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My name is fiona s mendoza I am 16 years old I live in pulong tamo San ildefinso Bulacan
I believe this is a dialect of Ilonggo. (Need to research)-- Jondel 10:05, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
A section on the difference with Hiligaynon would be good since they are so similar and almost indiscernible from each other.-- Jondel 06:25, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Chris, sorry. I keep forgetting.-- Jondel 00:38, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
I am not that familiar with Aklanon, but my Aklanon friends say that they cannot understand Kinaray-a... and to me, their language sounds Cebuano (just the intonation).-- Sedotes ( talk) 02:43, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I've seen plenty of samples of Aklanon writing, notwithstanding the l - e change, the vocabulary is really different, I believe Kinaray-a and Hiligaynon are much more mutually intelligible. The one thing is that I keep thinking that perhaps the linguist made a mistake classifying Hiligaynon as an Eastern Visayan Language (together with waray-waray) and kinaray-a as Western Visayan. There is one theory that talks about Hiligaynon being an offspring of kinaray-a after all. Richarddr1234 —Preceding undated comment was added at 16:22, 18 September 2008 (UTC).
No. Hiligaynon is not an offspring of Kinaray-a. See the talk page of Hiligaynon article. But they, together with Aklanon share a common language ancestor. All the three languages are not mutually intelligible at all. I have an Aklanon classmate who and said she can't understand Kinaray-a. She didn't understand Hiligaynon either until she started learning it. Today, she can now fluently speak Hiligaynon. Karay-as can't understand Hiligaynon either, except for the ones with contact with Ilonggos or are influenced by Hiligaynon mass media. My mother has a Karay-a friend who lived in a remote community somewhere in Antique. She can't understand Hiligaynon at all. That's why she speaks in Tagalog with us. She thought Hiligaynon would sound the same as Kinaray-a, but she was wrong. Ilonggos can't understand Karay-as too, and take that from me. I can't understand Kinray-a. Well maybe except the Ilonggos who has lived with Karay-as, like what this article said.
And maybe those linguists were right in classifying Hiligaynon as an Eastern Visayan language. Actually, Hiligaynon is more mutually intelligible with Cebuano than with Aklanon and Kinaray-a, though in the same island. But Ilonggos can understand Cebuano with some degree of difficulty (Cebuano sounds more like Hiligaynon than Aklanon or Kiniray-a) and Cebuanos understand Hiligaynon with less degree of difficulty. Take that from a Cebuana classmate of mine who speaks only Cebuano and Tagalog. She can really understand Hiligaynon. I asked her about this and she said Hiligaynon sounds a lot like Cebuano. This lead me to conclude that Cebuano and Hiligaynon had a common ancestral language while this ancestral language share another common ancestral language with Aklanon and Kinaray-a.-- 112.202.101.127 ( talk) 09:24, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
Please vote for our Wikipedia! -- 203.173.138.159 08:14, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
The request for Hiligaynon Wikipedia has now been verified as eligible
This means that after these 1732 interface messages have been translated into Gheg, then the Test-project will qualify for Final Approval. To translate those system messages, follow these steps. -- Jose77 ( talk) 09:49, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
I have to ask this: the iraya-ilawud-ilig explanation for the roots of Kinaray-a and Hiligaynon seems sensible. But has there really been a comprehensive and definitive study done about this? Just recently, I came to a realization that the shift from iraya to Karay-a or Kinaray-a seems to evade a sensibe explanation. Iraya to iniraya would be very natural in terms of construction, but not one speaker of the language calls the language that, although Ilonggo scholars like Mulato, Norada, and Deriada claim that Iniraya/Hiniraya are also used. Is there anyone here who knows that someone (an insider) really uses this term? Also, the glottal stop in the word also seems to escape some explanation. Does anyone know any other Kinaray-a word that has undergone the same transformation? *iraya -> iray-a? If there is none, then I suggest that we begin to doubt the scientificity of this explanation. -- emanlerona 13:38, 21 March 2006
Hi, everyone. Just discovered how to add to the Discussion page. This is the first wiki I have ever contributed in. YAY!
If there's a standard for Kinaray-a spelling, I believe it needs improvement, as the 26-letter Roman alphabet just won't do.
Anyway, regarding the book mentioned in this article...
One will NEVER hear "BOkid" in Panay - it's "BUkid". It's the same with "kaOna" - it's "Ka-Una"... "POro" should be spelled "PUro" or "PUru"... but if the quote is from the book... well I guess it's just the deficiencies of the Roman alphabet, which is why I propose the use of IPA.
