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"The word is believed to be a derivation of Kohen, the Hebrew word for high priest, or some say Khagan (though that apparently means 'khan of khans'). It was known in Europe since the 13th century, when Mongol hordes overran Eastern and Central Europe, e.g. Latin chanis, Greek kanes, Old French chan, Jewish "Cohen," recorded in English circa 1400. The Hebrew origin of the word is attributed to the Assyrian conquest and expulsion of the Israelites in 722 B.C.E. to what is today Afghanistan, with the Pashtuns (or "Pathans") being their genetic descendants. The term made its way East from there." First off, the second sentence doesn't make sense. Secondly, proposing a Hebrew origin of a word used by north central asian nomads is a little absurd. The claim that the Pashtuns are the "genetic descendants" is not only irrelevant to the article, it's also likely wrong, as I've read no paper on population genetics that supports this-- I'll be convinced otherwise if the author can provide an academic source for these claims. In anycase, provide SOURCES. D.E. Cottrell 21:12, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
_____
I don't understand this paragraph:
"This title was probably first used by Rouran; maybe the Xianbei used it earlier. At that time it was pronounced Khaghan. The gh sound later weakened and disappeared becoming Khaan in Modern Mongolian. The Secret History of the Mongols clearly distinguishes Khaghan and Khan: only Genghis and his descendants are called Khaghan ("Khan of Khans"); other rulers are referred to as Khan."
So Khan was pronounced Khaghan. It later became Khaan. So they are the same thing. But Khagan and Khan are distinct: Khagan is for Genghis Khan and his descendants; Khan is for other rulers. So the terms Khaghan and Khan coexisted or not? This unsigned query was posted on 17:18, 14 September 2004 by user:Euyyn
<Any ideas about the Khans serving the Madras Regiment of the British India Army. Were they called Madrasi Pathans? Were they descendents from Afghanistan? Any inputs? This unsigned query was posted on 14:52, 7 April 2005 by user:Manzoorkhan
(1) Answer to question number 1. Yes. Khaghan and Khan did coexist. They both are different words. Khaghan later evolved into Kha'an (Two syllable word. It is pronounced as Kha An), and is commonly written as Khaan. On the other hand Khan is a single syllable word. So, Khaan and Khan are two different words.
(2) Answer to question number 2. Highly unlikely. Khan is used indiscriminately as a surname among Indian Muslims. Just using Khan does not mean one is descended from Afghans. This unsigned comment was posted on 22:11, 29 September 2005 by user:Khakhan
Why are there no references to tracing the origin of "Khan" to Hebrew origin? As the poster above said, this sounds like some unproven theory. Are you Westerners that confused because "Khan" resembles 'Cohen' or 'Kahn' or other versions of Hebrew names??? The Khans of Central and South Asia have more of a CLEARLY ESTABLISHED link to Mongols and Turks, than Hebrews. Unless the current Hebrew tribes are of Turkish/Mongol origin, which is also an unproven theory. 'This unsigned comment was posted on 07:19, 7 September 2006 by user:24.130.77.100
The disambiguation text at the very top says, "Khan" and "Khanate" redirect here. But this is the "Khan" article (that's the title!) so of course "Khan" redirects here. I'll remove "Khan" from it. Comrade 4· 2 04:17, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Agh, never mind, there's some weird template I've got to mess around with, and I'm not going to bother with it.
