![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
wait until Glenn Beck discovers this guy.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.117.99.131 ( talk) 02:43, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Fox News just reported that on page 103 of Jennings' 2007 autobiography, Mama's Boy, Preacher's Son: A Memoir, Jennings wrote "I got stoned more often and went out to the beach at Bellows, overlooking Honolulu Harbor and the lights of the city, to drink with my buddies on Friday and Saturday nights, spending hours watching the planes take off and land at the airport, which is actually quite fascinating when you are drunk and stoned." Grundle2600 ( talk) 12:55, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
This is an editorial from The Washington Times, so it can't be used as a source in the article. But it's probably only a matter of time until a non-editorial source pays attention to this. It says that when Jennings was a teacher, a 15 year old student told him that he had been the victim of a statutory rape. It also says that Jennings broke the law by not reporting what happened. It also says that Jennings encouraged the student to have more sex with the adult. For someone who is the "safe schools czar," this is highly notable. Once a better source comes along, it should be added to the article. Grundle2600 ( talk) 22:30, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
Recent allegations that Kevin Jennings violated state law as a teacher in refusing to report a case of statutary rape between a 15-year-old student and an older man have been supported by a 2000 audiotape recording. [1]In reports by Fox News and The Washington Times, the tape was said to be of a talk that Jennings gave to the Iowa chapter of the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network, in which Jennings recollected that he informed the student to make sure "to use a condom" when he was with the older man. In his 1994 book, One Teacher in 10, Jennings also notes that he allayed the student's concerns about the relationship such that the 15-year-old "left my office with a smile on his face that I would see every time I saw him on the campus for the next two years, until he graduated.". [2] Conservative groups have launched upon this report as evidence of a failure to report a sexual predator when he had the chance.
Is this article going to go the way of Van Jones and John Edwards' articles where Fox News was not considered a credible source, despite solid backing, and all objectional parts were taken out and article locked down into pro-Jones and pro-Edwards PR? The Van Jones articles and Edwards articles as locked down were embarrasing; lets not do this with the Jennings information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.141.24.158 ( talk) 14:05, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
To everyone - Just as I predicted when I started this section of the talk page, a mainstream source, ABC News, has finally decided to report on this incident. Grundle2600 ( talk) 23:18, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone here have any reasonable objections to citing that ABC report in this article? Grundle2600 ( talk) 23:20, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
This story is now heavily sourced, including by Jennings own public statement on September 30, 2009, as well as by two of his books, ABC News, etc. See Fox News Report of September 30:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/30/obamas-safe-schools-czar-admits-bad-handling-teen-sex-case/ Obama's Safe Schools Czar Admits He Poorly Handled Underage Sex Case"] Fox News —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.44.163.134 ( talk) 14:49, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia had content on the Mark Foley scandal, and even an entire new article created on the Mark Foley Scandal immediately after the story broke. But a line is drawn with the Kevin Jennings scandal? Who determines what is a reputable media? The Washington Times, which has broke many stories since its founding in 1982, and Fox News, are not considered reputable (look at how Fox News' reports on John Edwards, proven true, were not allowed by Wikipedia), but other news media are? Who makes these determinations at Wikipedia?
The Foley and Edwards cases are not a good parallel, as Foley was a prominent leadership member of the House of Representatives and Edwards was a two-time presidential primary candidate and a nominated vice-presidential candidate, while Jennings is an obscure person holding an obscure office in a relatively unimportant cabinet department. Wasted Time R ( talk) 23:10, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
I've removed the statement about the Director of the Office of Safe and Drug-Free Schools being called the "Safe Schools Czar". I've done a lot of searching, and I can't find any regular news source other than Fox News that calls it that, either in connection with Jennings or any prior director. The AP, Los Angeles Times, ABC News, and other news outlets that we've used in this article don't use the "czar" term. Nor should they; czars are special positions that are set up to cross bureaucratic lines to solve some particular problem, and who typically report to the president. This is just an office within a single cabinet department set up to handle some particular aspect of what that department is supposed to be doing, and the announcement of it was made by Secretary Duncan, not Obama. It's no different than the Office of Federal Student Aid or the Office of Vocational and Adult Education or the Office of Special Education and Rehabilitative Services with the Department of Ed, or hundreds of other offices in other departments. This "czar" use is just an example of Fox News getting a bit carried away. Wasted Time R ( talk) 12:06, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
"From what I've heard, I have concerns as well," Jennings told the Boston Globe in May 2000. "GLSEN believes that children do have a right to accurate, safer sex education, but this needs to be delivered in an age-appropriate and sensitive manner.
