220.226.39.171 14:50, 10 November 2007 (UTC)Source of the Oneness Blessing Oneness Blessing originates in the consciousness of Sri Amma Bhagavan. Wherever Oneness Blessing is given in the world it sources itself in the being of Sri Amma and Sri Bhagavan. www.onenessuniversity.org This added piece of information seems important for one receiving the blessing also known as Deeksha or Diksha not all believe this above statement to qualify universaly for all forms of Deeksha.
Signed AC from USA
The "White Paper" is dated to 1998. Let me know if you see an older mention. Shii (tock) 04:05, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
Some brief points for now:
The Swedish PDF is totally unwikilike—it should not be used at all. Notes 68 and 69 in the article on the 2012 phenomenon could be useful. Also, the sentence above should be rephrased. It is hardly intelligible as it stands, nor is the wording substantiated by any reference.
Accusativen hos Olsson ( talk) 17:49, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
Hello. There is a going on thingy here. Vijaykumak has not claimed himself to be Kalki Bhagavan; that name was a popular name from villagers/popular people that are very hindu. So before Oneness University got huge, he was popularly known among population as that NICKNAME; but that name stuck - so you cannot say that NOW he is Kalki Bhagavan - THAT HAS NEVER ops sorry about the caps that has never been his fantasy name. Please reconsiver or refrain editions as well. 189.97.51.170 ( talk) 00:55, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
As we have seen some early editions on this article, there may have been unverifiable urls related to its main content. So for now on, to reffer this article meeting the Wikipedian quality, one should follow the | Terms of use as for May 25th. For more troubleshooting please visit verifiability, neutrality, and avoiding original research. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.71.230.53 ( talk) 14:10, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
The issue going on around who is "Kalki" or not may have created a new mithology around a person. Please, for now on, take a look at this wikiarticle to get a small enlightenment for your intelectuality:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickname#Famous.2Ffictional_character
187.12.26.206 (
talk)
10:32, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
Previous edit as for Sept. 19th on section "==DARSHAN==" mentions: "The price for a standard darshan with Bhagavan is Rs.5 [...] for group darshan [...] is [...] Rs.5,000 and Rs. 20,000 for one-to-one darshan, as for March 2010."
The reference n. 6 is: (quote)indiasummary.com...(quote: see on history/prev's edit) .:This article on indiassummary.com is based on a "Tehelka report" but does not cite references. So, such report must be ref.'ed directly:.
CONCLUSION: Reference on item 6 leads to original research within the quality of opinion; in addition, must refer directly to the Tehelka report instead of relaying an article that mentions this report without a direct link. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.12.26.206 ( talk) 10:43, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
Had included a section "influence", with details of some prominent people who are students of Sri Bhagavan. In this section, had referred to articles from national newspapers in India, including The Times of India and The Indian Express and The Hindu. Listed here are some of the links that had been referred to [2] [3] [4]
I find that this entire section has been deleted by "MatthewTStone" has deleted with the comments "Reverting to version minus junk references etc"
@MathewTStone, Request to explain the reasoning for deletion. Do let me know your suggestions on how to improve the quality of my writing. Thanks for your attention -- Prodigyhk ( talk) 06:23, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
@MathewTStone, Please maintain the standard. Not only is the article you had reinstated filled with unreliable sources. It was a clear case of vandalism with WRONG and INSULTING information, mentioning that the subject is also known as "Lauda Kameena Chand". --> This is a very insulting word in local Indian language. We can not accept such deplorable and bad language in Wikipedia
Note - This entire section was first inserted on 15/Jan by user 46.9.71.74. It was immediately discovered as vandalism by administrator USER:Garion96 and removed. But, the user 46.9.71.74 has been persistent and keeps re-inserting. I have just followed the administrator and removed it when it was again inserted.
So, please read the material and also history before you start making your additions
Prodigyhk (
talk)
16:31, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
New section to be included - This is work in progress. Will be adding more material over the next few days. Do put in your comments and criticism here before I post it to the article page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prodigyhk ( talk • contribs) 14:25, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
Sri Bhagavan was born on 7 March 1949 as Vijay Kumar, in Natham Village, Gudiyatham Town, Vellore district, Tamil Nadu, to Smt. Vaidarbhi Amma and Sri Varadarajulu. Sri Bhagvan’s father was the head of the accounts department of Indian Railways [5] and his mother was an simple village woman. [5] In 1955, when Sri Bhagavan was 6 years of age, the family move to Chennai.
