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This article is written in
British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other
varieties of English. According to the
relevant style guide, this should not be changed without
broad consensus.
Currently reading the article.VRtalk 00:07, 28 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Mujinga, good work on the article, a few comments:
The "Killing" section should be broken up into two sections, "Killing" and then "Charges and trial".
Not sure if there is enough detail on the trial to justify it's own section
Mujinga (
talk) 11:18, 4 July 2022 (UTC)reply
The charges and trial part needs more detail. When did this trial happen? Why was there no evidence for manslaughter? What explanation is given for this in RS?
Sources don't say exactly when the trial was. All the sources say is what is in the article, the charges were dropped for lack of evidence. I just had a scan of the sources and newspapers.com and couldn't find out more
Mujinga (
talk) 11:18, 4 July 2022 (UTC)reply
One of the sources in the article
[1] says "However, by the time of the trial in May 2000, the men, Graham Curtis and Peter Bell, were charged only with affray and actual bodily harm to Jay’s brother, Michael, on which they were ultimately cleared." Is that the date of the trial? VRtalk 13:52, 27 July 2022 (UTC)reply
thanks, I've added in 2000
Mujinga (
talk) 14:29, 29 July 2022 (UTC)reply
"any help in finding the killers." I thought the two attackers had been arrested already? When did this happen? Again, dates would make things clear.
No-one has ever been convicted of the crime, so the search for the killers continues (for the family at least, police have closed the investigation). The date for this is in the sentence you quoted from, it's 2003.
Mujinga (
talk) 11:10, 4 July 2022 (UTC)reply
The immediate aftermath of the killing should be in the "Killing" section not "Aftermath". This is because the "Aftermath" covers events over 20 years and it makes things confusing. I would also give the investigations into police conduct its own section.
I've made two new sections
Mujinga (
talk) 11:21, 4 July 2022 (UTC)reply
There are several key details from the article that are missing in the lead: that the killing was believed to be racially motivated, the result of the bodily injury trial, and many of the key details of the police failings (including the police hiding that an officer may have been connected to the killing).
racially motivated - added
the result of the bodily injury trial - I think that's too much detail for the lead since it concerns the borther, not Jay Abatan
key details of the police failings - added a sentence about misconduct and a sentence about the police officer drinking with suspects
Mujinga (
talk) 11:32, 4 July 2022 (UTC)reply
Please address the above, thanks.VRtalk 09:45, 1 July 2022 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the comments, I think I've replied on everything
Mujinga (
talk) 11:33, 4 July 2022 (UTC)reply
I'm currently doing some quick research myself to determine if this article is comprehensive enough, as it is on the short side. Google scholar shows only 3 sources
[2], only 1 hit
[3] in Jstor and ~1000 results
[4] in google in general (which is a low amount). At the same time, I see that more details can still be added. For example,
The Guardian has
details on the events are missing (for example,
Jack Straw's refusal to meet with the family). But at this time I'm inclined to think that this article will be as long as RS allow it to be.VRtalk 16:43, 27 July 2022 (UTC)reply
That Guardian article is an interview with the brother and I haven't found that Jack Straw detail anywhere else so I think I'd rather not include it
Mujinga (
talk) 14:31, 29 July 2022 (UTC)reply
Also explain what was "operation dorchester" (see
BBC source).VRtalk 16:54, 27 July 2022 (UTC)reply
A stylistic note: the article uses a lot of semicolons to connect sentences that I feel would be better off as individual sentences. I won't hold up the GA review for this, but
Mujinga would you please consider going through this article and reviewing those sentences? VRtalk 16:48, 27 July 2022 (UTC)reply
I agree there were a lot so I've rephrased to omit a few
Mujinga (
talk) 14:28, 29 July 2022 (UTC)reply
GA review (see
here for what the criteria are, and
here for what they are not)
I've read the article several times, I think it is well written and organized. The nominator has responded well to suggestions on improving writing and organization.
The article is focused. Whether it contains all the necessary details is ongoing above. Please also see my explanation above on why it is ok that this article is on the short side.
