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It is requested that an image or photograph of Killing of Ashli Babbitt be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
Calling this "Killing of Ashli Babbitt" is inaccurate, in that it implies she was singled out as a target for killing when she was, in fact, a domestic terrorist who was lawfully shot by a police officer while she was violently rioting. Title should be changed to "Death of Ashli Babbitt."
Moviethings (
talk)
15:06, 17 August 2023 (UTC)reply
As far as I know, there is no evidence she was a terrorist. Even if there was, killing and death are really synonymous. Nor does killing imply unlawful, I can be killed by a falling tree.
Slatersteven (
talk)
15:12, 17 August 2023 (UTC)reply
Others might argue she participated in a riot, and no insurrection (by definition) is not terrorism, it is insurrection. Terrorism is "the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.", as far as I am aware no one has produced any evidence she did anything more than trespass. Bye the way insurrection is "insurrection a violent uprising against an authority or government.", again there is no evidence she was in fact violent.
Slatersteven (
talk)
15:35, 17 August 2023 (UTC)reply
Moviethings's complaint is obviously problematic, but the current title ("Killing of") _is_ unCOMMON -- the desire to standardize nomenclature across articles is laudable, but standardization erases the nuances provided by RS in each article -- they seem to refer to the case as a "shooting" more than a "killing". It's not the end of the world, but we can do better.
Feoffer (
talk)
13:29, 23 September 2023 (UTC)reply
She was killed; she didn't just "die". There was a human actor who caused her death, and did so through a deliberate act of violence against her. The fact that it's considered justifiable homicide ("killing someone", full stop, isn't a crime in and of itself, and most people don't necessarily consider all "killings" to be immoral; murder is, manslaughter is, negligent homicide is, etc., but not self-defense) doesn't make it not a killing. I also think "shooting of [blank]" article titles are silly as that wording obscures the lethal outcome of the shooting. You can be shot and not die. You can be killed without having been "murdered".
WP Ludicer (
talk)
19:27, 24 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Would it, give an example of an article about a black person killed in pursuance of a crime where we say in the first sentence he was unarmed?
Slatersteven (
talk)
11:01, 10 March 2024 (UTC)reply
She was shot in the neck not in her shoulder. Another misleading statement.
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
I agree, but the bold title should generally match the article name, so really this needs a
WP:RM to fix. Currently this follows the flowchart in an essay, which here pretty brazenly conflicts with a core policy, to wit
WP:COMMONNAME.
109.255.211.6 (
talk)
08:29, 20 January 2024 (UTC)reply
The current page title is a result of
this mass move discussion. If you feel like there was insufficient participation or consensus was interpreted incorrectly, feel free to take any steps you believe are necessary. I also don't see how there is any conflict with
WP:COMMONNAME; there are plenty of sources that use the word "killed" to describe the incident. In the meantime, I'm closing this request, pending further discussion and consensus.
Liu1126 (
talk)
12:53, 20 January 2024 (UTC)reply
No you have made an argument, I do not find it compelling as you have not provided any reason to assume that killing means illegal activity. So until you do I object to this suggestion, and really have no more to say.
Slatersteven (
talk)
14:22, 22 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Common practice is discussed at
WP:DEATHS. There's a flow chart and everything.
WP:UCRN notes that ambiguous titles should not be used, and both formulations are equally recognizable, so we're compliant with the policy as well.
VQuakr (
talk)
16:46, 22 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a
"change X to Y" format and provide a
reliable source if appropriate.
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people, which has been
designated as a contentious topic.
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Join,
Create, and
Assess.Law EnforcementWikipedia:WikiProject Law EnforcementTemplate:WikiProject Law EnforcementLaw enforcement articles
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It is requested that an image or photograph of Killing of Ashli Babbitt be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
Calling this "Killing of Ashli Babbitt" is inaccurate, in that it implies she was singled out as a target for killing when she was, in fact, a domestic terrorist who was lawfully shot by a police officer while she was violently rioting. Title should be changed to "Death of Ashli Babbitt."
Moviethings (
talk)
15:06, 17 August 2023 (UTC)reply
As far as I know, there is no evidence she was a terrorist. Even if there was, killing and death are really synonymous. Nor does killing imply unlawful, I can be killed by a falling tree.
Slatersteven (
talk)
15:12, 17 August 2023 (UTC)reply
Others might argue she participated in a riot, and no insurrection (by definition) is not terrorism, it is insurrection. Terrorism is "the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.", as far as I am aware no one has produced any evidence she did anything more than trespass. Bye the way insurrection is "insurrection a violent uprising against an authority or government.", again there is no evidence she was in fact violent.
Slatersteven (
talk)
15:35, 17 August 2023 (UTC)reply
Moviethings's complaint is obviously problematic, but the current title ("Killing of") _is_ unCOMMON -- the desire to standardize nomenclature across articles is laudable, but standardization erases the nuances provided by RS in each article -- they seem to refer to the case as a "shooting" more than a "killing". It's not the end of the world, but we can do better.
Feoffer (
talk)
13:29, 23 September 2023 (UTC)reply
She was killed; she didn't just "die". There was a human actor who caused her death, and did so through a deliberate act of violence against her. The fact that it's considered justifiable homicide ("killing someone", full stop, isn't a crime in and of itself, and most people don't necessarily consider all "killings" to be immoral; murder is, manslaughter is, negligent homicide is, etc., but not self-defense) doesn't make it not a killing. I also think "shooting of [blank]" article titles are silly as that wording obscures the lethal outcome of the shooting. You can be shot and not die. You can be killed without having been "murdered".
WP Ludicer (
talk)
19:27, 24 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Would it, give an example of an article about a black person killed in pursuance of a crime where we say in the first sentence he was unarmed?
Slatersteven (
talk)
11:01, 10 March 2024 (UTC)reply
She was shot in the neck not in her shoulder. Another misleading statement.
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
I agree, but the bold title should generally match the article name, so really this needs a
WP:RM to fix. Currently this follows the flowchart in an essay, which here pretty brazenly conflicts with a core policy, to wit
WP:COMMONNAME.
109.255.211.6 (
talk)
08:29, 20 January 2024 (UTC)reply
The current page title is a result of
this mass move discussion. If you feel like there was insufficient participation or consensus was interpreted incorrectly, feel free to take any steps you believe are necessary. I also don't see how there is any conflict with
WP:COMMONNAME; there are plenty of sources that use the word "killed" to describe the incident. In the meantime, I'm closing this request, pending further discussion and consensus.
Liu1126 (
talk)
12:53, 20 January 2024 (UTC)reply
No you have made an argument, I do not find it compelling as you have not provided any reason to assume that killing means illegal activity. So until you do I object to this suggestion, and really have no more to say.
Slatersteven (
talk)
14:22, 22 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Common practice is discussed at
WP:DEATHS. There's a flow chart and everything.
WP:UCRN notes that ambiguous titles should not be used, and both formulations are equally recognizable, so we're compliant with the policy as well.
VQuakr (
talk)
16:46, 22 January 2024 (UTC)reply
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a
"change X to Y" format and provide a
reliable source if appropriate.