Sri Bhagavan attended the Don Bosco School, Madras [5]. Then,graduated from Vaishnava college in Madras majoring in Mathematics. [5]
Sri Bhagavan married Smt. Padmavathi on June 9, 1977. This was an arranged marriage following the prevalent customary practice in India for marriages decided by elders in the family. [5] Padmavathi, who is address as Amma by their students, was also a spiritual person and would take an active interest and participation in building the spiritual organization Oneness. [5]
Jeevashram School located in Chittoor District, Andhra Pradesh was founded by Sri Bhagavan, in July 1984 to provide an alternative form of education. The land for the school was taken on a lease, with the support provided by Mr. Hari Khoday , an Indian philanthropist. As director of the school, Sri Bhagawan's focus was to develop an environment for children to truly flower and discover themselves. The school had 180 residential students and 200 day students from near by villages. [5] It was at this school that his spiritual work would begin. In the summer of 1989, one of the students reported a mystical experience of divine silence. Soon, many other students reported similar experiences, and they were also able to pass their experiences to one another. During these experiences, children had vision of various Gods and would converse with them. Sri Bhagavan explained that the children had got in touch with Antaryamin, the inner guide who dwells in your heart that guides all beings towards greater truth [5]. In 1991, Sri Bhagawan decided to close the school and start the spiritual work for the larger community. The school was closed a few years later in 1994, after the senior students had all graduated from high school and the other students were moved to other schools. [5]
Once the decision was made to close Jeevashram School, work started in developing the spiritual programs for the public. [5] The principal of the Jeevashram School with a small group of teachers started the spiritual programs for public. The workshops were conducted as residential retreat programs conducted over 7 days or 21 days. The workshop focused on helping the participant accept themselves as they are [6] and connect with their own inner divine self the Antaryamin [7]
A second campus was setup in 1992 near Chennai city a place called Somangalam. In 1994, the campus of Jeevashram School was renamed as Satyaloka. Advance retreat programs for public were conducted at this campus. By 1995, Sri Bhagwan's workshops were being conducted in all major cities in India, including the capital New Delhi. In 1995, the first major public event was held at Chennai city, drawing more than 100,000 students from across India. In 1999, the work on building the Oneness University [5] at Varadaiahpalem, Chitoor district Andhra Pradesh India started. Oneness University, located 70 km from Chennai, is accessible by the National Highway 5 and is on Tirupati Road leading to the ancient temple town of Kalahasthi. In 2000, the first campus was completed and Sri Bhagawan and his team of teachers moved to the campus. Over the next few years, various campuses, including the Oneness Temple in 2008 [8] were built. In 2004, the first international program was started. [5]
--->>> Have added my comments in new section. MStone 07:13, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Mathew, The reference list picks up a few reference from earlier posting due to WP setting. Please take care not to get confused during review. The reference for this section only starts from Argadh Prodigyhk ( talk) 06:46, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
A question has been raised about http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2010/01/14/two-kalki-ashram-inmates-found-dead It seems Asian Tribune is cited in 500 Google Books. Not an enormous number but enough to show that asiantribune.com is regarded as a reliable source. World Institute for Asian Studies (WIAS) doesn't immediately appear to have an agenda. Comment anyone? In ictu oculi ( talk) 12:25, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
I have reverted those changes I'm afraid. We already had the discussion about his follower's biography. Generally we don't encourage followers of a controversial living figure to edit their BLP page extensively, which means that from now on changes should be discussed here first. The one change that does seem to have a case is that the crowd included CPI members, but then CPI is fairly mainstream in Chittoor, no reason why the crowd shouldn't. In ictu oculi ( talk) 05:24, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
We need to be mindful that the subject of this article is the very head of a very wealthy organisation which would not hesitate to use Wikipedia as a publicity vehicle to further its commercial aims.
Most of the recently-removed Biography Section read as a sanitised Public Relations piece designed to perpetuate the mythology of its subject and his commercial activities.
It was also rather poorly sourced. According to WP:BLP, material must be "attributed to a reliable, published source" and its guidelines apply whether the "material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable…"
In particular, it relies heavily on Primary Sources. Please refer to WP:PRIMARY which defines Primary Sources as including those which "are original materials that are close to an event, and are often accounts written by people who are directly involved".
Books fitting this description are Deeksha: The Fire from Heaven and Awakening into Oneness, which were both written by authors who became initiates/devotees of Kalki Bhagavan and were involved with the Oneness organisation through attending its courses. The organisation also appears to have endorsed these books in one way or another, which doesn't say much for the books' independence.
Moving on, the sources that are not WP:PRIMARY are a fairly rag-tag bunch (a clean up is in order, some links don't seem to go anywhere).
Strangely absent was anything that undermined the mythology of this so-called 'Bhagavan'. For example, why was there no mention of suggestions that Vijay Kumar, as he was then called, was at one time a mid-level administrator expelled from a Krishnamurti school? Or that he spent time as an insurance clerk? Or even maybe as a lowly rice seller? What about his alleged links to property developers?
Incidentally, the article could definitely use some coverage of his 'predictions', which never seem to come true – such as 'the ending of most religions' by 2012.
An overview of the citations is as follows:
^ Christian Aubert Du treizième baktun à la Terre. Not in English or apparently even very relevant to the subject matter. According to Amazon [2] the author appears to mainly have written a series of Language translation books.
^ Geoff Stray 2012 In Your Pocket 2009 - Page 12. This author [3] has written a series of books about 'predictions' for the year 2012. He doesn't appear to be much of an authority on anything much. I note that 2012 came to an end several months ago.
^ Keta Meera Sahebu Author appears to be a blogger [4] using WP for publicity. See author's User Talk page [5]. Referring to Google Books, his 'book' appears to be an amateurish collection of tertiary references.
^ Luis González Reimann [6] Cannot comment. Source provided returns a 404 Error but appears to be some kind of blog
^ Vicente Merlo Cannot comment. However, getting a bit desperate if we can't find decent references in English.
