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I noticed today that this page lists only one source for a Katha translation, something from a US-based press in Bloomington, Indiana, but does not list additional translations -- not even such classics as by Radhakrishnan (except for an external link to a Paramanda translation). In contrast, I noticed that the page for the Isha Upanishad lists a variety of translations. Therefore I am adding some additional translations to bring this page more in line with the Isha page style. Not all of these translations may be equally scholarly, but that does not strike me as a sole criterion of interest for translations (that is, readers may seek scholarly translations for scholarly purposes, and other types of translations -- e.g., reflecting particular perspectives, sources of inspiration, or needs -- from other sources). No doubt readers would also be well-served by an impartial discussion of the (alleged or, better, verifiable) qualities of the various translations. We wouldn't want an infintely long list (how many translations are there?), but as a reader of the page, I can say that I myself would certainly want to be told about more than 1 or 2 translations. So these additions may not be perfect, but at least listing multiple translations seems like a step in the right direction -- so I am doing it (Please offer clear explanations of your reasoning if you disagree -- Thanks!). Health Researcher ( talk) 01:44, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Hi All
There is an article in the name Nachiketa ( [1]) which also talks about Katha Upanishad. Please consider changing the name in either of the article and link one another.
Thanks Xyvutz Xyvutz ( talk) 16:55, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
References
It seems to me that there are verses in the Katha which are clearly nondualistic, and others which are dualistic. To call the whole upanishad dualistic strikes me as a one-sided view. For instance, 2.1.10, 2.1.11. And Shankaracharya interprets all 10 Upanishads on which he wrote commentaries to be non-dualistic. Devadaru ( talk) 18:15, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
'Dual+Nondual: To Devadaru, with regard to your last paragraph about coexistence of both dualistic and nondualistic ideas: It seems to me that this touches on a very important point, and its significance transcends the Katha. Important streams of interpretation in Indian thought do not hold dual and nondual views as necessarily in conflict with each other. Thus, why should we feel obliged to impute a philosophical stance on this issue to any given Upanishad? (of course, if the evidence is clear that an Upanishad only adopts one stance, that's a different issue.) Indian thought as a whole seems to hold these ideas as representing alternative perspectives that each reflect important truths (some have used the similie of the Upanishads as an 'ecstatic slide show' that offers multiple perspectives without seeking a comprehensive philosophical integration). Willingness to accept truth in each of these perspectives is clear in such figures as Ramakrishna, but I suspect many more instances could be found, perhaps throughout history. In scholarly work, I think I've seen work by Huston Smith that converges with this idea, though I can't seem to lay my hands on it at the moment (I think a brief sketch of the idea may occur in his book Primordial Tradition).
It's perhaps relevant that psychologists have sometimes argued that the capacity to assimilate complementary perspectives is an indicator of spiritual/religious maturity (which, as we know, is not always present in scholars, since many of them are not themselves engaged in spiritual/religious practice). Two articles are: Reich, K. H. (1990). The Chalcedonian definition - an example of the difficulties and the usefulness of thinking in terms of complementarity. Journal of Psychology and Theology, 18, 148-157. Reich, K. H. (1991). The role of complementarity reasoning in religious development. New Directions for Child Development, 52, 77-89. There are also analogies with other fields. For example, on the level of intuitions and imagery, it's difficult to reconcile the particle and wave theories of light, but they are reconciled in the equations of quantum theory.