Hi I've replied to everything above. Hope that's covered everything! I don't think there needs to be references in the lead and would have preferred to discuss the changes you made, but I think the article has overall improved during the review so I'm grateful for that. It's always difficult to write about deaths and miscarriages of justice in a way that is objective and encyclopaedic, hopefully we have managed that here. Cheers,
Mujinga (
talk) 14:46, 29 July 2022 (UTC)reply
Thanks. Can you please comment on the issue of the image copyright?VRtalk 08:48, 2 August 2022 (UTC)reply
It's copyrighted and therefore used with a fair use license "to illustrate the subject in question". I'm not that fussed about it, I think the license is good but also don't mind to remove the image.
Mujinga (
talk) 13:11, 3 August 2022 (UTC)reply
VR just checking if you are continuing with the review? Thanks
Mujinga (
talk) 09:59, 25 August 2022 (UTC)reply
Let me ping someone far more knowledgeable about copyright than me: @
Diannaa:. Is it ok to use
File:Jay Abatan.jpeg in a good article? VRtalk 02:07, 27 August 2022 (UTC)reply
It's properly tagged for fair use, and it's unlikely there's any public domain images available. Should be okay. —
Diannaa (
talk) 13:42, 27 August 2022 (UTC)reply
Status query
VR,
Mujinga, what's the status of this review. Are there any outstanding issues now that the image seems to be allowable? It would be nice to get this review moving again—or concluded, if it's ready to be listed. Many thanks.
BlueMoonset (
talk) 03:48, 18 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Thanks for checking in. I last queried what was going on
September 4. I think we're there now but waiting on reviewer's opinion.
Mujinga (
talk) 09:11, 18 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Sorry for the delay, I was offline for last few weeks. Now that we know there's no issue with the image, this article is ready to become a
WP:GA. Congratulations
Mujinga.VRtalk 11:01, 26 September 2022 (UTC)reply
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to
join the project and
contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the
documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Brighton, an attempt at creating a standardized, informative, comprehensive and easy-to-use resource about Brighton and Hove. If you would like to participate, please visit the
project pageBrightonWikipedia:WikiProject BrightonTemplate:WikiProject BrightonBrighton articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
This article is written in
British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other
varieties of English. According to the
relevant style guide, this should not be changed without
broad consensus.
Currently reading the article.VRtalk 00:07, 28 June 2022 (UTC)reply
Mujinga, good work on the article, a few comments:
The "Killing" section should be broken up into two sections, "Killing" and then "Charges and trial".
Not sure if there is enough detail on the trial to justify it's own section
Mujinga (
talk) 11:18, 4 July 2022 (UTC)reply
The charges and trial part needs more detail. When did this trial happen? Why was there no evidence for manslaughter? What explanation is given for this in RS?
Sources don't say exactly when the trial was. All the sources say is what is in the article, the charges were dropped for lack of evidence. I just had a scan of the sources and newspapers.com and couldn't find out more
Mujinga (
talk) 11:18, 4 July 2022 (UTC)reply
One of the sources in the article
[1] says "However, by the time of the trial in May 2000, the men, Graham Curtis and Peter Bell, were charged only with affray and actual bodily harm to Jay’s brother, Michael, on which they were ultimately cleared." Is that the date of the trial? VRtalk 13:52, 27 July 2022 (UTC)reply
thanks, I've added in 2000
Mujinga (
talk) 14:29, 29 July 2022 (UTC)reply
"any help in finding the killers." I thought the two attackers had been arrested already? When did this happen? Again, dates would make things clear.
No-one has ever been convicted of the crime, so the search for the killers continues (for the family at least, police have closed the investigation). The date for this is in the sentence you quoted from, it's 2003.
Mujinga (
talk) 11:10, 4 July 2022 (UTC)reply
The immediate aftermath of the killing should be in the "Killing" section not "Aftermath". This is because the "Aftermath" covers events over 20 years and it makes things confusing. I would also give the investigations into police conduct its own section.
