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It would be nice if someone could provide a recording of this language.
Right now, there is a notice at the end of the numeral section, to wit:
I certainly would not believe that Khanty borrowed this from Russian; but is this really a "coincidence"? This is in disaccord with what I've heard about the Finnish word " sata" for "a houndred". I've heard that this is assumed to be borrowed from some " Satem language", more precisely of the Iranian group (and I just noted that the wiktionary entry claims the same); and is taken as one of the indications for the linguistic forefathers of Finns to have lived in the vicinity of speakers of some language of the Iranian branch of the Aryan languages at some prehistoric time. This would actually make Finnish sata a cognate of Russian sto, not by direct borrowing but by a several thousand years old common descent. In any case, I'd be rather surprised if Uralian linguist expert do not consider Finnish sata and Khanty sot as cognates.
This would make sot and sto cognates, too, wouldn't it; although the similarities of the present-day forms partly would be due to independent but incidently similar simplification of the original satem-language form, probably something similar to
Avestan satəm.
Does anyone who has access to more reliable sources than my vague memories a possibility to check this? JoergenB ( talk) 05:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Follow the wikt link I gave: sata! (I'll try to find out where I read it; but it might be from a book, "Uraliska språk" by Björn Collinder, which I've lent out 20 years ago and haven't got back yet...)- JoergenB ( talk) 17:59, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Several requests:
1) If the three main literary dialects are Kazym, Shuryshkar, and middle-Ob, it would be nice to have some phonological information on these dialects.
2) It would also be useful to map the alphabet with the phonology. For example, what cyrillic characters does the Kazym dialect use, and what are the sounds of these letters?
3) For the examples given in this article, is there mention of which dialect it is?
languagegeek (
talk)
18:16, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Much like with Mansi, Khanty is not a language: it is a dialect continuum of related languages. All sources discussing Khanty from a synchronic perspective focus on a particular dialect (usually a Northern or Eastern one). Khanty as a whole is only ever treated as a historical entity.
It seems to me splitting the information into separate articles on 1) Khanty languages, 2) Northern Khanty, 3) Southern Khanty, 4) Eastern Khanty would be beneficial organizationally.
Compare the splitting of Nenets languages into separate bottom-level articles: Tundra Nenets language and Forest Nenets language. We also have split Komi language into Komi-Zyrian language, Komi-Permyak language and Komi-Yazva language despite that these three are still considered to be in only a dialectal relationship to each other.
Scholarly consensus on if the Khanty varieties comprise dialects or languages regardless does not seem to exist though. I'm aware of a very small number of papers explicitly arguing for a separate languages analysis, as well as a large implicit near-consensus (purely by inertia, without explicit arguments!) in favor of a multi-dialect analysis. We might need to pull a Chinese and describe each subgroup as simply a "variety" and leave discussion on the lang/'lect issues into the main article?
-- Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 14:59, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
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Compared the ‘Latin (1931–1937)’ table and its corresponding ruWiki, there are
Garamond ( talk) 15:46, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
Should probably say or show somewhere, that the alphabet, not even for Kazym dialect, isn't set in stone, or to which everyone agree to. This can be seen between dictionaries and the current Khatny newspaper. One pheud is between ԯ and ԓ that I've noticed myself.
"El with hook has been in use in Khanty since 1990. El with hook and El with descender are considered variants of the same letter in Khanty; their use depends on the particular publisher." [1]
Ewithu ( talk) 18:35, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
In accordance with the split conducted on Wiktionary, and on the Mansi languages article, this section should be split as well. I would appreciate it if someone else could conduct this one, since I did the last. Though as a last resort I can do it. Ewithu ( talk) 15:46, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
The first sentence of the "Syntax" section is as follows: "Both Khanty and Mansi are basically nominative–accusative languages but have innovative morphological ergativity. In an ergative construction, the object is given the same case as the subject of an intransitive verb, and the locative is used for the agent of the transitive verb (as an instrumental)."
It's not obvious to me, a layman reader, why this word is bolded. I was about to treat it as a strange anomaly and unbold it, but it occurred to me that this might be some kind of formal linguistic notation. Is that the case and, if so, is it in line with the MOS to use bold in that way? MOS:BOLD refers to mathematical notation, but this seems a bit different since we're dealing with inline text.
I am pinging @ Twenex: since he appears to be the one who wrote this sentence almost twenty years ago.
Nicknimh ( talk) 23:21, 17 July 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
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It would be nice if someone could provide a recording of this language.
