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Killing of Nick Berg article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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Is it really necessary to have an external link to the video footage? Is Wikipedia a portal for snuff movies now?? If people really want to see it (for whatever reason) they can find it through Google. I see no value in encouraging people to watch it.
Toloatzin ( talk) 11:47, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
It's there and serves a genuine purpose. What may be a stomach churning point in history is history and should be accounted for, both good and not so good. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.203.94 ( talk) 23:11, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
108.58.107.174 ( talk) 10:48, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
Inappropriate to what? Many of these are credible news sources. Seems whoever you are you've just removed anything negative that might cast doubt on the Berg family account of what happened. Anon IP editors don't get to make such sweeping, obviously biased changes, a logged in editor wouldn't get away with it. A few of these are dead links but many are articles or archives of articles from legit sources, NY Times, Sydney Morning Herald, CNN, NY Daily News, AP Newswire via Yahoo. Status4 ( talk) 18:57, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
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Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 13:30, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
I removed the quote here because it is already parphrased in the text and it is not clear what the quote adds at all. VR talk 18:05, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
VR talk 17:36, 13 August 2020 (UTC)During the video, the man reading the statement said the killing was in revenge for the abuse at Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse and threatens further deaths. The video also threatens U.S. President George W. Bush and Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf.
User
Vice regent has removed twice a direct quotation from the article,
the first time using a misleading edit summary (“added The Guardian”),
the second time, after
my disagreement, stating that “it is not clear what the quotation adds that the paraphrase doesn't already include”.
Before their intervention (edit summary: “added The Guardian”) the paragraph looked like this:
During the video, the man reading the statement threatens further deaths: "We tell you that the dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and others is not redeemed except by blood and souls. You will not receive anything from us but coffins after coffins ... slaughtered in this way." The video further threatens U.S. President George W. Bush and Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf.
Currently it looks like this:
During the video, the man reading the statement said the killing was in revenge for the abuse at Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse and threatens further deaths. The video also threatens U.S. President George W. Bush and Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf.
I believe that the removal of the sentence has the effect of impoverishing Wikipedia's accurate report of information. And, by reducing the space given to the “further threats”, has the apologetic effect of unbalancing the quotation towards America's Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse, although the latter have no actual part in the death of Nick Berg. -- Grufo ( talk) 18:20, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
Vice regent, after your removal of the original quotation and your will to stretch the mention of Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse, I have constructively tried to find a compromise where both points of view were cohabiting, both your wish to emphasize Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse and my wish to keep an original quotation simply as it is. So, after my edit the paragraph looked like this:
During the video, the man reading the statement said the killing was in revenge for the abuse at Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse and threatens further deaths: "So we tell you that the dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and others is not redeemed except by blood and souls. You will not receive anything from us but coffin after coffin ... slaughtered in this way." The video further threatens U.S. President George W. Bush and Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf.
But yet, despite my proposal to be constructive and inclusive, you have reverted my proposal and re-inserted your own version. Now that you know what my concerns are, could you please explain why you still believe that we should accept the removal of the quotation as it is, and why exactly you think it is so important to remove such quotation from Wikipedia? -- Grufo ( talk) 19:22, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
For the mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we asked the U.S. administration to exchange this hostage with some of the detainees in Abu Ghraib, and they refused. So we tell you that the dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and others is not redeemed except by blood and souls. You will receive nothing from us but coffin after coffin slaughtered in this way. Does Al Qaeda need any more excuses? And how does a free Muslim sleep comfortably watching Islam being slaughtered, and its dignity being drained? The shameful photos are evil humiliation for Muslim men and women in the Abu Ghraib prison. Where is the sense of honor, where is the rage? Where is the anger for God's religion? Where is the sense of veneration for Muslims, and where is the sense of vengeance for the honor of Muslim men and women in the Crusaders prisons? Regarding you, Bush, Dog of the West, we are giving you good news which will displease you. Your worst days are coming, with the help of God. You and your soldiers will regret the day when your feet touched the land of Iraq and showered your bravery on shelters of Muslims.
There seem to be some questions over the Berg killing video not what it purports to be. I found an article in the Sydney Morning Herald and this one from Al-Jazeera covering the issue. Is it WP:DUE to include this in the article? VR talk 03:50, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Killing of Nick Berg article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1, 2Auto-archiving period: 48 days |
A news item involving Killing of Nick Berg was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 12 May 2004. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This page has archives. Sections older than 48 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
Is it really necessary to have an external link to the video footage? Is Wikipedia a portal for snuff movies now?? If people really want to see it (for whatever reason) they can find it through Google. I see no value in encouraging people to watch it.
