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Reviewer: Koustav Halder ( talk · contribs) 17:31, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Hi there. I'll be reviewing this article to see if it meets the GA Article criteria. -- Koustav
talk to me!
17:28, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Comments
- Lead
- Kindly provide a suitable citation referring to the inspiration drawn from
John List.
Koustav Halder (
talk)
17:31, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
- Per WP:LEADCITE, the lead doesn't need citations for content that's already cited elsewhere in the article. @ Koustav Halder: I'm not quite sure that your account is experienced enough to do a GA review. NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 17:49, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
- My bad, I mean it needs to be verified, later on in the Concept and Creation, this fact is not supported.
- Link KGB Koustav Halder ( talk) 18:06, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
- Link the phrase " make these accounts unreliable" to Unreliable Narrator ---- Koustav Halder ( talk) 02:05, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
- "associated" or "synonymous" is more concise and clear cut than the phrase "a shorthand way to describe" ---- Koustav Halder ( talk) 02:49, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
- Concept & Creation
- Kindly provide a reliable citation for sentence referring to
John List --- Koustav — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Koustav Halder (
talk •
contribs)
17:57, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
- It looks like the Google Books URL in the body might have changed in the three years since I added it. I corrected the link to be more specific, so that it points to the correct page in the book again. It still worked, but it didn't point to correct page. NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 18:03, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
- It looks like the Google Books URL in the body might have changed in the three years since I added it. I corrected the link to be more specific, so that it points to the correct page in the book again. It still worked, but it didn't point to correct page. NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 18:03, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
You could consider a better alternative citation for John List such as this. Koustav Halder ( talk) 07:23, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
- The book is a reliable source. It's at least as reliable as a listicle, if not more. NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 21:50, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
- After some browsing I find this section still lacks considerable necessary information that should incorporated at the earliest.
For Instance consider: Spacey met Bryan Singer at a screening of the director's first feature, Public Access, which won the Grand Jury Prize at Sundance in 1993. Spacey liked the movie so much that he told Singer he wanted to be in whatever he made next.( ref ). Söze was written with Kevin Spacey in mind,( ref ) as McQuarrie was of the opinion "he was lesser known at the time. I wanted the audience to dismiss him as a minor character.”( ref )
My point is this section needs to be expanded with more relevant information. A quick search threw up this much, detailed analysis should bring up more. Koustav Halder ( talk) 07:41, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
- This isn't a Featured Article, and it doesn't have to be comprehensive. Per WP:WIAGA, it only has to address the main aspects. The article already addresses most of this, but I can emphasize it. I don't think where Spacey and Singer first met is a necessary information about the character Keyser Soze, but I suppose it's harmless to add. NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 21:50, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
- Give the full form of lit. Koustav Halder ( talk) 07:48, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
- Fictional History
- Link "Customs Agent" (1st para) with United States Customs Service, "FBI" (1st para), "drawing" with facial composite (last para).
- Link only "Devil", not "the Devil" (3rd para).
- As per WP:QUOTE and MOS:FICT, you will need to provide a citation for the quote "The greatest trick......". The present citation (Ref 6) shows this quote has been paraphrased from the works of Charles Baudelaire. You need to provide a citation that shows this quote occurs in the movie.
- The sentence "Neither McQuarrie nor Singer realized this at the time and included it after hearing others paraphrase the quotation" (3rd para) is irrelevant to this particular section. This should rather be kept as a note if not edited out.
- " Cerebral palsy" (1st para) is highly specific. Most secondary sources I have encountered say Kint is either "disabled" or "limping" etc. Having taken occasion to go through the primary material, I find this is not explicitly supported by the primary source either. This should either be replaced or a reliable source must be added to support this fact. The same applies to "paralysis" (last para).
- Edit out "even" from the following sentence "Once his family is buried, Söze targets the Hungarian Mafia, their families, friends, and even people who owe them money" (2nd para). — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Koustav Halder (
talk •
contribs)
07:34, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- All of these are done. NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 21:45, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- Reception/Legacy
- Citations
- Ref 16, Ref 17, Ref 20, Ref 21 are dead. Replace with suitable citations.
- Acccording to Ref 22, Soze is ranked #41 not #69. Correct this.
- Acccording to Ref 32, Soze has come to mean a "renowned figure who is feared but elusive -- someone everyone hears about but no one ever meets in person". There is no mention of Soze being apocryphal which means "of dubious authenticity". Correct this. Also replace "shorthand" as in the lead. Koustav Halder ( talk) 07:42, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
- Capitalize 'von' (author's title) for ref 23.
