This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Khalid al-Mihdhar article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Khalid al-Mihdhar is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on February 8, 2019. | ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
Current status: Featured article |
This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
I'm looking into which Image copyright tag we should be using for these photos. If nothing else, it certainly meets fair use, but maybe {{fairuseunsure}} isn't the correct tag? - Aude ( talk | contribs) 17:17, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
When where these photos released by the FBI? At least the right one is clearly a different person and was released by the media, not the FBI. -- Sloane 16:36, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
"Al Midhar [sic!] flew to Saudi Arabia June 10, 2001, where he organized "muscle" hijackers for 9/11 attacks, returning to U.S. on July 4, 2001." The information above must be wrong. by June 10th 2001, most of the muscle hijackers were already in the U.S. "In June of 2000[other articels claim Mai 10th], al-Mihdhar returned to Yemen...returning to U.S. on July 4, 2001." All the information about the things he did in the U.S. in between is very strange. So where has he been now?
I am comparing the hijackers profiles right now, and I find it funny, how they misfit and contradict each other in many details. A large part of the "facts" is based on speculation. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed spend some time in a CIA torture lab, when he became one of the major sources of the 9/11-commission report. 68.18.91.52
In order to uphold the quality of Wikipedia:Good articles, all articles listed as Good articles are being reviewed against the GA criteria as part of the GA project quality task force. While all the hard work that has gone into this article is appreciated, unfortunately, as of October 1, 2007, this article fails to satisfy the criteria, as detailed below. For that reason, the article has been delisted from WP:GA. However, if improvements are made bringing the article up to standards, the article may be nominated at WP:GAN. If you feel this decision has been made in error, you may seek remediation at WP:GAR.
Ruslik 09:45, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
The reasons:
1) Insufficiant number of citations in the text. Many paragraphs do not have them at all. I marked them with 'fact' tags;
2) The reflist should not look like a collection of weblinks. Refs should have titles, dates of publication, publishers, and authors;
3) Many web refs are dead or forbiden.
Ruslik 09:45, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't see any mention in the article right now, so it's possible I'm mistaken; but I'm pretty sure al-Mihdhar was married; possibly even had a child. I'm just leaving this note so I can either remind myself to dig around for confirmation, or perhaps somebody else can. Sherurcij ( speaker for the dead) 07:09, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
The part about Mihdhar living with the informant is based on a marginal source, which only gives passing mention about Mihdhar and the informant. More solid sources are needed. Mihdhar left the U.S. in June, so it's also dubious, unsourced, with weasel words to say that "Al-Mihdhar is believed to have left the apartment in early October." -- Aude ( talk) 08:39, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
The part of the article discussing Mihdhar's selection for the plot should be a concise explanation of what the Malaysia meetings were about, within the timeline of events. I don't think that section should delve into discussion of intelligence on Mihdhar and the intelligence failure. Since these pieces of intelligence came together and the failure apparent after the 9/11 attacks, it really fits in the aftermath section and can be expanded upon there. -- Aude ( talk) 08:58, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
TIME says it was a Camry, not a Corolla [1] Sherurcij ( speaker for the dead) 00:18, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
A couple missing points that should be added before it gets promoted, first his connection to the Islamic Army of Aden, we'd be well-served to upgrade to the better government exhibit photo of http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/profiles/images/khalid_al-mihdhar_2.jpg, and it seems http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/profiles/images/khalid_al-mihdhar_3.jpg was also entered into exhibits at Moussaoui's trial. Sherurcij ( speaker for the dead) 20:59, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
I can find sources for May 5 and May 16, I cannot find any source alleging April 20th (currently in our infobox) - as this birthday would be shared with Adolf Hitler, the Columbine Massacre and "4:20" (a euphemism for marijuana), it seems at least possible this was unnoticed vandalism. Sherurcij ( speaker for the dead) 21:30, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
I went through the article twice and cleaned up grammar, spelling, wikilinks, etc. It needs more work to reach FA status, however. I inserted inline tags accompanied by questions in hidden comments next to things needing clarification, years, citations and page numbers. There are a lot of sources needing page numbers because they are PDFs, some of which are more than 100 pages.
