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The result of the move request was: moved as proposed. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Mdaniels5757 ( talk) 02:15, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
Shooting of Ahmaud Arbery → Killing of Ahmaud Arbery – I believe this article should be reconsidered for the title change. Please reconsider this based at least in part on the proposed flowchart to the right for article titles which makes perfect sense. It will be reasonable for consistency. When person a dies as a result of human action, regardless of intent or criminal responsibility, it is a killing. Google Dictionary (kill): verb: cause the death of (a person, animal, or other living thing) "her father was killed in a car crash"; noun: an act of killing, especially of one animal by another. Dictionary.com: to deprive of life in any manner; cause the death of. MacMillan Dictionary: to make a person or other living thing die. Collins Dictionary: to cause the death of (a person or animal). "More than 1,000 people have been killed by the armed forces; The earthquake killed 62 people; Heroin can kill". The medical examiner has ruled homicide. Also note: the title of the article, Killing of Rayshard Brooks. "Shooting" is not the best title word because many shootings are not fatal. It is better to be precise. If we want to be more descriptive, we could title it the "Shooting and Killing of Ahmaud Arbery", but this is too wordy; "Killing" is the best fit. We have to deal with reality: Ahmaud Arbery was killed by a gun. We must not downplay the seriousness of the matter by the mere title "Shooting". Quaerens-veritatem ( talk) 08:43, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
"We must not downplay the seriousness of the matter"that this is more a matter of WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS than of WP:TITLES policy. -- Netoholic @ 11:24, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
Any killing is more serious compared to a shootingand I believe a title should reflect this. Accuracy is important. Inversely, perhaps your being wed to "shooting" is a wish to downplay the event? Let's try to avoid WP:USTHEM Quaerens-veritatem ( talk) 11:38, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
unjustifiable/wrongful death. "Killing" implies untimely death at the hands of someone, which is exactly what this situation entails. "Murder" implies unjustifiable/wrongful. Clearly Arbery was killed, as he should still be alive. He wasn't merely "shot" as it is useful to clarify in the page title that he did not survive the shooting, improving precision. – Muboshgu ( talk) 19:38, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
The act or action of causing death, as of a person.
the act of one that kills(" kills" defined as
to deprive of life : cause the death of)
the act of a person or thing that kill(" kill" defined as
to deprive of life in any manner; cause the death of; slay.)
an act of killing somebody deliberately
an occasion when a person is murdered
A killing is an act of deliberately killing a personLevivich dubious – discuss 20:42, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
(1) Counts: I don't understand why there are 4 counts of felony murder. We have 3 defendants. Is one of them charged with two counts? Why? I also don't understand why there are only 2 counts of aggravated assault and not 3 counts (autopsy says Arbery was hit by all 3 shots fired).
(2) Prosecution of the McMichaels and Bryan: It says "The investigator testified that none of the three had called 9-1-1". I understand this as meaning that Arbery wasn't reported to the police before the shooting and that no 911 calls were made by any of the defendants until after the shooting. This is demonstrably false. The police were called around the time when the McMichaels started the chase and were on their way while the chase was happening. As the article states correctly, they arrive right after the shooting so they have to have been called several minutes before. Second, Greg McMichael was on the phone with the police while the shooting happened. Several 911 calls have been published in connection with the shooting. I think the article should reflect that.
Chaptagai ( talk) 22:30, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The "jogging" claim was spurious from the beginning and remains so as we have video showing Arbery took off sprinting from the house he was in when people saw him in it. If the court later determines that he wasn't "jogging" this page must reflect so.
MWise12 (
talk) 16:30, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
The user who began this thread had been blocked as a sockpuppet.