Toloatzin ( talk) 11:47, 26 December 2009 (UTC)
It's there and serves a genuine purpose. What may be a stomach churning point in history is history and should be accounted for, both good and not so good. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.203.94 ( talk) 23:11, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
108.58.107.174 ( talk) 10:48, 5 September 2014 (UTC)
Inappropriate to what? Many of these are credible news sources. Seems whoever you are you've just removed anything negative that might cast doubt on the Berg family account of what happened. Anon IP editors don't get to make such sweeping, obviously biased changes, a logged in editor wouldn't get away with it. A few of these are dead links but many are articles or archives of articles from legit sources, NY Times, Sydney Morning Herald, CNN, NY Daily News, AP Newswire via Yahoo. Status4 ( talk) 18:57, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Nick Berg. Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 13:30, 7 January 2016 (UTC)
I removed the quote here because it is already parphrased in the text and it is not clear what the quote adds at all. VR talk 18:05, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
VR talk 17:36, 13 August 2020 (UTC)During the video, the man reading the statement said the killing was in revenge for the abuse at Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse and threatens further deaths. The video also threatens U.S. President George W. Bush and Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf.
User
Vice regent has removed twice a direct quotation from the article,
the first time using a misleading edit summary (“added The Guardian”),
the second time, after
my disagreement, stating that “it is not clear what the quotation adds that the paraphrase doesn't already include”.
Before their intervention (edit summary: “added The Guardian”) the paragraph looked like this:
During the video, the man reading the statement threatens further deaths: "We tell you that the dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and others is not redeemed except by blood and souls. You will not receive anything from us but coffins after coffins ... slaughtered in this way." The video further threatens U.S. President George W. Bush and Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf.
Currently it looks like this:
During the video, the man reading the statement said the killing was in revenge for the abuse at Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse and threatens further deaths. The video also threatens U.S. President George W. Bush and Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf.
I believe that the removal of the sentence has the effect of impoverishing Wikipedia's accurate report of information. And, by reducing the space given to the “further threats”, has the apologetic effect of unbalancing the quotation towards America's Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse, although the latter have no actual part in the death of Nick Berg. -- Grufo ( talk) 18:20, 12 August 2020 (UTC)
Vice regent, after your removal of the original quotation and your will to stretch the mention of Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse, I have constructively tried to find a compromise where both points of view were cohabiting, both your wish to emphasize Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse and my wish to keep an original quotation simply as it is. So, after my edit the paragraph looked like this:
During the video, the man reading the statement said the killing was in revenge for the abuse at Abu Ghraib torture and prisoner abuse and threatens further deaths: "So we tell you that the dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and others is not redeemed except by blood and souls. You will not receive anything from us but coffin after coffin ... slaughtered in this way." The video further threatens U.S. President George W. Bush and Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf.
But yet, despite my proposal to be constructive and inclusive, you have reverted my proposal and re-inserted your own version. Now that you know what my concerns are, could you please explain why you still believe that we should accept the removal of the quotation as it is, and why exactly you think it is so important to remove such quotation from Wikipedia? -- Grufo ( talk) 19:22, 13 August 2020 (UTC)
For the mothers and wives of American soldiers, we tell you that we asked the U.S. administration to exchange this hostage with some of the detainees in Abu Ghraib, and they refused. So we tell you that the dignity of the Muslim men and women in Abu Ghraib and others is not redeemed except by blood and souls. You will receive nothing from us but coffin after coffin slaughtered in this way. Does Al Qaeda need any more excuses? And how does a free Muslim sleep comfortably watching Islam being slaughtered, and its dignity being drained? The shameful photos are evil humiliation for Muslim men and women in the Abu Ghraib prison. Where is the sense of honor, where is the rage? Where is the anger for God's religion? Where is the sense of veneration for Muslims, and where is the sense of vengeance for the honor of Muslim men and women in the Crusaders prisons? Regarding you, Bush, Dog of the West, we are giving you good news which will displease you. Your worst days are coming, with the help of God. You and your soldiers will regret the day when your feet touched the land of Iraq and showered your bravery on shelters of Muslims.
There seem to be some questions over the Berg killing video not what it purports to be. I found an article in the Sydney Morning Herald and this one from Al-Jazeera covering the issue. Is it WP:DUE to include this in the article? VR talk 03:50, 15 August 2020 (UTC)