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Hi guys, I know pretty much nothing about wrestling but would be interested to know at least some basic facts. I had a look at the kayfabe article and wasn't able to figure out how, and if, it differs from simply "acting". The issue is: if it's just acting then the article could be much shorter, and if it is something different I am not able to grasp that from the article. Is it just me? -- Gennaro Prota 17:04, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
I don't see any etymology of this term; unless I've missed it, maybe someone in the know could give it a try? 1canuckbuck ( talk) 11:16, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
A few weeks ago on RAW, Vince mentioned that Stephanie was pregnant. Isn't he breaking kayfabe when he says something like that? In the WWE world, Steph and HHH are divorced. So, what is she... knocked-up? In kayfabe, I mean. -Abdullah- 13:17, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Ragityman ( talk) 15:20, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
Maybe someone should re-word the part about Diesal and Razor Ramon. At the time Diesal was storyline wise a heel, and not a rival of Triple H(who was also a heel). TJ Spyke 19:03, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
On the subject of the opening paragaph, is it only me who finds the wording confusing? Surely it could be simplified in some way? -- SesameRambler 15:34, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Agreed, it's incomprehensible. - KR Nixa —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.181.143.97 ( talk) 06:33, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
What is this section: Translation of first paragraph, first reading? Could you do that in a sandbox? Anyway I think the first paragraph is better than the "translation".-- 77.87.49.30 ( talk) 16:58, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
Why is this annoying, ancient term being used to describe storyline events in nearly every wrestling article that Wikipedia has to offer? It's confusing to people who aren't "in the know" and just makes each article it appears in come off as though it was written by some smart-alecky wrestling fan (notice how I refrained from using the word "mark" there). Why don't we leave words like "kayfabe" where they belong: in the grave with the carnival managers who invented them in the early 1900s. It's 2009---can't we as wrestling fans be a little more normal, a little more "professional" when writing articles, instead of coming across as geeky in-the-know types? 209.62.199.144 ( talk) 18:51, 4 January 2009 (UTC)fdfdrdry
es innesesario poner todo lo que sea kayfabe , aun cuando ni siquiera se esta seguro oficialmente de una fuente directa que lo sea. de todas maneras poner a cada rato lo que es kayfabe y lo que no, no creo que sea necesario en un articulo. es como si quisieran desprestigiar la lucha.-- 181.160.33.205 ( talk) 00:11, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
There are two different meanings of the word "professional" to consider here: the first is maintaining a code of ethics, and the second is doing something for a living and not just as a hobby. Maintaining the professional image of wrestling is all about profit, not ethics. There's a reason professional wrestlers don't have an ethics committee or a fair arbitration system for disagreements.
Kayfaybe is relevant because kayfaybe truly *is* the entire world of pro wrestling. If all of professional wrestling went "absolutely 100% legit" tomorrow, the entire industry would quickly collapse.
The fact that it's show business and not legit wrestling is not important. The important part is to not get mixed up and start thinking that show business and legit wrestling are the same thing. TooManyFingers ( talk) 06:30, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
I'm aware the information contained in this article is accurate, but it needs to be sourced. Much of it seems like someone watched TV and transcribed what happened. I know that's not the case, in most of the instances, but that's why it needs to be sourced and the whole article could probably use a rewrite. -- Chicken monkey X sign? 07:30, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
This article says Danielson was suspended for strangling Justin Roberts with a camera wire. But another article says Roberts was strangled with his own tie. Which one's right? -- Shreek314 21:27, 9 September 2010 It was his tie. The video proves it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.251.94.170 ( talk) 19:42, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
This article is on the verge of being an example farm. It's also guilty of recentism, as far too many of the examples listed are from the past 10-15 years. Here's some more examples which aren't so recent, though:
Also, as of this day if not by 9 June 2011 or even before this date, there has been accrued a significant amount of information regarding Edge (Adam Copeland)-Lita (Amy Dumas) and Matt Hardy storyline that was based on a real-life love triangle resulting in breaking the kayfabe storyline "Lita-Kane" and replacing it with the "Edge-Lita vs Matt Hardy" one, having both storylines crossing paths at one point with Matt Hardy's worked attacks of Edge during or after his matches with Kane and other performers. There're vast sources and I may provide links if needed to warrant adding this feud as an example of breaking kayfabe and emergence of a new storyline caused by breaking kayfabe of the old one.