Neutrality
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The lead needs to make these three things clear; 1) Arbery was pursued. 2) While being pursued, the McMichaels got out of their vehicles and there was a confrontation. 3) This confrontation is when the shooting happened. The current wording of events in the lead makes it sound as if Arbery was shot in the back, or in a driveby, when that is not what happened. MWise12 ( talk) 16:58, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
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He was recorded breaking into a construction site. 72.183.184.103 ( talk) 19:59, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
In 1985 in Tennessee v. Garner,the Supreme Court struck down a Tennessee statute that allowed a police officer to “use all the necessary means to effect the arrest" of an individual whom the officer suspected was fleeing or forcibly resisting detention. The case involved a Memphis police officer who shot and killed a teenager who jumped over a fence at night in the backyard of a house that the officer suspected was burglarized, though the officer was “reasonably sure” the suspect was unarmed. “The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable,” said the 6-3 decision, written by Justice Byron White. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:6000:7A40:9079:18C0:340C:811 ( talk) 00:22, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
The source cited for this statement attributes this act to William Bryan and his truck, not the McMichaels. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:79D0:66E0:6475:3F4:105A:1705 ( talk) 04:24, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
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Moo813 ( talk) 18:26, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
Need to add that they pursued him because Arbery had trespassed at the house. https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/18/us/ahmaud-arbery-surveillance-timeline/index.html
As court proceedings can become quite complicated, it may be helpful to add some short table or overview with the more important RESULTS. I don't mind the details and time stamps, these are fine, but I reason in favour of a table to see a quick overview of what the court found (once the proceedings are done; of course right now this is an open case, so we have to wait, but I mention this in particular because many people are probably interested in what the court will come to determine). 2A02:8388:1602:6D80:715F:7F61:13E7:2FA0 ( talk) 22:06, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
Jogging as a hobby is usually meant to mean running at a low or medium pace for the purpose of increasing physical fitness. It is true that when he came into confrontation with the suspects mentioned in the article he was "jogging" as in running a medium pace but there is no evidence that his running at the time was part of a recreational pursuit in and of its own. To describe Arbery as "out while jogging" in the lead implies that he was doing according to the phrase "out for a jog". Therefore the lead should remove this and related comments and refer to them instead (in more specific terms) in the relevant paragraph. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.168.172.102 ( talk) 00:12, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
why does the article feature a high school foto rather than a more recent mugshot from when Arbery was arrested? Should be changed! https://cf-images.us-east-1.prod.boltdns.net/v1/static/6009760719001/2eb0ba6d-11dd-475e-b4fd-39de4174412a/866a7bb1-b72d-4b70-9385-5ac7ebae73e8/1280x720/match/image.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.125.224.20 ( talk) 13:47, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
It's dishonest to use an old picture which does not reflect his criminal tendencies.
See https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-54055954
Can we add this in the reaction section -- Eatcha 19:23, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
His condition is documented and relavent.
-- Bojackh ( talk) 20:20, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
the character of the victim is neither relevant nor admissible in a murder trial. As this article is not a biography of Arbery, I believe that's sufficient discussion of the issue.
The AJC said he had a specific condition and that it manifested in ways that match the description of his behavior- please quote the specific passage of the source you believe supports this claim. NorthBySouthBaranof ( talk) 21:08, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
had a specific condition and that it manifested in ways that match the description of his behaviorrelevant to his killing.
A good analysis of events that led to Ahmaud Arbery killing and subsequent events as of this writing is available at The Case of Ahmaud Arbery. The user who post the YouTube videos under the name Audit the Audit analyzes bodycam footage and other public information, and then provides legal commentary with appropriate citations.
For The Case of Ahmaud Arbery it details Arbery's past contacts with law enforcement, crime problems at the house being built, 911 calls, background on the father, background on the son, and the political gerrymandering that occurred after the killing.
Information from the video may help with this article.
