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Kayan has siturated in the sharing borthar of Mandalay division, Kayah State, Karen state and Mainly, Shan state as well.
I think this article needs some more citations, because it overturns some popular beliefs about these women and their neck rings. I've always believed that they do lengthen the neck, which seems plausible through stretching of the discs/connective tissue, and I've also heard on numerous occasions that a woman would die if her neck were very elongated and the rings were removed. Of course, I don't have citations either, so I'll defer to the writer since he/she seems knowledgeable on the subject. 208.22.45.148 20:38, 10 August 2007 (UTC)sw
I think that would make changing the rings pretty much impossible. The people I heard that from were feminists, and I suspect they had an agenda. Mad Gouki 22:37, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
[ This image] shows an x-ray of woman's neck before and after stretching, although I haven't read the full article of [ the site I got it from]. Also, further online researching indicates that ring removal doesn't kill them initially but makes it so they have to lay down for life or else risk neck breaking. I lost these website and don't thus can't reflect back how reliable they were. I first read about ring removal deaths in an issue of Ripley's believe it or not. --Is this fact... ? 03:15, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
I read a book, "From the Land of Green Ghosts", it's a autobiographical novel from the author Pascal Khoo Thwe, who's a Padaung himself. He tells about his grandma who removes her neckrings, she doesn't need to lie down the rest of her life, the women who remove the rings need some rest to adjust the muscles in their necks so they can support the head on their own again. He also says that only women born on certain days are quallified to wear the rings. 85.147.2.51 ( talk) 21:23, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
A French link: http://www.djparadisetour.com/MaeHongSon/fsecret.html -- 84.171.89.162 ( talk) 17:04, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
This is the single worst Wikipedia article I've ever read! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.143.87.39 ( talk) 07:36, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
It is correct that the coils give some protection...This statement is used twice in the opening of this article, and is it really possible for the neck-rings to give protections from tigers? And even if so, since it obviously isn't the true purpose of the rings, why is it notable? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.10.117.195 ( talk) 14:19, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
77.181.208.117 (
talk) 09:09, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
The grammar on this page is terrible. The facts seem a bit...odd. Almost like it was written by someone with an elementary-level grasp of English. Needs to be rewritten. 128.82.58.211 ( talk) 11:17, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
Just came across this article checking out something for my daughter and was interested to note that it refers to Kayan as a tribe - this conflicts with http://www.hottnez.com/giraffe-women-secret-of-neck-rings/ which suggests Karen and Paudung are tribes but Kayan a religion observed by females in those tribes. This area is not a speciality of mine but FWIW thought I would add this into the melting pot. DaveK@BTC ( talk) 12:50, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
I moved this page back to Kayan, after it had been moved to Long Neck Karen by user Haabet for the bizarre reason that "Kayan is not English". If there is some rule on wikipedia that says all page titles must be in English, then I have never seen it. Furthermore, I find the title "Long Necked Karen" rather insensitive. I respectfully request that if Haabet or anyone else sees a reason to move the page again then they bring it up on this talk page first. Zainker ( talk) 22:53, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
John Blundell ( talk) 07:44, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
The X-Ray cited as showing how the ribs and clavicle are deformed over time by the neck rings would appear to be a photoshop job. Unless the subject had a letter "R" continually floating over her shoulder? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.242.93.239 ( talk) 18:22, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
I've been confused by the grouping and names of the Karen tribes. Is the following anthropological grouping (my best attempt at understanding) correct? Are there scholarly sources supporting alternate views?
