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![]() | Spiritist doctrine was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 22 May 2012 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Kardecist spiritism. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
![]() | On 28 February 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
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The previous talk page contents have become outdated now that I replaced most of the article content with content from the Portuguese-language Wikipedia page "Espiritismo", so I have archived them. Thiagovscoelho ( talk) 14:43, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
This article largely reads like a defence of the spiritist beliefs, which is inappropriate for wiki. Someone needs to clean up the article to make it an objective report on spiritism without prejudice. Article should probably be protected as well, since it is very likely to be edited by believers in spiritism to return to the current state. 2A02:810D:E80:2ED4:480:3B17:C4FC:DDDC ( talk) 08:23, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
There are lots of short citations, but no full citations. Someone familiar with the sources should fix this. As it stands, the article is unverifiable. Skyerise ( talk) 11:24, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. There is a rough consensus that "spiritism" is an ambigous term and there is no primary topic for it. Hence, the dab page will be moved to spiritism. Regarding the article itself, there is no clear consensus about the best title for the article, so a new discussion can be opened to determine that. Some editors suggested a WP:BROADCONCEPT should be created at spiritism, but again there wasn't enough consensus for that, so further discussion is needed. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 ( talk) 11:10, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
Kardecist spiritism → ? – This article was moved without discussion on February 23 from a longstanding title of Spiritism, which has now been turned into a dab page. Opening this discussion to clarify whether "Kardecist spiritism" or just "spiritism" is a better title. Also noting that there are 1000+ disambiguation links that were created after the page move and dab page creation. Natg 19 ( talk) 18:58, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
A general term for the belief that the spirits or souls of the dead communicate with the living through a medium or psychically sensitive individual. The term has been used with two quite different meanings in the twentieth century. In conservative Christian circles it is often used as a derogatory term to describe Spiritualism in anticult literature. It is also used as the designation of the followers of the particular Spiritualist teachings of Allan Kardec (1804-1869)...Spiritism and Spiritualism should not be confused, since the adherents of each section were opposed to the tenets of the other...
— Melton, J. Gordon (ed.). "Spiritism". Encyclopedia of occultism & parapsychology.
another term for spiritualism (sense 1)
Coined in the 1850s as an alternative to spiritualism (also first recorded in the 1850s in the sense 'the belief that the spirits of the dead can hold communication with the living'), it has lost ground since and is now far less often used than the longer term. Spiritualism is the usual term for this sense, and also for the philosophical sense 'the doctrine that the spirit exists as distinct from matter, or that spirit is the only reality'.
another term for spiritualism (sense 1)
SPIRITUALISM sense 2a
“Spiritism” is the creation of the French educator Hyppolyte Leon Denizard Rivail (1804–1869), who went under the alias of Allan Kardec for his Spiritist writings. Spiritism incorporates the archaic mediumistic methods of American “Occult Spiritualism” of the Fox sisters but is more Christian than the American. Spiritism also incorporates reincarnation. Spiritism spread from France to Cuba and Brazil, where in some instances it blended with Cuban and Brazilian African traditions.
— Gonzalez, A. V. "Spiritism". In Leeming, D. A. (ed.). Encyclopedia of Psychology and Religion.
Based on a sampling of the citations I could probably tag bomb the hell out of the article, or remove large swaths of text based on the core policy V or FRINGE. Are we going to go back to the sources and try to fix the problems or just wikilawyer about them? fiveby( zero) 15:33, 29 February 2024 (UTC)In contemporary South American Spiritism there is a noticeable tendency to blur formal distinctions between Spiritism and Spiritualism, particularly in Brazil, where all kinds of physical phenomena are manifest, including psychic surgery. The Spiritism of Kardec discouraged such physical mediumship...
Kardecism is a Brazilian transplant of nineteenth-century French Spiritism. It has developed more explicitly religious dimensions than its French counterpart: for example emphasizing healing and miracles, reflecting mixture with popular, especially Afro-Brazilian, practices; and sanctifying leaders, often precisely because of their reputation as healers.