It seems to me that this viewpoint (that dual and nondual may be complementary practical/experiential perspectives rather than competing philosophical perspectives) should be integrated (as one noteworthy view) into Wikipedia's discussion of the Upanishads as a whole, if it has not already been mentioned there (I haven't checked). The key, of course, for including this idea in Wikipedia is finding references to notable and/or scholarly sources that express this idea. I think Prabhavanda's Spiritual Heritage of India may also discuss this idea; his work is certainly of a fairly scholarly tone, though I am not sure about what topics in Wikipedia it would counts as a reliable source, since he did not have an academic appointment and the book, at least my edition, was not published by an academic press. My knowledge of sources on this matter is uneven and not too deep. But I think this is a well-established position in the tradition, so there must be sources somewhere. I will try to find my Huston Smith book in the next few days. If good sources are located, then perhaps changes would be indicated both in the KU page and elsewhere. Health Researcher ( talk) 01:32, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
I am creating this section as a place to collect quotations that may be relevant for characterizing the relation between dualistic and nondualistic views represented in the Katha and the Upanishads as a whole. I don't have much training or a large library in this issue, and others are welcome and encouraged to add. The goal is to create resources for a nuanced view that does not uphold misleading dichotomies at the level of individual Upanishadic texts, or more broadly. Health Researcher ( talk) 23:51, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
New book pages re Prabhavananda, Radhakrishnan (@Davadaru, Mitsube, & anyone interested): Apropros to several of the quotes above, see new WP pages The Principal Upanishads (book) (Radhakrishnan book) and Spiritual Heritage of India (book) (Prabhavananda book). These pages are not yet "good articles" on these books, but may still provide a resource for weighing(/working out) the relevance/etc. of those books as sources for refining the Katha page. On the book pages, the description of book contents could still be built up. Perhaps the fact that the quotes above have come up in our conversations suggests they would be of interest on the book pages as well as perhaps on this Katha page. Health Researcher ( talk) 19:24, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
Oh dear, now I am remembering why I got so frustrated with Wikipedia. The site is wonderful in so many areas. But the insistence on "academic sources" and "scholarship", which is a good thing in most subjects surely, often leads to problems when dealing with Asian subjects, and in my experience especially with Hinduism, because western "scholars" consistently misunderstand and misportray Hindu teachings. Yet, because Wikipedia accepts such culturally biased work as an authentic, academic source, such misinformation and (what looks to me like) garbage can be included in Wikipedia articles, with extensive references; while a (for me) more authentic source (like for instance Prabhavananda), might be discounted because it is not "academic". The page on Ramakrishna, with all the arguments on Jeffrey Kripal and Kali's Child, is a case in point (see the talk pages and archives if you are curious). I wonder if there is scope for updating Wikipedia's policy on reliable sources to give weight to authentic sources outside academia, especially in such areas as Asian Religions. That is, sources which are considered authentic within that tradition (like, for instance, Prabhavananda) could be accepted as authentic for Wikipedia as well. But I don't have the time or energy to fight for this! Devadaru ( talk) 15:25, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
: Unknown parameter |coauthors=
ignored (|author=
suggested) (
help) )
Devadaru (
talk) 19:18, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
Here are some quotations from the Wikipedia page on reliable sources ( WP:RS) that are relevant to evaluating nonacademic sources, such as Prabhavananda's Spiritual Heritage of India (see talk above), that we may potentially want to draw on:
Health Researcher ( talk) 01:19, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
Our system for citing Katha verses on this page is not standardized. More specifically, I notice that some of the earlier work on this page cited Katha verses to chapters numbered 1 to 6 (i.e., I-VI), whereas the more recent contributions by Ekabhishek use the system of 2 parts, each of which has 3 chapters. It seems to me that we should standardize, and use only one system. All of the editions with which I am familiar use the system used by Ekabhishek (2 parts / 3 chapters in each) (e.g., it is used by, Radhakrishnan's translation, Easwaran's translation, Gambhirananda's translation). I am inclined to convert the page to using this latter system. Any opinions? Health Researcher ( talk) 17:04, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Presently the article says, ".. It is associated with the Cāraka-Kaṭha school of the Black Yajurveda". However the book Principal Upanishads, mentions that it belongs to the Taittiriya Shakha of Yajurveda (see - Radhakrishnan, S. (1994). The Principal Upanishads. New Delhi: HarperCollins Publishers India. ISBN 817223124-5 p. 593.) Plus the two citation presently given, do not allow access to the relevant text to cross check the facts, as one of them is right, thanks! -- Ekabhishek talk 03:02, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
{{
editsemiprotected}}
Devanagari is wrong for Kaṭhā (uses dental rather than retroflex 't').