These are the other things that need to be worked on:
Lead: I see that his birth date has been discussed before. It is currently listed as May 5/16, 1975, which is confusing, especially because the infobox lists it as May 16. I agree with Aude in using the birth date given by the majority of sources.
The lead provides information not found in the article. It should be a summary of info from the article; however, if it's going to be left as is, the additional information (such as him fighting with the mujahideen in Bosnia) needs citations.
Background: While this section mentions that he was involved with al-Qaeda through various family members, its not clear as to how he became involved in the "planes operation" (which also needs further explanation) and why Bin Laden chose him for the attacks plot.
Sources: I highly suggest using WebCite to archive all of the non-PDF web sources, especially because the article has a history of dead links.
The source URL given for his seat location and number is a page where you have to download a ZIP file to access the cited info. Try to find a more accessible source.
General items:
-- momoricks talk 13:05, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
My apologies, I should have been more clear when using this as an example. The mujahideen mention should be moved to the Background section, as the article is where the specifics should be given. momoricks talk 00:12, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
I have to apologize again. Sometimes electronic communication is unclear. I reworded the first few sentences of the Background section to say what I was trying to convey. Please let me know if I messed up anything. Thanks, momoricks talk 02:11, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
I don't think their frugality is especially notable; however, the other information is and should be added to the article. Without it the two mentions of the car don't make sense. momoricks talk 00:12, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Kudos, this looks good. momoricks talk 00:12, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
I forgot to mention this in my previous note. Al-Qaeda needs to be consistent in the article. It is usually spelled al-Qaeda in the article but there a several instances in which it is spelled Al-Qaeda. momoricks talk 21:25, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 26 external links on Khalid al-Mihdhar. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 06:51, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Khalid al-Mihdhar. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:13, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
Al-Mihdhar was born on May 16, 1975, in Mecca, Saudi Arabia to a prominent family, related to the Quraysh tribe of Mecca.
If it’s prominent, why the name of the family is not provided? If it’s prominent because of relations with the Quraysh, aren’t there countless of families with Quraysh lineage in Arabia? What makes it prominent if so (plus how do you assess if it’s actually related?)? JahlilMA ( talk) 05:55, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
seems like some poor taste to make this dude appear on the front page of wikipedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8806:6000:85:31C3:5FFE:E18:1A7C ( talk) 15:29, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
It IS in poor taste. Might as well add "In Memory of". It's sickening to put it on the front page, but not shocking coming from Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:807D:220:21B:63FF:FE39:C32D ( talk) 16:27, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
It seems like giving criminals free publicity like this (especially when his crime is no longer in the news, and not directly relevant to current news) is almost celebrating him. It's imaginable that it could encourage more people to do such crimes, telling them that if they are successful in their attempt to kill thousands of people, they will even taunt people years after their death on the front page of Wikipedia. I can also imagine it being insensitive and offensive to family members of those who died in 9/11. Gjetost ( talk) 16:38, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Yes, agree with the above 3 posts. North8000 ( talk) 17:31, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Mass murderers should not be glorified with front page featured article status. This could easily be seen as supportign terrorism by idiots, and it is inappropriate to do anything that can be seen as supporting terrorism, especially since Wikipedia is trying to be a serious website. 82.10.141.252 ( talk) 20:08, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
The Infobox has an entry for "Occupation", and Khalid al-Mihdhar's occupation is given as "Terrorist." An occupation is usually defined as a full-time job where someone earns money on a weekly or steady basis. I have never heard of anyone earning a living as terrorist. A terrorist is a violent criminal who kills people and/or destroys property, not someone who is in the labor force and contributing to the Gross National Product. I really don't think that the 9/11 hijackers were contributing to the economy. The entry "Occupation" should be deleted from the Infobox. Anthony22 ( talk) 18:00, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
All Middle Eastern countries have that dating format. It's part of Western Asia and since he originated from an Arabic speaking country, it should be changed into DMY format both DOB and death like this: b. 16 May 1975-d. 11 September 2001.