I am not a linguist, but the use of the 26-letter alphabet is simply insufficient - and people unfamiliar with the language will surely get the pronunciation wrong. For example there's a schwa vowel sound that's often spelled with a "u" - which is wrong if you think about it, because there's also a "u" sound in kinaray-a that sounds like a short "oo" - as in BUkid.
Let's at least start with the schwa (Ə, ə) - not that's not an anime emoticon - it's the capital and lower-case schwa (^^). This schwa sound is similar to the Japanese one - "Goju" is pronounced GO JƏ - so it should be GO JƏ RLYƏ not GO YOU RYOO (the Japanese "R" is actually something like "RL" with a "D" somewhere in the "RL" sound; the word commonly spelled as "jujitsu"/"jujutsu", is actually pronounced JəJƏTsə - NOT jooJITsoo. I typed the previous sentence because the words are better-known worldwide for those who aren't familiar with Kinaray-a
Anyway, back to Kinaray-a, particularly the vowels. How about the following?
A E I O U Ə
All are phonetic and pronounced as they are spelled. Think of them as Spanish vowels (except for the schwa). The "O" sound is uncommon - mostly used only in other Filipino (particularly Tagalog), derived, and foreign words. In the Western visayas, most words spelled with an "o" are usually pronounced as "u" / short "oo", and "e" as "i" / short "ee", which is why when most Visayans say English words like "West", you'll hear "WIST"... similar to the New Zealanders - except that they have a longer vowel - like "WEEST".
Let's try to create a standard for the spelling. I will try to get my relatives and friends to contribute here as well.
Sedotes ( talk) 01:35, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I believe that the existing writing system of Filipino languages (in fact - ALL languages written in Roman characters) is lacking. So here's where we input our recommendations on spelling/typing words. Maybe we can make a new, more accurate standard for the writing of Kinaray-a through this wiki.
Rules: edit your own entries and leave entries of other authors intact - just inform them of your suggestions below the relevant line or, discuss until you come to a consensus, then strike out or delete relevant lines.
Here are mine for the moment:
For vowels, use accented characters for the relevant words. Capitalize the syllables to be stressed (and/or type them in bold and/or italics). This will aid in pronunciation. For example: "waRÂ" ("nothing"/"none"), "MAYhâ" ("shy") which has a (glottal?) stop.
So which of these do we go for?
waRÂ
waRÂ
waRÂ
waRÂ
Use hyphens for words like "kaMA-an" ("know"), "bə-ƏL" ("get), "hiMU-a" ("make"/"do"), "sin-U"/"sin-O" ("who"), "di-IN" ("where), "gin-ƏT" ("hot")etc. so that pronunciation will be as accurate as possible.
Try to discriminate between the "u" sound and the "ə" sound. If they ARE interchangeable in your Kinaray-a dialect, state so.
I don't know much about Kinaray-a so I might be wrong, but shouldn't this article be titled simply "Kinaray-a" instead, or "Karay-a/Hiraya language"? As far as I know, the infix -in already indicates that the word it's inserted to pertains to a language, making the current title somewhat redundant.
What do you think? -- Pare Mo ( talk) 10:53, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Reverted the "uncontroversial" move as it was not uncontroversial. We just discussed this a couple months ago. If we want it moved to "Kinaray-a language", there should be a new discussion and consensus to do so.
Both Karay-a and Kinaray-a are common, but the former follows the general WP practice of using the same root for the people and their language. — kwami ( talk) 05:50, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Visayan languages which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 03:44, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Jenks24 ( talk) 14:36, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
Kinaray-a language →
Kinaray-a –
WP:PRIMARYTOPIC,
WP:COMMONNAME,
WP:CONCISE,
WP:NCLANG states that if the ethnicity article has a different title then the "language" suffix can be dropped.
Kinaray-a redirects here.
Shhhhwwww!! (
talk) 05:24, 27 July 2015 (UTC) --Relisted.
George Ho (
talk) 05:41, 3 August 2015 (UTC) --Relisted.
