![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
A great thank you to the JW PR Department for your valuable contribution. ;-)
I am deleting some wordiness in the paragraph about the design of KH's. It was just too wordy. It also seemed argumentative. The text is thus before my deletion:
Kingdom Halls vary in size and design. They are usually modest, functional structures, clean and attractive, but essentially practical. They do not include a steeple, bells or recordings of sounding bells, stained glass windows or cathedrals and vaulted ceilings, organs or Grand piano's, although many congregations do have a simple piano which a member pianist plays in order to accompany the congregation while they are singing. There are no " Confession booths" or candle stands. As Witnesses do not use religious symbols, such are not displayed on or in Kingdom Halls. But "this years theme scripture" is displayed in each Kingdom Hall. The theme scripture is the same for all Kingdom Halls worldwide and it's changed simultaneously each year at all Kingdom Halls.
george 03:41, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
DannyMuse: thanks for the security mention, I debated putting it in but ended up leaving it out, I'm glad someone else thought better of it and added it. Kyle Maxwell 04:50, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
I tagged the line as NPOV becasue to say something is "clean and attractive" is a very subjective viewpoint. The building that is pictured I would not call attractive, for instance. Really it should be be removed since it's just someone's opinion. Can't you just say practical and leave it at that? Sourcing the information from The Watchtower isn't really a solution either, as it's not a neutral source. Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 10:41, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
I can't see what this information is doing in this section. If it has a place anywhere, surely it should be in one of the controversy pages, but not here, as it doesn't directly tie in with the subject of Kingdom Halls (or even it's own header, as far as I can see). Blaise Joshua 10:41, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
The section about police searches has been removed several times by User:En sabah nur. While I agree that it would be better to have a primary source for this information, it is one of the only pieces of information referenced at all in this article. In addition, the one other reference in the article is also a secondary source, so I see no justification for removing one and not the rest of the information from the article. Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 22:24, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
I still don't think that the information has any place in this article and that the reasons given for keeping it are very weak indeed. However, rather than constantly removing the info and having it reposted, it would be better if User En sabah nur articulated his or her reasons for its removal on the talk page. Blaise Joshua 10:58, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, just learned about the talk page, went to a seminar. Even asked about this case. When I removed it I figured it was surely a mistake someone put it there. Whether one thinks it belongs on here or not, it really should be somewhere else, I think. Though, it could be put under a space about similarities to other holy buildings/houses of God. The reason I noticed it was simply because it popped up when I was using Yahoo! Answers, I saw it and fixed it. I checked back to see if I missed a reason for it to be there, and there it was again. I realise now there are procedures thanks to the class taught by
User:Elonka Hopefully I can improve to the caliber befitting wikipedia. (
Ishvarlan
16:52, 4 September 2007 (UTC))
There is a bit of a myth that Kingdom Halls do not have windows. Though some don't, probably where there is particularly high risk of vandalism, most do. I have seen many KH in Australia, but have never seen any that did not have windows. It should probably be mentioned in the article to alleviate the myth.-- Jeffro77 ( talk) 11:57, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
There are NOT 101,000 Kingdom Halls worldwide. There were 101,376 congregations on 31 August 2007; this grew to 103,267 by 31 August 2008, with five new congregations being formed every day. The current total number of Kingdom Halls has not been published recently but may be in the range of 25,000 or so. Glenn L ( talk) 04:56, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
The new sections on schools constitute undue weight in this article. The schools mentioned are only held occasionally, and their regular meetings certainly constitute more relevance than these other schools. All that is required in the context of this article is a single paragraph listing various schools that JWs might hold in the Kingdom Halls. If further information about their schools is Notable, it should be in a separate article.-- Jeffro77 ( talk) 01:24, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
I've deleted two paragraphs on the history of Kingdom Ministry Schools that are outside the scope of this article. The disaster relief section is also unnecessarily long and should be trimmed. When I attended JW meetings the Kingdom Hall was also used to cook food for an ethnic congregation. It also contained a microwave oven to heat babies' milk bottles. It also provided accommodation for visiting circuit overseers. It housed the territory maps. It housed a library of WT publications. It also become the dumping place for unwanted furniture and vases from congregation members' homes. At the rate of detail being included in this article, all these things may soon be included. Wikipedia's nominal 32kb limit on article size doesn't require that we keep on writing to use that space. LTSally ( talk) 21:45, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
This thread seems really odd. For its first two months of existence, the entire article was one sentence or less
[1]; was that desirable?