I aggree with Fiveby. There's a lot of pro FRINGE to clean. Section about table-turning is a good example of this, and Scientific method and "spiritual science" uses parapsychology to legitimate pseudoscientific alegations by kardecists. Medicine section is all about FRINGE too. Ixocactus ( talk) 17:23, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Kardecist spiritism article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
![]() | This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
![]() | Spiritist doctrine was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 22 May 2012 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Kardecist spiritism. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
![]() | On 28 February 2024, it was proposed that this article be moved. The result of the discussion was not moved. |
|
|
The previous talk page contents have become outdated now that I replaced most of the article content with content from the Portuguese-language Wikipedia page "Espiritismo", so I have archived them. Thiagovscoelho ( talk) 14:43, 19 June 2023 (UTC)
This article largely reads like a defence of the spiritist beliefs, which is inappropriate for wiki. Someone needs to clean up the article to make it an objective report on spiritism without prejudice. Article should probably be protected as well, since it is very likely to be edited by believers in spiritism to return to the current state. 2A02:810D:E80:2ED4:480:3B17:C4FC:DDDC ( talk) 08:23, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
There are lots of short citations, but no full citations. Someone familiar with the sources should fix this. As it stands, the article is unverifiable. Skyerise ( talk) 11:24, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved. There is a rough consensus that "spiritism" is an ambigous term and there is no primary topic for it. Hence, the dab page will be moved to spiritism. Regarding the article itself, there is no clear consensus about the best title for the article, so a new discussion can be opened to determine that. Some editors suggested a WP:BROADCONCEPT should be created at spiritism, but again there wasn't enough consensus for that, so further discussion is needed. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Vpab15 ( talk) 11:10, 11 March 2024 (UTC)
Kardecist spiritism → ? – This article was moved without discussion on February 23 from a longstanding title of Spiritism, which has now been turned into a dab page. Opening this discussion to clarify whether "Kardecist spiritism" or just "spiritism" is a better title. Also noting that there are 1000+ disambiguation links that were created after the page move and dab page creation. Natg 19 ( talk) 18:58, 28 February 2024 (UTC)
A general term for the belief that the spirits or souls of the dead communicate with the living through a medium or psychically sensitive individual. The term has been used with two quite different meanings in the twentieth century. In conservative Christian circles it is often used as a derogatory term to describe Spiritualism in anticult literature. It is also used as the designation of the followers of the particular Spiritualist teachings of Allan Kardec (1804-1869)...Spiritism and Spiritualism should not be confused, since the adherents of each section were opposed to the tenets of the other...
— Melton, J. Gordon (ed.). "Spiritism". Encyclopedia of occultism & parapsychology.
another term for spiritualism (sense 1)
Coined in the 1850s as an alternative to spiritualism (also first recorded in the 1850s in the sense 'the belief that the spirits of the dead can hold communication with the living'), it has lost ground since and is now far less often used than the longer term. Spiritualism is the usual term for this sense, and also for the philosophical sense 'the doctrine that the spirit exists as distinct from matter, or that spirit is the only reality'.
another term for spiritualism (sense 1)
SPIRITUALISM sense 2a
“Spiritism” is the creation of the French educator Hyppolyte Leon Denizard Rivail (1804–1869), who went under the alias of Allan Kardec for his Spiritist writings. Spiritism incorporates the archaic mediumistic methods of American “Occult Spiritualism” of the Fox sisters but is more Christian than the American. Spiritism also incorporates reincarnation. Spiritism spread from France to Cuba and Brazil, where in some instances it blended with Cuban and Brazilian African traditions.
— Gonzalez, A. V. "Spiritism". In Leeming, D. A. (ed.). Encyclopedia of Psychology and Religion.
Based on a sampling of the citations I could probably tag bomb the hell out of the article, or remove large swaths of text based on the core policy V or FRINGE. Are we going to go back to the sources and try to fix the problems or just wikilawyer about them? fiveby( zero) 15:33, 29 February 2024 (UTC)In contemporary South American Spiritism there is a noticeable tendency to blur formal distinctions between Spiritism and Spiritualism, particularly in Brazil, where all kinds of physical phenomena are manifest, including psychic surgery. The Spiritism of Kardec discouraged such physical mediumship...
Kardecism is a Brazilian transplant of nineteenth-century French Spiritism. It has developed more explicitly religious dimensions than its French counterpart: for example emphasizing healing and miracles, reflecting mixture with popular, especially Afro-Brazilian, practices; and sanctifying leaders, often precisely because of their reputation as healers.
I aggree with Fiveby. There's a lot of pro FRINGE to clean. Section about table-turning is a good example of this, and Scientific method and "spiritual science" uses parapsychology to legitimate pseudoscientific alegations by kardecists. Medicine section is all about FRINGE too. Ixocactus ( talk) 17:23, 29 February 2024 (UTC)