Imurchie ( talk) 16:38, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Katha Upanishad article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I noticed today that this page lists only one source for a Katha translation, something from a US-based press in Bloomington, Indiana, but does not list additional translations -- not even such classics as by Radhakrishnan (except for an external link to a Paramanda translation). In contrast, I noticed that the page for the Isha Upanishad lists a variety of translations. Therefore I am adding some additional translations to bring this page more in line with the Isha page style. Not all of these translations may be equally scholarly, but that does not strike me as a sole criterion of interest for translations (that is, readers may seek scholarly translations for scholarly purposes, and other types of translations -- e.g., reflecting particular perspectives, sources of inspiration, or needs -- from other sources). No doubt readers would also be well-served by an impartial discussion of the (alleged or, better, verifiable) qualities of the various translations. We wouldn't want an infintely long list (how many translations are there?), but as a reader of the page, I can say that I myself would certainly want to be told about more than 1 or 2 translations. So these additions may not be perfect, but at least listing multiple translations seems like a step in the right direction -- so I am doing it (Please offer clear explanations of your reasoning if you disagree -- Thanks!). Health Researcher ( talk) 01:44, 8 November 2009 (UTC)
Hi All
There is an article in the name Nachiketa ( [1]) which also talks about Katha Upanishad. Please consider changing the name in either of the article and link one another.
Thanks Xyvutz Xyvutz ( talk) 16:55, 3 December 2009 (UTC)
References
It seems to me that there are verses in the Katha which are clearly nondualistic, and others which are dualistic. To call the whole upanishad dualistic strikes me as a one-sided view. For instance, 2.1.10, 2.1.11. And Shankaracharya interprets all 10 Upanishads on which he wrote commentaries to be non-dualistic. Devadaru ( talk) 18:15, 23 March 2010 (UTC)
'Dual+Nondual: To Devadaru, with regard to your last paragraph about coexistence of both dualistic and nondualistic ideas: It seems to me that this touches on a very important point, and its significance transcends the Katha. Important streams of interpretation in Indian thought do not hold dual and nondual views as necessarily in conflict with each other. Thus, why should we feel obliged to impute a philosophical stance on this issue to any given Upanishad? (of course, if the evidence is clear that an Upanishad only adopts one stance, that's a different issue.) Indian thought as a whole seems to hold these ideas as representing alternative perspectives that each reflect important truths (some have used the similie of the Upanishads as an 'ecstatic slide show' that offers multiple perspectives without seeking a comprehensive philosophical integration). Willingness to accept truth in each of these perspectives is clear in such figures as Ramakrishna, but I suspect many more instances could be found, perhaps throughout history. In scholarly work, I think I've seen work by Huston Smith that converges with this idea, though I can't seem to lay my hands on it at the moment (I think a brief sketch of the idea may occur in his book Primordial Tradition).
It's perhaps relevant that psychologists have sometimes argued that the capacity to assimilate complementary perspectives is an indicator of spiritual/religious maturity (which, as we know, is not always present in scholars, since many of them are not themselves engaged in spiritual/religious practice). Two articles are: Reich, K. H. (1990). The Chalcedonian definition - an example of the difficulties and the usefulness of thinking in terms of complementarity. Journal of Psychology and Theology, 18, 148-157. Reich, K. H. (1991). The role of complementarity reasoning in religious development. New Directions for Child Development, 52, 77-89. There are also analogies with other fields. For example, on the level of intuitions and imagery, it's difficult to reconcile the particle and wave theories of light, but they are reconciled in the equations of quantum theory.
