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Hey @
Guliolopez, which image do we use? The initial one seemed to me clearer, since it was head-on. Your picture it is more distant, and looks kind of like a field rather than castle. I don't know.
Also, You could find some references in the directories and other publications, like I have...
Orastor (
talk) 14:55, 30 January 2024 (UTC)( Blocked
sockpuppet of
Oatsandcream, see
investigation)
"[obelisk] is in relation to the castle", what do we mean? In relation to it how? Commissioned by one of the castle's owners/occupiers? Built by the same architect/builder? Constructed on the castle's demesne? What? Similarly, when we state that
"Killiney Castle was said to have the best sea and land view in Ireland", who is it who said this? (Per MOS:AWW and WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV, subjective opinions should be attributed to someone. Or, at the very least, a book/work - where it is clear that it's a quote.) Hopefully you can also help address the tags I placed on the phrases
"it seems [he retained possession]"and "
The Vico did not open until 1889". As, absent inline refs, it is not possible to address the clarity issues here. (What is "the Vico"? To whom does "it seem"? I can't, for example, change this to
"according to [census/land/busines/historical records], he retained possession"because no inline ref, identifying the record/source is provided)....
Hi
Orastor. In addition to my questions about the basis for the editorial flourishes above ("it seems"
, "Without a doubt"
, "said to have"
) I'm having problems helping clarify/fix some other issues here. For example:
"In 1870, the accident happened late". What are we talking about here? What accident? Late when? Late in 1870? December 1870? What are we talking about?
"[Warren's] wealth was wasted on unproductive endeavours". What are we talking about here? What endeavours? Failed investments? Big parties? Building follies? Something else? What?
Can you confirm please what sources these passages are based upon? So others can review and help ensure the text matches the source AND still makes sense. Thanks. Guliolopez ( talk) 17:37, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
"A large portion of this wealth was wasted on unproductive endeavors, as a major benefactor of the church"), it is unclear what one thing has to do with the other. What's the connection with "being a benefactor of the church" and "wealth was wasted on unproductive endeavors"? Also, still, what are/were the "unproductive endeavors"?
Orastor is a blocked sockpuppet of the problematic user User:Oatsandcream, who's prone to copyright violations, hoaxes about their family, and occasionally faking images to prove a point or make a joke. I've struck their comments. -- Belbury ( talk) 10:07, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
Should clarify here; according to the history article, Talbots of Malahide had the land for 1 Goshawk in 1218 (known and Rochestown Estate?) because they were Nromans, and the crown granted them land on the borders of the Pale. (What is it?)
In 1740 John Malpas claimed the land to build 3 houses on the hill.
Orastor (
talk) 17:57, 30 January 2024 (UTC)( Blocked
sockpuppet of
Oatsandcream, see
investigation)
the borders of the Pale. (What is it?)". The Pale is The Pale. That part of Ireland (mostly just Dublin and its immediate surrounds) under the control of the English government in the Late Middle Ages. The rest of the country remaining under Hiberno-Norman and/or Gaelic Irish control.
Talbots of Malahide had the land [..] in 1218". They may well have. And one of the sources states as much. But, to confirm, there is zero indication the Talbots built anything on it. In the 13th century or otherwise. The National Monuments Service (NMS) and Record of Monuments and Places (RMP) list no prior structures or evidence of prior archaeological remains nearby. The RMP, in particular, often contains trace evidences of early habitation (from castles and forts down to marked stones, bullauns, wells, enclosures, field systems/boundaries, crop marks, kilns, burnt mounds, shell middens, etc). And there is nothing at all indicated for this site. Nothing. Hence we shouldn't be implying a 13th century origin for this house/building. As there is every indication that it was built in a "green field" site.
Malpas claimed the land to build 3 houses on the hill". As elsewhere, can you confirm please where you're getting this information from? Absent any reliable/verifiable sources, we can't do anything with it...
most obvious error is that [..] photograph". The infobox image came from this Geograph entry. Where the uploader mapped and labelled it as "Fitzpatrick Castle Hotel, Killiney". On review, however, it appears to be a mislabelled/misidentified/mismapped image of Malahide Castle. I have removed it.
a number of glaring errors here". Feel free to point them out specifically. With quotes from the problematic text. As needed. So that other editors can assist with any review/corrections.
much of what appears is a paraphrase of what I have written". In honesty that was my concern. The adding editor appears to have (only very slightly) reworded the text from the killineyhistory.ie website. Which is likely why they could not answer questions about context, background or original sources. As they hadn't read them. And, oddly for an editor contributing on very specific areas of Dublin history, didn't seem to know what the Pale was/is. In honesty, and depending on your input on the "[other] glaring errors" above, and absent other thoughts, I'm inclined to largely excise most of the WP:COPYVIO/ WP:CLOP material. (That said, if you'd like to see the content retained, please consider reviewing the guidelines on "donating" materials/content to Wikipedia.)
4,9,14,19 should be attributed to Michael McShane www.killineyhistory.ie". I will take a look.
"glaring errors"(and CLOP issues)? If not, I'll try and address myself. Mainly (in all honesty) by excising and summarising large tracts of the text? (Which, without your input, might be more aggressive than it otherwise needs to be...) Thanks. Guliolopez ( talk) 16:27, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
Hey @
Guliolopez, which image do we use? The initial one seemed to me clearer, since it was head-on. Your picture it is more distant, and looks kind of like a field rather than castle. I don't know.