Alakzi (
talk)
00:53, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
Oppose. Just because something can be done does not mean it should be done. The present title makes it clear just what kind of an article it is and what it is talking about. Let's make things easier for the reader. BeenAroundAWhile ( talk) 05:47, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
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Ri ja kami antique 175.176.79.20 ( talk) 15:24, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
Tularan 2001:4454:4C2:7E00:E886:A72D:3A3D:7D16 ( talk) 13:23, 28 September 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
My name is fiona s mendoza I am 16 years old I live in pulong tamo San ildefinso Bulacan
I believe this is a dialect of Ilonggo. (Need to research)-- Jondel 10:05, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)
A section on the difference with Hiligaynon would be good since they are so similar and almost indiscernible from each other.-- Jondel 06:25, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
Chris, sorry. I keep forgetting.-- Jondel 00:38, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
I am not that familiar with Aklanon, but my Aklanon friends say that they cannot understand Kinaray-a... and to me, their language sounds Cebuano (just the intonation).-- Sedotes ( talk) 02:43, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I've seen plenty of samples of Aklanon writing, notwithstanding the l - e change, the vocabulary is really different, I believe Kinaray-a and Hiligaynon are much more mutually intelligible. The one thing is that I keep thinking that perhaps the linguist made a mistake classifying Hiligaynon as an Eastern Visayan Language (together with waray-waray) and kinaray-a as Western Visayan. There is one theory that talks about Hiligaynon being an offspring of kinaray-a after all. Richarddr1234 —Preceding undated comment was added at 16:22, 18 September 2008 (UTC).
No. Hiligaynon is not an offspring of Kinaray-a. See the talk page of Hiligaynon article. But they, together with Aklanon share a common language ancestor. All the three languages are not mutually intelligible at all. I have an Aklanon classmate who and said she can't understand Kinaray-a. She didn't understand Hiligaynon either until she started learning it. Today, she can now fluently speak Hiligaynon. Karay-as can't understand Hiligaynon either, except for the ones with contact with Ilonggos or are influenced by Hiligaynon mass media. My mother has a Karay-a friend who lived in a remote community somewhere in Antique. She can't understand Hiligaynon at all. That's why she speaks in Tagalog with us. She thought Hiligaynon would sound the same as Kinaray-a, but she was wrong. Ilonggos can't understand Karay-as too, and take that from me. I can't understand Kinray-a. Well maybe except the Ilonggos who has lived with Karay-as, like what this article said.
And maybe those linguists were right in classifying Hiligaynon as an Eastern Visayan language. Actually, Hiligaynon is more mutually intelligible with Cebuano than with Aklanon and Kinaray-a, though in the same island. But Ilonggos can understand Cebuano with some degree of difficulty (Cebuano sounds more like Hiligaynon than Aklanon or Kiniray-a) and Cebuanos understand Hiligaynon with less degree of difficulty. Take that from a Cebuana classmate of mine who speaks only Cebuano and Tagalog. She can really understand Hiligaynon. I asked her about this and she said Hiligaynon sounds a lot like Cebuano. This lead me to conclude that Cebuano and Hiligaynon had a common ancestral language while this ancestral language share another common ancestral language with Aklanon and Kinaray-a.-- 112.202.101.127 ( talk) 09:24, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
Please vote for our Wikipedia! -- 203.173.138.159 08:14, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
The request for Hiligaynon Wikipedia has now been verified as eligible
This means that after these 1732 interface messages have been translated into Gheg, then the Test-project will qualify for Final Approval. To translate those system messages, follow these steps. -- Jose77 ( talk) 09:49, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
I have to ask this: the iraya-ilawud-ilig explanation for the roots of Kinaray-a and Hiligaynon seems sensible. But has there really been a comprehensive and definitive study done about this? Just recently, I came to a realization that the shift from iraya to Karay-a or Kinaray-a seems to evade a sensibe explanation. Iraya to iniraya would be very natural in terms of construction, but not one speaker of the language calls the language that, although Ilonggo scholars like Mulato, Norada, and Deriada claim that Iniraya/Hiniraya are also used. Is there anyone here who knows that someone (an insider) really uses this term? Also, the glottal stop in the word also seems to escape some explanation. Does anyone know any other Kinaray-a word that has undergone the same transformation? *iraya -> iray-a? If there is none, then I suggest that we begin to doubt the scientificity of this explanation. -- emanlerona 13:38, 21 March 2006
Hi, everyone. Just discovered how to add to the Discussion page. This is the first wiki I have ever contributed in. YAY!
If there's a standard for Kinaray-a spelling, I believe it needs improvement, as the 26-letter Roman alphabet just won't do.
Anyway, regarding the book mentioned in this article...
One will NEVER hear "BOkid" in Panay - it's "BUkid". It's the same with "kaOna" - it's "Ka-Una"... "POro" should be spelled "PUro" or "PUru"... but if the quote is from the book... well I guess it's just the deficiencies of the Roman alphabet, which is why I propose the use of IPA.