"What troubles me is the people who have the tape know what our mission is, they know that our work is about preventing harassment and they know that session was not the totality of what was offered at a conference with over 50 sessions," he said.
But Peter LaBarbera, President of "Americans for Truth About Homosexuality, said Jennings' reaction was weak and unacceptable.
"He never really apologized. If a conservative group had done that, they would be out of business," LaBarbera said. [3]
Jennings has come under criticism[21] for his praise of Harry Hay, a prominent public supporter of the North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA).[22][23] In 1994, Jennings edited and co-authored a book entitled Becoming Visible: A Reader in Gay and Lesbian History for High School and College Students, in which chapter 11 is called Harry Hay and the Beginnings of the Homophile Movement.[24]
The Sean Hannity opinion column is employed in order to demonstrate that Mr. Jennings has been criticized; surely Mr. Hannity calling for his resignation constitutes "criticism?" That is why I put that citation (#21, as can be readily viewed above, in my initial quoting of my edits to the article, at the top of this section) immediately after the phrase "Jennings has come under criticism..."
The Mark Tapscott piece from the Washington Examiner cited facts; I did not quote Mr. Tapscott's subjective opinion about the relative merits of Mr. Jennings, but rather the facts of the case which were noted in the piece.
I did not cite the http://www.riehlworldview.com article itself, but rather I cited a reference to it contained wholly within the website of The Wall Street Journal. The Wall Street Journal cited that RiehlWorldView piece, and I cited The Wall Street Journal. That is a very different thing from what you allege I have done.
I am also more than a little unclear how it is improper to cite the Table of Contents page from a book, when attempting to establish the name of one of the chapters of that same book. That would seem to be a very distinctly ludicrous proposition. KevinOKeeffe ( talk) 15:09, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/04/obamas-lewd-schools-czar/?feat=article_top10_read
---QUOTE BEGINS---
On Oct. 25, 1997, at a conference for the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network, Mr. Jennings stated, "One of the people that's always inspired me is Harry Hay." The late Hay was a "gay-rights" activist most notorious for supporting the North American Man Boy Love Association. In 1983, speaking in support of NAMBLA, Hay claimed: "[I]f the parents and friends of gays are truly friends of gays, they would know from their gay kids that the relationship with an older man is precisely what 13-, 14-, and 15-year-old kids need more than anything else in the world."