^ Kiara Windrider Deeksha: The Fire from Heaven Appears to be a Primary Source [7] Foreword is written by representatives of the organisation. Book based on the author's personal experiences, plus a series of interviews with fellow devotees at Oneness University.
^ http://www.onenessuniversity.org/index.php/about-us/founders Primary Source [8] – Completely unacceptable – organisation's own advertising and publicity material cannot be relied upon as a WP source.
^ a b c d e f g h i j k l Arjuna Ardagh Awakening into Oneness Appears to be a Primary Source [9]. Author was invited by Oneness Organisation to undergo its program and write the book. See [10].
^[www.lifepositive.com/Spirit/Sri_Bhagwan_Kalki/The_School_for_Enlightenment92006.asp] Appears to be a blog aggregation website or commercial site selling products/services
^ http://religion.info/english/documents/article_388.shtml#.UU8c8Bn652E A bit better overall. At least the coverage by Ramesh Avadhani shows a degree of balance.
Editor @prodigyhk, Wikipedia is not a publicity vehicle for organisations wanting to peddle their wares. MatthewTStone ( talk) 06:45, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Editor @ProdigyHK, almost every significant point in this biographical section is contestable and cannot appear on Wikipedia in its current form. For its key points, it relies almost exclusively on a single source, Ardagh, that is very close to the subject of the article, Vijay Kumar/'Kalki Bhagavan'.
To give one example of the source's unreliability, according to this author, Vijay Kumar/'Kalki Bhagavan' was the sole 'founder' of the Jeevashram School.
However, as even a bit of perfunctory research will reveal, there are are one or more other individuals in India who are claiming to be closely involved with the founding of the school, and may want to be known as co-founders. These individuals have had a very serious falling out with VK/KB, and have been very public in doing so. Over the years, they have been highly critical of his actions.
If Ardagh cannot be relied upon as a source in this fundamental point, it demonstrates quite adequately that his book is not a reliable source for anything else. (Incidentally, Wikipedia can be leaving itself open to legal action from such individuals if it publishes unsourced biographical material.)
By his own admission, the author was a VIP guest of VK/KB who has endorsed the book. So the author is merely repeating, in parrot fashion, what he has been told by VK/KB or his followers. In other words, the book is a very low grade Primary Source about a highly controversial subject.
There also seem to be many gaps in this biography, e.g. VK/KB's employment by the Life Insurance Corporation of India, and as a vendor selling rice. At another point in his life, VK/KB appears to have been in employment as a low to mid-level administrator in J. Krishnamurti's Rishi Valley School. There are suggestions that he was fired from that position.
I believe these periods, and others, have been excluded because they do not sound impressive and do not fit with the messianic 'life quest' of VK/KB's mythology. Such omitting of 'unimpressive' information is time-worn literary device for placing emphasis on the more 'impressive' aspects of the subject matter at hand. It is sometimes called 'cherry picking'. (See WP:CHERRY and WP:UNDUE)
Furthermore, as another example of WP:UNDUE: there is nothing remarkable in the Family Background section, and it appears to have been created as a literary device, as part of the 'messianic' story. It serves to contrast the subject's latter-day 'god-like' status with his 'humble' birth and origins. Please also see WP:V and WP:BLP.
Also refer to WP:UNDUE regarding the 'Jeevashram School'. A lot of weight seems to be placed on this school, which does not itself appear particularly notable as an institution.
In the section 'Spiritual programs for public (1991 to present)' there also seems to be a lot of non-biographical detail about programs and campuses, and it even provides directions for reaching the temple/campus. In parts, it reads like an advertisement. I refer you also to WP:NOTADVERTISING#ADVERTISING and WP:SOAP
As I have said, almost every contestable point in this 'biography' relies on one, single, Primary Source, Ardagh's book. And that book aside, most of the other sources being cited here are merely pointing to topics such as low level trivia about Bollywood movie stars praying at the ashram, etc., and do nothing whatsoever for the veracity of this biographical material. There is also a PDF, apparently in Swedish (what is it about? This is an English publication).
As highlighted previously, part from what is being discussed here, the only reasonably independent sources being cited on the Kalki Bhagavan main page are news organisations such as The Hindu, India Times, and The Statesman. However, almost all of the material from these independent sources is raising questions about this individual and his organisation.
@ProdigyHK, it is significant that you have, at times, resorted to edit wars to try and prevent such sources being used, and somewhat suggests there may be a conflict of interest. Please see WP:COI.
The burden now rests with you to provide adequate, independent references for this biographical material.
Please note, in the following, in many cases I have placed a citation needed template against specific words. This means if the template is after the word 'founded', I would like to see a reference that says KB/VK was solely responsible for 'founding' the school, and did not 'co-found' it with other individuals; if it is next to the word 'decision', it means I would like a reference that he 'made a decision' to close the school, and that the decision was not forced upon him by external factors; if is next to 'majored' then the reference should support the assertion that he 'majored' in mathematics, etc., throughout :
Biography
Early years (1949 - 1983)
Family background
Sri Bhagavan was born on 7 March 1949 as Vijay Kumar, in Natham Village, Gudiyatham Town, Vellore district, Tamil Nadu, to Smt. Vaidarbhi Amma and Sri Varadarajulu. Sri Bhagvan’s father was the head of the accounts department of Indian Railways citation needed [1] and his mother was an simple village woman. citation needed [1] In 1955, when Sri Bhagavan was 6 years of age, the family move to Chennai.)