78.62.13.245 (
talk)
00:24, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
How about any similarities between kayfabe and fnord? RadioKAOS ( talk) 03:27, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
This article is almost word for word an exact copy of The Free Dictionary's 'kayfabe' article. Even the same words are hyperlinked! http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/kayfabe Tsk tsk ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.165.187.206 ( talk) 12:33, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
Isn´t it a break in kayfabe when matt striker appears at the stream of the press conference when he was kidnapped on nxt?-- Nakurio ( talk) 19:48, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Without kayfabe, you could never know and could never care what any of the pro wrestlers were hoping or thinking. They would just wrestle, and nobody would know a thing about them as people.
So when all the rivalries have completely disappeared (replaced by nothing), and nobody has even *heard* of any of the managers and promoters, and nobody cares who wins because they just want to see some top-quality wrestling, then you'll know kayfabe is gone. TooManyFingers ( talk) 07:03, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
Someone is vandalizing this article by adding a section about president Bush and his administration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.16.44 ( talk) 06:49, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
It seems an obvious omission, especially for what is otherwise a very detailed article. Can we have, preferably before the contents box, an explanation of the term's origin or sources? I read through far too much wrestling trivia just to establish that it wasn't there. Many thanks in advance. 60.242.50.195 ( talk) 13:47, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
The unique approach to kayfabe employed by Bill Watts could probably fill an entire article. I don't wish to waste my time throwing out numerous examples which will likely be ignored. My favorite: during the height of the Dick Murdoch- Killer Karl Kox feud in late 1975, Championship Wrestling aired an interview with Murdoch. He was standing in an All Japan Pro Wrestling ring, and specifically remarked that his absence from the Tri-States territory wasn't because he was injured, but rather that he was in Japan taking part in the tag team tournament with Dusty Rhodes. That went contrary to what every other promoter and booker at the time would have done. That promo had other ramifications: Murdoch was a highly popular "gaijin face" in All Japan, similar to Dory and Terry Funk. Kox appeared on multiple All Japan tours during 1976 with Murdoch, where they faced each other in matches. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 05:13, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
It appears that Kayfabe (professional wrestling) was moved to this article title in June 2005. Since I wasn't around then, I dunno if this was due to limitations of the software or due to negligence, but there is an orphaned revision history and accompanying discussion still floating around out there. Any admins reading this who may care to fix that? RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 03:53, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
Man, this article is the worst "example farm" I've seen in an article yet. I would just cut out a lot of it it myself, but I get the feeling that all the one-line mentions are more recent examples or are more notable than they are given credit for. Since I'm not a WWE fan myself, I can't really judge what's notable and what's not... But all but maybe two of the examples are uncited, so I suppose that someone should just be bold and excise most of it. -- V2Blast ( talk) 06:45, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
The lede claims that kayfabe was a closely guarded secret until 1989, and since the internet it has become an open secret. The citation it uses for the claim that it was a closely guarded secret DOES NOT actually say that it was a closely guarded secret before 1989, it only says that McMahon confessed "once and for all" before the New Jersey State Senate, that wrestling matches were staged events. "Once and for all" indicates the truth, that McMahon was only finally admitting to what everyone already knew for decades. For example, in Season 8, episode 11 of "You Bet Your Life," dated December 19, 1957, pro wrestler Ralph "Red" Berry asked Groucho Marx if he had ever been to a wrestling match, and Marx quipped "no, but I'd love to see one of your rehearsals sometime," to general laughter and applause. I am changing the last three sentences of the first paragraph of the lede to address this. Mmyers1976 ( talk) 19:25, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Exactly! All wrestling fans (except children and retards) know the action is scripted. Anyone who has been in any type of street fight or martial arts training, knows that the "combatants" are not seriously contending. Both sides pretend to take it seriously, so pro-wrestling becomes a theater of the absurd.