---QUOTE ENDS---
I trust we are all in agreement that the above text is supportive of my contention that Mr. Jennings praised Harry Hay, as well as the related contention that praise of Mr. Hay is controversial within American society? KevinOKeeffe ( talk) 16:46, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
The attack on Jennings is based on this syllogism: Person A praises person B for doing thing X. Person B also has done thing Y. Therefore Person A endorses thing Y. This is obviously faulty. You are allowed to praise somebody for having done a particular thing without buying into everything else the person has done. Wasted Time R ( talk) 23:32, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Some of the writing in this article is substandard. A sentence such as, "The chairwoman of the NEA's Republican Educators Caucus criticized the NEA for the award, citing a 1988 story from one of Jennings' books where he being a high school teacher and counseling a teenage male student who was sexually involved with an adult male", does not make sense and is not grammatical. I'm calling attention to this here as the badness of the writing may well be a clue to other problems. BG talk 21:30, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Please don't use these sources especially to add negative material on BLPs - they just aren't helpful and anything notable enough will be covered in reliable sources. -- Banjeboi 23:51, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
“ | An editorial in the Washington Times, [4] followed by commentator Sean Hannity [5] criticized Jennings for his remarks about Harry Hay, an early founder of the country's gay rights movement. [6] Jennings gave a speech in 1997, in which he said "One of the people that's always inspired me is Harry Hay, who started the first ongoing gay rights groups in America. In 1948, he tried to get people to join the Mattachine Society. It took him two years to find one other person who would join. Well, [in] 1993, Harry Hay marched with a million people in Washington, who thought he had a good idea 40 years before." [7] | ” |
Harry Hay is pretty close to being indisputably the most prominent public advocate of sexual relations between adult men and underage youth in American history. When a prominent official within the U.S. Department of Education praises a man who attended NAMBLA conferences, and marched with NAMBLA banners (photographic evidence of which I recently posted to the Harry Hay Talk page), then that fact becomes a major aspect of his public persona, whether his faithful partisans like it or not. If one Googles "Harry Hay," one of the first ten hits to come up is a NAMBLA link to an essay entitled "Harry Hay on Man/Boy Love." Within the narrow confines of the gay activist community, Harry Hay may be seen as a pioneering activist, but almost everyone else in the Western world, among those familiar with his name, regard him as one of the most disgusting and vile public figures in modern memory. When Kevin Jennings praises Harry Hay, a very public & prominent child-adult sex advocate, that fact forever attaches itself to Kevin Jennings, and his career. That's just the way the world works, outside of the insular world of gay activism. If a member of the Bush administration praised George Lincoln Rockwell, I very much doubt any of you guys would be trying to remove that from his article. Well, this is the same kind of situation, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. KevinOKeeffe ( talk) 05:11, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Proposed material:
The Family Research Council started the Christian right's campaign against Jennings' appointment. [2] Newross ( talk) 20:55, 11 October 2009 (UTC)— Jennings is not an "Obama aide"—he is an Assistant Deputy Secretary of Education who reports to Deputy Secretary of Education Tony Miller who reports to Secretary of Education Arne Duncan. [1]
— Jennings did not write in any book "that when he was a 24-year-old teacher, a gay student confided that he'd had sex with an older man."
The current wording is now:
“ | Social conservatives in the Christian right criticized Jennings' appointment while Education Secretary Duncan, the White House, the NEA, and the National Association of Secondary School Principals have supported Jennings' appointment. | ” |
The 1988 counseling issue has been generally re-written and moved to the section above. -- Banjeboi 12:44, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
I removed the part about the person being of age and not having sex since it didn't really make sense. I guess the talking headz(my s key iz broken) are making thiz an izzue? Anywayz, let me get a new key board :) -- Tom (talk) 21:10, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
Jennings gives an extended speech about GLSEN [4]. -- Banjeboi 04:40, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
As I look back through the discussion history regarding this article, I must say quite frankly that it is one of the worst displays of whitewashing and sanitizing I have ever seen on Wikipedia. Any attempt by anyone to add information on the significant criticism of Jennings as Director of the Office of Safe Schools (which criticism is one of the best-known and most notable facts about Mr. Jennings) has been downplayed or removed based on tenuous-at-best claims about sources, notability, etc. For those editors who are determined to create an online encyclopedia that is devoted less to facts than to promulgating a liberal worldview, I say: Congratulations. You've done a great job. The current article embeds some mention of the "Brewster" episode within one paragraph, then quickly dismisses it. The section on Mr. Jennings' current position has "consensus" language stating that there was opposition to his appointment, but politely declines to mention WHY there was opposition. This is nothing short of ridiculous. The article is unbalanced and reeks of POV. Unfortunately, I have every confidence that it will stay that way. 72.224.119.119 ( talk) 18:48, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
Is Presidential advisorss category correct? TIA -- Tom (talk) 14:38, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