I would have thought that the existence of the name "Khan" in pop culture would be mentioned in this article (due to the huge influence of Star Trek on western society). I know I myself traveled to Wikipedia hoping to find information on the Star Trek Khan, but there was none to be had. 24.84.119.214 15:30, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Jadoon is a Pashtun tribe, but where their dynasty were, or that had been existing somewhere? What we have heard and read about few of the dynasties like Khilji dynasty, Lodhi dynasty, Swati dynasty and few more amongst pashtuns. Take care. Haider 22:01, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
An alternative theory to the Mongol origin for this term in South Asia is that it could possibly have come to this area with the invasion of Northern Persia, Afghanistan and Gandhara, in Northern India, by the Epthalite Huns lasting from circa 450 to 550 CE. The Epthalites introduced the feudal tenure in Pathan areas, of which fertile Gandhara formed the base. It is believed that this word was the title of Epthalite princes, as it was of all Hunnish and Khazar tribes; and many believe that "KHAN!" is actually the Persian corruption of the word "HUN!" itself. From northwestern India and Persia this name later spread to the rest of the Indian subcontinent, as it was from these regions that Islam got introduced to the Indian subcontinent, whose rulers for almost a millennium were Central Asian Muslims. Reasoning for the theory of Hunnish origin for "Khan" in Pathan culture also lies in the fact that many Pathan "Khan families" have Hunnish physical features, that can be attributed to the their influence. (Though local legends abound, attributing these to the Greek influence under Alexander who invaded this place, that seems highly improbable, aside from perhaps the Kalash or other regional South Asian tribes that have direct traditions of Greek ancestry dating back to the time period (see: Gill (clan)). Greek features are also not entirely the same as general Central Asian physical features, with prominent differences being the brow and shape of the nose as well as eye and hair color being lighter in indigenous peoples of the region. See the book "The Pathans", by Sir Olaf Caroe in this regard).
Sir Olaf Caroe, the only source cited here, was apparently [1] a British governor of an Indian province, and his book was published in 1958. He is/was not an expert in history, and the info can't be up to date. Parts of the text sound oddly old-fashioned, especially the discussions of race, and it's hard not to laugh at this statement:
Many believe that "KHAN!" is actually the Persian corruption of the word "HUN!" itself"
-- 91.148.159.4 12:08, 22 May 2007 (UTC) The following part was immediately before the above:
N.B: As far as the Pathan association with the term Khan is concerned, it goes very deep. The word is used by them as a coutesy title for any rural aristocratic landowner, or for tribal and village notables in most areas. It is also the formal social term by which such classes here have styled themselves since time immemorial. Moreover, it forms a suffix to the name of almost 80% of all classes of Pathans, and though it can't be really defined as a surname, many now use it as such.
Seems to come from the same source as the above. The part about "since time immemorial" sounds unprofessional, to say the least, and the text seems to describe realities from fifty years ago or something.-- 91.148.159.4 21:48, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
The Muslim rajput issue is contested as the Khan title was only given, by Mughal, Afghan and Turkic rulers of India, to those Muslim notables who had been deserving of some reward, as did the British later in the form of Khan Bahadur. In the case of Muslim Rajput aristocrats this was to done to take the place of Singh (which was the usual upper class appelation). There are also instances of this happening to Hindu Rajas also. This does not mean that this is either correct or should be accepted for ordinary folk claimimg to be rajput and adding Khan as surname. Taj Mohammed Khan Tanoli, 4 July, 15:58
I removed the following statement from the article: "The Mongolian title of the Qing emperors, Bogd Khan, would later be transmitted to the Russians in late 17th century. [1]" The problem is that it's not made clear (to me, at least) whether the Mongolians began to call the Russian czar 'Bogd Khan', or whether the Russians began to call the Chinese emperor "Bogd Khan". I guess it would be a trivial matter if I spoke Russian, but I don't. Yaan 14:56, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Sorry to go a bit but there is a comment above re: rajputs and their former appelation of Singh.I have read in many places that the true rajputs i.e. those in their real home in Rajputana still have Singh as their last name to denote high status.
It is plausible that the term khan was applied when some of these people, on becoming Muslims decided that Khan was a good name to adopt given that Afghans, Mughals and Turks, as conqurors were also known as Khans. The rajputs of Mewat only have the name khan added to their leaders name and that Khanzada is literal translation of rajput - as Khan is term coming from the west of the subcontinent it should be seen in reality for the those people who came as outsiders and in turn subjugated natives including Gujjars,Jats and Rajputs throughout northwestern and northern India. The vast Indinan subcontinent, Bollywood film industry and also in Bengal (Bangladesh) see Khan as inherently as Afghan and refer to anyone who is considered as such as Khan Sahib.
