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Keir Starmer as Leader of the Opposition article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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![]() | Text and/or other creative content from Keir Starmer was copied or moved into Keir Starmer as Leader of the Opposition with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
![]() | On 5 July 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Keir Starmer's tenure as Leader of the Opposition to Keir Starmer as Leader of the Opposition. The result of the discussion was moved. |
Is there a reason why the Forde Report is covered in such detail on this page? Most of this section focuses on internal disputes during the Jeremy Corbyn era. I would say the only parts that seem relevant to Starmer's leadership would be that he commissioned the report and the part about anti-black racism at the end which seems slightly undue to me anyway. What are people's thoughts on its inclusion? Michaeldble ( talk) 15:54, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
Then again, if it is correct that Starmer promised to act on the Forde Report, are there any reason why the findings of the report should not be covered in detail? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.166.136 ( talk) 20:30, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
I am unsure why David Lammy is given a large image in the Gaza-Israel section solely for his support of LFI. It does not seem like a relevant, justifiable inclusion to me, and appears to be placed for the reader to reach to conclusions on their own rather than letting the facts speak for themselves.
Would the person who placed the image @Helper201 like to explain?
I do not have 500 edits so am uncomfortable making any edit myself regarding this contentious topic in this case. SoThisIsPeter ( talk) 16:56, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
Firstly, regarding the Overseas Operations (Service Personnel and Veterans) Bill, the following sentence was recently removed from the article:
Starmer ordered Labour MPs to abstain on the reading of the Overseas Operations (Service Personnel and Veterans) Bill, which, according to Jacobin, "effectively puts undercover state operatives beyond sanction"
The reason given was “The source does not substantiate that Starmer personally ordered abstentions. There are also no other secondary sources that justify the attention put on the Jacobin article”.
Firstly, if Keith did not order the abstentions then someone else must be pulling the strings at Labour. Given Keith’s authoritarian streak this seems unlikely. Anyway, I had a look at some other sources to see if they could shed light on the mystery behind who was giving the orders at Labour headquarters. I also wanted to see if the criticism of the Bill which appeared in the Jacobin article was also published elsewhere. Here are some results related to the Bill:
The following source from November 2020 mentions that Labour may have later changed its position on the Bill:
So what happened in the end? The Bill received Royal Assent on 29 April 2021 but is not mentioned again in this article.
Secondly, our treatment of the Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill also known as the Spycops Bill is incomplete. We mention that 34 MPs rebelled on its third reading but apparently a fortnight earlier 20 Labour MPs had rebelled at a second reading. Later, the party’s leadership refused to back a Lords amendment from Shami Chakrabarti. In this case there are plenty of sources which mention that Keith gave the order to abstain:
We should also inform the reader of the reasons Labour MP's voted against the Bill. E.g.
Burrobert ( talk) 14:10, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
Forgive me since I'm extremely new to editing Wikipedia, but I was thinking that Keir Starmer's decision to walk back the party's previous support of Gender self-identification should be covered here. This was made official in July:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-66299705
There has already been intra-party tension since 2018, but I'm struggling to find sources that aren't either self-published or opinion pieces. I don't know how far the scope should go regarding this topic, but since it is mentioned briefly on Anneliese Dodds's page, I think it's worth bringing up here too. Would appreciate help from a more experienced editor. BLACKCATFOXRABBIT ( talk) 22:12, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
I do not see the relevance of the three paragraph-long "Rishi Sunak attack ads" section [15] to an article on the Labour Party leadership of Keir Starmer. I propose to delete that section.-- Toddy1 (talk) 08:45, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
With the creation of the Political positions of Keir Starmer article recently by @ User:ThingsCanOnlyGetWetter, I was wondering whether it might be an idea to condense some of the 'Political positions' section on this article to avoid duplicating too much information. I'm not suggesting removing all of it as some is obviously relevant but I think some of it could be trimmed potentially. Thoughts? Michaeldble ( talk) 16:27, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
If Labour do win the election next week, there will presumably be a 'Premiership of Keir Starmer' article created. I was wondering what should happen to this article at that point - should it be renamed/what should it include? Should it only include his time as Leader of the Opposition and be renamed to reflect this or continue including info on his time as Leader of the Labour Party, including his time as PM as well? If it includes both, the article would likely become very long and duplicate info from elsewhere
I would personally prefer this article to be related to his time as LOTO to avoid duplicating too much info but what were other people's thoughts? Thanks Michaeldble ( talk) 10:27, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Moved to Keir Starmer as Leader of the Opposition ( closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal ( talk) 21:38, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
Keir Starmer's tenure as Leader of the Opposition → Opposition leadership of Keir Starmer – Sounds more formal and in line with the title of " Premiership of Keir Starmer". This title formatting can then be used as a basis for any future article like this as well. Omnis Scientia ( talk) 22:30, 5 July 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. The Night Watch (talk) 19:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Keir Starmer as Leader of the Opposition article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This article is written in British English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, defence, artefact, analyse) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
![]() | This page is about an active politician who is running for office or has recently run for office, is in office and campaigning for re-election, or is involved in some current political conflict or controversy. Because of this, this article is at increased risk of biased editing, talk-page trolling, and simple vandalism. |
![]() | This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | Text and/or other creative content from Keir Starmer was copied or moved into Keir Starmer as Leader of the Opposition with this edit. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. |
![]() | On 5 July 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved from Keir Starmer's tenure as Leader of the Opposition to Keir Starmer as Leader of the Opposition. The result of the discussion was moved. |
Is there a reason why the Forde Report is covered in such detail on this page? Most of this section focuses on internal disputes during the Jeremy Corbyn era. I would say the only parts that seem relevant to Starmer's leadership would be that he commissioned the report and the part about anti-black racism at the end which seems slightly undue to me anyway. What are people's thoughts on its inclusion? Michaeldble ( talk) 15:54, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
Then again, if it is correct that Starmer promised to act on the Forde Report, are there any reason why the findings of the report should not be covered in detail? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.166.136 ( talk) 20:30, 9 October 2023 (UTC)
I am unsure why David Lammy is given a large image in the Gaza-Israel section solely for his support of LFI. It does not seem like a relevant, justifiable inclusion to me, and appears to be placed for the reader to reach to conclusions on their own rather than letting the facts speak for themselves.
