This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Kinderhook plates article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The recent edits adding the quote from History of the Church as the first part of that section is highly POV, especially in the attempt to cite that quote as explicitly coming from Joseph Smith Jr. -- 208.81.184.4 ( talk) 18:55, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
I removed “Furthermore there is evidence that Joseph Smith didn't act in prophet's role during translation of Kinderhook plates” added by anonymous user ( 79.209.48.198) and the reference added by ( 208.81.184.4).
The sentence and reference are immaterial and confusing. Most readers do not recognize Joseph Smith as a prophet or understand the complicated implications of what it means to “act in a prophet’s role” or not act in a prophet’s role in Latter-day Saint culture.
The anonymous users who added the information most likely want to present different alternatives to Joseph Smith’s involvement with the plates than what some critics of Smith proclaim. The Deseret News article isn’t the answer. Wait until something is published that reaches deeper. The result may end up the same but Rhett Wilkinson’s article doesn’t add value.
I think most can agree that the Kinderhook plates were a modern creation, Joseph Smith intended a translation, either revelatory or by traditional means, and there is no existing text derived by Joseph from the plates. It seems unwise to defend or attack something that isn’t there.
Matthew R. Lee 03:56, August 15, 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Kinderhook plates. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:32, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
The History of the Church is NOT a reliable source. I'd like to place the following section into a footnote, but realize this might be controversial, so am presenting the idea here for discussion:
The History of the Church also states Smith said the following:[11]
I have translated a portion of [the plates] and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and that he received his kingdom from the ruler of heaven and earth.
Stanley B. Kimball says the statement found in History of the Church could have been an altered version of William Clayton's statement, placing Smith in the first person.[12] Diane Wirth, writing in Review of Books on the Book of Mormon (2:210), states: "A first-person narrative was apparently a common practice of this time period when a biographical work was being compiled. Since such words were never penned by the Prophet, they cannot be uncritically accepted as his words or his opinion".[13]
Epachamo ( talk) 15:40, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
The Kinderhook plates and their metaphysical translation by Joseph Smith are part of LDS/Mormon history ConnieBland ( talk) 07:15, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
Image attached https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ec/Kinderhook_Plates_Broadside.gif to the entry is unreadable ConnieBland ( talk) 07:07, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Kinderhook plates article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The recent edits adding the quote from History of the Church as the first part of that section is highly POV, especially in the attempt to cite that quote as explicitly coming from Joseph Smith Jr. -- 208.81.184.4 ( talk) 18:55, 2 March 2011 (UTC)
I removed “Furthermore there is evidence that Joseph Smith didn't act in prophet's role during translation of Kinderhook plates” added by anonymous user ( 79.209.48.198) and the reference added by ( 208.81.184.4).
The sentence and reference are immaterial and confusing. Most readers do not recognize Joseph Smith as a prophet or understand the complicated implications of what it means to “act in a prophet’s role” or not act in a prophet’s role in Latter-day Saint culture.
The anonymous users who added the information most likely want to present different alternatives to Joseph Smith’s involvement with the plates than what some critics of Smith proclaim. The Deseret News article isn’t the answer. Wait until something is published that reaches deeper. The result may end up the same but Rhett Wilkinson’s article doesn’t add value.
I think most can agree that the Kinderhook plates were a modern creation, Joseph Smith intended a translation, either revelatory or by traditional means, and there is no existing text derived by Joseph from the plates. It seems unwise to defend or attack something that isn’t there.
Matthew R. Lee 03:56, August 15, 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Kinderhook plates. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:32, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
The History of the Church is NOT a reliable source. I'd like to place the following section into a footnote, but realize this might be controversial, so am presenting the idea here for discussion:
The History of the Church also states Smith said the following:[11]
I have translated a portion of [the plates] and find they contain the history of the person with whom they were found. He was a descendant of Ham, through the loins of Pharaoh, king of Egypt, and that he received his kingdom from the ruler of heaven and earth.
Stanley B. Kimball says the statement found in History of the Church could have been an altered version of William Clayton's statement, placing Smith in the first person.[12] Diane Wirth, writing in Review of Books on the Book of Mormon (2:210), states: "A first-person narrative was apparently a common practice of this time period when a biographical work was being compiled. Since such words were never penned by the Prophet, they cannot be uncritically accepted as his words or his opinion".[13]
Epachamo ( talk) 15:40, 9 August 2019 (UTC)
The Kinderhook plates and their metaphysical translation by Joseph Smith are part of LDS/Mormon history ConnieBland ( talk) 07:15, 26 January 2020 (UTC)
Image attached https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ec/Kinderhook_Plates_Broadside.gif to the entry is unreadable ConnieBland ( talk) 07:07, 26 January 2020 (UTC)