Education
Sri Bhagavan attended citation needed the Don Bosco School, Madras [1]. Then graduated citation needed from Vaishnava college in Madras majoring citation needed in Mathematics. [1]
Marriage
Sri Bhagavan married Smt. Padmavathi on June 9, 1977. This was an arranged marriage following the prevalent customary practice in India for marriages decided by elders in the family. citation needed [1] Padmavathi, who is address as Amma by their students, was also a spiritual person and would take an active interest and participation citation needed in building the spiritual organization Oneness. citation needed [1]
Jeevashram School (1984 - 1994)
Jeevashram School located in Chittoor District, Andhra Pradesh was founded citation needed by Sri Bhagavan, in July 1984 to provide citation neededan alternative form of education. The land for the school was taken on a lease citation needed, with the support provided citation needed by Mr. Hari Khoday , an Indian philanthropist citation needed. As director citation needed of the school, Sri Bhagawan's focus was to develop an environment for children to truly flower and discover themselves. The school had 180 citation needed residential students and 200 citation needed day students from near by villages. [1] It was at this school that his spiritual work would begin. In the summer of 1989, one of the students reported citation needed a mystical experience of divine silence. Soon, many other students reported citation needed similar experiences, and they were also able to pass their experiences to one another. During these experiences, children had vision of various Gods and would converse with them. Sri Bhagavan explained that the children had got in touch with Antaryamin, the inner guide who dwells in your heart that guides all beings towards greater truth [1]. In 1991, Sri Bhagawan decided citation needed to close the school and start citation needed the spiritual work for the larger community. The school was closed a few years later in 1994 citation needed, after the senior students had all graduated from high school and the other students were moved to other schools. citation needed [1]
Spiritual programs for public (1991 to present)
Once the decision citation needed was made to close Jeevashram School, work started in developing the spiritual programs for the public. citation needed [1] The principal of the Jeevashram School with a small group of teachers started the spiritual programs for public citation needed. The workshops were conducted as residential retreat programs conducted over 7 days or 21 days. The workshop focused on helping the participant accept themselves as they are [2] and connect with their own inner divine self the Antaryamin [3]
A second campus was setup in 1992 citation needed near Chennai city a place called Somangalam. In 1994, the campus of Jeevashram School was renamed citation needed as Satyaloka. Advance retreat programs for public were conducted at this campus. By 1995, Sri Bhagwan's workshops were being conducted in all major cities citation needed in India, including the capital New Delhi citation needed. In 1995, the first major public event was held at Chennai city, drawing more than 100,000 students citation needed from across India. In 1999, the work on building the Oneness University citation needed [1] at Varadaiahpalem, Chitoor district Andhra Pradesh India started.
Oneness University, located 70 km from Chennai, is accessible by the National Highway 5 and is on Tirupati Road leading to the ancient temple town of Kalahasthi. In 2000, the first campus was completed and Sri Bhagawan and his team of teachers moved to the campus. Over the next few years, various campuses, including the Oneness Temple in 2008 [4] were built. In 2004, the first international program was started. citation needed [1]
As I have noted previously, Vijaykumar/'Kalki Bhagavan' and his organisation are experts at re-writing history to suit their own ends.
For what it's worth, it should be noted that there are many socially damaging aspects to his activities, and those of the Oneness organisation. Particularly in the way he and his followers have exploited superstitions about his perceived 'godman' status, enabling them to take a great deal of money over the years from poor people in India. There also seem to be significant issues in the way the organisation has treated local villagers in the area around its headquarters. There are many, many, unanswered questions about its financial dealings, and the channeling of untaxed funds for personal gain.
This so-called 'Kalki Bhagavan' is a controversial figure, and any biographical material must be rigorously sourced. Wikipedia cannot be party to any deception on behalf of him, his family, his organisation, or his followers. M Stone ( talk) 03:58, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
This is a Wikipedia page. Not your personal blog. So you are required to stick to the WP policy on neutrality and balanced coverage. Require you to read through the complete WP:BLP. Below are some notes for your quick understanding.
Prodigyhk ( talk) 17:15, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
There are a number of issues relating to Vijay Kumar's name and title. It seems that in his early years, he was quite happy to be known as 'Kalki Bhagavan'. In recent years he, and his organisation, are trying to claim that he is simply 'Sri Bhagavan'. or 'Sri Amma Bhagavan'. I believe this is related to issues with the Indian legal system, which takes a dim view of anyone claiming to be 'Kalki', (i.e. an avatar of a Hindu deity). Needless to say, it would be embarrassing for the Oneness organisation if their so-called 'avatar' was dragged in front of a court. This is also a possible explanation for describing his ashram as a 'university', as this is likely to deflect attention, and make it appear more 'secular'. I have removed any names or titles except Vijay Kumar and Kalki Bhagavan, along with references to his so-called 'university'. M Stone ( talk) 20:38, 2 April 2013 (UTC)
220.226.39.171 14:50, 10 November 2007 (UTC)Source of the Oneness Blessing Oneness Blessing originates in the consciousness of Sri Amma Bhagavan. Wherever Oneness Blessing is given in the world it sources itself in the being of Sri Amma and Sri Bhagavan. www.onenessuniversity.org This added piece of information seems important for one receiving the blessing also known as Deeksha or Diksha not all believe this above statement to qualify universaly for all forms of Deeksha.