The main article is about a place of worshipful education; three short sections now describe education programs held there. The criticisms seem quite a stretch...
That leaves notability.
In the spirit of
WP:Candor, each editor should put himself on record as stating plainly whether he honestly believes the material on
Kingdom Hall schools
[3] to be nonnotable. Yes or no?
I'd guess certain editors will hesitate to give an explicit yea or nay.
Without that, their criticizing just waste everyone's time. Others are left to wonder if critics really believe their own criticisms.
There are much more worthwhile and rewarding efforts on Wikipedia than this deletion campaign.
--
AuthorityTam (
talk)
21:02, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
I have removed the sections that are beyond the scope of the article, which have been replaced by a brief summary. The removed text is provided below. As stated earlier, if the information is actually notable per Wikipedia's criteria (though it is largely unreferenced and apparently not notable enough for third-party sources), it should be in a separate article.
Language classes
At times, a branch will determine that its territory includes a significant population that speak a particular language that is not well known by many Witnesses involved in preaching in the area. In such cases, local language classes may be coordinated and scheduled at appropriately located Kingdom Halls. Typically, several congregations near each such Hall will announce the details of its upcoming class and invite applications by interested Witnesses. Acceptance is considered a privilege of service, available only for active Witnesses in good standing.
Pioneer Service School
Since 1977, Jehovah's Witnesses have scheduled an annual series of local "Pioneer Service Schools" using the textbook Shining as Illuminators in the World, which is considered confidential for instructors, students, and graduates of the course. Invitations to attend are extended primarily to pioneers (that is, applicants previously appointed for full-time ministry) who are about to complete or have completed their first year of service, and secondarily to continuing pioneers who have seniority to fill any open seats in a local class.
Kingdom Ministry School
About every three years, local one- to three-day seminars for congregation elders and ministerial servants (deacons) are arranged using the curriculum from Jehovah's Witnesses' Kingdom Ministry School; seminars are held at Assembly Halls and Kingdom Halls.
Jehovah's Witnesses began "Kingdom Ministry School" in 1959 as a one-month course for their congregation overseers (now called "coordinator of the body of elders") and "special pioneers" at the facility in South Lansing, New York (an extension of their Brooklyn headquarters); by 1966 the curriculum was limited to overseers for a two week duration. Since 2008, weeklong Kingdom Ministry School programs are conducted at Watchtower Educational Center, best known for its Watchtower Bible School of Gilead [1] and other branch facilities; the announced intention is to eventually invite every appointed elder to attend such a hosted weeklong curriculum.
Beginning in 1977, all elders [2] were loaned the course textbook Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock for reference and use at Kingdom Ministry (or "KM") School. Other texts used are the New World Translation and Organized to Do Jehovah's Will, an organization manual for Witness adherents. The curriculum for ministerial servants uses only the two latter texts.
-- Jeffro77 ( talk) 14:05, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
References
I have created Jehovah's Witnesses teaching programs, which is the proper place for additional detail about JW education programs that is beyond the scope of the Kingdom Hall article. It's only a beginning, so AuthorityTam, go for your life on improving it. Please provide third-party sources to support its notability, or it will probably be subject to deletion per WP:NOTABLE.-- Jeffro77 ( talk) 14:09, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
It is commonly asserted that JW Kingdom Halls don't have windows. Many editors will realize that this is simply untrue. (Personally, I've never seen one without windows, though maybe there are some in high-vandalism areas(?)) How do other editors feel about stating (and hence dispelling) the urban myth within the 'construction' section?-- Jeffro77 ( talk) 09:57, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
A great thank you to the JW PR Department for your valuable contribution. ;-)
I am deleting some wordiness in the paragraph about the design of KH's. It was just too wordy. It also seemed argumentative. The text is thus before my deletion:
Kingdom Halls vary in size and design. They are usually modest, functional structures, clean and attractive, but essentially practical. They do not include a steeple, bells or recordings of sounding bells, stained glass windows or cathedrals and vaulted ceilings, organs or Grand piano's, although many congregations do have a simple piano which a member pianist plays in order to accompany the congregation while they are singing. There are no " Confession booths" or candle stands. As Witnesses do not use religious symbols, such are not displayed on or in Kingdom Halls. But "this years theme scripture" is displayed in each Kingdom Hall. The theme scripture is the same for all Kingdom Halls worldwide and it's changed simultaneously each year at all Kingdom Halls.