Koustav Halder (
talk)
11:15, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
- That name looks German, and they don't capitalize " von"; it's not capitalized in the newspaper's byline. He also has a Wikipedia page, Richard von Busack, where it's not capitalized. I think it's probably best not to capitalize it. NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 17:27, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
- Content
- In the last sentence of the In popular culture section, the phrase "writer Russ Alan Prince asked what Söze would do" is awkward and vague. Replace with a better phrase or sentence supported by the source such as "writer Russ Alan Prince concludes that a number of the 'self-made super-rich' people would respond to these situations in the same manner as Keyser Söze". Koustav Halder ( talk) 07:42, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
- Question: have there been any negative or mixed reviews of the character?
Koustav Halder (
talk)
06:53, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
- The film got negative reviews, most notably by Roger Ebert, but it's usually the twist ending that gets criticized. One could argue that Keyser Soze is the twist ending, but that's an argument a reliable source would have to make. There certainly are sources that say the film itself is overrated, but I've never seen any that say the character is. NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 08:51, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
- Most of text in this section refers to the mid and long term impact of the character, judging by the sources. What about the immediate reception of the character, at the time this movie came out? You could add a few sources (the reviews of the movie might help) that illustrate this. A new sub-section dealing with this might additionally be created.
Koustav Halder (
talk)
01:51, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
- There are already a few quotations from contemporary reviews, such as A. O. Scott. I could add even more, but it would start turning into fluff – content added for the sake of expanding the article to an arbitrary size. A GA doesn't have to be long or excessively detailed; it just has to satisfy the criteria of WP:WIAGA. You're right that the article can expanded further, but I think it's already detailed enough to pass. NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 07:36, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
Final assessment
Pass. Good work in responding to various comments.
- It is reasonably well written.
- It is factually accurate and
verifiable.
- a (
reference section):
b (citations to
reliable sources): c (
OR):
- a (
reference section):
- It is broad in its coverage.
- a (
major aspects): b (
focused):
- a (
major aspects):
- It follows the
neutral point of view policy.
- Fair representation without bias:
- Fair representation without bias:
- It is stable.
- No edit wars, etc.:
- No edit wars, etc.:
- It is illustrated by
images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
- a (images are tagged and non-free content have
fair use rationales): b (
appropriate use with
suitable captions):
- a (images are tagged and non-free content have
fair use rationales):
- Overall:
- Pass/Fail:
- Pass/Fail:
| GA toolbox |
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| Reviewing |
Article (
|
visual edit |
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Article talk (
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Watch
Reviewer: Koustav Halder ( talk · contribs) 17:31, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Hi there. I'll be reviewing this article to see if it meets the GA Article criteria. -- Koustav
talk to me!
17:28, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
Comments
- Lead
- Kindly provide a suitable citation referring to the inspiration drawn from
John List.
Koustav Halder (
talk)
17:31, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
- Per WP:LEADCITE, the lead doesn't need citations for content that's already cited elsewhere in the article. @ Koustav Halder: I'm not quite sure that your account is experienced enough to do a GA review. NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 17:49, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
- My bad, I mean it needs to be verified, later on in the Concept and Creation, this fact is not supported.
- Link KGB Koustav Halder ( talk) 18:06, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
- Link the phrase " make these accounts unreliable" to Unreliable Narrator ---- Koustav Halder ( talk) 02:05, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
- "associated" or "synonymous" is more concise and clear cut than the phrase "a shorthand way to describe" ---- Koustav Halder ( talk) 02:49, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
- Concept & Creation
- Kindly provide a reliable citation for sentence referring to
John List --- Koustav — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Koustav Halder (
talk •
contribs)
17:57, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
- It looks like the Google Books URL in the body might have changed in the three years since I added it. I corrected the link to be more specific, so that it points to the correct page in the book again. It still worked, but it didn't point to correct page. NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 18:03, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
- It looks like the Google Books URL in the body might have changed in the three years since I added it. I corrected the link to be more specific, so that it points to the correct page in the book again. It still worked, but it didn't point to correct page. NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 18:03, 27 March 2016 (UTC)
You could consider a better alternative citation for John List such as this. Koustav Halder ( talk) 07:23, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
- The book is a reliable source. It's at least as reliable as a listicle, if not more. NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 21:50, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
- After some browsing I find this section still lacks considerable necessary information that should incorporated at the earliest.