Signed AC from USA
The "White Paper" is dated to 1998. Let me know if you see an older mention. Shii (tock) 04:05, 10 March 2010 (UTC)
Some brief points for now:
The Swedish PDF is totally unwikilike—it should not be used at all. Notes 68 and 69 in the article on the 2012 phenomenon could be useful. Also, the sentence above should be rephrased. It is hardly intelligible as it stands, nor is the wording substantiated by any reference.
Accusativen hos Olsson ( talk) 17:49, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
Hello. There is a going on thingy here. Vijaykumak has not claimed himself to be Kalki Bhagavan; that name was a popular name from villagers/popular people that are very hindu. So before Oneness University got huge, he was popularly known among population as that NICKNAME; but that name stuck - so you cannot say that NOW he is Kalki Bhagavan - THAT HAS NEVER ops sorry about the caps that has never been his fantasy name. Please reconsiver or refrain editions as well. 189.97.51.170 ( talk) 00:55, 21 November 2011 (UTC)
As we have seen some early editions on this article, there may have been unverifiable urls related to its main content. So for now on, to reffer this article meeting the Wikipedian quality, one should follow the | Terms of use as for May 25th. For more troubleshooting please visit verifiability, neutrality, and avoiding original research. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.71.230.53 ( talk) 14:10, 27 April 2012 (UTC)
The issue going on around who is "Kalki" or not may have created a new mithology around a person. Please, for now on, take a look at this wikiarticle to get a small enlightenment for your intelectuality:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickname#Famous.2Ffictional_character
187.12.26.206 (
talk)
10:32, 3 July 2012 (UTC)
Previous edit as for Sept. 19th on section "==DARSHAN==" mentions: "The price for a standard darshan with Bhagavan is Rs.5 [...] for group darshan [...] is [...] Rs.5,000 and Rs. 20,000 for one-to-one darshan, as for March 2010."
The reference n. 6 is: (quote)indiasummary.com...(quote: see on history/prev's edit) .:This article on indiassummary.com is based on a "Tehelka report" but does not cite references. So, such report must be ref.'ed directly:.
CONCLUSION: Reference on item 6 leads to original research within the quality of opinion; in addition, must refer directly to the Tehelka report instead of relaying an article that mentions this report without a direct link. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 187.12.26.206 ( talk) 10:43, 21 September 2012 (UTC)
Had included a section "influence", with details of some prominent people who are students of Sri Bhagavan. In this section, had referred to articles from national newspapers in India, including The Times of India and The Indian Express and The Hindu. Listed here are some of the links that had been referred to [2] [3] [4]
I find that this entire section has been deleted by "MatthewTStone" has deleted with the comments "Reverting to version minus junk references etc"
@MathewTStone, Request to explain the reasoning for deletion. Do let me know your suggestions on how to improve the quality of my writing. Thanks for your attention -- Prodigyhk ( talk) 06:23, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
@MathewTStone, Please maintain the standard. Not only is the article you had reinstated filled with unreliable sources. It was a clear case of vandalism with WRONG and INSULTING information, mentioning that the subject is also known as "Lauda Kameena Chand". --> This is a very insulting word in local Indian language. We can not accept such deplorable and bad language in Wikipedia
Note - This entire section was first inserted on 15/Jan by user 46.9.71.74. It was immediately discovered as vandalism by administrator USER:Garion96 and removed. But, the user 46.9.71.74 has been persistent and keeps re-inserting. I have just followed the administrator and removed it when it was again inserted.
So, please read the material and also history before you start making your additions
Prodigyhk (
talk)
16:31, 20 January 2013 (UTC)
New section to be included - This is work in progress. Will be adding more material over the next few days. Do put in your comments and criticism here before I post it to the article page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Prodigyhk ( talk • contribs) 14:25, 21 March 2013 (UTC)
Sri Bhagavan was born on 7 March 1949 as Vijay Kumar, in Natham Village, Gudiyatham Town, Vellore district, Tamil Nadu, to Smt. Vaidarbhi Amma and Sri Varadarajulu. Sri Bhagvan’s father was the head of the accounts department of Indian Railways [5] and his mother was an simple village woman. [5] In 1955, when Sri Bhagavan was 6 years of age, the family move to Chennai.
Sri Bhagavan attended the Don Bosco School, Madras [5]. Then,graduated from Vaishnava college in Madras majoring in Mathematics. [5]
Sri Bhagavan married Smt. Padmavathi on June 9, 1977. This was an arranged marriage following the prevalent customary practice in India for marriages decided by elders in the family. [5] Padmavathi, who is address as Amma by their students, was also a spiritual person and would take an active interest and participation in building the spiritual organization Oneness. [5]
Jeevashram School located in Chittoor District, Andhra Pradesh was founded by Sri Bhagavan, in July 1984 to provide an alternative form of education. The land for the school was taken on a lease, with the support provided by Mr. Hari Khoday , an Indian philanthropist. As director of the school, Sri Bhagawan's focus was to develop an environment for children to truly flower and discover themselves. The school had 180 residential students and 200 day students from near by villages. [5] It was at this school that his spiritual work would begin. In the summer of 1989, one of the students reported a mystical experience of divine silence. Soon, many other students reported similar experiences, and they were also able to pass their experiences to one another. During these experiences, children had vision of various Gods and would converse with them. Sri Bhagavan explained that the children had got in touch with Antaryamin, the inner guide who dwells in your heart that guides all beings towards greater truth [5]. In 1991, Sri Bhagawan decided to close the school and start the spiritual work for the larger community. The school was closed a few years later in 1994, after the senior students had all graduated from high school and the other students were moved to other schools. [5]
Once the decision was made to close Jeevashram School, work started in developing the spiritual programs for the public. [5] The principal of the Jeevashram School with a small group of teachers started the spiritual programs for public. The workshops were conducted as residential retreat programs conducted over 7 days or 21 days. The workshop focused on helping the participant accept themselves as they are [6] and connect with their own inner divine self the Antaryamin [7]
A second campus was setup in 1992 near Chennai city a place called Somangalam. In 1994, the campus of Jeevashram School was renamed as Satyaloka. Advance retreat programs for public were conducted at this campus. By 1995, Sri Bhagwan's workshops were being conducted in all major cities in India, including the capital New Delhi. In 1995, the first major public event was held at Chennai city, drawing more than 100,000 students from across India. In 1999, the work on building the Oneness University [5] at Varadaiahpalem, Chitoor district Andhra Pradesh India started. Oneness University, located 70 km from Chennai, is accessible by the National Highway 5 and is on Tirupati Road leading to the ancient temple town of Kalahasthi. In 2000, the first campus was completed and Sri Bhagawan and his team of teachers moved to the campus. Over the next few years, various campuses, including the Oneness Temple in 2008 [8] were built. In 2004, the first international program was started. [5]
--->>> Have added my comments in new section. MStone 07:13, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Mathew, The reference list picks up a few reference from earlier posting due to WP setting. Please take care not to get confused during review. The reference for this section only starts from Argadh Prodigyhk ( talk) 06:46, 26 March 2013 (UTC)
A question has been raised about http://www.asiantribune.com/news/2010/01/14/two-kalki-ashram-inmates-found-dead It seems Asian Tribune is cited in 500 Google Books. Not an enormous number but enough to show that asiantribune.com is regarded as a reliable source. World Institute for Asian Studies (WIAS) doesn't immediately appear to have an agenda. Comment anyone? In ictu oculi ( talk) 12:25, 24 March 2013 (UTC)
I have reverted those changes I'm afraid. We already had the discussion about his follower's biography. Generally we don't encourage followers of a controversial living figure to edit their BLP page extensively, which means that from now on changes should be discussed here first. The one change that does seem to have a case is that the crowd included CPI members, but then CPI is fairly mainstream in Chittoor, no reason why the crowd shouldn't. In ictu oculi ( talk) 05:24, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
We need to be mindful that the subject of this article is the very head of a very wealthy organisation which would not hesitate to use Wikipedia as a publicity vehicle to further its commercial aims.
Most of the recently-removed Biography Section read as a sanitised Public Relations piece designed to perpetuate the mythology of its subject and his commercial activities.
It was also rather poorly sourced. According to WP:BLP, material must be "attributed to a reliable, published source" and its guidelines apply whether the "material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable…"
In particular, it relies heavily on Primary Sources. Please refer to WP:PRIMARY which defines Primary Sources as including those which "are original materials that are close to an event, and are often accounts written by people who are directly involved".
Books fitting this description are Deeksha: The Fire from Heaven and Awakening into Oneness, which were both written by authors who became initiates/devotees of Kalki Bhagavan and were involved with the Oneness organisation through attending its courses. The organisation also appears to have endorsed these books in one way or another, which doesn't say much for the books' independence.
Moving on, the sources that are not WP:PRIMARY are a fairly rag-tag bunch (a clean up is in order, some links don't seem to go anywhere).
Strangely absent was anything that undermined the mythology of this so-called 'Bhagavan'. For example, why was there no mention of suggestions that Vijay Kumar, as he was then called, was at one time a mid-level administrator expelled from a Krishnamurti school? Or that he spent time as an insurance clerk? Or even maybe as a lowly rice seller? What about his alleged links to property developers?
Incidentally, the article could definitely use some coverage of his 'predictions', which never seem to come true – such as 'the ending of most religions' by 2012.
An overview of the citations is as follows:
^ Christian Aubert Du treizième baktun à la Terre. Not in English or apparently even very relevant to the subject matter. According to Amazon [2] the author appears to mainly have written a series of Language translation books.
^ Geoff Stray 2012 In Your Pocket 2009 - Page 12. This author [3] has written a series of books about 'predictions' for the year 2012. He doesn't appear to be much of an authority on anything much. I note that 2012 came to an end several months ago.
^ Keta Meera Sahebu Author appears to be a blogger [4] using WP for publicity. See author's User Talk page [5]. Referring to Google Books, his 'book' appears to be an amateurish collection of tertiary references.
^ Luis González Reimann [6] Cannot comment. Source provided returns a 404 Error but appears to be some kind of blog
^ Vicente Merlo Cannot comment. However, getting a bit desperate if we can't find decent references in English.
