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The account of the Iran operation is fiercely POV, relying on a highly controversial book. Should emphatically be revised for neutrality. [unsigned?]
This brief synopsis is by no means conclusive. It is meant to refute the simplistic and plainly inaccurate assertion above, that the TPAJAX was an entirely economically motivated conspiracy that was orchestrated by John and Alan Dulles. Unfortunately for Mr. Blum’s advocate above, the reality is, as usual, rather more complicated than the conspiracy theorists suggest.
![]() | This article possibly contains
original research. (October 2007) |
The information below has nothing to do with Kermit Roosevelt.
"One controversial argument citation needed which has been put forward by William Blum in his 2003 book the book Killing Hope suggests that a conspiracy organized by the Dulles brothers was the main motivation for US involvement in Iran. citation needed The Dulles brothers had worked for Sullivan and Cromwell, a prominent law firm that represented Standard Oil of New Jersey. Standard Oil had wanted to gain oil interests in Iran for many years; but the AIOC had a monopoly on the region. The Dulles brothers saw a chance to give Standard Oil the ability to set up operations in the region, when the British asked about a coup. The British, no longer the dominant power, knew they could not remove Mossadegh without the US, which meant that the US would be entitled to a portion of the Iranian Oil, which they were ok with, because 60% is better than nothing. After the Coup, 40% of Iranian oil was owned by US oil companies.
In addition to relying on entirely circumstantial evidence, this theory ignores several key factors outlined below. First, the idea of ousting Mossadegh had been formed in preliminary stages by the Truman administration long before the Dulles brothers came into their positions as Secretary of State (JF) and Director of Central Intelligence under Eisenhower. Steve Marsh's article The United States, Iran and Operation 'Ajax': Inverting Interpretative Orthodoxy [1] points out key policy continuities between the two administrations, arguing that the change in administration was not the key factor in the acceptance of the coup. Second, it ignores the most basic goals of British foreign policy in Iran. To say that Britain was no longer the dominant power in the Middle East is accurate, but to assume that this was understood by the people and governments in power is not. The subsequent events in Suez show that even after the fall of Mossadegh, Britain still felt it had a right to overseas possessions. Moreover British policy did not show willingness to compromise. In fact, the blockade and sanctions imposed on Mossadegh’s government represented a successful unilateral policy that could have crippled Iran and, in the long term, been successful in reestablishing the dominance of the AIOC, or at the very least destroying Iran’s political stability entirely thereby sending a message to the world that nationalization of private property was not acceptable, and that the sanctity of contract endured.
A major factor that made this plan unacceptable to the new superpower was that it would probably leave Iran politically and economically crippled. citation needed The cold-war mentality in the US viewed this possibility as extremely dangerous, as it could result in communist takeover. This (probably unrealistic) fear of communist takeover was played on by the British and Iranians to encourage US support. citation needed Eventually, Churchill prevailed and convinced the Eisenhower administration that they would better contain the communist threat by removing Mossadeq. These arguments were meant to refute the assertions that the TPAJAX was an entirely economically motivated conspiracy that was orchestrated by John and Alan Dulles with the help of Kermit Roosevelt. citation needed"
Therefore I've removed it.
If anyone has any citations linking Roosevelt to the supposed Oil related motivation of the coup, please feel free to post this back up. Or it could be incorporated into the existing TPAJAX article. Matt
There is some speculation that Kim Roosevelt may have been part of a British plot to maintain an anglophile alliance with the United States. The British company AIOC ( Anglo Iranian Oil Company) had a full monopoly on Iranian oil, but by 1951, Prime Minister Mossadegh had nationalized oil and removed British interests in the region. The British contacted the Truman administration to set up a coup, but they were not interested, as Mossadeq had been an anti-communist, and kept the Tudeh Party in place. However, in 1953 a new administration came to power and contacted MI-6 (British) to give their support for a coup. John Foster Dulles ( secretary of state from 1953-1961) and his younger brother Allen Dulles (CIA Director) came up with Operation Ajax, a plan giving a million dollars to Kermit Roosevelt to create a coup. Roosevelt began giving money to General Zahedi, who in turn distributed the money among his soldiers to ensure their loyalty. In 1953, Zahedi led tanks into Tehran and closed the Majlis (legislature) and removed Mossadegh from power.
This article is horribly riddled with run-on sentences! Don't mind me, just posting as a bookmark to remind me to come back to this page.-- Jersey Devil 09:31, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Isn't this guy notable for anything in his long life other than the coup that put the Shah back on the throne? Thats how the lead sentence and almost the entire article is taken up with it. Certainly it was important, but is that the only thing about him worthy of mention?-- Dudeman5685 ( talk) 01:42, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
John Perkins calls Kermit Roosevelt the first economic hitman in his book confessions of an economic hitman. I feel like that should be mentioned somewhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.207.106.181 ( talk) 22:15, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
First? consider selective enslavement of African rice farmers. Or Charles Beard's An Economic Interpretation for the Constitution of the United States.
both could be considered crimes equal due to scale to "hits" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:1C2:4E02:9580:D1D8:F84:B8B9:E66F ( talk) 23:06, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
I know Wiki articles should be taken with a grain of salt, but this... really?
We have these things called "Editors"; check them out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.87.108.232 ( talk) 11:47, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
As it stands, this content is mistitled. This article is most substantially an article about Operation Ajax.
Because of this misguided, redundant presentation of that other article's focused material, again here, this article fails to provide readers with an adequate picture of the title subject—who he was, his life, training, public service, etc., as a notable historic, public figure. Simply put, the article fails as encyclopedic content.
As such, three tags were placed,
Please feel free to discuss, but it appears that these issues are longstanding, and by tagging them, perhaps we can bring in newly interested editors, and so move the article toward being encyclopedic, and so a good WP article. Le Prof 71.201.62.200 ( talk) 04:26, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
First, in the section on Roosevelt writings, I replaced a URL-only source with the complete citation, including a link to a reliable reprint of the actual Pamphlet. Note, I removed the description of the pamphlet as "an anti-Zionist pamphlet" because this is an opinion/analysis that is WP:OR coming from an editor, and needs a source for such a description to appear in the encyclopedia.
Second, in the "Early career" section, a quote regarding the IAAA pamphlet attributed to Roosevelt was simply in error. The quote that appeared was not from Roosevelt (as indicated), nor in the source indicated, but was rather a statement appearing at the archive site of the Roosevelt pamphlet, and made by anon. archive.org archivist. Moreover, there is no Foreign Affairs article as suggested—based on searching, it appears Roosevelt never published in this periodical, and the quoted text does not appear in that periodical either. Hence, THE EARLIER APPEARING JOURNAL WAS INACCURATE AS A STATED SOURCE, AND THE ROOSEVELT LINK WAS NOT THE SOURCE OF THE INFORMATION APPEARING (QUOTED OR OTHERWISE). Simply put, the sentence as a whole had no basis that could be found, in the earlier cited link/source, or otherwise. It was replaced by similar descriptive text that is now accurate to the sources. Le Prof 71.201.62.200 ( talk) 15:48, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
First, note, that labeling a subsection based on its principle sourcing is non-standard and unacceptable; I was the one who did this, and expect its being edited out when the reality changes—when the section is newly sourced by an array of reliable, balanced or otherwise unbiased sources. Until the sourcing and balance are in line with wikipedia policy, I ask that this heading remain. (When it is not exclusively a "democracynow.com" perspective, change the subsection title, by all means.)
Second, I am changing the "too close to source tag" on this subsection, to a POV tag. I understand that the POV tag will draw editorial scrutiny to the section, and this is precisely what is needed. Cheers. Le Prof. 71.201.62.200 ( talk) 14:00, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
Both the infobox and the "personal" section refer to a "Kermit III". The later *refers* to a Kermit Roosevelt III, born April 7, 1938. The former *links* to a Kermit III who is this Kermit, Jr.'s grandson, although according to his CV (at https://www.law.upenn.edu/cf/faculty/krooseve/cv.pdf ), he does self-identify as a "III" — but he was born July 14, 1971, and so is clearly the grandson of this Kermit, Jr., and is specified as so on the Kermit Roosevelt disambiguation page. A little disambiguation might help? Was the first III actually a II, or have there really been two IIIs? MrRedwood ( talk) 08:49, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
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This article should surely be an NPOV account of Kermit Roosevelt's efforts to advance US interests. And yet its replete with statements such as ...
What's that mean? Arab Americans were not putting the interests of the US first? If Kermit had been a patriotic American he'd not have been involved with "Arab Americans"?
What's that mean? American Jews and Christians had no business protesting what was rapidly becoming the eviction of 5/6ths of all the Christians of Israel?
What's that mean? Americans familiar with the ME were (and presumably are) not entitled to criticise US support for Israel?
What's that mean? The CIA and ARAMCO were anti-American engaged in Arabist propaganda, sabotaging US interests in the region? 86.140.150.40 ( talk) 18:40, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Words to watch#Contentious labels warns that terrorism is loaded language and should not be used unless explicitly described as such by reliable sources. @ 91.125.23.152 has asserted that Roosevelt's time in the CIA was a "terrorism career" by the literal definition of terrorism, and that Wikipedia is doing its readers a disservice not describing his participation in Operation Ajax and fomenting other CIA-sponsored coups as terrorism.
This has apparently been implicit consensus by silence as the section title §Cold War and CIA Terrorism and its seven mentions of "terrorism" have survived for over a month, although it was removed from the lead sentence. It is possible for a local consensus of editors to ignore the suggestions of the Manual of Style, or that editors with access to sources can find his actions being described as such.
Should the "terrorism" wording stay or be removed? 93 ( talk) 05:07, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
Pinging users with relevant edits or discussions: @ Yoshi24517, Binksternet, 143.208.236.146, 91.125.23.152, and Ljray92: 93 ( talk) 08:47, 18 March 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
The account of the Iran operation is fiercely POV, relying on a highly controversial book. Should emphatically be revised for neutrality. [unsigned?]
This brief synopsis is by no means conclusive. It is meant to refute the simplistic and plainly inaccurate assertion above, that the TPAJAX was an entirely economically motivated conspiracy that was orchestrated by John and Alan Dulles. Unfortunately for Mr. Blum’s advocate above, the reality is, as usual, rather more complicated than the conspiracy theorists suggest.
![]() | This article possibly contains
original research. (October 2007) |
The information below has nothing to do with Kermit Roosevelt.
"One controversial argument citation needed which has been put forward by William Blum in his 2003 book the book Killing Hope suggests that a conspiracy organized by the Dulles brothers was the main motivation for US involvement in Iran. citation needed The Dulles brothers had worked for Sullivan and Cromwell, a prominent law firm that represented Standard Oil of New Jersey. Standard Oil had wanted to gain oil interests in Iran for many years; but the AIOC had a monopoly on the region. The Dulles brothers saw a chance to give Standard Oil the ability to set up operations in the region, when the British asked about a coup. The British, no longer the dominant power, knew they could not remove Mossadegh without the US, which meant that the US would be entitled to a portion of the Iranian Oil, which they were ok with, because 60% is better than nothing. After the Coup, 40% of Iranian oil was owned by US oil companies.
In addition to relying on entirely circumstantial evidence, this theory ignores several key factors outlined below. First, the idea of ousting Mossadegh had been formed in preliminary stages by the Truman administration long before the Dulles brothers came into their positions as Secretary of State (JF) and Director of Central Intelligence under Eisenhower. Steve Marsh's article The United States, Iran and Operation 'Ajax': Inverting Interpretative Orthodoxy [1] points out key policy continuities between the two administrations, arguing that the change in administration was not the key factor in the acceptance of the coup. Second, it ignores the most basic goals of British foreign policy in Iran. To say that Britain was no longer the dominant power in the Middle East is accurate, but to assume that this was understood by the people and governments in power is not. The subsequent events in Suez show that even after the fall of Mossadegh, Britain still felt it had a right to overseas possessions. Moreover British policy did not show willingness to compromise. In fact, the blockade and sanctions imposed on Mossadegh’s government represented a successful unilateral policy that could have crippled Iran and, in the long term, been successful in reestablishing the dominance of the AIOC, or at the very least destroying Iran’s political stability entirely thereby sending a message to the world that nationalization of private property was not acceptable, and that the sanctity of contract endured.
A major factor that made this plan unacceptable to the new superpower was that it would probably leave Iran politically and economically crippled. citation needed The cold-war mentality in the US viewed this possibility as extremely dangerous, as it could result in communist takeover. This (probably unrealistic) fear of communist takeover was played on by the British and Iranians to encourage US support. citation needed Eventually, Churchill prevailed and convinced the Eisenhower administration that they would better contain the communist threat by removing Mossadeq. These arguments were meant to refute the assertions that the TPAJAX was an entirely economically motivated conspiracy that was orchestrated by John and Alan Dulles with the help of Kermit Roosevelt. citation needed"
Therefore I've removed it.
If anyone has any citations linking Roosevelt to the supposed Oil related motivation of the coup, please feel free to post this back up. Or it could be incorporated into the existing TPAJAX article. Matt
There is some speculation that Kim Roosevelt may have been part of a British plot to maintain an anglophile alliance with the United States. The British company AIOC ( Anglo Iranian Oil Company) had a full monopoly on Iranian oil, but by 1951, Prime Minister Mossadegh had nationalized oil and removed British interests in the region. The British contacted the Truman administration to set up a coup, but they were not interested, as Mossadeq had been an anti-communist, and kept the Tudeh Party in place. However, in 1953 a new administration came to power and contacted MI-6 (British) to give their support for a coup. John Foster Dulles ( secretary of state from 1953-1961) and his younger brother Allen Dulles (CIA Director) came up with Operation Ajax, a plan giving a million dollars to Kermit Roosevelt to create a coup. Roosevelt began giving money to General Zahedi, who in turn distributed the money among his soldiers to ensure their loyalty. In 1953, Zahedi led tanks into Tehran and closed the Majlis (legislature) and removed Mossadegh from power.
This article is horribly riddled with run-on sentences! Don't mind me, just posting as a bookmark to remind me to come back to this page.-- Jersey Devil 09:31, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Isn't this guy notable for anything in his long life other than the coup that put the Shah back on the throne? Thats how the lead sentence and almost the entire article is taken up with it. Certainly it was important, but is that the only thing about him worthy of mention?-- Dudeman5685 ( talk) 01:42, 22 July 2008 (UTC)
John Perkins calls Kermit Roosevelt the first economic hitman in his book confessions of an economic hitman. I feel like that should be mentioned somewhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.207.106.181 ( talk) 22:15, 11 July 2011 (UTC)
First? consider selective enslavement of African rice farmers. Or Charles Beard's An Economic Interpretation for the Constitution of the United States.
both could be considered crimes equal due to scale to "hits" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:1C2:4E02:9580:D1D8:F84:B8B9:E66F ( talk) 23:06, 14 March 2021 (UTC)
I know Wiki articles should be taken with a grain of salt, but this... really?
We have these things called "Editors"; check them out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.87.108.232 ( talk) 11:47, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
As it stands, this content is mistitled. This article is most substantially an article about Operation Ajax.
Because of this misguided, redundant presentation of that other article's focused material, again here, this article fails to provide readers with an adequate picture of the title subject—who he was, his life, training, public service, etc., as a notable historic, public figure. Simply put, the article fails as encyclopedic content.
As such, three tags were placed,
Please feel free to discuss, but it appears that these issues are longstanding, and by tagging them, perhaps we can bring in newly interested editors, and so move the article toward being encyclopedic, and so a good WP article. Le Prof 71.201.62.200 ( talk) 04:26, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
First, in the section on Roosevelt writings, I replaced a URL-only source with the complete citation, including a link to a reliable reprint of the actual Pamphlet. Note, I removed the description of the pamphlet as "an anti-Zionist pamphlet" because this is an opinion/analysis that is WP:OR coming from an editor, and needs a source for such a description to appear in the encyclopedia.