Goodbye,
67.81.163.178 ( talk) 16:23, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Khalid al-Mihdhar article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Khalid al-Mihdhar is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so. | ||||||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on February 8, 2019. | ||||||||||||||||
| ||||||||||||||||
Current status: Featured article |
This article is rated FA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
I'm looking into which Image copyright tag we should be using for these photos. If nothing else, it certainly meets fair use, but maybe {{fairuseunsure}} isn't the correct tag? - Aude ( talk | contribs) 17:17, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
When where these photos released by the FBI? At least the right one is clearly a different person and was released by the media, not the FBI. -- Sloane 16:36, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
"Al Midhar [sic!] flew to Saudi Arabia June 10, 2001, where he organized "muscle" hijackers for 9/11 attacks, returning to U.S. on July 4, 2001." The information above must be wrong. by June 10th 2001, most of the muscle hijackers were already in the U.S. "In June of 2000[other articels claim Mai 10th], al-Mihdhar returned to Yemen...returning to U.S. on July 4, 2001." All the information about the things he did in the U.S. in between is very strange. So where has he been now?
I am comparing the hijackers profiles right now, and I find it funny, how they misfit and contradict each other in many details. A large part of the "facts" is based on speculation. Khalid Sheikh Mohammed spend some time in a CIA torture lab, when he became one of the major sources of the 9/11-commission report. 68.18.91.52
In order to uphold the quality of Wikipedia:Good articles, all articles listed as Good articles are being reviewed against the GA criteria as part of the GA project quality task force. While all the hard work that has gone into this article is appreciated, unfortunately, as of October 1, 2007, this article fails to satisfy the criteria, as detailed below. For that reason, the article has been delisted from WP:GA. However, if improvements are made bringing the article up to standards, the article may be nominated at WP:GAN. If you feel this decision has been made in error, you may seek remediation at WP:GAR.
Ruslik 09:45, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
The reasons:
1) Insufficiant number of citations in the text. Many paragraphs do not have them at all. I marked them with 'fact' tags;
2) The reflist should not look like a collection of weblinks. Refs should have titles, dates of publication, publishers, and authors;
3) Many web refs are dead or forbiden.
Ruslik 09:45, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
I don't see any mention in the article right now, so it's possible I'm mistaken; but I'm pretty sure al-Mihdhar was married; possibly even had a child. I'm just leaving this note so I can either remind myself to dig around for confirmation, or perhaps somebody else can. Sherurcij ( speaker for the dead) 07:09, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
The part about Mihdhar living with the informant is based on a marginal source, which only gives passing mention about Mihdhar and the informant. More solid sources are needed. Mihdhar left the U.S. in June, so it's also dubious, unsourced, with weasel words to say that "Al-Mihdhar is believed to have left the apartment in early October." -- Aude ( talk) 08:39, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
The part of the article discussing Mihdhar's selection for the plot should be a concise explanation of what the Malaysia meetings were about, within the timeline of events. I don't think that section should delve into discussion of intelligence on Mihdhar and the intelligence failure. Since these pieces of intelligence came together and the failure apparent after the 9/11 attacks, it really fits in the aftermath section and can be expanded upon there. -- Aude ( talk) 08:58, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
TIME says it was a Camry, not a Corolla [1] Sherurcij ( speaker for the dead) 00:18, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
A couple missing points that should be added before it gets promoted, first his connection to the Islamic Army of Aden, we'd be well-served to upgrade to the better government exhibit photo of http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/profiles/images/khalid_al-mihdhar_2.jpg, and it seems http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/profiles/images/khalid_al-mihdhar_3.jpg was also entered into exhibits at Moussaoui's trial. Sherurcij ( speaker for the dead) 20:59, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
I can find sources for May 5 and May 16, I cannot find any source alleging April 20th (currently in our infobox) - as this birthday would be shared with Adolf Hitler, the Columbine Massacre and "4:20" (a euphemism for marijuana), it seems at least possible this was unnoticed vandalism. Sherurcij ( speaker for the dead) 21:30, 30 September 2008 (UTC)
I went through the article twice and cleaned up grammar, spelling, wikilinks, etc. It needs more work to reach FA status, however. I inserted inline tags accompanied by questions in hidden comments next to things needing clarification, years, citations and page numbers. There are a lot of sources needing page numbers because they are PDFs, some of which are more than 100 pages.