^ Kiara Windrider Deeksha: The Fire from Heaven Appears to be a Primary Source [7] Foreword is written by representatives of the organisation. Book based on the author's personal experiences, plus a series of interviews with fellow devotees at Oneness University.
^ http://www.onenessuniversity.org/index.php/about-us/founders Primary Source [8] – Completely unacceptable – organisation's own advertising and publicity material cannot be relied upon as a WP source.
^ a b c d e f g h i j k l Arjuna Ardagh Awakening into Oneness Appears to be a Primary Source [9]. Author was invited by Oneness Organisation to undergo its program and write the book. See [10].
^[www.lifepositive.com/Spirit/Sri_Bhagwan_Kalki/The_School_for_Enlightenment92006.asp] Appears to be a blog aggregation website or commercial site selling products/services
^ http://religion.info/english/documents/article_388.shtml#.UU8c8Bn652E A bit better overall. At least the coverage by Ramesh Avadhani shows a degree of balance.
Editor @prodigyhk, Wikipedia is not a publicity vehicle for organisations wanting to peddle their wares. MatthewTStone ( talk) 06:45, 25 March 2013 (UTC)
Editor @ProdigyHK, almost every significant point in this biographical section is contestable and cannot appear on Wikipedia in its current form. For its key points, it relies almost exclusively on a single source, Ardagh, that is very close to the subject of the article, Vijay Kumar/'Kalki Bhagavan'.
To give one example of the source's unreliability, according to this author, Vijay Kumar/'Kalki Bhagavan' was the sole 'founder' of the Jeevashram School.
However, as even a bit of perfunctory research will reveal, there are are one or more other individuals in India who are claiming to be closely involved with the founding of the school, and may want to be known as co-founders. These individuals have had a very serious falling out with VK/KB, and have been very public in doing so. Over the years, they have been highly critical of his actions.
If Ardagh cannot be relied upon as a source in this fundamental point, it demonstrates quite adequately that his book is not a reliable source for anything else. (Incidentally, Wikipedia can be leaving itself open to legal action from such individuals if it publishes unsourced biographical material.)
By his own admission, the author was a VIP guest of VK/KB who has endorsed the book. So the author is merely repeating, in parrot fashion, what he has been told by VK/KB or his followers. In other words, the book is a very low grade Primary Source about a highly controversial subject.
There also seem to be many gaps in this biography, e.g. VK/KB's employment by the Life Insurance Corporation of India, and as a vendor selling rice. At another point in his life, VK/KB appears to have been in employment as a low to mid-level administrator in J. Krishnamurti's Rishi Valley School. There are suggestions that he was fired from that position.
I believe these periods, and others, have been excluded because they do not sound impressive and do not fit with the messianic 'life quest' of VK/KB's mythology. Such omitting of 'unimpressive' information is time-worn literary device for placing emphasis on the more 'impressive' aspects of the subject matter at hand. It is sometimes called 'cherry picking'. (See WP:CHERRY and WP:UNDUE)
Furthermore, as another example of WP:UNDUE: there is nothing remarkable in the Family Background section, and it appears to have been created as a literary device, as part of the 'messianic' story. It serves to contrast the subject's latter-day 'god-like' status with his 'humble' birth and origins. Please also see WP:V and WP:BLP.
Also refer to WP:UNDUE regarding the 'Jeevashram School'. A lot of weight seems to be placed on this school, which does not itself appear particularly notable as an institution.
In the section 'Spiritual programs for public (1991 to present)' there also seems to be a lot of non-biographical detail about programs and campuses, and it even provides directions for reaching the temple/campus. In parts, it reads like an advertisement. I refer you also to WP:NOTADVERTISING#ADVERTISING and WP:SOAP
As I have said, almost every contestable point in this 'biography' relies on one, single, Primary Source, Ardagh's book. And that book aside, most of the other sources being cited here are merely pointing to topics such as low level trivia about Bollywood movie stars praying at the ashram, etc., and do nothing whatsoever for the veracity of this biographical material. There is also a PDF, apparently in Swedish (what is it about? This is an English publication).
As highlighted previously, part from what is being discussed here, the only reasonably independent sources being cited on the Kalki Bhagavan main page are news organisations such as The Hindu, India Times, and The Statesman. However, almost all of the material from these independent sources is raising questions about this individual and his organisation.
@ProdigyHK, it is significant that you have, at times, resorted to edit wars to try and prevent such sources being used, and somewhat suggests there may be a conflict of interest. Please see WP:COI.
The burden now rests with you to provide adequate, independent references for this biographical material.
Please note, in the following, in many cases I have placed a citation needed template against specific words. This means if the template is after the word 'founded', I would like to see a reference that says KB/VK was solely responsible for 'founding' the school, and did not 'co-found' it with other individuals; if it is next to the word 'decision', it means I would like a reference that he 'made a decision' to close the school, and that the decision was not forced upon him by external factors; if is next to 'majored' then the reference should support the assertion that he 'majored' in mathematics, etc., throughout :
Biography
Early years (1949 - 1983)
Family background
Sri Bhagavan was born on 7 March 1949 as Vijay Kumar, in Natham Village, Gudiyatham Town, Vellore district, Tamil Nadu, to Smt. Vaidarbhi Amma and Sri Varadarajulu. Sri Bhagvan’s father was the head of the accounts department of Indian Railways citation needed [1] and his mother was an simple village woman. citation needed [1] In 1955, when Sri Bhagavan was 6 years of age, the family move to Chennai.)