Let me quote an entry under Khan in Hobson-Jobson: an AngloIndian Dictionary 'Khan.....properly of those claiming Pathan descent.' This is in the Indian context and is not to applied to other regions such as Turkic states in the Central Asian region etc. In northern Iran where those with Turkic heritage predominate the name Khan is also not uncommon. User:Nazar Rabbi 16:53, 27 July 2007
References
I moved the article Khan to Khan (title). Since there are a lot of uses for the word "Khan," it seemed logical to have the article Khan redirect to the page Khan (disambiguation). I hope that's OK with everyone else. — Crazypersonbb 23:00, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Is there a linguistic relationship between Khan and the chinese Wang, as Wang means king in chinese (王), and khan obviously has a similar meaning? This anonymous comment was posted on 18:35, 4 July 2006 by user:131.112.128.230''
I don't suppose there is any connection between the Altaic word and the Chinese ethnicity?-- Adoniscik ( talk) 05:20, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
@ AsadalEditor:, @ Wario-Man: A more detailed Etymology section is needed on the Khagan and Khan pages. While the current section mentions other etymologies in passing, it mainly focuses on the opinions of Alexander Vovin. The etymology of these titles have been discussed by many linguists for many many years, so just focusing on the opinions of one linguist is not accurate. Bozcelik ( talk) 00:02, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
The word Khan (orig.: Ḫān) is of Mongolian origin and was later adopted by other Altaic and Non-Altaic nomads.
The Encyclopaedia Iranica writes:
Grousset writes the same thing:
The word Khatun (orig.: Ḫātun) has a totally different etymology and is of Indo-European origin. It was first used in Sogdian and was brought to the Altaic nomads through the Hephthalites who were also Indo-Europeans. Along with the word Yabghu, Khatun is one of the most important proofs for very early contacts between Indo-European tribes ( Scythians, Massagetes, Tocharians) and Altaic nomads ( Turkic peoples, Mongols, etc).
The Encyclopaedia of Islam writes:
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.83.154.109 ( talk • contribs) 16:14, 2008 February 8 -- Latebird ( talk)
What about the Encyclopedia of Islam article, is that also "crap" just because it disproves your POVs?
Pan-Turkist and Turkish nationalistic users all over Wikipedia claim all empires and all history and all people as Turkish. Several of them are pushing for POVs on this article. One such POV is labeling the Göktürks as a "Turkish Empire".
See the article Göktürks, the are from Central Asia, not Turkey. Admins should watch out for such nationalistic POV pushing on Turkic related articles. Turkish and Turkic are very different meanings.
"Turkish" and "Turkic" are different, the former is a subgroup of the latter, but ultimately these words exists in English only. In Turkish (it's probably the same in other Turkic languages), there is a single word for these two, "Türk", and there is no way to know who it refers to without further explanation.-- Mttll ( talk) 16:06, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Aqthar Jan belongs to one of the famous KHAN family.Hails from the Pathan culture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.164.57.8 ( talk) 11:56, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Someone wrote:
First of all, this is not true, and secondly, you did not add any reference that supports your wild claims.Ghengis Khan died as pagan and he was buried in a pagan manner. To claim that he was Muslim seems to be yet another effort by pan turkish nationalistic elements to paint him modern "turkish", but honestly this is utter bullshit (sorry for the language). If nobody has any objections, I will remove that part. Also I do not see the point why the live of any particular Khan needs to be discussed in such detail. This article should just describe the title "Khan". 95.223.187.171 ( talk) 03:52, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
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@ Dbachmann: Can you explain why you added this merge template to this article? Jarble ( talk) 18:59, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
