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Archive 1 |
Anyone actually reading the grammar in this article? The whole thing looks like it was written by a 4th grader. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmc22388 ( talk • contribs) 23:52, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Any details on how the guy got hold of some acid that strong in the first place? -- Cybercobra (talk) 11:34, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
The abbreviation "MMA" is used in this article without any definition. I think it would help readers if the definition were indeed provided. Hughesdavidw ( talk) 11:53, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
please try to find information that confirms it. i know for a fact that she appeared there because i saw the show myself right after the documentary. i suggest checking the website tv2.no. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.8.180.111 ( talk) 23:24, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
Did anyone (particularly Lynch himself) ever discuss the possible motivation for Lynch to want to attack her with acid? It seems like a sort of revenge thing (one of the refs says 'vengeful') but it's not clear why Lynch felt he needed revenge. Did he think she had reported him to the police over the rape? Was he angry that she had somewhat broken up with him after the rape? Did he just hate her because she was beautiful/a woman/whatever? He may be 'deranged' as one of the refs says but I do wonder what on earth was going on in his censored for BLP reasons mind Nil Einne ( talk) 00:45, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
Apparently, the relationship they had has many aspects in common with Stalking. I think that it would be helpful to mention the concept and the danger of stalking in the article. Stalkers often attack or even murder victims that they can't possess. Many victims rationalize and excuse about their behaviour and are not arare about the danger to their life. -- 84.135.68.189 ( talk) 21:07, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
I see your point, the control aspect seems to overlap somewhat, but without any actual account of any stalking, it would out of place here. More relevant perhaps is evidence that a woman is in most danger when a scorned lover realizes the relationship is truly over, as detailed in the book Erased. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.210.33.203 ( talk) 08:10, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Not sure what if any of this belongs in the article at this point, but it is a record of the facebook conversation between Katie and Danny Lynch just prior to the second attack.
-March 29, 6:18pm - Danny Lynch:
-March 29, 6:24pm - Katie Piper:
-March 29, 6:41pm - Danny Lynch:
ProfJustice ( talk) 10:54, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
We seem to have a revert war going her over inclusion of the racial identity of Daniel Lynch. I can appreciate there may be a difference of opinion on whether this is relevant. I would argue that it IS relevant. This attack was clearly a continuation of the physical abuse precipitated by the sexual rejection of Lynch and subsequent rape of Piper by Lynch. The reason the race of the aggressor is relevant is because there is a profound statistical correlation between the frequency of rape and the race of the atttacker/victim. Interracial rape is now overwhelmingly black on white. Based on the FBI's national records on crime, Dr. William Wilbanks, a criminologist at Florida International University, found that in 1988 there were 9,406 cases of black-on-white rape and fewer than ten cases of white-on-black rape. [William Wilbanks, “Frequency and Nature of Interracial Crimes,” submitted for publication to the Justice Professional (November 7, 1990). Data derived from Department of Justice, Criminal Victimization in the United States, 1987, p. 53.] Another researcher concludes that in 1989, blacks were three or four times more likely to commit rape than whites, and that black men raped white women thirty times as often as white men raped black women. [Andrew Hacker, Two Nations, pp. 183, 185.]
Granted these data are for US statistics, but similar trends are seen in crime rates based on race in European countries "figures showed that the majority of males who were accused of violent and sexual crimes (including those subsequently acquitted) in 2009–10 were black." Race and crime in the United Kingdom
To illustrate the point by analogy, consider the following example.
Pitbulls are 100 times more likely to attack a child than any other breed of dog. A child is attacked and killed by a dog. Is it relevant to note the breed of dog that committed the attack was a pitbull? Of course it is. (Note I am not saying this is an actual statistic regarding pitbulls, it's a hypothetical example.)