Right now, there is a notice at the end of the numeral section, to wit:
I certainly would not believe that Khanty borrowed this from Russian; but is this really a "coincidence"? This is in disaccord with what I've heard about the Finnish word " sata" for "a houndred". I've heard that this is assumed to be borrowed from some " Satem language", more precisely of the Iranian group (and I just noted that the wiktionary entry claims the same); and is taken as one of the indications for the linguistic forefathers of Finns to have lived in the vicinity of speakers of some language of the Iranian branch of the Aryan languages at some prehistoric time. This would actually make Finnish sata a cognate of Russian sto, not by direct borrowing but by a several thousand years old common descent. In any case, I'd be rather surprised if Uralian linguist expert do not consider Finnish sata and Khanty sot as cognates.
This would make sot and sto cognates, too, wouldn't it; although the similarities of the present-day forms partly would be due to independent but incidently similar simplification of the original satem-language form, probably something similar to
Avestan satəm.
Does anyone who has access to more reliable sources than my vague memories a possibility to check this? JoergenB ( talk) 05:21, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Follow the wikt link I gave: sata! (I'll try to find out where I read it; but it might be from a book, "Uraliska språk" by Björn Collinder, which I've lent out 20 years ago and haven't got back yet...)- JoergenB ( talk) 17:59, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
Several requests:
1) If the three main literary dialects are Kazym, Shuryshkar, and middle-Ob, it would be nice to have some phonological information on these dialects.
2) It would also be useful to map the alphabet with the phonology. For example, what cyrillic characters does the Kazym dialect use, and what are the sounds of these letters?
3) For the examples given in this article, is there mention of which dialect it is?
languagegeek (
talk)
18:16, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
Much like with Mansi, Khanty is not a language: it is a dialect continuum of related languages. All sources discussing Khanty from a synchronic perspective focus on a particular dialect (usually a Northern or Eastern one). Khanty as a whole is only ever treated as a historical entity.
It seems to me splitting the information into separate articles on 1) Khanty languages, 2) Northern Khanty, 3) Southern Khanty, 4) Eastern Khanty would be beneficial organizationally.
Compare the splitting of Nenets languages into separate bottom-level articles: Tundra Nenets language and Forest Nenets language. We also have split Komi language into Komi-Zyrian language, Komi-Permyak language and Komi-Yazva language despite that these three are still considered to be in only a dialectal relationship to each other.
Scholarly consensus on if the Khanty varieties comprise dialects or languages regardless does not seem to exist though. I'm aware of a very small number of papers explicitly arguing for a separate languages analysis, as well as a large implicit near-consensus (purely by inertia, without explicit arguments!) in favor of a multi-dialect analysis. We might need to pull a Chinese and describe each subgroup as simply a "variety" and leave discussion on the lang/'lect issues into the main article?
-- Trɔpʏliʊm • blah 14:59, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Khanty language. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:31, 2 January 2018 (UTC)
Compared the ‘Latin (1931–1937)’ table and its corresponding ruWiki, there are
Garamond ( talk) 15:46, 11 August 2019 (UTC)
Should probably say or show somewhere, that the alphabet, not even for Kazym dialect, isn't set in stone, or to which everyone agree to. This can be seen between dictionaries and the current Khatny newspaper. One pheud is between ԯ and ԓ that I've noticed myself.
"El with hook has been in use in Khanty since 1990. El with hook and El with descender are considered variants of the same letter in Khanty; their use depends on the particular publisher." [1]
Ewithu ( talk) 18:35, 12 December 2023 (UTC)
In accordance with the split conducted on Wiktionary, and on the Mansi languages article, this section should be split as well. I would appreciate it if someone else could conduct this one, since I did the last. Though as a last resort I can do it. Ewithu ( talk) 15:46, 10 July 2024 (UTC)
The first sentence of the "Syntax" section is as follows: "Both Khanty and Mansi are basically nominative–accusative languages but have innovative morphological ergativity. In an ergative construction, the object is given the same case as the subject of an intransitive verb, and the locative is used for the agent of the transitive verb (as an instrumental)."
It's not obvious to me, a layman reader, why this word is bolded. I was about to treat it as a strange anomaly and unbold it, but it occurred to me that this might be some kind of formal linguistic notation. Is that the case and, if so, is it in line with the MOS to use bold in that way? MOS:BOLD refers to mathematical notation, but this seems a bit different since we're dealing with inline text.
I am pinging @ Twenex: since he appears to be the one who wrote this sentence almost twenty years ago.
Nicknimh ( talk) 23:21, 17 July 2024 (UTC)