The titles of Khan and Khagan are seperate and have a different status. While Khan corresponds to king, Khagan rather means emperor, or literally "King of Kings". So no, the articles should not be merged. Regards Akocsg ( talk) 21:14, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
In 2010, a citation-needed tag was placed on the last paragraph about Bulgarian Khans. It is high time that was referenced! 50.111.50.240 ( talk) 06:24, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
Yamate kudasai 103.120.5.194 ( talk) 11:42, 7 March 2023 (UTC)
This is the
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Khan (title) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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"The word is believed to be a derivation of Kohen, the Hebrew word for high priest, or some say Khagan (though that apparently means 'khan of khans'). It was known in Europe since the 13th century, when Mongol hordes overran Eastern and Central Europe, e.g. Latin chanis, Greek kanes, Old French chan, Jewish "Cohen," recorded in English circa 1400. The Hebrew origin of the word is attributed to the Assyrian conquest and expulsion of the Israelites in 722 B.C.E. to what is today Afghanistan, with the Pashtuns (or "Pathans") being their genetic descendants. The term made its way East from there." First off, the second sentence doesn't make sense. Secondly, proposing a Hebrew origin of a word used by north central asian nomads is a little absurd. The claim that the Pashtuns are the "genetic descendants" is not only irrelevant to the article, it's also likely wrong, as I've read no paper on population genetics that supports this-- I'll be convinced otherwise if the author can provide an academic source for these claims. In anycase, provide SOURCES. D.E. Cottrell 21:12, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
_____
I don't understand this paragraph:
"This title was probably first used by Rouran; maybe the Xianbei used it earlier. At that time it was pronounced Khaghan. The gh sound later weakened and disappeared becoming Khaan in Modern Mongolian. The Secret History of the Mongols clearly distinguishes Khaghan and Khan: only Genghis and his descendants are called Khaghan ("Khan of Khans"); other rulers are referred to as Khan."
So Khan was pronounced Khaghan. It later became Khaan. So they are the same thing. But Khagan and Khan are distinct: Khagan is for Genghis Khan and his descendants; Khan is for other rulers. So the terms Khaghan and Khan coexisted or not? This unsigned query was posted on 17:18, 14 September 2004 by user:Euyyn
<Any ideas about the Khans serving the Madras Regiment of the British India Army. Were they called Madrasi Pathans? Were they descendents from Afghanistan? Any inputs? This unsigned query was posted on 14:52, 7 April 2005 by user:Manzoorkhan
(1) Answer to question number 1. Yes. Khaghan and Khan did coexist. They both are different words. Khaghan later evolved into Kha'an (Two syllable word. It is pronounced as Kha An), and is commonly written as Khaan. On the other hand Khan is a single syllable word. So, Khaan and Khan are two different words.
(2) Answer to question number 2. Highly unlikely. Khan is used indiscriminately as a surname among Indian Muslims. Just using Khan does not mean one is descended from Afghans. This unsigned comment was posted on 22:11, 29 September 2005 by user:Khakhan
Why are there no references to tracing the origin of "Khan" to Hebrew origin? As the poster above said, this sounds like some unproven theory. Are you Westerners that confused because "Khan" resembles 'Cohen' or 'Kahn' or other versions of Hebrew names??? The Khans of Central and South Asia have more of a CLEARLY ESTABLISHED link to Mongols and Turks, than Hebrews. Unless the current Hebrew tribes are of Turkish/Mongol origin, which is also an unproven theory. 'This unsigned comment was posted on 07:19, 7 September 2006 by user:24.130.77.100
The disambiguation text at the very top says, "Khan" and "Khanate" redirect here. But this is the "Khan" article (that's the title!) so of course "Khan" redirects here. I'll remove "Khan" from it. Comrade 4· 2 04:17, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
Agh, never mind, there's some weird template I've got to mess around with, and I'm not going to bother with it.