Jeffrey Walton ( talk) 09:15, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
It looks like this piece already touches on many of the points the defence has tried to raise and the judge has rejected - Arbery's felony record for theft, felony record for unlawful gun possession on school grounds, his being on probation when shot, and his non-compliance with prescribed medication, but it fails to note that (Redacted) 人族 ( talk) 08:37, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
I disagree with the idea that we should be including opinionated quotes about a criminal case from uninvolved lawyers, and have removed them; this is particularly because the quote implies criminality in the actions of a man who was shot and killed by two people now on trial for murder, a man whose actions are - as the judge in the case has noted - not on trial here, and never will be on trial, because those two men killed him. Just because Arbery is dead does not permit us to offer uneducated speculation or accusations about his actions. BDP clearly applies here. Sorry that you don't get to smear a dead man. NorthBySouthBaranof ( talk) 21:20, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
NorthBySouthBaranof I disagree. Your initial objection was to "puffery". If other quotes need to be added from the AJC article, so be it; however, the unique perspective of attorney Sadow should be included in full as he is a recognized Georgia criminal attorney, and as a NPOV matter for the section. The section is "Reactions" with subsection including "commentators, and the public" and includes the statement of the uninvolved former attorney David A. French. I don't believe that the Atlanta Jornal-Constitution and its writer would have published all the Sadow quotes if they didn't find them useful and compelling, or thought them unfairly prejudicial. In any event, for NPOV other expert viewpoints are necessary and give the reader differing perspectives. Although prior criminal convictions have been thus far excluded by the judge, acts during the time in question are still open or there would not be a trial. What you are stating is a prejudgement, which an editor should not represent. The Sadow op-ed entry was previously reviewed and left as is by an administrator, excepting only removal of blockquote indents. Except for one part of the quotes with which you now personally disagree, you left the entry. The point is to reflect differing perspectives on an important set of occurances; there must be balance, regardless of our personal viewpoints. For those previously unaware, the now debated edit is:
In summary, the debated content reflects NPOV as including an expert's apparently unique perspective regarding which a reader should not be deprived. Quaerens-veritatem ( talk) 23:40, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
References
{{
cite news}}
: |archive-date=
/ |archive-url=
timestamp mismatch; 16 October 2021 suggested (
help)
Specifically the wiki speaks of him not having drugs in his system (autopsy section). This is not accurate. He did have Marijuana in his system. (That will not be introduced in court as it's irrelevant and the murderers had no idea it was in his system.) But to say specifically he did NOT is wrong. We could strike it or make it accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pvtpotter ( talk • contribs) 13:35, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
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Under this section, Waycross Judicial Circuit District Attorney, you changed Jackie Johnson's last name to Jackson. Please correct this it's very confusing 2600:1700:E901:6390:5CD7:6229:6E78:216C ( talk) 12:54, 5 November 2021 (UTC)Lisa S
I know it's semi-protected, but could someone put a link to a picture of the running shoes? Here's a link to a video of the white Nikes that Arbery was wearing at the time, per the coroner.
Eric Fraker ( talk) 18:07, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
Because a claim is mentioned in the article that he was wearing 'Timberland boots' and the claim is denied without citation. I think some citation should be added to the denial. I'm referring to this line: "According to an analyst from the Middle East Media Research Institute they claimed Arbery was wielding a hammer and wearing Timberland boots when he was shot dead; Arbery was wearing running shoes." Eric Fraker ( talk) 22:20, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
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Change "he was wearing running shoes" at the end to "he was barefooted" as this has been confirmed by both the defense and prosecution today at trial. 2601:283:4880:B4E0:CC2B:F2C2:5BC9:659C ( talk) 20:43, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
Verdicts just returned, page move should proceed. Enwebb ( talk) 18:52, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
If they are found guilty change this to Murder of Ahmaud Arbery-- Fruitloop11 ( talk) 03:23, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
The defence entered documentation citing specific examples of where Ahmaud Arbery had previously used jogging as a cover for petty crime: https://www.glynncounty.org/DocumentCenter/View/69162/114-Notice-of-Intent
The court ruled this inadmissible as the McMichaels did not necessarily know this at the time of the incident, but it is surely important to the reader's picture of the case.