I think it's United States presidential advisors. DLHugsly ( talk) 07:07, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
fox093009
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).cnn100209
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
wait until Glenn Beck discovers this guy.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.117.99.131 ( talk) 02:43, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Fox News just reported that on page 103 of Jennings' 2007 autobiography, Mama's Boy, Preacher's Son: A Memoir, Jennings wrote "I got stoned more often and went out to the beach at Bellows, overlooking Honolulu Harbor and the lights of the city, to drink with my buddies on Friday and Saturday nights, spending hours watching the planes take off and land at the airport, which is actually quite fascinating when you are drunk and stoned." Grundle2600 ( talk) 12:55, 24 September 2009 (UTC)
This is an editorial from The Washington Times, so it can't be used as a source in the article. But it's probably only a matter of time until a non-editorial source pays attention to this. It says that when Jennings was a teacher, a 15 year old student told him that he had been the victim of a statutory rape. It also says that Jennings broke the law by not reporting what happened. It also says that Jennings encouraged the student to have more sex with the adult. For someone who is the "safe schools czar," this is highly notable. Once a better source comes along, it should be added to the article. Grundle2600 ( talk) 22:30, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
Recent allegations that Kevin Jennings violated state law as a teacher in refusing to report a case of statutary rape between a 15-year-old student and an older man have been supported by a 2000 audiotape recording. [1]In reports by Fox News and The Washington Times, the tape was said to be of a talk that Jennings gave to the Iowa chapter of the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network, in which Jennings recollected that he informed the student to make sure "to use a condom" when he was with the older man. In his 1994 book, One Teacher in 10, Jennings also notes that he allayed the student's concerns about the relationship such that the 15-year-old "left my office with a smile on his face that I would see every time I saw him on the campus for the next two years, until he graduated.". [2] Conservative groups have launched upon this report as evidence of a failure to report a sexual predator when he had the chance.
Is this article going to go the way of Van Jones and John Edwards' articles where Fox News was not considered a credible source, despite solid backing, and all objectional parts were taken out and article locked down into pro-Jones and pro-Edwards PR? The Van Jones articles and Edwards articles as locked down were embarrasing; lets not do this with the Jennings information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.141.24.158 ( talk) 14:05, 29 September 2009 (UTC)
To everyone - Just as I predicted when I started this section of the talk page, a mainstream source, ABC News, has finally decided to report on this incident. Grundle2600 ( talk) 23:18, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
Does anyone here have any reasonable objections to citing that ABC report in this article? Grundle2600 ( talk) 23:20, 30 September 2009 (UTC)
This story is now heavily sourced, including by Jennings own public statement on September 30, 2009, as well as by two of his books, ABC News, etc. See Fox News Report of September 30:
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/09/30/obamas-safe-schools-czar-admits-bad-handling-teen-sex-case/ Obama's Safe Schools Czar Admits He Poorly Handled Underage Sex Case"] Fox News —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.44.163.134 ( talk) 14:49, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia had content on the Mark Foley scandal, and even an entire new article created on the Mark Foley Scandal immediately after the story broke. But a line is drawn with the Kevin Jennings scandal? Who determines what is a reputable media? The Washington Times, which has broke many stories since its founding in 1982, and Fox News, are not considered reputable (look at how Fox News' reports on John Edwards, proven true, were not allowed by Wikipedia), but other news media are? Who makes these determinations at Wikipedia?
The Foley and Edwards cases are not a good parallel, as Foley was a prominent leadership member of the House of Representatives and Edwards was a two-time presidential primary candidate and a nominated vice-presidential candidate, while Jennings is an obscure person holding an obscure office in a relatively unimportant cabinet department. Wasted Time R ( talk) 23:10, 1 October 2009 (UTC)
I've removed the statement about the Director of the Office of Safe and Drug-Free Schools being called the "Safe Schools Czar". I've done a lot of searching, and I can't find any regular news source other than Fox News that calls it that, either in connection with Jennings or any prior director. The AP, Los Angeles Times, ABC News, and other news outlets that we've used in this article don't use the "czar" term. Nor should they; czars are special positions that are set up to cross bureaucratic lines to solve some particular problem, and who typically report to the president. This is just an office within a single cabinet department set up to handle some particular aspect of what that department is supposed to be doing, and the announcement of it was made by Secretary Duncan, not Obama. It's no different than the Office of Federal Student Aid or the Office of Vocational and Adult Education or the Office of Special Education and Rehabilitative Services with the Department of Ed, or hundreds of other offices in other departments. This "czar" use is just an example of Fox News getting a bit carried away. Wasted Time R ( talk) 12:06, 3 October 2009 (UTC)
"From what I've heard, I have concerns as well," Jennings told the Boston Globe in May 2000. "GLSEN believes that children do have a right to accurate, safer sex education, but this needs to be delivered in an age-appropriate and sensitive manner.
