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I think it should be clear that this battle was not a Soviet defeat or German victory. While the Soviets failed to achieve the aim of destroying 1st Panzer Army, they succeeded in neutering it, and they gained immense territory. If that is a defeat, I guess we need to count Waterloo as a British defeat, and the Battle for Normandy as an Allied one. Andreas 09:49, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Gen. N. F. Vatutin mortally wounded from February 29 and then is taken in Kiev Military Hospital, how this campaign was the commander anymore? -- Minh Tâm-T41-BCA ( talk) 05:29, 17 June 2012 (UTC)--
According to the original German caption of the photo used here, this was taken during antitank *training*, so the soldier is not really "taking cover". I also doubt that such training would be going on during active hostilities, so it's doubtful that this photo has anything to do with the battle in question. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.36.141.97 ( talk) 22:41, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
Hello everyone, I have a wealth of knowledge about this battle and the German losses in particular. I'd like to add more information about these aspects but I'm not really that good with editing since I'm relatively new here. I've recently added the estimates of German losses from the famous Russian historian Alexey Isayev. He recently wrote a highly detailed book about the Hube Pocket, based on German and Soviet documents. He and his works are a valuable source here regarding the battle, German manpower and equipment losses etc., since they contain primary sources. If there's anyone willing to help me edit this page and add additional information, I would very much appreciate.
Sincerely, Andreas — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tai3chinirv7ana ( talk • contribs) 15:11, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 12:51, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 14:06, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
All figures on losses from Soviet sources contradict German figures. Example: From 21-31 march 353 tanks captured and 1 - 10 april 188 tanks are said to have been captured. According to German sources only 96 tanks and 64 assault guns were available to the 1st tank army at the beginning of the Soviet attacks. The same is true for all numbers of captured and destroyed weapons. It is simply impossible to capture more weapons than ever existed! Source: Karl-Heinz Frieser, Klaus Schmider, Klaus Schönherr, Gerhard Schreiber, Krisztián Ungváry, Bernd Wegner: Das Deutsche Reich und der Zweite Weltkrieg Band 8 – Die Ostfront 1943/44 – Der Krieg im Osten und an den Nebenfronten, Im Auftrag des MGFA hrsg. von Karl-Heinz Frieser, Deutsche Verlags-Anstalt, Stuttgart 2007, XVI, 1320 S. ISBN 978-3-421-06235-2.-- Falkmart ( talk) 19:53, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
I think it should be clear that this battle was not a Soviet defeat or German victory. While the Soviets failed to achieve the aim of destroying 1st Panzer Army, they succeeded in neutering it, and they gained immense territory. If that is a defeat, I guess we need to count Waterloo as a British defeat, and the Battle for Normandy as an Allied one. Andreas 09:49, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
Gen. N. F. Vatutin mortally wounded from February 29 and then is taken in Kiev Military Hospital, how this campaign was the commander anymore? -- Minh Tâm-T41-BCA ( talk) 05:29, 17 June 2012 (UTC)--
According to the original German caption of the photo used here, this was taken during antitank *training*, so the soldier is not really "taking cover". I also doubt that such training would be going on during active hostilities, so it's doubtful that this photo has anything to do with the battle in question. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.36.141.97 ( talk) 22:41, 6 July 2015 (UTC)
Hello everyone, I have a wealth of knowledge about this battle and the German losses in particular. I'd like to add more information about these aspects but I'm not really that good with editing since I'm relatively new here. I've recently added the estimates of German losses from the famous Russian historian Alexey Isayev. He recently wrote a highly detailed book about the Hube Pocket, based on German and Soviet documents. He and his works are a valuable source here regarding the battle, German manpower and equipment losses etc., since they contain primary sources. If there's anyone willing to help me edit this page and add additional information, I would very much appreciate.
Sincerely, Andreas — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tai3chinirv7ana ( talk • contribs) 15:11, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 12:51, 29 April 2019 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 14:06, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
All figures on losses from Soviet sources contradict German figures. Example: From 21-31 march 353 tanks captured and 1 - 10 april 188 tanks are said to have been captured. According to German sources only 96 tanks and 64 assault guns were available to the 1st tank army at the beginning of the Soviet attacks. The same is true for all numbers of captured and destroyed weapons. It is simply impossible to capture more weapons than ever existed! Source: Karl-Heinz Frieser, Klaus Schmider, Klaus Schönherr, Gerhard Schreiber, Krisztián Ungváry, Bernd Wegner: Das Deutsche Reich und der Zweite Weltkrieg Band 8 – Die Ostfront 1943/44 – Der Krieg im Osten und an den Nebenfronten, Im Auftrag des MGFA hrsg. von Karl-Heinz Frieser, Deutsche Verlags-Anstalt, Stuttgart 2007, XVI, 1320 S. ISBN 978-3-421-06235-2.-- Falkmart ( talk) 19:53, 19 May 2019 (UTC)