But I don't think that term "kayfabe" was not generally known to wrestling fandom until recently, at least I had never heard it.
Section " Injuries" says
"Usually" means "more often than not", so how can something else happen more often than what usually happens? Rewriting. Thnidu ( talk) 21:55, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but some of the stuff on this page is just laughable. The section about real life being mentioned on screen for instance. "Sheamus has been referred to as being from Ireland." Like seriously? How is this relevant to an article on kayfabe. Does this really need a section? And if there should be a section, only put IMPORANT / HISTORICAL facts in it. Not every single injury someone has in a match etc. "Adrian Neville was injured in a match in 2016". "Nikki Bella was injured in a match in 2015 but kept on wrestling". A lot of the info on this page is useless clutter. It's laughably bad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.45.80.71 ( talk) 15:15, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
I went ahead and made some major edits to this article, based off of the various discussions on this talk page. I primarily removed the large amount of unnecessary examples, and also removed large chunks of completely unsourced information. As I indicated in my edit summary, please do not revert any of these edits without first coming on here and explaining why a particular piece of what I removed should be restored. Thank you everyone. Bobharris1989 ( talk) 07:09, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
Maybe an interesting angle for the "Outside of Wrestling"-section. Are all the Hip-Hop "beefs" real? How much kayfabe is in this industry? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.112.116.93 ( talk) 08:25, 1 March 2020 (UTC)
![]() | This ![]() It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||
|
![]() | Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
![]() | This professional wrestling article is a frequent target for editors to add a week-by-week synopsis of storyline events, unconfirmed information, rumors, and other content inappropriate to an encyclopedic article. Please make sure to familiarize yourself with what Wikipedia is not, and consider whether your additions to this article will serve to make the article larger and harder to edit for style, clarity, and grammar. |
|
|
Hi guys, I know pretty much nothing about wrestling but would be interested to know at least some basic facts. I had a look at the kayfabe article and wasn't able to figure out how, and if, it differs from simply "acting". The issue is: if it's just acting then the article could be much shorter, and if it is something different I am not able to grasp that from the article. Is it just me? -- Gennaro Prota 17:04, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
I don't see any etymology of this term; unless I've missed it, maybe someone in the know could give it a try? 1canuckbuck ( talk) 11:16, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
A few weeks ago on RAW, Vince mentioned that Stephanie was pregnant. Isn't he breaking kayfabe when he says something like that? In the WWE world, Steph and HHH are divorced. So, what is she... knocked-up? In kayfabe, I mean. -Abdullah- 13:17, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Ragityman ( talk) 15:20, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
Maybe someone should re-word the part about Diesal and Razor Ramon. At the time Diesal was storyline wise a heel, and not a rival of Triple H(who was also a heel). TJ Spyke 19:03, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
On the subject of the opening paragaph, is it only me who finds the wording confusing? Surely it could be simplified in some way? -- SesameRambler 15:34, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
Agreed, it's incomprehensible. - KR Nixa —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.181.143.97 ( talk) 06:33, 18 December 2010 (UTC)
What is this section: Translation of first paragraph, first reading? Could you do that in a sandbox? Anyway I think the first paragraph is better than the "translation".-- 77.87.49.30 ( talk) 16:58, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
Why is this annoying, ancient term being used to describe storyline events in nearly every wrestling article that Wikipedia has to offer? It's confusing to people who aren't "in the know" and just makes each article it appears in come off as though it was written by some smart-alecky wrestling fan (notice how I refrained from using the word "mark" there). Why don't we leave words like "kayfabe" where they belong: in the grave with the carnival managers who invented them in the early 1900s. It's 2009---can't we as wrestling fans be a little more normal, a little more "professional" when writing articles, instead of coming across as geeky in-the-know types? 209.62.199.144 ( talk) 18:51, 4 January 2009 (UTC)fdfdrdry
es innesesario poner todo lo que sea kayfabe , aun cuando ni siquiera se esta seguro oficialmente de una fuente directa que lo sea. de todas maneras poner a cada rato lo que es kayfabe y lo que no, no creo que sea necesario en un articulo. es como si quisieran desprestigiar la lucha.-- 181.160.33.205 ( talk) 00:11, 24 May 2015 (UTC)
There are two different meanings of the word "professional" to consider here: the first is maintaining a code of ethics, and the second is doing something for a living and not just as a hobby. Maintaining the professional image of wrestling is all about profit, not ethics. There's a reason professional wrestlers don't have an ethics committee or a fair arbitration system for disagreements.