I've deleted an unsourced edit (equating Karen, Kayan and Padaung) that introduced confusion.-- Palaeovia talk 11:31, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
It seems that anthropologists consider Karenni a subgroup of Karen, while in official Burmese nomenclature, Karen (Kayin) means "all Karen groups, except Karenni." This means that Karen has two distinct meanings in two contexts: anthropological and governmental-statistical. If this is so, it should be made explicit.-- Palaeovia talk 10:56, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
I deleted the following meaningless or ambiguous text:
It may be restored after its meaning is clarified, sourced and rephrased in correct English.-- Palaeovia talk 23:27, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
Kayan = Padaung. Kayan is Padaung in Burman and English, but originally is word "Kayan" is Karén in Padaung. Kayan/Padaung. Kayaw/Bré in the same way "Kayaw" is Karén in Bré.Haabet 00:35, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
"Giraffe women"?? Seriously? That sounds so disparaging, patronizing, wrong. Surely they do not call themselves "giraffe women", and I can't imagine a serious textbook on history, culture, or anthropology that would use such a term. Let's figure out the best ethnic term for this group, and use it for the article title. Boneyard90 ( talk) 21:57, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
I have cleaned up many ungrammatical, unsourced, and derogatory edits by user: Haabet, and proposed restoring the original title of "Kayan people (Burma)." (see next section)-- Palaeovia talk 00:42, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
For the record, the following message is found on User Talk:Haabet (see here):
User:Haabet has a habit of injecting incomprehensible texts into this article.-- Palaeovia talk 23:45, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Giraffe women (Burma and Thailand) → Kayan people (Burma) – Current title is inappropriate (article is about an ethnic group, not its women only), nonstandard, and derogatory. Propose to move back to original title Palaeovia talk 01:37, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Support. This needs to be G6-ed, pronto. We can't use a racial insult as the title of an article about the people who are the target of the insult. The title should be Kayan (Burma). Kauffner ( talk) 07:28, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Support, in favor of Kayan (Burma). The present title is derogatory, it should be classified as vandalism, and there should be action taken against the editor who made the move. Boneyard90 ( talk) 09:12, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Support move, though I wouldn't classify this as vandalism, it's definitely not the right title. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 13:55, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Comment I don't think this requires an RM discussion - you're basically moving it back to a pre-June 2011 title - away from a derogatory, inappropriate one. ( talk→ BWilkins ←track) 15:34, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
The article is still misnamed. It is about all six of the Burmese Kayan tribes, not only Kayan Lahwi. Kauffner ( talk) 23:46, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
I suggest that user:Haabet be penalized for disruptive editing as he has just now redirected Kayan (Burma) to Padaung, showing his defiance.-- Palaeovia talk 02:46, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
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Kayan has siturated in the sharing borthar of Mandalay division, Kayah State, Karen state and Mainly, Shan state as well.
I think this article needs some more citations, because it overturns some popular beliefs about these women and their neck rings. I've always believed that they do lengthen the neck, which seems plausible through stretching of the discs/connective tissue, and I've also heard on numerous occasions that a woman would die if her neck were very elongated and the rings were removed. Of course, I don't have citations either, so I'll defer to the writer since he/she seems knowledgeable on the subject. 208.22.45.148 20:38, 10 August 2007 (UTC)sw
I think that would make changing the rings pretty much impossible. The people I heard that from were feminists, and I suspect they had an agenda. Mad Gouki 22:37, 2 September 2007 (UTC)
[ This image] shows an x-ray of woman's neck before and after stretching, although I haven't read the full article of [ the site I got it from]. Also, further online researching indicates that ring removal doesn't kill them initially but makes it so they have to lay down for life or else risk neck breaking. I lost these website and don't thus can't reflect back how reliable they were. I first read about ring removal deaths in an issue of Ripley's believe it or not. --Is this fact... ? 03:15, 2 December 2007 (UTC)
I read a book, "From the Land of Green Ghosts", it's a autobiographical novel from the author Pascal Khoo Thwe, who's a Padaung himself. He tells about his grandma who removes her neckrings, she doesn't need to lie down the rest of her life, the women who remove the rings need some rest to adjust the muscles in their necks so they can support the head on their own again. He also says that only women born on certain days are quallified to wear the rings. 85.147.2.51 ( talk) 21:23, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
A French link: http://www.djparadisetour.com/MaeHongSon/fsecret.html -- 84.171.89.162 ( talk) 17:04, 23 February 2008 (UTC)
This is the single worst Wikipedia article I've ever read! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.143.87.39 ( talk) 07:36, 21 September 2008 (UTC)