I am not a linguist, but the use of the 26-letter alphabet is simply insufficient - and people unfamiliar with the language will surely get the pronunciation wrong. For example there's a schwa vowel sound that's often spelled with a "u" - which is wrong if you think about it, because there's also a "u" sound in kinaray-a that sounds like a short "oo" - as in BUkid.
Let's at least start with the schwa (Ə, ə) - not that's not an anime emoticon - it's the capital and lower-case schwa (^^). This schwa sound is similar to the Japanese one - "Goju" is pronounced GO JƏ - so it should be GO JƏ RLYƏ not GO YOU RYOO (the Japanese "R" is actually something like "RL" with a "D" somewhere in the "RL" sound; the word commonly spelled as "jujitsu"/"jujutsu", is actually pronounced JəJƏTsə - NOT jooJITsoo. I typed the previous sentence because the words are better-known worldwide for those who aren't familiar with Kinaray-a
Anyway, back to Kinaray-a, particularly the vowels. How about the following?
A E I O U Ə
All are phonetic and pronounced as they are spelled. Think of them as Spanish vowels (except for the schwa). The "O" sound is uncommon - mostly used only in other Filipino (particularly Tagalog), derived, and foreign words. In the Western visayas, most words spelled with an "o" are usually pronounced as "u" / short "oo", and "e" as "i" / short "ee", which is why when most Visayans say English words like "West", you'll hear "WIST"... similar to the New Zealanders - except that they have a longer vowel - like "WEEST".
Let's try to create a standard for the spelling. I will try to get my relatives and friends to contribute here as well.
Sedotes ( talk) 01:35, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I believe that the existing writing system of Filipino languages (in fact - ALL languages written in Roman characters) is lacking. So here's where we input our recommendations on spelling/typing words. Maybe we can make a new, more accurate standard for the writing of Kinaray-a through this wiki.
Rules: edit your own entries and leave entries of other authors intact - just inform them of your suggestions below the relevant line or, discuss until you come to a consensus, then strike out or delete relevant lines.
Here are mine for the moment:
For vowels, use accented characters for the relevant words. Capitalize the syllables to be stressed (and/or type them in bold and/or italics). This will aid in pronunciation. For example: "waRÂ" ("nothing"/"none"), "MAYhâ" ("shy") which has a (glottal?) stop.
So which of these do we go for?
waRÂ
waRÂ
waRÂ
waRÂ
Use hyphens for words like "kaMA-an" ("know"), "bə-ƏL" ("get), "hiMU-a" ("make"/"do"), "sin-U"/"sin-O" ("who"), "di-IN" ("where), "gin-ƏT" ("hot")etc. so that pronunciation will be as accurate as possible.
Try to discriminate between the "u" sound and the "ə" sound. If they ARE interchangeable in your Kinaray-a dialect, state so.
I don't know much about Kinaray-a so I might be wrong, but shouldn't this article be titled simply "Kinaray-a" instead, or "Karay-a/Hiraya language"? As far as I know, the infix -in already indicates that the word it's inserted to pertains to a language, making the current title somewhat redundant.
What do you think? -- Pare Mo ( talk) 10:53, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
Reverted the "uncontroversial" move as it was not uncontroversial. We just discussed this a couple months ago. If we want it moved to "Kinaray-a language", there should be a new discussion and consensus to do so.
Both Karay-a and Kinaray-a are common, but the former follows the general WP practice of using the same root for the people and their language. — kwami ( talk) 05:50, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Visayan languages which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. — RMCD bot 03:44, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. Jenks24 ( talk) 14:36, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
Kinaray-a language →
Kinaray-a –
WP:PRIMARYTOPIC,
WP:COMMONNAME,
WP:CONCISE,
WP:NCLANG states that if the ethnicity article has a different title then the "language" suffix can be dropped.
Kinaray-a redirects here.
Shhhhwwww!! (
talk) 05:24, 27 July 2015 (UTC) --Relisted.
George Ho (
talk) 05:41, 3 August 2015 (UTC) --Relisted.
Alakzi (
talk)
00:53, 11 August 2015 (UTC)
Oppose. Just because something can be done does not mean it should be done. The present title makes it clear just what kind of an article it is and what it is talking about. Let's make things easier for the reader. BeenAroundAWhile ( talk) 05:47, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Karay-a language. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 06:46, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
Ri ja kami antique 175.176.79.20 ( talk) 15:24, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
Tularan 2001:4454:4C2:7E00:E886:A72D:3A3D:7D16 ( talk) 13:23, 28 September 2022 (UTC)