Also, You could find some references in the directories and other publications, like I have...
Orastor (
talk) 14:55, 30 January 2024 (UTC)( Blocked
sockpuppet of
Oatsandcream, see
investigation)
"[obelisk] is in relation to the castle", what do we mean? In relation to it how? Commissioned by one of the castle's owners/occupiers? Built by the same architect/builder? Constructed on the castle's demesne? What? Similarly, when we state that
"Killiney Castle was said to have the best sea and land view in Ireland", who is it who said this? (Per MOS:AWW and WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV, subjective opinions should be attributed to someone. Or, at the very least, a book/work - where it is clear that it's a quote.) Hopefully you can also help address the tags I placed on the phrases
"it seems [he retained possession]"and "
The Vico did not open until 1889". As, absent inline refs, it is not possible to address the clarity issues here. (What is "the Vico"? To whom does "it seem"? I can't, for example, change this to
"according to [census/land/busines/historical records], he retained possession"because no inline ref, identifying the record/source is provided)....
Hi
Orastor. In addition to my questions about the basis for the editorial flourishes above ("it seems"
, "Without a doubt"
, "said to have"
) I'm having problems helping clarify/fix some other issues here. For example:
"In 1870, the accident happened late". What are we talking about here? What accident? Late when? Late in 1870? December 1870? What are we talking about?
"[Warren's] wealth was wasted on unproductive endeavours". What are we talking about here? What endeavours? Failed investments? Big parties? Building follies? Something else? What?
Can you confirm please what sources these passages are based upon? So others can review and help ensure the text matches the source AND still makes sense. Thanks. Guliolopez ( talk) 17:37, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
"A large portion of this wealth was wasted on unproductive endeavors, as a major benefactor of the church"), it is unclear what one thing has to do with the other. What's the connection with "being a benefactor of the church" and "wealth was wasted on unproductive endeavors"? Also, still, what are/were the "unproductive endeavors"?
Orastor is a blocked sockpuppet of the problematic user User:Oatsandcream, who's prone to copyright violations, hoaxes about their family, and occasionally faking images to prove a point or make a joke. I've struck their comments. -- Belbury ( talk) 10:07, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
Should clarify here; according to the history article, Talbots of Malahide had the land for 1 Goshawk in 1218 (known and Rochestown Estate?) because they were Nromans, and the crown granted them land on the borders of the Pale. (What is it?)
In 1740 John Malpas claimed the land to build 3 houses on the hill.
Orastor (
talk) 17:57, 30 January 2024 (UTC)( Blocked
sockpuppet of
Oatsandcream, see
investigation)
the borders of the Pale. (What is it?)". The Pale is The Pale. That part of Ireland (mostly just Dublin and its immediate surrounds) under the control of the English government in the Late Middle Ages. The rest of the country remaining under Hiberno-Norman and/or Gaelic Irish control.
Talbots of Malahide had the land [..] in 1218". They may well have. And one of the sources states as much. But, to confirm, there is zero indication the Talbots built anything on it. In the 13th century or otherwise. The National Monuments Service (NMS) and Record of Monuments and Places (RMP) list no prior structures or evidence of prior archaeological remains nearby. The RMP, in particular, often contains trace evidences of early habitation (from castles and forts down to marked stones, bullauns, wells, enclosures, field systems/boundaries, crop marks, kilns, burnt mounds, shell middens, etc). And there is nothing at all indicated for this site. Nothing. Hence we shouldn't be implying a 13th century origin for this house/building. As there is every indication that it was built in a "green field" site.
Malpas claimed the land to build 3 houses on the hill". As elsewhere, can you confirm please where you're getting this information from? Absent any reliable/verifiable sources, we can't do anything with it...
most obvious error is that [..] photograph". The infobox image came from this Geograph entry. Where the uploader mapped and labelled it as "Fitzpatrick Castle Hotel, Killiney". On review, however, it appears to be a mislabelled/misidentified/mismapped image of Malahide Castle. I have removed it.
a number of glaring errors here". Feel free to point them out specifically. With quotes from the problematic text. As needed. So that other editors can assist with any review/corrections.
much of what appears is a paraphrase of what I have written". In honesty that was my concern. The adding editor appears to have (only very slightly) reworded the text from the killineyhistory.ie website. Which is likely why they could not answer questions about context, background or original sources. As they hadn't read them. And, oddly for an editor contributing on very specific areas of Dublin history, didn't seem to know what the Pale was/is. In honesty, and depending on your input on the "[other] glaring errors" above, and absent other thoughts, I'm inclined to largely excise most of the WP:COPYVIO/ WP:CLOP material. (That said, if you'd like to see the content retained, please consider reviewing the guidelines on "donating" materials/content to Wikipedia.)
4,9,14,19 should be attributed to Michael McShane www.killineyhistory.ie". I will take a look.
"glaring errors"(and CLOP issues)? If not, I'll try and address myself. Mainly (in all honesty) by excising and summarising large tracts of the text? (Which, without your input, might be more aggressive than it otherwise needs to be...) Thanks. Guliolopez ( talk) 16:27, 15 February 2024 (UTC)