Education
Sri Bhagavan attended citation needed the Don Bosco School, Madras [1]. Then graduated citation needed from Vaishnava college in Madras majoring citation needed in Mathematics. [1]
Marriage
Sri Bhagavan married Smt. Padmavathi on June 9, 1977. This was an arranged marriage following the prevalent customary practice in India for marriages decided by elders in the family. citation needed [1] Padmavathi, who is address as Amma by their students, was also a spiritual person and would take an active interest and participation citation needed in building the spiritual organization Oneness. citation needed [1]
Jeevashram School (1984 - 1994)
Jeevashram School located in Chittoor District, Andhra Pradesh was founded citation needed by Sri Bhagavan, in July 1984 to provide citation neededan alternative form of education. The land for the school was taken on a lease citation needed, with the support provided citation needed by Mr. Hari Khoday , an Indian philanthropist citation needed. As director citation needed of the school, Sri Bhagawan's focus was to develop an environment for children to truly flower and discover themselves. The school had 180 citation needed residential students and 200 citation needed day students from near by villages. [1] It was at this school that his spiritual work would begin. In the summer of 1989, one of the students reported citation needed a mystical experience of divine silence. Soon, many other students reported citation needed similar experiences, and they were also able to pass their experiences to one another. During these experiences, children had vision of various Gods and would converse with them. Sri Bhagavan explained that the children had got in touch with Antaryamin, the inner guide who dwells in your heart that guides all beings towards greater truth [1]. In 1991, Sri Bhagawan decided citation needed to close the school and start citation needed the spiritual work for the larger community. The school was closed a few years later in 1994 citation needed, after the senior students had all graduated from high school and the other students were moved to other schools. citation needed [1]
Spiritual programs for public (1991 to present)
Once the decision citation needed was made to close Jeevashram School, work started in developing the spiritual programs for the public. citation needed [1] The principal of the Jeevashram School with a small group of teachers started the spiritual programs for public citation needed. The workshops were conducted as residential retreat programs conducted over 7 days or 21 days. The workshop focused on helping the participant accept themselves as they are [2] and connect with their own inner divine self the Antaryamin [3]
A second campus was setup in 1992 citation needed near Chennai city a place called Somangalam. In 1994, the campus of Jeevashram School was renamed citation needed as Satyaloka. Advance retreat programs for public were conducted at this campus. By 1995, Sri Bhagwan's workshops were being conducted in all major cities citation needed in India, including the capital New Delhi citation needed. In 1995, the first major public event was held at Chennai city, drawing more than 100,000 students citation needed from across India. In 1999, the work on building the Oneness University citation needed [1] at Varadaiahpalem, Chitoor district Andhra Pradesh India started.
Oneness University, located 70 km from Chennai, is accessible by the National Highway 5 and is on Tirupati Road leading to the ancient temple town of Kalahasthi. In 2000, the first campus was completed and Sri Bhagawan and his team of teachers moved to the campus. Over the next few years, various campuses, including the Oneness Temple in 2008 [4] were built. In 2004, the first international program was started. citation needed [1]
As I have noted previously, Vijaykumar/'Kalki Bhagavan' and his organisation are experts at re-writing history to suit their own ends.
For what it's worth, it should be noted that there are many socially damaging aspects to his activities, and those of the Oneness organisation. Particularly in the way he and his followers have exploited superstitions about his perceived 'godman' status, enabling them to take a great deal of money over the years from poor people in India. There also seem to be significant issues in the way the organisation has treated local villagers in the area around its headquarters. There are many, many, unanswered questions about its financial dealings, and the channeling of untaxed funds for personal gain.
This so-called 'Kalki Bhagavan' is a controversial figure, and any biographical material must be rigorously sourced. Wikipedia cannot be party to any deception on behalf of him, his family, his organisation, or his followers. M Stone ( talk) 03:58, 27 March 2013 (UTC)
This is a Wikipedia page. Not your personal blog. So you are required to stick to the WP policy on neutrality and balanced coverage. Require you to read through the complete WP:BLP. Below are some notes for your quick understanding.
Prodigyhk ( talk) 17:15, 31 March 2013 (UTC)
There are a number of issues relating to Vijay Kumar's name and title. It seems that in his early years, he was quite happy to be known as 'Kalki Bhagavan'. In recent years he, and his organisation, are trying to claim that he is simply 'Sri Bhagavan'. or 'Sri Amma Bhagavan'. I believe this is related to issues with the Indian legal system, which takes a dim view of anyone claiming to be 'Kalki', (i.e. an avatar of a Hindu deity). Needless to say, it would be embarrassing for the Oneness organisation if their so-called 'avatar' was dragged in front of a court. This is also a possible explanation for describing his ashram as a 'university', as this is likely to deflect attention, and make it appear more 'secular'. I have removed any names or titles except Vijay Kumar and Kalki Bhagavan, along with references to his so-called 'university'. M Stone ( talk) 20:38, 2 April 2013 (UTC)