Would the person who placed the image @Helper201 like to explain?
I do not have 500 edits so am uncomfortable making any edit myself regarding this contentious topic in this case. SoThisIsPeter ( talk) 16:56, 14 January 2024 (UTC)
Firstly, regarding the Overseas Operations (Service Personnel and Veterans) Bill, the following sentence was recently removed from the article:
Starmer ordered Labour MPs to abstain on the reading of the Overseas Operations (Service Personnel and Veterans) Bill, which, according to Jacobin, "effectively puts undercover state operatives beyond sanction"
The reason given was “The source does not substantiate that Starmer personally ordered abstentions. There are also no other secondary sources that justify the attention put on the Jacobin article”.
Firstly, if Keith did not order the abstentions then someone else must be pulling the strings at Labour. Given Keith’s authoritarian streak this seems unlikely. Anyway, I had a look at some other sources to see if they could shed light on the mystery behind who was giving the orders at Labour headquarters. I also wanted to see if the criticism of the Bill which appeared in the Jacobin article was also published elsewhere. Here are some results related to the Bill:
The following source from November 2020 mentions that Labour may have later changed its position on the Bill:
So what happened in the end? The Bill received Royal Assent on 29 April 2021 but is not mentioned again in this article.
Secondly, our treatment of the Covert Human Intelligence Sources (Criminal Conduct) Bill also known as the Spycops Bill is incomplete. We mention that 34 MPs rebelled on its third reading but apparently a fortnight earlier 20 Labour MPs had rebelled at a second reading. Later, the party’s leadership refused to back a Lords amendment from Shami Chakrabarti. In this case there are plenty of sources which mention that Keith gave the order to abstain:
We should also inform the reader of the reasons Labour MP's voted against the Bill. E.g.
Burrobert ( talk) 14:10, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
Forgive me since I'm extremely new to editing Wikipedia, but I was thinking that Keir Starmer's decision to walk back the party's previous support of Gender self-identification should be covered here. This was made official in July:
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-66299705
There has already been intra-party tension since 2018, but I'm struggling to find sources that aren't either self-published or opinion pieces. I don't know how far the scope should go regarding this topic, but since it is mentioned briefly on Anneliese Dodds's page, I think it's worth bringing up here too. Would appreciate help from a more experienced editor. BLACKCATFOXRABBIT ( talk) 22:12, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
I do not see the relevance of the three paragraph-long "Rishi Sunak attack ads" section [15] to an article on the Labour Party leadership of Keir Starmer. I propose to delete that section.-- Toddy1 (talk) 08:45, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
With the creation of the Political positions of Keir Starmer article recently by @ User:ThingsCanOnlyGetWetter, I was wondering whether it might be an idea to condense some of the 'Political positions' section on this article to avoid duplicating too much information. I'm not suggesting removing all of it as some is obviously relevant but I think some of it could be trimmed potentially. Thoughts? Michaeldble ( talk) 16:27, 23 June 2024 (UTC)
If Labour do win the election next week, there will presumably be a 'Premiership of Keir Starmer' article created. I was wondering what should happen to this article at that point - should it be renamed/what should it include? Should it only include his time as Leader of the Opposition and be renamed to reflect this or continue including info on his time as Leader of the Labour Party, including his time as PM as well? If it includes both, the article would likely become very long and duplicate info from elsewhere
I would personally prefer this article to be related to his time as LOTO to avoid duplicating too much info but what were other people's thoughts? Thanks Michaeldble ( talk) 10:27, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: moved. Moved to Keir Starmer as Leader of the Opposition ( closed by non-admin page mover) BilledMammal ( talk) 21:38, 21 July 2024 (UTC)
Keir Starmer's tenure as Leader of the Opposition → Opposition leadership of Keir Starmer – Sounds more formal and in line with the title of " Premiership of Keir Starmer". This title formatting can then be used as a basis for any future article like this as well. Omnis Scientia ( talk) 22:30, 5 July 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. The Night Watch (talk) 19:17, 14 July 2024 (UTC)