It is correct that the coils give some protection...This statement is used twice in the opening of this article, and is it really possible for the neck-rings to give protections from tigers? And even if so, since it obviously isn't the true purpose of the rings, why is it notable? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.10.117.195 ( talk) 14:19, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
77.181.208.117 (
talk) 09:09, 9 October 2008 (UTC)
The grammar on this page is terrible. The facts seem a bit...odd. Almost like it was written by someone with an elementary-level grasp of English. Needs to be rewritten. 128.82.58.211 ( talk) 11:17, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
Just came across this article checking out something for my daughter and was interested to note that it refers to Kayan as a tribe - this conflicts with http://www.hottnez.com/giraffe-women-secret-of-neck-rings/ which suggests Karen and Paudung are tribes but Kayan a religion observed by females in those tribes. This area is not a speciality of mine but FWIW thought I would add this into the melting pot. DaveK@BTC ( talk) 12:50, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
I moved this page back to Kayan, after it had been moved to Long Neck Karen by user Haabet for the bizarre reason that "Kayan is not English". If there is some rule on wikipedia that says all page titles must be in English, then I have never seen it. Furthermore, I find the title "Long Necked Karen" rather insensitive. I respectfully request that if Haabet or anyone else sees a reason to move the page again then they bring it up on this talk page first. Zainker ( talk) 22:53, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
John Blundell ( talk) 07:44, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
The X-Ray cited as showing how the ribs and clavicle are deformed over time by the neck rings would appear to be a photoshop job. Unless the subject had a letter "R" continually floating over her shoulder? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.242.93.239 ( talk) 18:22, 7 February 2009 (UTC)
I've been confused by the grouping and names of the Karen tribes. Is the following anthropological grouping (my best attempt at understanding) correct? Are there scholarly sources supporting alternate views?
I've deleted an unsourced edit (equating Karen, Kayan and Padaung) that introduced confusion.-- Palaeovia talk 11:31, 24 June 2010 (UTC)
It seems that anthropologists consider Karenni a subgroup of Karen, while in official Burmese nomenclature, Karen (Kayin) means "all Karen groups, except Karenni." This means that Karen has two distinct meanings in two contexts: anthropological and governmental-statistical. If this is so, it should be made explicit.-- Palaeovia talk 10:56, 25 June 2010 (UTC)
I deleted the following meaningless or ambiguous text:
It may be restored after its meaning is clarified, sourced and rephrased in correct English.-- Palaeovia talk 23:27, 19 July 2010 (UTC)
Kayan = Padaung. Kayan is Padaung in Burman and English, but originally is word "Kayan" is Karén in Padaung. Kayan/Padaung. Kayaw/Bré in the same way "Kayaw" is Karén in Bré.Haabet 00:35, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
"Giraffe women"?? Seriously? That sounds so disparaging, patronizing, wrong. Surely they do not call themselves "giraffe women", and I can't imagine a serious textbook on history, culture, or anthropology that would use such a term. Let's figure out the best ethnic term for this group, and use it for the article title. Boneyard90 ( talk) 21:57, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
I have cleaned up many ungrammatical, unsourced, and derogatory edits by user: Haabet, and proposed restoring the original title of "Kayan people (Burma)." (see next section)-- Palaeovia talk 00:42, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
For the record, the following message is found on User Talk:Haabet (see here):
User:Haabet has a habit of injecting incomprehensible texts into this article.-- Palaeovia talk 23:45, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Giraffe women (Burma and Thailand) → Kayan people (Burma) – Current title is inappropriate (article is about an ethnic group, not its women only), nonstandard, and derogatory. Propose to move back to original title Palaeovia talk 01:37, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Support. This needs to be G6-ed, pronto. We can't use a racial insult as the title of an article about the people who are the target of the insult. The title should be Kayan (Burma). Kauffner ( talk) 07:28, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Support, in favor of Kayan (Burma). The present title is derogatory, it should be classified as vandalism, and there should be action taken against the editor who made the move. Boneyard90 ( talk) 09:12, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Support move, though I wouldn't classify this as vandalism, it's definitely not the right title. The Blade of the Northern Lights ( 話して下さい) 13:55, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Comment I don't think this requires an RM discussion - you're basically moving it back to a pre-June 2011 title - away from a derogatory, inappropriate one. ( talk→ BWilkins ←track) 15:34, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
The article is still misnamed. It is about all six of the Burmese Kayan tribes, not only Kayan Lahwi. Kauffner ( talk) 23:46, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
I suggest that user:Haabet be penalized for disruptive editing as he has just now redirected Kayan (Burma) to Padaung, showing his defiance.-- Palaeovia talk 02:46, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
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