croatia and Transylvania were the three regna of the Crown. These lands had some links with each other but became more and more autonomous during the centuries.
In the 18th century, the Lands of the Hungarian Crown consisted of the Kingdoms of Hungary, Croatia and Slavonia with the city of Fiume, the Grand Principality of Transylvania, the Croatian-Slavonian, and the Serbian-Hungarian military frontiers.
On the other side, this article says that Croatia was "in Personal union with Kingdom of Hungary". Isn't this a contradiction? What do Croatian editors think about this? 123Steller ( talk) 08:02, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
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Where and who signed personal union between Croatian kingdom And Habsburg Monarchy (Austria)? If it was signed what what is the reason for "Peasant uprising of 1573" ? Something does not fit here — Preceding unsigned comment added by Goxy63 ( talk • contribs) 00:16, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
It seems that present title "Kingdom of Croatia (Habsburg)" is somewhat ambiguous since this article covers only the period up to the political settlements of 1867-1868, while Croatia remained under Habsburg rule up to 1918, and therefore the same dynastic designation can also be applied to the second period, covered by article Kingdom of Croatia and Slavonia. Redirects like Habsburg Croatia or Habsburg Kingdom of Croatia, and also Croatia in the Habsburg Empire, are all pointing to this article, while their meaning is actually wider, since it also covers the second period, up to 1918. Maybe we should consider the possibility of renaming this article to some unambiguous title, like "Kingdom of Croatia (1526-1867)" and then use current redirect Habsburg Croatia to create a disambiguation pointing to both articles that are covering the Habsburg period of Croatian history: "Kingdom of Croatia (1526-1867)" and Kingdom of Croatia and Slavonia. Not to mention that there is also an older period of Habsbourg dynastic rule in Croatia, from 1437 to 1457, and therefore Habsburg Croatia is a very good candidate for a disambiguation with three distinctive subjects. Sorabino ( talk) 12:25, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
The period of 1848-1867 is added in a separate article since it was a separate era and entity proclaimed by the Sabor which lasted until 1867. It had a new form of government, institutions and even symbols. dr.sc. Ban kavalir ( talk) 10:20, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Kingdom of Croatia (Habsburg) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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Why isn't Napoleon mentioned here at all? I was going to add something about Lujzijana, but to no avail. Admiral Norton ( talk) 15:12, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
It would be nice if we had a detailed map of the Kingdom of Croatia around the 1850s... I'll se what I can do. -- DIREKTOR ( TALK) 13:28, 2 October 2009 (UTC)
The map in the infobox should ideally be a political map with the Kingdom of Croatia highlighted.
In short, this map of mine is more than satisfactory, do not alter it to somehow to highlight lands that were NOT a part of the Kingdom of Croatia - as being part of the Kingdom of Croatia. For once, lets remove fantasies from Croatian history. -- DIREKTOR ( TALK) 22:58, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
How many times were the Habsburgs Croatia's rulers?
"The Kingdom was a part of the Lands of the Crown of St. Stephen, but was subject to direct Imperial Austrian rule for significant periods of time, including its final years. Its capital was Zagreb."
King Habsburg had the last word. King imposed its will several times. King tried to diminuate or ignore the importance of Kingdoms that conditionally accepted the Habsburgs as the monarchs. Kingdom of Croatia (check the full title!) conditionally accepted Habsburgs. "Direct rule" - better word is needed.
So, although King tried to diminuate, Sabor (Parliament) of Kingdom of Croatia was resilient. It resiliently defended its rights, since Croatian Parliament held to the (in which they accepted Habsburg) as to the contract and never gave up its rights.