george 03:41, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
DannyMuse: thanks for the security mention, I debated putting it in but ended up leaving it out, I'm glad someone else thought better of it and added it. Kyle Maxwell 04:50, 16 July 2005 (UTC)
I tagged the line as NPOV becasue to say something is "clean and attractive" is a very subjective viewpoint. The building that is pictured I would not call attractive, for instance. Really it should be be removed since it's just someone's opinion. Can't you just say practical and leave it at that? Sourcing the information from The Watchtower isn't really a solution either, as it's not a neutral source. Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 10:41, 22 June 2007 (UTC)
I can't see what this information is doing in this section. If it has a place anywhere, surely it should be in one of the controversy pages, but not here, as it doesn't directly tie in with the subject of Kingdom Halls (or even it's own header, as far as I can see). Blaise Joshua 10:41, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
The section about police searches has been removed several times by User:En sabah nur. While I agree that it would be better to have a primary source for this information, it is one of the only pieces of information referenced at all in this article. In addition, the one other reference in the article is also a secondary source, so I see no justification for removing one and not the rest of the information from the article. Djlayton4 | talk | contribs 22:24, 29 August 2007 (UTC)
I still don't think that the information has any place in this article and that the reasons given for keeping it are very weak indeed. However, rather than constantly removing the info and having it reposted, it would be better if User En sabah nur articulated his or her reasons for its removal on the talk page. Blaise Joshua 10:58, 30 August 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, just learned about the talk page, went to a seminar. Even asked about this case. When I removed it I figured it was surely a mistake someone put it there. Whether one thinks it belongs on here or not, it really should be somewhere else, I think. Though, it could be put under a space about similarities to other holy buildings/houses of God. The reason I noticed it was simply because it popped up when I was using Yahoo! Answers, I saw it and fixed it. I checked back to see if I missed a reason for it to be there, and there it was again. I realise now there are procedures thanks to the class taught by
User:Elonka Hopefully I can improve to the caliber befitting wikipedia. (
Ishvarlan
16:52, 4 September 2007 (UTC))
There is a bit of a myth that Kingdom Halls do not have windows. Though some don't, probably where there is particularly high risk of vandalism, most do. I have seen many KH in Australia, but have never seen any that did not have windows. It should probably be mentioned in the article to alleviate the myth.-- Jeffro77 ( talk) 11:57, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
There are NOT 101,000 Kingdom Halls worldwide. There were 101,376 congregations on 31 August 2007; this grew to 103,267 by 31 August 2008, with five new congregations being formed every day. The current total number of Kingdom Halls has not been published recently but may be in the range of 25,000 or so. Glenn L ( talk) 04:56, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
The new sections on schools constitute undue weight in this article. The schools mentioned are only held occasionally, and their regular meetings certainly constitute more relevance than these other schools. All that is required in the context of this article is a single paragraph listing various schools that JWs might hold in the Kingdom Halls. If further information about their schools is Notable, it should be in a separate article.-- Jeffro77 ( talk) 01:24, 18 July 2009 (UTC)
I've deleted two paragraphs on the history of Kingdom Ministry Schools that are outside the scope of this article. The disaster relief section is also unnecessarily long and should be trimmed. When I attended JW meetings the Kingdom Hall was also used to cook food for an ethnic congregation. It also contained a microwave oven to heat babies' milk bottles. It also provided accommodation for visiting circuit overseers. It housed the territory maps. It housed a library of WT publications. It also become the dumping place for unwanted furniture and vases from congregation members' homes. At the rate of detail being included in this article, all these things may soon be included. Wikipedia's nominal 32kb limit on article size doesn't require that we keep on writing to use that space. LTSally ( talk) 21:45, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
This thread seems really odd. For its first two months of existence, the entire article was one sentence or less
[1]; was that desirable?