"What troubles me is the people who have the tape know what our mission is, they know that our work is about preventing harassment and they know that session was not the totality of what was offered at a conference with over 50 sessions," he said.
But Peter LaBarbera, President of "Americans for Truth About Homosexuality, said Jennings' reaction was weak and unacceptable.
"He never really apologized. If a conservative group had done that, they would be out of business," LaBarbera said. [3]
Jennings has come under criticism[21] for his praise of Harry Hay, a prominent public supporter of the North American Man/Boy Love Association (NAMBLA).[22][23] In 1994, Jennings edited and co-authored a book entitled Becoming Visible: A Reader in Gay and Lesbian History for High School and College Students, in which chapter 11 is called Harry Hay and the Beginnings of the Homophile Movement.[24]
The Sean Hannity opinion column is employed in order to demonstrate that Mr. Jennings has been criticized; surely Mr. Hannity calling for his resignation constitutes "criticism?" That is why I put that citation (#21, as can be readily viewed above, in my initial quoting of my edits to the article, at the top of this section) immediately after the phrase "Jennings has come under criticism..."
The Mark Tapscott piece from the Washington Examiner cited facts; I did not quote Mr. Tapscott's subjective opinion about the relative merits of Mr. Jennings, but rather the facts of the case which were noted in the piece.
I did not cite the http://www.riehlworldview.com article itself, but rather I cited a reference to it contained wholly within the website of The Wall Street Journal. The Wall Street Journal cited that RiehlWorldView piece, and I cited The Wall Street Journal. That is a very different thing from what you allege I have done.
I am also more than a little unclear how it is improper to cite the Table of Contents page from a book, when attempting to establish the name of one of the chapters of that same book. That would seem to be a very distinctly ludicrous proposition. KevinOKeeffe ( talk) 15:09, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/oct/04/obamas-lewd-schools-czar/?feat=article_top10_read
---QUOTE BEGINS---
On Oct. 25, 1997, at a conference for the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network, Mr. Jennings stated, "One of the people that's always inspired me is Harry Hay." The late Hay was a "gay-rights" activist most notorious for supporting the North American Man Boy Love Association. In 1983, speaking in support of NAMBLA, Hay claimed: "[I]f the parents and friends of gays are truly friends of gays, they would know from their gay kids that the relationship with an older man is precisely what 13-, 14-, and 15-year-old kids need more than anything else in the world."