Kayfaybe is relevant because kayfaybe truly *is* the entire world of pro wrestling. If all of professional wrestling went "absolutely 100% legit" tomorrow, the entire industry would quickly collapse.
The fact that it's show business and not legit wrestling is not important. The important part is to not get mixed up and start thinking that show business and legit wrestling are the same thing. TooManyFingers ( talk) 06:30, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
I'm aware the information contained in this article is accurate, but it needs to be sourced. Much of it seems like someone watched TV and transcribed what happened. I know that's not the case, in most of the instances, but that's why it needs to be sourced and the whole article could probably use a rewrite. -- Chicken monkey X sign? 07:30, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
This article says Danielson was suspended for strangling Justin Roberts with a camera wire. But another article says Roberts was strangled with his own tie. Which one's right? -- Shreek314 21:27, 9 September 2010 It was his tie. The video proves it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.251.94.170 ( talk) 19:42, 5 October 2010 (UTC)
This article is on the verge of being an example farm. It's also guilty of recentism, as far too many of the examples listed are from the past 10-15 years. Here's some more examples which aren't so recent, though:
Also, as of this day if not by 9 June 2011 or even before this date, there has been accrued a significant amount of information regarding Edge (Adam Copeland)-Lita (Amy Dumas) and Matt Hardy storyline that was based on a real-life love triangle resulting in breaking the kayfabe storyline "Lita-Kane" and replacing it with the "Edge-Lita vs Matt Hardy" one, having both storylines crossing paths at one point with Matt Hardy's worked attacks of Edge during or after his matches with Kane and other performers. There're vast sources and I may provide links if needed to warrant adding this feud as an example of breaking kayfabe and emergence of a new storyline caused by breaking kayfabe of the old one.
78.62.13.245 (
talk)
00:24, 27 May 2020 (UTC)
How about any similarities between kayfabe and fnord? RadioKAOS ( talk) 03:27, 10 June 2011 (UTC)
This article is almost word for word an exact copy of The Free Dictionary's 'kayfabe' article. Even the same words are hyperlinked! http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/kayfabe Tsk tsk ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.165.187.206 ( talk) 12:33, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
Isn´t it a break in kayfabe when matt striker appears at the stream of the press conference when he was kidnapped on nxt?-- Nakurio ( talk) 19:48, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
Without kayfabe, you could never know and could never care what any of the pro wrestlers were hoping or thinking. They would just wrestle, and nobody would know a thing about them as people.
