Kars was nominated as a Geography and places good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (December 7, 2014). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated. |
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I was a little shocked to see a child's drawing on these pages. How is that allowed? With all due respect, it deos not belong to a general purpose article in a public space. How about a real map of the city, a real nice picture of the famed Kars Fort, and other real and useful information first?-- Murat ( talk) 03:09, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
As a newbie here I have already seen many bizzare stuff, but this is on top. Hard to believe this is even being discussed. Personal memorablia does not belong on these pages. How about the picture I drew when I was 5? My folks thought it was good. Can we get real?-- Murat ( talk) 03:27, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Are you suggesting this child's drawing has some historical and artistic importance and significance? There is absolutely nothing notable about it. There is not even a real map of Kars here, not even a decent picture of the "Kale". Here is a compromise: Place the drawing in the talk pages where granpa can be immortalized.-- Murat ( talk) 03:42, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
But what does that make you? Do not worry, the wall of self-deception and fabrication is very thick, there is a whole industry behind it and an army of trolls behind it.-- Murat ( talk) 02:43, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
See discussion above. Maybe you can add a real map of the city if really interested in improving it. There is more to Kars than its Armenian history. These pages are not personal depository.-- Murat ( talk) 11:55, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
Eupator
Oh please, Parishan, Azeri? Do you want to perhaps add Russian to the San Fransisco and Alaska articles now? Just because the Iranian Safavids temporarily held the region doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to now add an irrelevant script that was invented only twenty years ago; the logic is so mindboggling that I'm surprised you're going to such extremes to justify this silly inclusion. The Russian spelling seems more relevant, the Greek is debatable, so we can discuss whether their inclusion is truly warranted.
On a different note, Murad's disruptive edit of removing the illustration of Kars, by justifying it as "memorabilia", is just another example of his vandalism so I duly re-added the image. A topic ban on all things related to Armenians seems to be in order here for him.-- Marshal Bagramyan ( talk) 03:11, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
Here is a translation of the material accompanied with the Armenian text and my notes. Beginning from the first line:
Panoramic view of Kars [written Ղարս], 1917, my sacred memories of the [the city]. [One line below, numbers corresponding to those on map] 1. Red bathhouses (կարմիր բաղնիքներ) 2. Our home 3. Angliski saud, Russian for English garden (Անգլիսկի սադ) 4. the Armenian church 5. Homes belonging to the wealthy (մեծահարուստների տուներ) 6. Pohyi Mahlen (մահլէն, Turkish for district), or Pohi District [the first word remains unclear for me] 7. Tezkharab [possibly Turkish? tez, quick; kharab, ruined] District 8. [unnamed] river 9. [unnamed] river 10. Aleksander Avenue [to the far right], etc. [On the map itself, orange colored road stretching from left to right below the main text] District of the Malakans. [To the far left] The road to Erzerum. [To the far right] Kars Fortress. [Bottom left] Railway station (կաեարան երկաթուղա) [Bottom left of page, with stretching arrow] Toward Alexandropol.
Hope this clarified things.-- Marshal Bagramyan ( talk) 23:23, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
I have been bold and removed all the so-called alternative names except for the two written in Armenian. As I had pointed out way back in May of last year, all of them, except the "Gh" Armenian version, are pronounced the same. They are not alternative names for Kars used by different languages or races - they are exactly the same name written using different alphabets! If someone wants to start an edit war over this removal, I will not oblige. I will take the issue to arbitration. Anyone who does think all those "alternative" names should return would do well to look at how such issues are covered in other entries. Meowy 00:37, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Parishan adding Azeri names to articles where it doesn't belong? This seems oddly familiar. How many times I have seen this before? VartanM ( talk) 08:23, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Meowy, before removing the reference to Georgian origin of the Kars name, please, find another non-Armenian source citing Armenian spelling (or Armenian meaning) of the word "Kars", to justify what appears to be original research without sources. Atabəy ( talk) 01:02, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Since no original meaning is provided in Armenian, I kept the Armenian spelling and Georgian spelling with addition that the word originates from Georgian "Kari" (the Gate) per reference. Atabəy ( talk) 16:23, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Well, why don't you provide the Armenian meaning here, in discussion. Moreover, the reference which Marshall moved down says that the name originates from Georgian and provides the meaning. So why move it down? What's the basis for claiming that reference to Armenian transliteration without meaning is more important than reference to Georgian name with meaning? Perhaps, we could move the debate to Wikipedia fringe theories to investigate why Armenian transliteration, which indeed means nothing and is not original, is pushed so much against the original? Atabəy ( talk) 21:30, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