For Instance consider: Spacey met Bryan Singer at a screening of the director's first feature, Public Access, which won the Grand Jury Prize at Sundance in 1993. Spacey liked the movie so much that he told Singer he wanted to be in whatever he made next.( ref ). Söze was written with Kevin Spacey in mind,( ref ) as McQuarrie was of the opinion "he was lesser known at the time. I wanted the audience to dismiss him as a minor character.”( ref )
My point is this section needs to be expanded with more relevant information. A quick search threw up this much, detailed analysis should bring up more. Koustav Halder ( talk) 07:41, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
- This isn't a Featured Article, and it doesn't have to be comprehensive. Per WP:WIAGA, it only has to address the main aspects. The article already addresses most of this, but I can emphasize it. I don't think where Spacey and Singer first met is a necessary information about the character Keyser Soze, but I suppose it's harmless to add. NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 21:50, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
- Give the full form of lit. Koustav Halder ( talk) 07:48, 28 March 2016 (UTC)
- Fictional History
- Link "Customs Agent" (1st para) with United States Customs Service, "FBI" (1st para), "drawing" with facial composite (last para).
- Link only "Devil", not "the Devil" (3rd para).
- As per WP:QUOTE and MOS:FICT, you will need to provide a citation for the quote "The greatest trick......". The present citation (Ref 6) shows this quote has been paraphrased from the works of Charles Baudelaire. You need to provide a citation that shows this quote occurs in the movie.
- The sentence "Neither McQuarrie nor Singer realized this at the time and included it after hearing others paraphrase the quotation" (3rd para) is irrelevant to this particular section. This should rather be kept as a note if not edited out.
- " Cerebral palsy" (1st para) is highly specific. Most secondary sources I have encountered say Kint is either "disabled" or "limping" etc. Having taken occasion to go through the primary material, I find this is not explicitly supported by the primary source either. This should either be replaced or a reliable source must be added to support this fact. The same applies to "paralysis" (last para).
- Edit out "even" from the following sentence "Once his family is buried, Söze targets the Hungarian Mafia, their families, friends, and even people who owe them money" (2nd para). — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Koustav Halder (
talk •
contribs)
07:34, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- All of these are done. NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 21:45, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
- Reception/Legacy
- Citations
- Ref 16, Ref 17, Ref 20, Ref 21 are dead. Replace with suitable citations.
- Acccording to Ref 22, Soze is ranked #41 not #69. Correct this.
- Acccording to Ref 32, Soze has come to mean a "renowned figure who is feared but elusive -- someone everyone hears about but no one ever meets in person". There is no mention of Soze being apocryphal which means "of dubious authenticity". Correct this. Also replace "shorthand" as in the lead. Koustav Halder ( talk) 07:42, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
- Capitalize 'von' (author's title) for ref 23.
Koustav Halder (
talk)
11:15, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
- That name looks German, and they don't capitalize " von"; it's not capitalized in the newspaper's byline. He also has a Wikipedia page, Richard von Busack, where it's not capitalized. I think it's probably best not to capitalize it. NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 17:27, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
- Content
- In the last sentence of the In popular culture section, the phrase "writer Russ Alan Prince asked what Söze would do" is awkward and vague. Replace with a better phrase or sentence supported by the source such as "writer Russ Alan Prince concludes that a number of the 'self-made super-rich' people would respond to these situations in the same manner as Keyser Söze". Koustav Halder ( talk) 07:42, 30 March 2016 (UTC)
- Question: have there been any negative or mixed reviews of the character?
Koustav Halder (
talk)
06:53, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
- The film got negative reviews, most notably by Roger Ebert, but it's usually the twist ending that gets criticized. One could argue that Keyser Soze is the twist ending, but that's an argument a reliable source would have to make. There certainly are sources that say the film itself is overrated, but I've never seen any that say the character is. NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 08:51, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
- Most of text in this section refers to the mid and long term impact of the character, judging by the sources. What about the immediate reception of the character, at the time this movie came out? You could add a few sources (the reviews of the movie might help) that illustrate this. A new sub-section dealing with this might additionally be created.
Koustav Halder (
talk)
01:51, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
- There are already a few quotations from contemporary reviews, such as A. O. Scott. I could add even more, but it would start turning into fluff – content added for the sake of expanding the article to an arbitrary size. A GA doesn't have to be long or excessively detailed; it just has to satisfy the criteria of WP:WIAGA. You're right that the article can expanded further, but I think it's already detailed enough to pass. NinjaRobotPirate ( talk) 07:36, 2 April 2016 (UTC)
Final assessment
Pass. Good work in responding to various comments.
- It is reasonably well written.
- It is factually accurate and
verifiable.
- a (
reference section): b (citations to
reliable sources): c (
OR):
- a (
reference section):
- It is broad in its coverage.
- a (
major aspects): b (
focused):
- a (
major aspects):
- It follows the
neutral point of view policy.
- Fair representation without bias:
- Fair representation without bias:
- It is stable.
- No edit wars, etc.:
- No edit wars, etc.:
- It is illustrated by
images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
- a (images are tagged and non-free content have
fair use rationales): b (
appropriate use with
suitable captions):
- a (images are tagged and non-free content have
fair use rationales):
- Overall:
- Pass/Fail:
- Pass/Fail: