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There's really not an awful lot of tweaking which needs to be done! It would be a good idea to have the "Views and Controversy" section renamed to be just "Controversy", and put into that section anything bad that's been said about him in places like medical journals, mainstream media, and all the other places the detractors will usually hang out. It's important to ensure that we cover as much of the negative views as is fair (it comes under the "due weight" part of maintaining a neutral point of view). What this really means is that, for example, if 30% of the general run of thought is against him, for 70% for him, then really the article should have the same proportions - 30% of the anti-Holtorf views, and 70% of the pro-Holtorf, etc.
We need to keep the "Controversy" section for the "anti-Holtorf" material (see if you can find more instances of medical people saying "anti-Holtorf things", and if you can, name them and quote them, being sure to build in the references as you go).
It's best to keep Holtorf's defences against any detractors out of the Controversy section, otherwise it looks as though the article is trying to rebut the criticism - which is not our job! Our job is to give fair coverage to both sides, and let the reader make up their own minds.
Once we've made sure that we're giving due weight to both sides of the fence, then we need to include a bit about the controversy in the lead section, which is intended to give a précis of the whole article. I see Chzz has offered you some help (on your talk page) - he's very good, and a wonderful teacher. I've asked Sonia as well, and she says she'll be happy to chip in with some assistance.
Probably the final thing to do which will make the article much less promotional is to go through it and "weed out" where possible, any little words and phrases (which creep in to most articles!) which give away "which side the writer is on!"
Readers shouldn't be able to tell whether you, as a writer, are pro-Holtorf or anti-Holtorf. At the minute, it's very easy to tell, as the article reads like pro-Holtorf publicity material! This can all be fixed, and, in the end, it will be fine. Pesky ( talk … stalk!) 05:56, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
Thanks Pesky, that would be great! Zoeyeve ( talk) 23:20, 27 October 2011 (UTC) Pesky, I've combed through it, made a few more "tweaks". But I gotta say, I'm struggling to pinpoint the "little words and phrases" you spoke of, which creep in and give away my stance. I think maybe I've just been looking at this too long. Perhaps you or another admin/editor could give it a fresh take and list some examples that need to be changed. That should get me rolling. Thanks for all your help! Zoeyeve ( talk) 23:40, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
I think that the current page (July 7 2013) is quite slanted against Kent Holtorf and mis-represents his stated views and material he has published. It reads like a hit piece.
Opposing some H2N1 vaccines does not, in and of itself, indicate that a person is opposed to the general use of vaccines. The GSK produced vaccine had a squalene based adjuvant (AS01). It was administered in Canada. After several reports of a adverse events their health system ended it's use. Jackie Aldridge, Concord, CA
(I'll see if I can find some more possibly-useful pages later) Pesky ( talk … stalk!) 07:43, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
I cannot thank you all enough, Pesky, Sonia, Chzz, for all your help. I've followed your suggestions and cleaned it up further. Sonia, did I reformat those references right? Chzz said I need to ask you, Pesky, to make the article live once you feel it's ready. Take a look and let me know if we're there yet, or anything else I can do! Zoeyeve ( talk) 13:56, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
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This article was nominated for deletion on 26 November 2011 (UTC). The result of the discussion was keep. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
There's really not an awful lot of tweaking which needs to be done! It would be a good idea to have the "Views and Controversy" section renamed to be just "Controversy", and put into that section anything bad that's been said about him in places like medical journals, mainstream media, and all the other places the detractors will usually hang out. It's important to ensure that we cover as much of the negative views as is fair (it comes under the "due weight" part of maintaining a neutral point of view). What this really means is that, for example, if 30% of the general run of thought is against him, for 70% for him, then really the article should have the same proportions - 30% of the anti-Holtorf views, and 70% of the pro-Holtorf, etc.
We need to keep the "Controversy" section for the "anti-Holtorf" material (see if you can find more instances of medical people saying "anti-Holtorf things", and if you can, name them and quote them, being sure to build in the references as you go).
It's best to keep Holtorf's defences against any detractors out of the Controversy section, otherwise it looks as though the article is trying to rebut the criticism - which is not our job! Our job is to give fair coverage to both sides, and let the reader make up their own minds.
Once we've made sure that we're giving due weight to both sides of the fence, then we need to include a bit about the controversy in the lead section, which is intended to give a précis of the whole article. I see Chzz has offered you some help (on your talk page) - he's very good, and a wonderful teacher. I've asked Sonia as well, and she says she'll be happy to chip in with some assistance.
Probably the final thing to do which will make the article much less promotional is to go through it and "weed out" where possible, any little words and phrases (which creep in to most articles!) which give away "which side the writer is on!"
Readers shouldn't be able to tell whether you, as a writer, are pro-Holtorf or anti-Holtorf. At the minute, it's very easy to tell, as the article reads like pro-Holtorf publicity material! This can all be fixed, and, in the end, it will be fine. Pesky ( talk … stalk!) 05:56, 26 October 2011 (UTC)
Thanks Pesky, that would be great! Zoeyeve ( talk) 23:20, 27 October 2011 (UTC) Pesky, I've combed through it, made a few more "tweaks". But I gotta say, I'm struggling to pinpoint the "little words and phrases" you spoke of, which creep in and give away my stance. I think maybe I've just been looking at this too long. Perhaps you or another admin/editor could give it a fresh take and list some examples that need to be changed. That should get me rolling. Thanks for all your help! Zoeyeve ( talk) 23:40, 27 October 2011 (UTC)
I think that the current page (July 7 2013) is quite slanted against Kent Holtorf and mis-represents his stated views and material he has published. It reads like a hit piece.
Opposing some H2N1 vaccines does not, in and of itself, indicate that a person is opposed to the general use of vaccines. The GSK produced vaccine had a squalene based adjuvant (AS01). It was administered in Canada. After several reports of a adverse events their health system ended it's use. Jackie Aldridge, Concord, CA
(I'll see if I can find some more possibly-useful pages later) Pesky ( talk … stalk!) 07:43, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
I cannot thank you all enough, Pesky, Sonia, Chzz, for all your help. I've followed your suggestions and cleaned it up further. Sonia, did I reformat those references right? Chzz said I need to ask you, Pesky, to make the article live once you feel it's ready. Take a look and let me know if we're there yet, or anything else I can do! Zoeyeve ( talk) 13:56, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 4 external links on Kent Holtorf. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
{{
dead link}}
tag to
http://media.pituitary.org/newsletter/feb2011/articles.htmWhen you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 13:19, 4 May 2017 (UTC)