You're claiming that one unverified source says the word originated from Armenian "bride", while removing the other, verifiable and linked source, which claims that it comes from Georgian "kari" - "gate". Now are we to believe you OR the source? Atabəy ( talk) 00:18, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Eupator, please, follow WP:NPA and WP:AGF and be polite in your discussions. Also, the fact that you're getting sick and tired of WP:POV pushing is not the issue of other editors, in this regards, please, follow WP:OWN as well. Furthermore, the fact that you presented an Armenian name for the origin (lacking support) is not a sufficient justification for inserting an Armenian spelling of the city that is not in Armenia, and is located on the border of Turkey with both Georgia and Armenia. I do not understand your deliberate attempt to disassociate the city with Georgia and why did you remove the reference? Atabəy ( talk) 00:47, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Again, since references say the name originates from Georgian "kari", there is no reason to keep only Armenian spelling in front - Georgian must be there also. If you want to remove it, fine remove Armenian as well. Atabəy ( talk) 18:53, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
Marshall, there is no need to threaten people but rather to discuss and come to consensus. There is no logical reason for listing Georgian in etymology section while showing Armenian in transliteration. Why is one upheld over the other, when references to both origins are provided. Atabəy ( talk) 23:12, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
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Today someone wanted to remove a phrase about the closing of the border. While it is "only" a capital of a border province, the info is significant as the railways to Armenia from Kars were closed after the shut down of the border. But the info was present twice, once in the very lead and once under transport. So I moved the phrase down from the lead to transport and adapted the phrase a bit. Paradise Chronicle ( talk) 05:20, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
Do we have sources on the burning other than Turkish source. The current sources are only Turkish news media articles. Maidyouneed ( talk) 01:31, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Could you do us a favor and translate those Turkish articles into English using Google Translate? Dominator1071 ( talk) 17:33, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Why is the Armenian name of the town included? These have been Turkish and Kurdish lands for a thousand years. Articles on Greek islands that were Turkish territory a hundred years ago are not allowing Turkish names to be included! Double standards seem to be at play. Someone explain it logically please. Dominator1071 ( talk) 23:21, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
Kars was nominated as a Geography and places good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (December 7, 2014). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Kars article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: Index, 1Auto-archiving period: 365 days |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||
|
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to
Armenia,
Azerbaijan, or related conflicts, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
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This page has archives. Sections older than 365 days may be automatically archived by ClueBot III when more than 8 sections are present. |
I was a little shocked to see a child's drawing on these pages. How is that allowed? With all due respect, it deos not belong to a general purpose article in a public space. How about a real map of the city, a real nice picture of the famed Kars Fort, and other real and useful information first?-- Murat ( talk) 03:09, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
As a newbie here I have already seen many bizzare stuff, but this is on top. Hard to believe this is even being discussed. Personal memorablia does not belong on these pages. How about the picture I drew when I was 5? My folks thought it was good. Can we get real?-- Murat ( talk) 03:27, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Are you suggesting this child's drawing has some historical and artistic importance and significance? There is absolutely nothing notable about it. There is not even a real map of Kars here, not even a decent picture of the "Kale". Here is a compromise: Place the drawing in the talk pages where granpa can be immortalized.-- Murat ( talk) 03:42, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
But what does that make you? Do not worry, the wall of self-deception and fabrication is very thick, there is a whole industry behind it and an army of trolls behind it.-- Murat ( talk) 02:43, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
See discussion above. Maybe you can add a real map of the city if really interested in improving it. There is more to Kars than its Armenian history. These pages are not personal depository.-- Murat ( talk) 11:55, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
Eupator
Oh please, Parishan, Azeri? Do you want to perhaps add Russian to the San Fransisco and Alaska articles now? Just because the Iranian Safavids temporarily held the region doesn't necessarily mean that we're going to now add an irrelevant script that was invented only twenty years ago; the logic is so mindboggling that I'm surprised you're going to such extremes to justify this silly inclusion. The Russian spelling seems more relevant, the Greek is debatable, so we can discuss whether their inclusion is truly warranted.