Second, in the "Early career" section, a quote regarding the IAAA pamphlet attributed to Roosevelt was simply in error. The quote that appeared was not from Roosevelt (as indicated), nor in the source indicated, but was rather a statement appearing at the archive site of the Roosevelt pamphlet, and made by anon. archive.org archivist. Moreover, there is no Foreign Affairs article as suggested—based on searching, it appears Roosevelt never published in this periodical, and the quoted text does not appear in that periodical either. Hence, THE EARLIER APPEARING JOURNAL WAS INACCURATE AS A STATED SOURCE, AND THE ROOSEVELT LINK WAS NOT THE SOURCE OF THE INFORMATION APPEARING (QUOTED OR OTHERWISE). Simply put, the sentence as a whole had no basis that could be found, in the earlier cited link/source, or otherwise. It was replaced by similar descriptive text that is now accurate to the sources. Le Prof 71.201.62.200 ( talk) 15:48, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
First, note, that labeling a subsection based on its principle sourcing is non-standard and unacceptable; I was the one who did this, and expect its being edited out when the reality changes—when the section is newly sourced by an array of reliable, balanced or otherwise unbiased sources. Until the sourcing and balance are in line with wikipedia policy, I ask that this heading remain. (When it is not exclusively a "democracynow.com" perspective, change the subsection title, by all means.)
Second, I am changing the "too close to source tag" on this subsection, to a POV tag. I understand that the POV tag will draw editorial scrutiny to the section, and this is precisely what is needed. Cheers. Le Prof. 71.201.62.200 ( talk) 14:00, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
Both the infobox and the "personal" section refer to a "Kermit III". The later *refers* to a Kermit Roosevelt III, born April 7, 1938. The former *links* to a Kermit III who is this Kermit, Jr.'s grandson, although according to his CV (at https://www.law.upenn.edu/cf/faculty/krooseve/cv.pdf ), he does self-identify as a "III" — but he was born July 14, 1971, and so is clearly the grandson of this Kermit, Jr., and is specified as so on the Kermit Roosevelt disambiguation page. A little disambiguation might help? Was the first III actually a II, or have there really been two IIIs? MrRedwood ( talk) 08:49, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Kermit Roosevelt Jr.. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:12, 4 May 2017 (UTC)
This article should surely be an NPOV account of Kermit Roosevelt's efforts to advance US interests. And yet its replete with statements such as ...
What's that mean? Arab Americans were not putting the interests of the US first? If Kermit had been a patriotic American he'd not have been involved with "Arab Americans"?
What's that mean? American Jews and Christians had no business protesting what was rapidly becoming the eviction of 5/6ths of all the Christians of Israel?
What's that mean? Americans familiar with the ME were (and presumably are) not entitled to criticise US support for Israel?
What's that mean? The CIA and ARAMCO were anti-American engaged in Arabist propaganda, sabotaging US interests in the region? 86.140.150.40 ( talk) 18:40, 17 September 2017 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Words to watch#Contentious labels warns that terrorism is loaded language and should not be used unless explicitly described as such by reliable sources. @ 91.125.23.152 has asserted that Roosevelt's time in the CIA was a "terrorism career" by the literal definition of terrorism, and that Wikipedia is doing its readers a disservice not describing his participation in Operation Ajax and fomenting other CIA-sponsored coups as terrorism.
This has apparently been implicit consensus by silence as the section title §Cold War and CIA Terrorism and its seven mentions of "terrorism" have survived for over a month, although it was removed from the lead sentence. It is possible for a local consensus of editors to ignore the suggestions of the Manual of Style, or that editors with access to sources can find his actions being described as such.
Should the "terrorism" wording stay or be removed? 93 ( talk) 05:07, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
Pinging users with relevant edits or discussions: @ Yoshi24517, Binksternet, 143.208.236.146, 91.125.23.152, and Ljray92: 93 ( talk) 08:47, 18 March 2024 (UTC)