---QUOTE ENDS---
I trust we are all in agreement that the above text is supportive of my contention that Mr. Jennings praised Harry Hay, as well as the related contention that praise of Mr. Hay is controversial within American society? KevinOKeeffe ( talk) 16:46, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
The attack on Jennings is based on this syllogism: Person A praises person B for doing thing X. Person B also has done thing Y. Therefore Person A endorses thing Y. This is obviously faulty. You are allowed to praise somebody for having done a particular thing without buying into everything else the person has done. Wasted Time R ( talk) 23:32, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Some of the writing in this article is substandard. A sentence such as, "The chairwoman of the NEA's Republican Educators Caucus criticized the NEA for the award, citing a 1988 story from one of Jennings' books where he being a high school teacher and counseling a teenage male student who was sexually involved with an adult male", does not make sense and is not grammatical. I'm calling attention to this here as the badness of the writing may well be a clue to other problems. BG talk 21:30, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
Please don't use these sources especially to add negative material on BLPs - they just aren't helpful and anything notable enough will be covered in reliable sources. -- Banjeboi 23:51, 7 October 2009 (UTC)
“ | An editorial in the Washington Times, [4] followed by commentator Sean Hannity [5] criticized Jennings for his remarks about Harry Hay, an early founder of the country's gay rights movement. [6] Jennings gave a speech in 1997, in which he said "One of the people that's always inspired me is Harry Hay, who started the first ongoing gay rights groups in America. In 1948, he tried to get people to join the Mattachine Society. It took him two years to find one other person who would join. Well, [in] 1993, Harry Hay marched with a million people in Washington, who thought he had a good idea 40 years before." [7] | ” |
Harry Hay is pretty close to being indisputably the most prominent public advocate of sexual relations between adult men and underage youth in American history. When a prominent official within the U.S. Department of Education praises a man who attended NAMBLA conferences, and marched with NAMBLA banners (photographic evidence of which I recently posted to the Harry Hay Talk page), then that fact becomes a major aspect of his public persona, whether his faithful partisans like it or not. If one Googles "Harry Hay," one of the first ten hits to come up is a NAMBLA link to an essay entitled "Harry Hay on Man/Boy Love." Within the narrow confines of the gay activist community, Harry Hay may be seen as a pioneering activist, but almost everyone else in the Western world, among those familiar with his name, regard him as one of the most disgusting and vile public figures in modern memory. When Kevin Jennings praises Harry Hay, a very public & prominent child-adult sex advocate, that fact forever attaches itself to Kevin Jennings, and his career. That's just the way the world works, outside of the insular world of gay activism. If a member of the Bush administration praised George Lincoln Rockwell, I very much doubt any of you guys would be trying to remove that from his article. Well, this is the same kind of situation, whether you choose to acknowledge it or not. KevinOKeeffe ( talk) 05:11, 8 October 2009 (UTC)
Proposed material:
The Family Research Council started the Christian right's campaign against Jennings' appointment. [2] Newross ( talk) 20:55, 11 October 2009 (UTC)— Jennings is not an "Obama aide"—he is an Assistant Deputy Secretary of Education who reports to Deputy Secretary of Education Tony Miller who reports to Secretary of Education Arne Duncan. [1]
— Jennings did not write in any book "that when he was a 24-year-old teacher, a gay student confided that he'd had sex with an older man."
The current wording is now:
“ | Social conservatives in the Christian right criticized Jennings' appointment while Education Secretary Duncan, the White House, the NEA, and the National Association of Secondary School Principals have supported Jennings' appointment. | ” |
The 1988 counseling issue has been generally re-written and moved to the section above. -- Banjeboi 12:44, 17 October 2009 (UTC)
I removed the part about the person being of age and not having sex since it didn't really make sense. I guess the talking headz(my s key iz broken) are making thiz an izzue? Anywayz, let me get a new key board :) -- Tom (talk) 21:10, 10 December 2009 (UTC)
Jennings gives an extended speech about GLSEN [4]. -- Banjeboi 04:40, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
As I look back through the discussion history regarding this article, I must say quite frankly that it is one of the worst displays of whitewashing and sanitizing I have ever seen on Wikipedia. Any attempt by anyone to add information on the significant criticism of Jennings as Director of the Office of Safe Schools (which criticism is one of the best-known and most notable facts about Mr. Jennings) has been downplayed or removed based on tenuous-at-best claims about sources, notability, etc. For those editors who are determined to create an online encyclopedia that is devoted less to facts than to promulgating a liberal worldview, I say: Congratulations. You've done a great job. The current article embeds some mention of the "Brewster" episode within one paragraph, then quickly dismisses it. The section on Mr. Jennings' current position has "consensus" language stating that there was opposition to his appointment, but politely declines to mention WHY there was opposition. This is nothing short of ridiculous. The article is unbalanced and reeks of POV. Unfortunately, I have every confidence that it will stay that way. 72.224.119.119 ( talk) 18:48, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
Is Presidential advisorss category correct? TIA -- Tom (talk) 14:38, 9 December 2009 (UTC)
I think it's United States presidential advisors. DLHugsly ( talk) 07:07, 20 March 2011 (UTC)
fox093009
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).cnn100209
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).