Suggested edits:
Ahmaud Marquez Arbery, aged 25,[42] lifelong resident of Brunswick, nicknamed "Maud" or "Quez", graduated from Brunswick High School in 2012 where he had been on the football team.[43] He attended South Georgia Technical College during fall 2012 and spring 2013 to train for a career as an electrician.[43][44][45] Family and friends said he frequently jogged for exercise in and around his neighborhood.[42] The defence attempted to introduce evidence of Arbery's repeated history of using jogging as a cover for petty crime, but the court judged this inadmissible as the McMichaels were not aware of these at the time. LINK: https://www.glynncounty.org/DocumentCenter/View/69162/114-Notice-of-Intent --- — Preceding unsigned comment added by StephenKiely ( talk • contribs) 11:10, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
The article currently reads:
Additional evidence was presented by the prosecutor to support the murder charges, including a statement to the GBI by William Bryan that Travis McMichael said "f---ing n---er" as Arbery lay dying. [1] Seeing as Wikipedia is not censored, and the source does not contain the quote “Travis McMichael said "f---ing n---er"” either in a redcated or unredacted form, how should the sentence beginning Additional evidence was presented by the prosecutor read? 2601:1C0:5382:250:71F6:778A:2579:1404 ( talk) 19:36, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
References
“Mr. Bryan said that after the shooting took place before police arrival, while Mr. Arbery was on the ground, that he heard Travis McMichael make the statement: fucking nigger,” Dial said in testimony.starship .paint ( exalt) 02:03, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
How come there is no section on Arbery's personal details? I was hoping to find some more background on the victim via the wikipedia article but there seems to be none? Is that intentional? There are newspaper articles that give such information but I thought I would find it here first. 78.18.245.212 ( talk) 19:35, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
It seems strange not to have any section on background/main bio details of the victim, and probably the accused(s)? It is already a detailed article, but in my experience, most of these kinds of articles do provide the core background details? 78.18.245.212 ( talk) 17:20, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
I've cleaned up and revised the biography section of Arbery. I've cited recent news sources, which are also archived, for anyone who wants to learn more. Neurogeek ( talk) 10:49, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
The article is beating around the bush. For someone who doesn't already know the case, what is the big deal about Ahmaud Arbery? Like why is it a national story?
Intro should be something like, "The case is notable for the amount of fear of a racist trial outcome, a fear founded in the fact that the McMichaels were not arrested until 74 days after the killing. The case is also notable for leading to the repeal of Georgia's flawed citizen's arrest law." But no, we only see the main point at the end with Jon Ossoff's comment. Say what needs to be said, up front!
In the aftermath of the killing, Georgia enacted hate crimes legislation in June 2020, then repealed and replaced its citizen's arrest law in May 2021to the lede, but I'm unaware of historic civil rights mobilization necessary for prosecution occuring. starship .paint ( exalt) 05:31, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
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For reference 193, the link is incorrect. It links to an article from the Guardian rather than to USA Today. Change the link from “ https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/24/ahmaud-arbery-murder-georgia-reaction” to “ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/11/24/what-malice-murder-charges-murder-ahmaud-arbery-explained/8747459002/” so that it matches what is referenced. 2601:249:1580:A640:4DFB:E185:6044:F997 ( talk) 08:31, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
Is use of this term an ENGVAR thing? I’m from the northeast and have never heard of a cellphone referred to as such, but maybe it’s more common around the area the murder happened. Took me a couple of rereadings to understand what was meant by the term. If maybe a more common term isn’t substituted in, maybe link the first usage of it to clear up any confusion? Just spitballing here. GhostStalker( Got a present for ya! | Mission Log) 21:01, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
Grammar issue, please fix. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.155.115.190 ( talk) 03:14, 30 November 2021 (UTC)
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The result of the move request was: moved as proposed. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Mdaniels5757 ( talk) 02:15, 29 June 2020 (UTC)
Shooting of Ahmaud Arbery → Killing of Ahmaud Arbery – I believe this article should be reconsidered for the title change. Please reconsider this based at least in part on the proposed flowchart to the right for article titles which makes perfect sense. It will be reasonable for consistency. When person a dies as a result of human action, regardless of intent or criminal responsibility, it is a killing. Google Dictionary (kill): verb: cause the death of (a person, animal, or other living thing) "her father was killed in a car crash"; noun: an act of killing, especially of one animal by another. Dictionary.com: to deprive of life in any manner; cause the death of. MacMillan Dictionary: to make a person or other living thing die. Collins Dictionary: to cause the death of (a person or animal). "More than 1,000 people have been killed by the armed forces; The earthquake killed 62 people; Heroin can kill". The medical examiner has ruled homicide. Also note: the title of the article, Killing of Rayshard Brooks. "Shooting" is not the best title word because many shootings are not fatal. It is better to be precise. If we want to be more descriptive, we could title it the "Shooting and Killing of Ahmaud Arbery", but this is too wordy; "Killing" is the best fit. We have to deal with reality: Ahmaud Arbery was killed by a gun. We must not downplay the seriousness of the matter by the mere title "Shooting". Quaerens-veritatem ( talk) 08:43, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
"We must not downplay the seriousness of the matter"that this is more a matter of WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS than of WP:TITLES policy. -- Netoholic @ 11:24, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
Any killing is more serious compared to a shootingand I believe a title should reflect this. Accuracy is important. Inversely, perhaps your being wed to "shooting" is a wish to downplay the event? Let's try to avoid WP:USTHEM Quaerens-veritatem ( talk) 11:38, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
unjustifiable/wrongful death. "Killing" implies untimely death at the hands of someone, which is exactly what this situation entails. "Murder" implies unjustifiable/wrongful. Clearly Arbery was killed, as he should still be alive. He wasn't merely "shot" as it is useful to clarify in the page title that he did not survive the shooting, improving precision. – Muboshgu ( talk) 19:38, 21 June 2020 (UTC)
The act or action of causing death, as of a person.
the act of one that kills(" kills" defined as
to deprive of life : cause the death of)
the act of a person or thing that kill(" kill" defined as
to deprive of life in any manner; cause the death of; slay.)
an act of killing somebody deliberately
an occasion when a person is murdered
A killing is an act of deliberately killing a personLevivich dubious – discuss 20:42, 28 June 2020 (UTC)
(1) Counts: I don't understand why there are 4 counts of felony murder. We have 3 defendants. Is one of them charged with two counts? Why? I also don't understand why there are only 2 counts of aggravated assault and not 3 counts (autopsy says Arbery was hit by all 3 shots fired).
(2) Prosecution of the McMichaels and Bryan: It says "The investigator testified that none of the three had called 9-1-1". I understand this as meaning that Arbery wasn't reported to the police before the shooting and that no 911 calls were made by any of the defendants until after the shooting. This is demonstrably false. The police were called around the time when the McMichaels started the chase and were on their way while the chase was happening. As the article states correctly, they arrive right after the shooting so they have to have been called several minutes before. Second, Greg McMichael was on the phone with the police while the shooting happened. Several 911 calls have been published in connection with the shooting. I think the article should reflect that.
Chaptagai ( talk) 22:30, 18 July 2020 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The "jogging" claim was spurious from the beginning and remains so as we have video showing Arbery took off sprinting from the house he was in when people saw him in it. If the court later determines that he wasn't "jogging" this page must reflect so.
MWise12 (
talk) 16:30, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
The user who began this thread had been blocked as a sockpuppet.
Neutrality
talk 22:00, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
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The lead needs to make these three things clear; 1) Arbery was pursued. 2) While being pursued, the McMichaels got out of their vehicles and there was a confrontation. 3) This confrontation is when the shooting happened. The current wording of events in the lead makes it sound as if Arbery was shot in the back, or in a driveby, when that is not what happened. MWise12 ( talk) 16:58, 27 August 2020 (UTC)
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He was recorded breaking into a construction site. 72.183.184.103 ( talk) 19:59, 29 July 2020 (UTC)
In 1985 in Tennessee v. Garner,the Supreme Court struck down a Tennessee statute that allowed a police officer to “use all the necessary means to effect the arrest" of an individual whom the officer suspected was fleeing or forcibly resisting detention. The case involved a Memphis police officer who shot and killed a teenager who jumped over a fence at night in the backyard of a house that the officer suspected was burglarized, though the officer was “reasonably sure” the suspect was unarmed. “The use of deadly force to prevent the escape of all felony suspects, whatever the circumstances, is constitutionally unreasonable,” said the 6-3 decision, written by Justice Byron White. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:6000:7A40:9079:18C0:340C:811 ( talk) 00:22, 5 August 2020 (UTC)
The source cited for this statement attributes this act to William Bryan and his truck, not the McMichaels. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:79D0:66E0:6475:3F4:105A:1705 ( talk) 04:24, 30 August 2020 (UTC)
You are invited to join the discussion at
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Moo813 ( talk) 18:26, 11 September 2020 (UTC)
Need to add that they pursued him because Arbery had trespassed at the house. https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/18/us/ahmaud-arbery-surveillance-timeline/index.html
As court proceedings can become quite complicated, it may be helpful to add some short table or overview with the more important RESULTS. I don't mind the details and time stamps, these are fine, but I reason in favour of a table to see a quick overview of what the court found (once the proceedings are done; of course right now this is an open case, so we have to wait, but I mention this in particular because many people are probably interested in what the court will come to determine). 2A02:8388:1602:6D80:715F:7F61:13E7:2FA0 ( talk) 22:06, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
Jogging as a hobby is usually meant to mean running at a low or medium pace for the purpose of increasing physical fitness. It is true that when he came into confrontation with the suspects mentioned in the article he was "jogging" as in running a medium pace but there is no evidence that his running at the time was part of a recreational pursuit in and of its own. To describe Arbery as "out while jogging" in the lead implies that he was doing according to the phrase "out for a jog". Therefore the lead should remove this and related comments and refer to them instead (in more specific terms) in the relevant paragraph. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.168.172.102 ( talk) 00:12, 25 December 2020 (UTC)
why does the article feature a high school foto rather than a more recent mugshot from when Arbery was arrested? Should be changed! https://cf-images.us-east-1.prod.boltdns.net/v1/static/6009760719001/2eb0ba6d-11dd-475e-b4fd-39de4174412a/866a7bb1-b72d-4b70-9385-5ac7ebae73e8/1280x720/match/image.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 185.125.224.20 ( talk) 13:47, 19 April 2021 (UTC)
It's dishonest to use an old picture which does not reflect his criminal tendencies.
See https://www.bbc.com/news/newsbeat-54055954
Can we add this in the reaction section -- Eatcha 19:23, 25 January 2021 (UTC)
His condition is documented and relavent.
-- Bojackh ( talk) 20:20, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
the character of the victim is neither relevant nor admissible in a murder trial. As this article is not a biography of Arbery, I believe that's sufficient discussion of the issue.
The AJC said he had a specific condition and that it manifested in ways that match the description of his behavior- please quote the specific passage of the source you believe supports this claim. NorthBySouthBaranof ( talk) 21:08, 2 September 2021 (UTC)
had a specific condition and that it manifested in ways that match the description of his behaviorrelevant to his killing.
A good analysis of events that led to Ahmaud Arbery killing and subsequent events as of this writing is available at The Case of Ahmaud Arbery. The user who post the YouTube videos under the name Audit the Audit analyzes bodycam footage and other public information, and then provides legal commentary with appropriate citations.
For The Case of Ahmaud Arbery it details Arbery's past contacts with law enforcement, crime problems at the house being built, 911 calls, background on the father, background on the son, and the political gerrymandering that occurred after the killing.
Information from the video may help with this article.
Jeffrey Walton ( talk) 09:15, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
It looks like this piece already touches on many of the points the defence has tried to raise and the judge has rejected - Arbery's felony record for theft, felony record for unlawful gun possession on school grounds, his being on probation when shot, and his non-compliance with prescribed medication, but it fails to note that (Redacted) 人族 ( talk) 08:37, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
I disagree with the idea that we should be including opinionated quotes about a criminal case from uninvolved lawyers, and have removed them; this is particularly because the quote implies criminality in the actions of a man who was shot and killed by two people now on trial for murder, a man whose actions are - as the judge in the case has noted - not on trial here, and never will be on trial, because those two men killed him. Just because Arbery is dead does not permit us to offer uneducated speculation or accusations about his actions. BDP clearly applies here. Sorry that you don't get to smear a dead man. NorthBySouthBaranof ( talk) 21:20, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
NorthBySouthBaranof I disagree. Your initial objection was to "puffery". If other quotes need to be added from the AJC article, so be it; however, the unique perspective of attorney Sadow should be included in full as he is a recognized Georgia criminal attorney, and as a NPOV matter for the section. The section is "Reactions" with subsection including "commentators, and the public" and includes the statement of the uninvolved former attorney David A. French. I don't believe that the Atlanta Jornal-Constitution and its writer would have published all the Sadow quotes if they didn't find them useful and compelling, or thought them unfairly prejudicial. In any event, for NPOV other expert viewpoints are necessary and give the reader differing perspectives. Although prior criminal convictions have been thus far excluded by the judge, acts during the time in question are still open or there would not be a trial. What you are stating is a prejudgement, which an editor should not represent. The Sadow op-ed entry was previously reviewed and left as is by an administrator, excepting only removal of blockquote indents. Except for one part of the quotes with which you now personally disagree, you left the entry. The point is to reflect differing perspectives on an important set of occurances; there must be balance, regardless of our personal viewpoints. For those previously unaware, the now debated edit is:
In summary, the debated content reflects NPOV as including an expert's apparently unique perspective regarding which a reader should not be deprived. Quaerens-veritatem ( talk) 23:40, 18 October 2021 (UTC)
References
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Specifically the wiki speaks of him not having drugs in his system (autopsy section). This is not accurate. He did have Marijuana in his system. (That will not be introduced in court as it's irrelevant and the murderers had no idea it was in his system.) But to say specifically he did NOT is wrong. We could strike it or make it accurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pvtpotter ( talk • contribs) 13:35, 5 November 2021 (UTC)
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Under this section, Waycross Judicial Circuit District Attorney, you changed Jackie Johnson's last name to Jackson. Please correct this it's very confusing 2600:1700:E901:6390:5CD7:6229:6E78:216C ( talk) 12:54, 5 November 2021 (UTC)Lisa S
I know it's semi-protected, but could someone put a link to a picture of the running shoes? Here's a link to a video of the white Nikes that Arbery was wearing at the time, per the coroner.
Eric Fraker ( talk) 18:07, 18 November 2021 (UTC)
Because a claim is mentioned in the article that he was wearing 'Timberland boots' and the claim is denied without citation. I think some citation should be added to the denial. I'm referring to this line: "According to an analyst from the Middle East Media Research Institute they claimed Arbery was wielding a hammer and wearing Timberland boots when he was shot dead; Arbery was wearing running shoes." Eric Fraker ( talk) 22:20, 19 November 2021 (UTC)
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Change "he was wearing running shoes" at the end to "he was barefooted" as this has been confirmed by both the defense and prosecution today at trial. 2601:283:4880:B4E0:CC2B:F2C2:5BC9:659C ( talk) 20:43, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
Verdicts just returned, page move should proceed. Enwebb ( talk) 18:52, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
If they are found guilty change this to Murder of Ahmaud Arbery-- Fruitloop11 ( talk) 03:23, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
The defence entered documentation citing specific examples of where Ahmaud Arbery had previously used jogging as a cover for petty crime: https://www.glynncounty.org/DocumentCenter/View/69162/114-Notice-of-Intent
The court ruled this inadmissible as the McMichaels did not necessarily know this at the time of the incident, but it is surely important to the reader's picture of the case.
Suggested edits:
Ahmaud Marquez Arbery, aged 25,[42] lifelong resident of Brunswick, nicknamed "Maud" or "Quez", graduated from Brunswick High School in 2012 where he had been on the football team.[43] He attended South Georgia Technical College during fall 2012 and spring 2013 to train for a career as an electrician.[43][44][45] Family and friends said he frequently jogged for exercise in and around his neighborhood.[42] The defence attempted to introduce evidence of Arbery's repeated history of using jogging as a cover for petty crime, but the court judged this inadmissible as the McMichaels were not aware of these at the time. LINK: https://www.glynncounty.org/DocumentCenter/View/69162/114-Notice-of-Intent --- — Preceding unsigned comment added by StephenKiely ( talk • contribs) 11:10, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
The article currently reads:
Additional evidence was presented by the prosecutor to support the murder charges, including a statement to the GBI by William Bryan that Travis McMichael said "f---ing n---er" as Arbery lay dying. [1] Seeing as Wikipedia is not censored, and the source does not contain the quote “Travis McMichael said "f---ing n---er"” either in a redcated or unredacted form, how should the sentence beginning Additional evidence was presented by the prosecutor read? 2601:1C0:5382:250:71F6:778A:2579:1404 ( talk) 19:36, 25 November 2021 (UTC)
References
“Mr. Bryan said that after the shooting took place before police arrival, while Mr. Arbery was on the ground, that he heard Travis McMichael make the statement: fucking nigger,” Dial said in testimony.starship .paint ( exalt) 02:03, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
How come there is no section on Arbery's personal details? I was hoping to find some more background on the victim via the wikipedia article but there seems to be none? Is that intentional? There are newspaper articles that give such information but I thought I would find it here first. 78.18.245.212 ( talk) 19:35, 23 November 2021 (UTC)
It seems strange not to have any section on background/main bio details of the victim, and probably the accused(s)? It is already a detailed article, but in my experience, most of these kinds of articles do provide the core background details? 78.18.245.212 ( talk) 17:20, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
I've cleaned up and revised the biography section of Arbery. I've cited recent news sources, which are also archived, for anyone who wants to learn more. Neurogeek ( talk) 10:49, 26 November 2021 (UTC)
The article is beating around the bush. For someone who doesn't already know the case, what is the big deal about Ahmaud Arbery? Like why is it a national story?
Intro should be something like, "The case is notable for the amount of fear of a racist trial outcome, a fear founded in the fact that the McMichaels were not arrested until 74 days after the killing. The case is also notable for leading to the repeal of Georgia's flawed citizen's arrest law." But no, we only see the main point at the end with Jon Ossoff's comment. Say what needs to be said, up front!
In the aftermath of the killing, Georgia enacted hate crimes legislation in June 2020, then repealed and replaced its citizen's arrest law in May 2021to the lede, but I'm unaware of historic civil rights mobilization necessary for prosecution occuring. starship .paint ( exalt) 05:31, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
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For reference 193, the link is incorrect. It links to an article from the Guardian rather than to USA Today. Change the link from “ https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/nov/24/ahmaud-arbery-murder-georgia-reaction” to “ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/11/24/what-malice-murder-charges-murder-ahmaud-arbery-explained/8747459002/” so that it matches what is referenced. 2601:249:1580:A640:4DFB:E185:6044:F997 ( talk) 08:31, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
Is use of this term an ENGVAR thing? I’m from the northeast and have never heard of a cellphone referred to as such, but maybe it’s more common around the area the murder happened. Took me a couple of rereadings to understand what was meant by the term. If maybe a more common term isn’t substituted in, maybe link the first usage of it to clear up any confusion? Just spitballing here. GhostStalker( Got a present for ya! | Mission Log) 21:01, 27 November 2021 (UTC)
Grammar issue, please fix. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.155.115.190 ( talk) 03:14, 30 November 2021 (UTC)