So when all the rivalries have completely disappeared (replaced by nothing), and nobody has even *heard* of any of the managers and promoters, and nobody cares who wins because they just want to see some top-quality wrestling, then you'll know kayfabe is gone. TooManyFingers ( talk) 07:03, 29 September 2020 (UTC)
Someone is vandalizing this article by adding a section about president Bush and his administration. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.16.44 ( talk) 06:49, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
It seems an obvious omission, especially for what is otherwise a very detailed article. Can we have, preferably before the contents box, an explanation of the term's origin or sources? I read through far too much wrestling trivia just to establish that it wasn't there. Many thanks in advance. 60.242.50.195 ( talk) 13:47, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
The unique approach to kayfabe employed by Bill Watts could probably fill an entire article. I don't wish to waste my time throwing out numerous examples which will likely be ignored. My favorite: during the height of the Dick Murdoch- Killer Karl Kox feud in late 1975, Championship Wrestling aired an interview with Murdoch. He was standing in an All Japan Pro Wrestling ring, and specifically remarked that his absence from the Tri-States territory wasn't because he was injured, but rather that he was in Japan taking part in the tag team tournament with Dusty Rhodes. That went contrary to what every other promoter and booker at the time would have done. That promo had other ramifications: Murdoch was a highly popular "gaijin face" in All Japan, similar to Dory and Terry Funk. Kox appeared on multiple All Japan tours during 1976 with Murdoch, where they faced each other in matches. RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 05:13, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
It appears that Kayfabe (professional wrestling) was moved to this article title in June 2005. Since I wasn't around then, I dunno if this was due to limitations of the software or due to negligence, but there is an orphaned revision history and accompanying discussion still floating around out there. Any admins reading this who may care to fix that? RadioKAOS / Talk to me, Billy / Transmissions 03:53, 22 November 2013 (UTC)
Man, this article is the worst "example farm" I've seen in an article yet. I would just cut out a lot of it it myself, but I get the feeling that all the one-line mentions are more recent examples or are more notable than they are given credit for. Since I'm not a WWE fan myself, I can't really judge what's notable and what's not... But all but maybe two of the examples are uncited, so I suppose that someone should just be bold and excise most of it. -- V2Blast ( talk) 06:45, 16 January 2015 (UTC)
The lede claims that kayfabe was a closely guarded secret until 1989, and since the internet it has become an open secret. The citation it uses for the claim that it was a closely guarded secret DOES NOT actually say that it was a closely guarded secret before 1989, it only says that McMahon confessed "once and for all" before the New Jersey State Senate, that wrestling matches were staged events. "Once and for all" indicates the truth, that McMahon was only finally admitting to what everyone already knew for decades. For example, in Season 8, episode 11 of "You Bet Your Life," dated December 19, 1957, pro wrestler Ralph "Red" Berry asked Groucho Marx if he had ever been to a wrestling match, and Marx quipped "no, but I'd love to see one of your rehearsals sometime," to general laughter and applause. I am changing the last three sentences of the first paragraph of the lede to address this. Mmyers1976 ( talk) 19:25, 21 January 2015 (UTC)
Exactly! All wrestling fans (except children and retards) know the action is scripted. Anyone who has been in any type of street fight or martial arts training, knows that the "combatants" are not seriously contending. Both sides pretend to take it seriously, so pro-wrestling becomes a theater of the absurd.
But I don't think that term "kayfabe" was not generally known to wrestling fandom until recently, at least I had never heard it.
Section " Injuries" says
"Usually" means "more often than not", so how can something else happen more often than what usually happens? Rewriting. Thnidu ( talk) 21:55, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but some of the stuff on this page is just laughable. The section about real life being mentioned on screen for instance. "Sheamus has been referred to as being from Ireland." Like seriously? How is this relevant to an article on kayfabe. Does this really need a section? And if there should be a section, only put IMPORANT / HISTORICAL facts in it. Not every single injury someone has in a match etc. "Adrian Neville was injured in a match in 2016". "Nikki Bella was injured in a match in 2015 but kept on wrestling". A lot of the info on this page is useless clutter. It's laughably bad. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.45.80.71 ( talk) 15:15, 29 August 2016 (UTC)
I went ahead and made some major edits to this article, based off of the various discussions on this talk page. I primarily removed the large amount of unnecessary examples, and also removed large chunks of completely unsourced information. As I indicated in my edit summary, please do not revert any of these edits without first coming on here and explaining why a particular piece of what I removed should be restored. Thank you everyone. Bobharris1989 ( talk) 07:09, 26 January 2017 (UTC)
Maybe an interesting angle for the "Outside of Wrestling"-section. Are all the Hip-Hop "beefs" real? How much kayfabe is in this industry? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.112.116.93 ( talk) 08:25, 1 March 2020 (UTC)