I would have thought that the existence of the name "Khan" in pop culture would be mentioned in this article (due to the huge influence of Star Trek on western society). I know I myself traveled to Wikipedia hoping to find information on the Star Trek Khan, but there was none to be had. 24.84.119.214 15:30, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
Jadoon is a Pashtun tribe, but where their dynasty were, or that had been existing somewhere? What we have heard and read about few of the dynasties like Khilji dynasty, Lodhi dynasty, Swati dynasty and few more amongst pashtuns. Take care. Haider 22:01, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
An alternative theory to the Mongol origin for this term in South Asia is that it could possibly have come to this area with the invasion of Northern Persia, Afghanistan and Gandhara, in Northern India, by the Epthalite Huns lasting from circa 450 to 550 CE. The Epthalites introduced the feudal tenure in Pathan areas, of which fertile Gandhara formed the base. It is believed that this word was the title of Epthalite princes, as it was of all Hunnish and Khazar tribes; and many believe that "KHAN!" is actually the Persian corruption of the word "HUN!" itself. From northwestern India and Persia this name later spread to the rest of the Indian subcontinent, as it was from these regions that Islam got introduced to the Indian subcontinent, whose rulers for almost a millennium were Central Asian Muslims. Reasoning for the theory of Hunnish origin for "Khan" in Pathan culture also lies in the fact that many Pathan "Khan families" have Hunnish physical features, that can be attributed to the their influence. (Though local legends abound, attributing these to the Greek influence under Alexander who invaded this place, that seems highly improbable, aside from perhaps the Kalash or other regional South Asian tribes that have direct traditions of Greek ancestry dating back to the time period (see: Gill (clan)). Greek features are also not entirely the same as general Central Asian physical features, with prominent differences being the brow and shape of the nose as well as eye and hair color being lighter in indigenous peoples of the region. See the book "The Pathans", by Sir Olaf Caroe in this regard).
Sir Olaf Caroe, the only source cited here, was apparently [1] a British governor of an Indian province, and his book was published in 1958. He is/was not an expert in history, and the info can't be up to date. Parts of the text sound oddly old-fashioned, especially the discussions of race, and it's hard not to laugh at this statement:
Many believe that "KHAN!" is actually the Persian corruption of the word "HUN!" itself"
-- 91.148.159.4 12:08, 22 May 2007 (UTC) The following part was immediately before the above:
N.B: As far as the Pathan association with the term Khan is concerned, it goes very deep. The word is used by them as a coutesy title for any rural aristocratic landowner, or for tribal and village notables in most areas. It is also the formal social term by which such classes here have styled themselves since time immemorial. Moreover, it forms a suffix to the name of almost 80% of all classes of Pathans, and though it can't be really defined as a surname, many now use it as such.
Seems to come from the same source as the above. The part about "since time immemorial" sounds unprofessional, to say the least, and the text seems to describe realities from fifty years ago or something.-- 91.148.159.4 21:48, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
The Muslim rajput issue is contested as the Khan title was only given, by Mughal, Afghan and Turkic rulers of India, to those Muslim notables who had been deserving of some reward, as did the British later in the form of Khan Bahadur. In the case of Muslim Rajput aristocrats this was to done to take the place of Singh (which was the usual upper class appelation). There are also instances of this happening to Hindu Rajas also. This does not mean that this is either correct or should be accepted for ordinary folk claimimg to be rajput and adding Khan as surname. Taj Mohammed Khan Tanoli, 4 July, 15:58
I removed the following statement from the article: "The Mongolian title of the Qing emperors, Bogd Khan, would later be transmitted to the Russians in late 17th century. [1]" The problem is that it's not made clear (to me, at least) whether the Mongolians began to call the Russian czar 'Bogd Khan', or whether the Russians began to call the Chinese emperor "Bogd Khan". I guess it would be a trivial matter if I spoke Russian, but I don't. Yaan 14:56, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Sorry to go a bit but there is a comment above re: rajputs and their former appelation of Singh.I have read in many places that the true rajputs i.e. those in their real home in Rajputana still have Singh as their last name to denote high status.
It is plausible that the term khan was applied when some of these people, on becoming Muslims decided that Khan was a good name to adopt given that Afghans, Mughals and Turks, as conqurors were also known as Khans. The rajputs of Mewat only have the name khan added to their leaders name and that Khanzada is literal translation of rajput - as Khan is term coming from the west of the subcontinent it should be seen in reality for the those people who came as outsiders and in turn subjugated natives including Gujjars,Jats and Rajputs throughout northwestern and northern India. The vast Indinan subcontinent, Bollywood film industry and also in Bengal (Bangladesh) see Khan as inherently as Afghan and refer to anyone who is considered as such as Khan Sahib.