I've made two new sections
Mujinga (
talk) 11:21, 4 July 2022 (UTC)reply
There are several key details from the article that are missing in the lead: that the killing was believed to be racially motivated, the result of the bodily injury trial, and many of the key details of the police failings (including the police hiding that an officer may have been connected to the killing).
racially motivated - added
the result of the bodily injury trial - I think that's too much detail for the lead since it concerns the borther, not Jay Abatan
key details of the police failings - added a sentence about misconduct and a sentence about the police officer drinking with suspects
Mujinga (
talk) 11:32, 4 July 2022 (UTC)reply
Please address the above, thanks.VRtalk 09:45, 1 July 2022 (UTC)reply
Thanks for the comments, I think I've replied on everything
Mujinga (
talk) 11:33, 4 July 2022 (UTC)reply
I'm currently doing some quick research myself to determine if this article is comprehensive enough, as it is on the short side. Google scholar shows only 3 sources
[2], only 1 hit
[3] in Jstor and ~1000 results
[4] in google in general (which is a low amount). At the same time, I see that more details can still be added. For example,
The Guardian has
details on the events are missing (for example,
Jack Straw's refusal to meet with the family). But at this time I'm inclined to think that this article will be as long as RS allow it to be.VRtalk 16:43, 27 July 2022 (UTC)reply
That Guardian article is an interview with the brother and I haven't found that Jack Straw detail anywhere else so I think I'd rather not include it
Mujinga (
talk) 14:31, 29 July 2022 (UTC)reply
Also explain what was "operation dorchester" (see
BBC source).VRtalk 16:54, 27 July 2022 (UTC)reply
A stylistic note: the article uses a lot of semicolons to connect sentences that I feel would be better off as individual sentences. I won't hold up the GA review for this, but
Mujinga would you please consider going through this article and reviewing those sentences? VRtalk 16:48, 27 July 2022 (UTC)reply
I agree there were a lot so I've rephrased to omit a few
Mujinga (
talk) 14:28, 29 July 2022 (UTC)reply
GA review (see
here for what the criteria are, and
here for what they are not)
I've read the article several times, I think it is well written and organized. The nominator has responded well to suggestions on improving writing and organization.
The article is focused. Whether it contains all the necessary details is ongoing above. Please also see my explanation above on why it is ok that this article is on the short side.
Hi I've replied to everything above. Hope that's covered everything! I don't think there needs to be references in the lead and would have preferred to discuss the changes you made, but I think the article has overall improved during the review so I'm grateful for that. It's always difficult to write about deaths and miscarriages of justice in a way that is objective and encyclopaedic, hopefully we have managed that here. Cheers,
Mujinga (
talk) 14:46, 29 July 2022 (UTC)reply
Thanks. Can you please comment on the issue of the image copyright?VRtalk 08:48, 2 August 2022 (UTC)reply
It's copyrighted and therefore used with a fair use license "to illustrate the subject in question". I'm not that fussed about it, I think the license is good but also don't mind to remove the image.
Mujinga (
talk) 13:11, 3 August 2022 (UTC)reply
VR just checking if you are continuing with the review? Thanks
Mujinga (
talk) 09:59, 25 August 2022 (UTC)reply
Let me ping someone far more knowledgeable about copyright than me: @
Diannaa:. Is it ok to use
File:Jay Abatan.jpeg in a good article? VRtalk 02:07, 27 August 2022 (UTC)reply
It's properly tagged for fair use, and it's unlikely there's any public domain images available. Should be okay. —
Diannaa (
talk) 13:42, 27 August 2022 (UTC)reply
Status query
VR,
Mujinga, what's the status of this review. Are there any outstanding issues now that the image seems to be allowable? It would be nice to get this review moving again—or concluded, if it's ready to be listed. Many thanks.
BlueMoonset (
talk) 03:48, 18 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Thanks for checking in. I last queried what was going on
September 4. I think we're there now but waiting on reviewer's opinion.
Mujinga (
talk) 09:11, 18 September 2022 (UTC)reply
Sorry for the delay, I was offline for last few weeks. Now that we know there's no issue with the image, this article is ready to become a
WP:GA. Congratulations
Mujinga.VRtalk 11:01, 26 September 2022 (UTC)reply