I can not see any reason this information should be excluded from the article, except that some editors would like it supressed for various ideological reasons related to bias. In such cases, we should error on the side of inclusion of information, rather than of censoring it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ProfJustice ( talk • contribs) 19:52, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Clearly there is a disagreement here as to whether the race of the attacker is relevant. I think it is for the reasons I've given. I've yet to see the cogent rebuttal, but even if one is forthcoming, this is a point where reasonable people may disagree. Therefore, we should include the information - this is consistent with the basic tenant/bias of wikipedia toward inclusion of information. Let the readers decide for themselves if they think it is relevant. This is not some lengthy paragraph that might detract from the quality of the article - this is an attempt to suppress a fact by those who would prefer it not appear in the article. I feel the onus is upon those who would like to suppress it to give a valid reason (beyond their opinion re:relevance). ProfJustice ( talk) 22:57, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
In the article it says "Sylvestre approached Piper, with his hood up and holding a paper coffee cup". Now i might be wrong on this, but surely a paper coffee cup would not be able to hold sulphuric acid of the concentration he was carrying. Isn't it more likely he would be carrying it with a silicone based holder (i.e. a mug or a glass)?
You are wrong, a wax coated paper cup would likely suffice.
Secondly, are there any details on how was convinced to by Lynch to carry out the attack? And how the police identified him as the attacker (you can't really make out his face in the CCTV footage). Ucl1986 ( talk) 10:57, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1351435/Acid-attack-victim-Katie-Piper-attacked-going-boy-met-Facebook.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.174.108.74 ( talk) 13:16, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Considering that the drastic change in appearance of Mrs. Piper are mostly the reason why she became renown, I can't but question myself for why there's no image of her before and after the attack. I'm not a very involved editor, so I guessed it might be because of the property rights of the image, and I just don't want to mess with that kind of stuff. But looking how far-off went the debate over such a minor issue with little matter to the actual case, as it's the race of the aggressor, that could've also been resolved by adding his picture (as pointing the actual individual rather than exacerbating a particular trait of him is much more informative and transparent), or even making him his own article. The case didn't stopped at Mrs. Piper, sort of speaking, later on, he disregarded the damage he did to Katie when chatting with her on facebook, later he seduced a prison guard with whom he kept a certain relationship, and got even called "the face of pure evil". A seductive, whimsy, irresponsible criminal with little hold for the consequences of his actions. -- G0parra ( talk) 04:39, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
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![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 |
Anyone actually reading the grammar in this article? The whole thing looks like it was written by a 4th grader. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmc22388 ( talk • contribs) 23:52, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
Any details on how the guy got hold of some acid that strong in the first place? -- Cybercobra (talk) 11:34, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
The abbreviation "MMA" is used in this article without any definition. I think it would help readers if the definition were indeed provided. Hughesdavidw ( talk) 11:53, 14 July 2010 (UTC)
please try to find information that confirms it. i know for a fact that she appeared there because i saw the show myself right after the documentary. i suggest checking the website tv2.no. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.8.180.111 ( talk) 23:24, 3 November 2010 (UTC)
Did anyone (particularly Lynch himself) ever discuss the possible motivation for Lynch to want to attack her with acid? It seems like a sort of revenge thing (one of the refs says 'vengeful') but it's not clear why Lynch felt he needed revenge. Did he think she had reported him to the police over the rape? Was he angry that she had somewhat broken up with him after the rape? Did he just hate her because she was beautiful/a woman/whatever? He may be 'deranged' as one of the refs says but I do wonder what on earth was going on in his censored for BLP reasons mind Nil Einne ( talk) 00:45, 15 July 2010 (UTC)
Apparently, the relationship they had has many aspects in common with Stalking. I think that it would be helpful to mention the concept and the danger of stalking in the article. Stalkers often attack or even murder victims that they can't possess. Many victims rationalize and excuse about their behaviour and are not arare about the danger to their life. -- 84.135.68.189 ( talk) 21:07, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
I see your point, the control aspect seems to overlap somewhat, but without any actual account of any stalking, it would out of place here. More relevant perhaps is evidence that a woman is in most danger when a scorned lover realizes the relationship is truly over, as detailed in the book Erased. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.210.33.203 ( talk) 08:10, 2 April 2012 (UTC)
Not sure what if any of this belongs in the article at this point, but it is a record of the facebook conversation between Katie and Danny Lynch just prior to the second attack.