The main article is about a place of worshipful education; three short sections now describe education programs held there. The criticisms seem quite a stretch...
That leaves notability.
In the spirit of
WP:Candor, each editor should put himself on record as stating plainly whether he honestly believes the material on
Kingdom Hall schools
[3] to be nonnotable. Yes or no?
I'd guess certain editors will hesitate to give an explicit yea or nay.
Without that, their criticizing just waste everyone's time. Others are left to wonder if critics really believe their own criticisms.
There are much more worthwhile and rewarding efforts on Wikipedia than this deletion campaign.
--
AuthorityTam (
talk)
21:02, 22 July 2009 (UTC)
I have removed the sections that are beyond the scope of the article, which have been replaced by a brief summary. The removed text is provided below. As stated earlier, if the information is actually notable per Wikipedia's criteria (though it is largely unreferenced and apparently not notable enough for third-party sources), it should be in a separate article.
Language classes
At times, a branch will determine that its territory includes a significant population that speak a particular language that is not well known by many Witnesses involved in preaching in the area. In such cases, local language classes may be coordinated and scheduled at appropriately located Kingdom Halls. Typically, several congregations near each such Hall will announce the details of its upcoming class and invite applications by interested Witnesses. Acceptance is considered a privilege of service, available only for active Witnesses in good standing.
Pioneer Service School
Since 1977, Jehovah's Witnesses have scheduled an annual series of local "Pioneer Service Schools" using the textbook Shining as Illuminators in the World, which is considered confidential for instructors, students, and graduates of the course. Invitations to attend are extended primarily to pioneers (that is, applicants previously appointed for full-time ministry) who are about to complete or have completed their first year of service, and secondarily to continuing pioneers who have seniority to fill any open seats in a local class.
Kingdom Ministry School
About every three years, local one- to three-day seminars for congregation elders and ministerial servants (deacons) are arranged using the curriculum from Jehovah's Witnesses' Kingdom Ministry School; seminars are held at Assembly Halls and Kingdom Halls.
Jehovah's Witnesses began "Kingdom Ministry School" in 1959 as a one-month course for their congregation overseers (now called "coordinator of the body of elders") and "special pioneers" at the facility in South Lansing, New York (an extension of their Brooklyn headquarters); by 1966 the curriculum was limited to overseers for a two week duration. Since 2008, weeklong Kingdom Ministry School programs are conducted at Watchtower Educational Center, best known for its Watchtower Bible School of Gilead [1] and other branch facilities; the announced intention is to eventually invite every appointed elder to attend such a hosted weeklong curriculum.
Beginning in 1977, all elders [2] were loaned the course textbook Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock for reference and use at Kingdom Ministry (or "KM") School. Other texts used are the New World Translation and Organized to Do Jehovah's Will, an organization manual for Witness adherents. The curriculum for ministerial servants uses only the two latter texts.
-- Jeffro77 ( talk) 14:05, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
References
I have created Jehovah's Witnesses teaching programs, which is the proper place for additional detail about JW education programs that is beyond the scope of the Kingdom Hall article. It's only a beginning, so AuthorityTam, go for your life on improving it. Please provide third-party sources to support its notability, or it will probably be subject to deletion per WP:NOTABLE.-- Jeffro77 ( talk) 14:09, 24 July 2009 (UTC)
It is commonly asserted that JW Kingdom Halls don't have windows. Many editors will realize that this is simply untrue. (Personally, I've never seen one without windows, though maybe there are some in high-vandalism areas(?)) How do other editors feel about stating (and hence dispelling) the urban myth within the 'construction' section?-- Jeffro77 ( talk) 09:57, 11 August 2009 (UTC)