These are the other things that need to be worked on:
Lead: I see that his birth date has been discussed before. It is currently listed as May 5/16, 1975, which is confusing, especially because the infobox lists it as May 16. I agree with Aude in using the birth date given by the majority of sources.
The lead provides information not found in the article. It should be a summary of info from the article; however, if it's going to be left as is, the additional information (such as him fighting with the mujahideen in Bosnia) needs citations.
Background: While this section mentions that he was involved with al-Qaeda through various family members, its not clear as to how he became involved in the "planes operation" (which also needs further explanation) and why Bin Laden chose him for the attacks plot.
Sources: I highly suggest using WebCite to archive all of the non-PDF web sources, especially because the article has a history of dead links.
The source URL given for his seat location and number is a page where you have to download a ZIP file to access the cited info. Try to find a more accessible source.
General items:
-- momoricks talk 13:05, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
My apologies, I should have been more clear when using this as an example. The mujahideen mention should be moved to the Background section, as the article is where the specifics should be given. momoricks talk 00:12, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
I have to apologize again. Sometimes electronic communication is unclear. I reworded the first few sentences of the Background section to say what I was trying to convey. Please let me know if I messed up anything. Thanks, momoricks talk 02:11, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
I don't think their frugality is especially notable; however, the other information is and should be added to the article. Without it the two mentions of the car don't make sense. momoricks talk 00:12, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
Kudos, this looks good. momoricks talk 00:12, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
I forgot to mention this in my previous note. Al-Qaeda needs to be consistent in the article. It is usually spelled al-Qaeda in the article but there a several instances in which it is spelled Al-Qaeda. momoricks talk 21:25, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 26 external links on Khalid al-Mihdhar. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 06:51, 5 May 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Khalid al-Mihdhar. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:13, 12 May 2017 (UTC)
Al-Mihdhar was born on May 16, 1975, in Mecca, Saudi Arabia to a prominent family, related to the Quraysh tribe of Mecca.
If it’s prominent, why the name of the family is not provided? If it’s prominent because of relations with the Quraysh, aren’t there countless of families with Quraysh lineage in Arabia? What makes it prominent if so (plus how do you assess if it’s actually related?)? JahlilMA ( talk) 05:55, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
seems like some poor taste to make this dude appear on the front page of wikipedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8806:6000:85:31C3:5FFE:E18:1A7C ( talk) 15:29, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
It IS in poor taste. Might as well add "In Memory of". It's sickening to put it on the front page, but not shocking coming from Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:807D:220:21B:63FF:FE39:C32D ( talk) 16:27, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
It seems like giving criminals free publicity like this (especially when his crime is no longer in the news, and not directly relevant to current news) is almost celebrating him. It's imaginable that it could encourage more people to do such crimes, telling them that if they are successful in their attempt to kill thousands of people, they will even taunt people years after their death on the front page of Wikipedia. I can also imagine it being insensitive and offensive to family members of those who died in 9/11. Gjetost ( talk) 16:38, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Yes, agree with the above 3 posts. North8000 ( talk) 17:31, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
Mass murderers should not be glorified with front page featured article status. This could easily be seen as supportign terrorism by idiots, and it is inappropriate to do anything that can be seen as supporting terrorism, especially since Wikipedia is trying to be a serious website. 82.10.141.252 ( talk) 20:08, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
The Infobox has an entry for "Occupation", and Khalid al-Mihdhar's occupation is given as "Terrorist." An occupation is usually defined as a full-time job where someone earns money on a weekly or steady basis. I have never heard of anyone earning a living as terrorist. A terrorist is a violent criminal who kills people and/or destroys property, not someone who is in the labor force and contributing to the Gross National Product. I really don't think that the 9/11 hijackers were contributing to the economy. The entry "Occupation" should be deleted from the Infobox. Anthony22 ( talk) 18:00, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
All Middle Eastern countries have that dating format. It's part of Western Asia and since he originated from an Arabic speaking country, it should be changed into DMY format both DOB and death like this: b. 16 May 1975-d. 11 September 2001.
Goodbye,
67.81.163.178 ( talk) 16:23, 12 February 2019 (UTC)