Let me quote an entry under Khan in Hobson-Jobson: an AngloIndian Dictionary 'Khan.....properly of those claiming Pathan descent.' This is in the Indian context and is not to applied to other regions such as Turkic states in the Central Asian region etc. In northern Iran where those with Turkic heritage predominate the name Khan is also not uncommon. User:Nazar Rabbi 16:53, 27 July 2007
References
I moved the article Khan to Khan (title). Since there are a lot of uses for the word "Khan," it seemed logical to have the article Khan redirect to the page Khan (disambiguation). I hope that's OK with everyone else. — Crazypersonbb 23:00, 23 October 2007 (UTC)
Is there a linguistic relationship between Khan and the chinese Wang, as Wang means king in chinese (王), and khan obviously has a similar meaning? This anonymous comment was posted on 18:35, 4 July 2006 by user:131.112.128.230''
I don't suppose there is any connection between the Altaic word and the Chinese ethnicity?-- Adoniscik ( talk) 05:20, 2 January 2008 (UTC)
@ AsadalEditor:, @ Wario-Man: A more detailed Etymology section is needed on the Khagan and Khan pages. While the current section mentions other etymologies in passing, it mainly focuses on the opinions of Alexander Vovin. The etymology of these titles have been discussed by many linguists for many many years, so just focusing on the opinions of one linguist is not accurate. Bozcelik ( talk) 00:02, 21 March 2019 (UTC)
The word Khan (orig.: Ḫān) is of Mongolian origin and was later adopted by other Altaic and Non-Altaic nomads.
The Encyclopaedia Iranica writes:
Grousset writes the same thing:
The word Khatun (orig.: Ḫātun) has a totally different etymology and is of Indo-European origin. It was first used in Sogdian and was brought to the Altaic nomads through the Hephthalites who were also Indo-Europeans. Along with the word Yabghu, Khatun is one of the most important proofs for very early contacts between Indo-European tribes ( Scythians, Massagetes, Tocharians) and Altaic nomads ( Turkic peoples, Mongols, etc).
The Encyclopaedia of Islam writes:
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.83.154.109 ( talk • contribs) 16:14, 2008 February 8 -- Latebird ( talk)
What about the Encyclopedia of Islam article, is that also "crap" just because it disproves your POVs?
Pan-Turkist and Turkish nationalistic users all over Wikipedia claim all empires and all history and all people as Turkish. Several of them are pushing for POVs on this article. One such POV is labeling the Göktürks as a "Turkish Empire".
See the article Göktürks, the are from Central Asia, not Turkey. Admins should watch out for such nationalistic POV pushing on Turkic related articles. Turkish and Turkic are very different meanings.
"Turkish" and "Turkic" are different, the former is a subgroup of the latter, but ultimately these words exists in English only. In Turkish (it's probably the same in other Turkic languages), there is a single word for these two, "Türk", and there is no way to know who it refers to without further explanation.-- Mttll ( talk) 16:06, 4 January 2009 (UTC)
Aqthar Jan belongs to one of the famous KHAN family.Hails from the Pathan culture. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.164.57.8 ( talk) 11:56, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
Someone wrote:
First of all, this is not true, and secondly, you did not add any reference that supports your wild claims.Ghengis Khan died as pagan and he was buried in a pagan manner. To claim that he was Muslim seems to be yet another effort by pan turkish nationalistic elements to paint him modern "turkish", but honestly this is utter bullshit (sorry for the language). If nobody has any objections, I will remove that part. Also I do not see the point why the live of any particular Khan needs to be discussed in such detail. This article should just describe the title "Khan". 95.223.187.171 ( talk) 03:52, 26 October 2010 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Khan (title). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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@ Dbachmann: Can you explain why you added this merge template to this article? Jarble ( talk) 18:59, 28 June 2017 (UTC)
The titles of Khan and Khagan are seperate and have a different status. While Khan corresponds to king, Khagan rather means emperor, or literally "King of Kings". So no, the articles should not be merged. Regards Akocsg ( talk) 21:14, 20 October 2017 (UTC)
In 2010, a citation-needed tag was placed on the last paragraph about Bulgarian Khans. It is high time that was referenced! 50.111.50.240 ( talk) 06:24, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
Yamate kudasai 103.120.5.194 ( talk) 11:42, 7 March 2023 (UTC)