It seems to me that this viewpoint (that dual and nondual may be complementary practical/experiential perspectives rather than competing philosophical perspectives) should be integrated (as one noteworthy view) into Wikipedia's discussion of the Upanishads as a whole, if it has not already been mentioned there (I haven't checked). The key, of course, for including this idea in Wikipedia is finding references to notable and/or scholarly sources that express this idea. I think Prabhavanda's Spiritual Heritage of India may also discuss this idea; his work is certainly of a fairly scholarly tone, though I am not sure about what topics in Wikipedia it would counts as a reliable source, since he did not have an academic appointment and the book, at least my edition, was not published by an academic press. My knowledge of sources on this matter is uneven and not too deep. But I think this is a well-established position in the tradition, so there must be sources somewhere. I will try to find my Huston Smith book in the next few days. If good sources are located, then perhaps changes would be indicated both in the KU page and elsewhere. Health Researcher ( talk) 01:32, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
I am creating this section as a place to collect quotations that may be relevant for characterizing the relation between dualistic and nondualistic views represented in the Katha and the Upanishads as a whole. I don't have much training or a large library in this issue, and others are welcome and encouraged to add. The goal is to create resources for a nuanced view that does not uphold misleading dichotomies at the level of individual Upanishadic texts, or more broadly. Health Researcher ( talk) 23:51, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
New book pages re Prabhavananda, Radhakrishnan (@Davadaru, Mitsube, & anyone interested): Apropros to several of the quotes above, see new WP pages The Principal Upanishads (book) (Radhakrishnan book) and Spiritual Heritage of India (book) (Prabhavananda book). These pages are not yet "good articles" on these books, but may still provide a resource for weighing(/working out) the relevance/etc. of those books as sources for refining the Katha page. On the book pages, the description of book contents could still be built up. Perhaps the fact that the quotes above have come up in our conversations suggests they would be of interest on the book pages as well as perhaps on this Katha page. Health Researcher ( talk) 19:24, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
Oh dear, now I am remembering why I got so frustrated with Wikipedia. The site is wonderful in so many areas. But the insistence on "academic sources" and "scholarship", which is a good thing in most subjects surely, often leads to problems when dealing with Asian subjects, and in my experience especially with Hinduism, because western "scholars" consistently misunderstand and misportray Hindu teachings. Yet, because Wikipedia accepts such culturally biased work as an authentic, academic source, such misinformation and (what looks to me like) garbage can be included in Wikipedia articles, with extensive references; while a (for me) more authentic source (like for instance Prabhavananda), might be discounted because it is not "academic". The page on Ramakrishna, with all the arguments on Jeffrey Kripal and Kali's Child, is a case in point (see the talk pages and archives if you are curious). I wonder if there is scope for updating Wikipedia's policy on reliable sources to give weight to authentic sources outside academia, especially in such areas as Asian Religions. That is, sources which are considered authentic within that tradition (like, for instance, Prabhavananda) could be accepted as authentic for Wikipedia as well. But I don't have the time or energy to fight for this! Devadaru ( talk) 15:25, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
{{
cite journal}}
: Unknown parameter |coauthors=
ignored (|author=
suggested) (
help) )
Devadaru (
talk) 19:18, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
Here are some quotations from the Wikipedia page on reliable sources ( WP:RS) that are relevant to evaluating nonacademic sources, such as Prabhavananda's Spiritual Heritage of India (see talk above), that we may potentially want to draw on:
Health Researcher ( talk) 01:19, 27 March 2010 (UTC)
Our system for citing Katha verses on this page is not standardized. More specifically, I notice that some of the earlier work on this page cited Katha verses to chapters numbered 1 to 6 (i.e., I-VI), whereas the more recent contributions by Ekabhishek use the system of 2 parts, each of which has 3 chapters. It seems to me that we should standardize, and use only one system. All of the editions with which I am familiar use the system used by Ekabhishek (2 parts / 3 chapters in each) (e.g., it is used by, Radhakrishnan's translation, Easwaran's translation, Gambhirananda's translation). I am inclined to convert the page to using this latter system. Any opinions? Health Researcher ( talk) 17:04, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
Presently the article says, ".. It is associated with the Cāraka-Kaṭha school of the Black Yajurveda". However the book Principal Upanishads, mentions that it belongs to the Taittiriya Shakha of Yajurveda (see - Radhakrishnan, S. (1994). The Principal Upanishads. New Delhi: HarperCollins Publishers India. ISBN 817223124-5 p. 593.) Plus the two citation presently given, do not allow access to the relevant text to cross check the facts, as one of them is right, thanks! -- Ekabhishek talk 03:02, 23 May 2010 (UTC)
{{
editsemiprotected}}
Devanagari is wrong for Kaṭhā (uses dental rather than retroflex 't').
Imurchie ( talk) 16:38, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Katha Upanishad. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 03:09, 7 December 2017 (UTC)