-March 29, 6:18pm - Danny Lynch:
-March 29, 6:24pm - Katie Piper:
-March 29, 6:41pm - Danny Lynch:
ProfJustice ( talk) 10:54, 7 April 2012 (UTC)
We seem to have a revert war going her over inclusion of the racial identity of Daniel Lynch. I can appreciate there may be a difference of opinion on whether this is relevant. I would argue that it IS relevant. This attack was clearly a continuation of the physical abuse precipitated by the sexual rejection of Lynch and subsequent rape of Piper by Lynch. The reason the race of the aggressor is relevant is because there is a profound statistical correlation between the frequency of rape and the race of the atttacker/victim. Interracial rape is now overwhelmingly black on white. Based on the FBI's national records on crime, Dr. William Wilbanks, a criminologist at Florida International University, found that in 1988 there were 9,406 cases of black-on-white rape and fewer than ten cases of white-on-black rape. [William Wilbanks, “Frequency and Nature of Interracial Crimes,” submitted for publication to the Justice Professional (November 7, 1990). Data derived from Department of Justice, Criminal Victimization in the United States, 1987, p. 53.] Another researcher concludes that in 1989, blacks were three or four times more likely to commit rape than whites, and that black men raped white women thirty times as often as white men raped black women. [Andrew Hacker, Two Nations, pp. 183, 185.]
Granted these data are for US statistics, but similar trends are seen in crime rates based on race in European countries "figures showed that the majority of males who were accused of violent and sexual crimes (including those subsequently acquitted) in 2009–10 were black." Race and crime in the United Kingdom
To illustrate the point by analogy, consider the following example.
Pitbulls are 100 times more likely to attack a child than any other breed of dog. A child is attacked and killed by a dog. Is it relevant to note the breed of dog that committed the attack was a pitbull? Of course it is. (Note I am not saying this is an actual statistic regarding pitbulls, it's a hypothetical example.)
I can not see any reason this information should be excluded from the article, except that some editors would like it supressed for various ideological reasons related to bias. In such cases, we should error on the side of inclusion of information, rather than of censoring it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ProfJustice ( talk • contribs) 19:52, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
Clearly there is a disagreement here as to whether the race of the attacker is relevant. I think it is for the reasons I've given. I've yet to see the cogent rebuttal, but even if one is forthcoming, this is a point where reasonable people may disagree. Therefore, we should include the information - this is consistent with the basic tenant/bias of wikipedia toward inclusion of information. Let the readers decide for themselves if they think it is relevant. This is not some lengthy paragraph that might detract from the quality of the article - this is an attempt to suppress a fact by those who would prefer it not appear in the article. I feel the onus is upon those who would like to suppress it to give a valid reason (beyond their opinion re:relevance). ProfJustice ( talk) 22:57, 17 April 2012 (UTC)
In the article it says "Sylvestre approached Piper, with his hood up and holding a paper coffee cup". Now i might be wrong on this, but surely a paper coffee cup would not be able to hold sulphuric acid of the concentration he was carrying. Isn't it more likely he would be carrying it with a silicone based holder (i.e. a mug or a glass)?
You are wrong, a wax coated paper cup would likely suffice.
Secondly, are there any details on how was convinced to by Lynch to carry out the attack? And how the police identified him as the attacker (you can't really make out his face in the CCTV footage). Ucl1986 ( talk) 10:57, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1351435/Acid-attack-victim-Katie-Piper-attacked-going-boy-met-Facebook.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.174.108.74 ( talk) 13:16, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Considering that the drastic change in appearance of Mrs. Piper are mostly the reason why she became renown, I can't but question myself for why there's no image of her before and after the attack. I'm not a very involved editor, so I guessed it might be because of the property rights of the image, and I just don't want to mess with that kind of stuff. But looking how far-off went the debate over such a minor issue with little matter to the actual case, as it's the race of the aggressor, that could've also been resolved by adding his picture (as pointing the actual individual rather than exacerbating a particular trait of him is much more informative and transparent), or even making him his own article. The case didn't stopped at Mrs. Piper, sort of speaking, later on, he disregarded the damage he did to Katie when chatting with her on facebook, later he seduced a prison guard with whom he kept a certain relationship, and got even called "the face of pure evil". A seductive, whimsy, irresponsible criminal with little hold for the consequences of his actions. -- G0parra ( talk) 04:39, 28 January 2013 (UTC)
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