Kubura (
talk)
01:14, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
I have changed the red-white flag from infobox to red-white-blue tricolor. Red and white flag was official only for 15 years, and since this article refers to much longer period, in which the tricolor flag was in official use (from 1800 onwards, except for this 15 years), this flag should be in infobox as Flag of the Kingdom. Ro0103 ( talk) 13:13, 21 April 2010 (UTC)
Dear Director, I don't understand why did you changed the COA of Kingdom of Croatia in this period? As you said before, there should be the last COA used, and in this period this surely is the COA of Triune kingdom of Croatia. This COA was printed on the front page of the official Gazette - Almanac of laws and orders valiant for Kingdom of Croatia and Slavonia in 1866. Similar COA is on the seal of Croatian Parliament from 1866. All this you can see in above mentioned book. Ro0103 20:58, 4 October 2010 (UTC) Ro0103 20:58, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
I am restoring again the last flag of the Kingdom - Director, please, you yourself wrote on this discussion page, just few rows above, I quote "The tricolor was re-introduced 1860-1868." Again, for all others, everything about the flags in Croatia can be fonud in the book written by dr. Mario Jareb from Croatian History Institute - Croatian national syimbols (Hrvatski nacionalni simboli, Alfa d.d., Hrvatski institut za povijest, Zagreb, 2010.). Please, next time you change something, state your sources and arguments... Ro0103 ( talk) 14:10, 14 March 2011 (UTC)
One thing: is it possible to find non-Croatian sources? Croatian historiography, with all due respect, is rather prone to supporting fiction in order to romanticize Croatian history. Examples of this are endless. Not only that, but we also have the Croatian claim on Dalmatia and Slavonia, which results in local authorities in Croatia adopting the use of various insignia depicting Austrian subdivisions other than Croatia itself. The problem is that this was not always (in fact very often not) recognized by the crown, which only tolerated this only when it intended to use Croatia as a tool to undermine the Hungarians. (Example: the croatian government liked to call itself the "Triune Kingdom of etc.", whereas noone in the entire world used this term to refer to the Kingdom of Croatia, including the Imperial court.)
In other words, we need (and have always needed) some sort of outside perspective on this. Preferably publications calling on official Imperial sources of the time which would ensure we are not representing the Croatian version of history ("Croatia-Hungary", the "victory" at Pakozd, the imaginary "pacta conventa", the non-existent "Triune Kingdom", etc.). -- DIREKTOR ( TALK) 00:17, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved -- JHunterJ ( talk) 11:32, 15 May 2012 (UTC)
Kingdom of Croatia (Habsburg) → Habsburg Kingdom of Croatia – More natural title relisting to see if consensus can be formed. -- JHunterJ ( talk) 13:46, 3 May 2012 (UTC) Jaro88slav ( talk) 07:15, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
The article Lands of the Hungarian Crown says the following:
After 1526 Hungary disintegrated into three parts. From the 16th century, Hungary proper, Croatia and Transylvania were the three regna of the Crown. These lands had some links with each other but became more and more autonomous during the centuries.
In the 18th century, the Lands of the Hungarian Crown consisted of the Kingdoms of Hungary, Croatia and Slavonia with the city of Fiume, the Grand Principality of Transylvania, the Croatian-Slavonian, and the Serbian-Hungarian military frontiers.
On the other side, this article says that Croatia was "in Personal union with Kingdom of Hungary". Isn't this a contradiction? What do Croatian editors think about this? 123Steller ( talk) 08:02, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Kingdom of Croatia (Habsburg). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
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regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 09:15, 6 May 2017 (UTC)
Where and who signed personal union between Croatian kingdom And Habsburg Monarchy (Austria)? If it was signed what what is the reason for "Peasant uprising of 1573" ? Something does not fit here — Preceding unsigned comment added by Goxy63 ( talk • contribs) 00:16, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
It seems that present title "Kingdom of Croatia (Habsburg)" is somewhat ambiguous since this article covers only the period up to the political settlements of 1867-1868, while Croatia remained under Habsburg rule up to 1918, and therefore the same dynastic designation can also be applied to the second period, covered by article Kingdom of Croatia and Slavonia. Redirects like Habsburg Croatia or Habsburg Kingdom of Croatia, and also Croatia in the Habsburg Empire, are all pointing to this article, while their meaning is actually wider, since it also covers the second period, up to 1918. Maybe we should consider the possibility of renaming this article to some unambiguous title, like "Kingdom of Croatia (1526-1867)" and then use current redirect Habsburg Croatia to create a disambiguation pointing to both articles that are covering the Habsburg period of Croatian history: "Kingdom of Croatia (1526-1867)" and Kingdom of Croatia and Slavonia. Not to mention that there is also an older period of Habsbourg dynastic rule in Croatia, from 1437 to 1457, and therefore Habsburg Croatia is a very good candidate for a disambiguation with three distinctive subjects. Sorabino ( talk) 12:25, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
The period of 1848-1867 is added in a separate article since it was a separate era and entity proclaimed by the Sabor which lasted until 1867. It had a new form of government, institutions and even symbols. dr.sc. Ban kavalir ( talk) 10:20, 4 April 2019 (UTC)