On a different note, Murad's disruptive edit of removing the illustration of Kars, by justifying it as "memorabilia", is just another example of his vandalism so I duly re-added the image. A topic ban on all things related to Armenians seems to be in order here for him.-- Marshal Bagramyan ( talk) 03:11, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
Here is a translation of the material accompanied with the Armenian text and my notes. Beginning from the first line:
Panoramic view of Kars [written Ղարս], 1917, my sacred memories of the [the city]. [One line below, numbers corresponding to those on map] 1. Red bathhouses (կարմիր բաղնիքներ) 2. Our home 3. Angliski saud, Russian for English garden (Անգլիսկի սադ) 4. the Armenian church 5. Homes belonging to the wealthy (մեծահարուստների տուներ) 6. Pohyi Mahlen (մահլէն, Turkish for district), or Pohi District [the first word remains unclear for me] 7. Tezkharab [possibly Turkish? tez, quick; kharab, ruined] District 8. [unnamed] river 9. [unnamed] river 10. Aleksander Avenue [to the far right], etc. [On the map itself, orange colored road stretching from left to right below the main text] District of the Malakans. [To the far left] The road to Erzerum. [To the far right] Kars Fortress. [Bottom left] Railway station (կաեարան երկաթուղա) [Bottom left of page, with stretching arrow] Toward Alexandropol.
Hope this clarified things.-- Marshal Bagramyan ( talk) 23:23, 10 October 2008 (UTC)
I have been bold and removed all the so-called alternative names except for the two written in Armenian. As I had pointed out way back in May of last year, all of them, except the "Gh" Armenian version, are pronounced the same. They are not alternative names for Kars used by different languages or races - they are exactly the same name written using different alphabets! If someone wants to start an edit war over this removal, I will not oblige. I will take the issue to arbitration. Anyone who does think all those "alternative" names should return would do well to look at how such issues are covered in other entries. Meowy 00:37, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Parishan adding Azeri names to articles where it doesn't belong? This seems oddly familiar. How many times I have seen this before? VartanM ( talk) 08:23, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
Meowy, before removing the reference to Georgian origin of the Kars name, please, find another non-Armenian source citing Armenian spelling (or Armenian meaning) of the word "Kars", to justify what appears to be original research without sources. Atabəy ( talk) 01:02, 2 July 2009 (UTC)
Since no original meaning is provided in Armenian, I kept the Armenian spelling and Georgian spelling with addition that the word originates from Georgian "Kari" (the Gate) per reference. Atabəy ( talk) 16:23, 14 July 2009 (UTC)
Well, why don't you provide the Armenian meaning here, in discussion. Moreover, the reference which Marshall moved down says that the name originates from Georgian and provides the meaning. So why move it down? What's the basis for claiming that reference to Armenian transliteration without meaning is more important than reference to Georgian name with meaning? Perhaps, we could move the debate to Wikipedia fringe theories to investigate why Armenian transliteration, which indeed means nothing and is not original, is pushed so much against the original? Atabəy ( talk) 21:30, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
You're claiming that one unverified source says the word originated from Armenian "bride", while removing the other, verifiable and linked source, which claims that it comes from Georgian "kari" - "gate". Now are we to believe you OR the source? Atabəy ( talk) 00:18, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Eupator, please, follow WP:NPA and WP:AGF and be polite in your discussions. Also, the fact that you're getting sick and tired of WP:POV pushing is not the issue of other editors, in this regards, please, follow WP:OWN as well. Furthermore, the fact that you presented an Armenian name for the origin (lacking support) is not a sufficient justification for inserting an Armenian spelling of the city that is not in Armenia, and is located on the border of Turkey with both Georgia and Armenia. I do not understand your deliberate attempt to disassociate the city with Georgia and why did you remove the reference? Atabəy ( talk) 00:47, 29 July 2009 (UTC)
Again, since references say the name originates from Georgian "kari", there is no reason to keep only Armenian spelling in front - Georgian must be there also. If you want to remove it, fine remove Armenian as well. Atabəy ( talk) 18:53, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
Marshall, there is no need to threaten people but rather to discuss and come to consensus. There is no logical reason for listing Georgian in etymology section while showing Armenian in transliteration. Why is one upheld over the other, when references to both origins are provided. Atabəy ( talk) 23:12, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:43, 6 December 2017 (UTC)
Today someone wanted to remove a phrase about the closing of the border. While it is "only" a capital of a border province, the info is significant as the railways to Armenia from Kars were closed after the shut down of the border. But the info was present twice, once in the very lead and once under transport. So I moved the phrase down from the lead to transport and adapted the phrase a bit. Paradise Chronicle ( talk) 05:20, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
Do we have sources on the burning other than Turkish source. The current sources are only Turkish news media articles. Maidyouneed ( talk) 01:31, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Could you do us a favor and translate those Turkish articles into English using Google Translate? Dominator1071 ( talk) 17:33, 7 August 2020 (UTC)
Why is the Armenian name of the town included? These have been Turkish and Kurdish lands for a thousand years. Articles on Greek islands that were Turkish territory a hundred years ago are not allowing Turkish names to be included! Double standards seem to be at play. Someone explain it logically please. Dominator1071 ( talk) 23:21, 15 August 2020 (UTC)