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I am a bit puzzled by what she claims was her previous name. Was her birth name really 'Padmavathi', or 'Padmavati', which, according to the prophesies, is the name of Vishnu's consort? Or was this yet another made up name, which she adopted, in an effort to gain followers, when VK was claiming to be Kalki? merlinVtwelve ( talk) 22:33, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
As most of the information on this page has been consolidated after much discussions, I think it is time to remove the neutrality tag, if editors don't have objections. Keepit real ( talk) 19:15, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
I've restored the tag as there are some obvious neutrality problems with the current article. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 01:38, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
As of 2010, Christianity had an estimated 2.2 billion followers worldwide, while Islam had 1.6 billion. Hinduism had around 1 billion. These numbers are predicted to grow substantially in the coming decades.which seem to just be there to make him look even worse. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 18:04, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
It’s easy to create negative environment with this kind of article. Sri bhagavan works tirelessly to create positive environment to prepare people solve their own challenges and protect the earth. This statement is based on my personal experience and many other followers. Kindly block this article and the users to help humanity. They don’t even realize that he is working for their better life and future generation.
If you can’t block, please let me know action how to block this false propaganda permanently Arunmohan79 ( talk) 01:16, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
There are several reasons why I believe this article in its current form is an attack page. Point by point below:
list of arguments about what is wrong with the sources on this page
Analysis of references | |
1. Nadkarni, Vithal C. (2008) "Oneness to the rescue of a world in peril". The Economic Times. | Opinion piece, called out at the start |
2. From humble beginning to Godman Kalki". www.outlookindia.com/. Retrieved 6 August 2021. | Link wrong |
3. "Mystic and the moolah". The Week. Retrieved 1 March 2020. | Opinion piece |
4. "Bhagwan Kalki Life Positive". lifepositive.com. Retrieved 23 May 2020. | Opinion piece |
5. "The cult of Kalki". mm-gold.azureedge.net. Retrieved 23 May 2020. | Opinion piece. Logical fallacy There is a logical fallacy right at the start of the article - it says cults are bad. It then says Kalki Bhagavan is a cult and then therefore it is bad. But no proof or logical arguments are provided as to why it is a cult. |
6. "How Kalki gave me a story, but not an Aishwarya look-alike". Times of India Blog. 4 November 2019. Retrieved 23 May 2020. | Blog post/ Opinion piece. Is this serious? Why is a blog post allowed as an established source? |
7. "The Kalki Craze Outlook India Magazine". Retrieved 23 May 2020. | Opinion piece |
8. Shobha, V (November 2019). "The cult of Kalki Bhagavan". Open The Magazine. Retrieved 23 May 2020. | Opinion piece in a magazine |
9. "IT seizes Rs 33 cr from premises of godman Kalki Bhagwan and son". Hindustan Times. 18 October 2019. Retrieved 28 June 2020. | This is a news report. Good, only objection I have is the use of the term Godman is never justified in the title. |
10. "The cult of Kalki". mm-gold.azureedge.net. Retrieved 28 November 2020. | Duplicate, same as 5 |
11. "The Cult of Kalki Bhagavan". Open The Magazine. 1 November 2019. Retrieved 28 November 2020. | Duplicate, same as 8 |
12. "Inside godman Kalki Bhagwan's world: Bollywood celebs, real estate and drugs". The Week. Retrieved 28 November 2020 | Opinion piece. Allegations and hand wavy, tying to Bollywoood and drugs is textbook tying to association |
13. Thorsén, Elin. "Oneness of Different Kinds: A Comparative Study of Amma and Bhagavan's Oneness Movement in India and Sweden"(PDF). Gothenburg University Publications Electronic Archive. Retrieved 8 May 2020. | This is fine, looks like a university student’s investigative paper but none of the results seemed strange.
On page 70 the author did say that such a movement is not strange in India |
14. Kalki, Cult of (November 2019). "Cult of Kalki". Open Magazine. Open Magazine. | Duplicate, same as 8 |
15. "life positive". lifepositive.com. Religioscope. | Broken link |
16. "India: a visit to the Oneness Temple of Amma-Bhagwan". Religioscope. 13 July 2008. | Opinion piece. Do look at at least the last sentence in the last paragraph - “the guide sounded honest” |
17. Founders, OO academy. "OO Academy Founders". OO Academy. OO Academy. Retrieved 8 May 2020. | Not a safe link |
18. OM, WRSP. "WRSP – OM". WRSP. WRSP. Retrieved 8 May 2020. | This looks ok, I don’t have a specific objection |
19. "The Cult of Kalki Bhagavan". Open The Magazine. 1 November 2019. Retrieved 10 October 2021. | Duplicate, same as 8 |
20. "The Cult of Kalki Bhagavan". Open The Magazine. 1 November 2019. Retrieved 9 May2020. | Duplicate, same as 8 |
21. Arun Ram (17 June 2002). "Kalki Bhagwan controversy: Tamil Nadu-based godman encounters spate of accusations". India Today. Retrieved 10 October 2021. | Opinion piece |
22. "Mystic and the moolah". The Week. Retrieved 9 February 2020. | Duplicate, same as 3 |
23. "Income Tax Department conducts Search on a 'wellness group' in Chennai". Pib.gov.in. 16 October 2019. Retrieved 1 March 2020. | No arguments here, government report |
24. DTNext, Publisher (20 December 2019). "907 acres linked to Kalki ashram attached". DT Next. DT Next. Archived from the originalon 11 June 2020. Retrieved 10 May 2020. | News report, reasonable |
25. "900 acres of land owned by godman Kalki attached". Deccan Herald. 20 December 2019. Retrieved 10 May 2020. | Again a news report, reasonable except for the Godman pejorative |
26. Vijayakumar, Sanjay (19 December 2019). "907 acres of land belonging to Kalki group attached". The Hindu. Retrieved 10 May 2020. | News report, not fully public so cannot comment but seems ok |
27. Dec 21, B. Sivakumar. "Kalki Bhagavan case: 900 acres of benami land attached by I-T Chennai News – Times of India". The Times of India. Retrieved 10 May 2020. | Again a news report, reasonable except for the Godman pejorative |
28. "'Kalki' Bhagwan hospitalised". The Hindu. 1 December 2019. ISSN 0971-751X. Retrieved 9 February 2020. | News report, not fully public so cannot comment but seems ok |
29. "India: a visit to the Oneness Temple of Amma-Bhagwan". Religioscope. 13 July 2008. Retrieved 6 June 2020. | Duplicate, same as 16 |
30. Preethaji; Krishnaji (6 August 2019). The Four Sacred Secrets: For Love and Prosperity, A Guide to Living in a Beautiful State. Simon and Schuster. ISBN 978-1-5011-7379-0. | |
31. "Publishers Weekly". publishersweekly.com. Retrieved 9 May 2020. | Book review of a book by Kalki Bhagavan’s son. Why is this relevant? |
31. "Society once had religion to give it purpose. Now it has wellness coaches". British GQ. 12 January 2020. Retrieved 9 May 2020. | Again an opinion piece |
32. Shobha, V (1 November 2019). "The Cult of Kalki Bhagavan". Open The Magazine. Retrieved 16 May 2020. | Duplicate, same as 8 |
33. Thorsen, Elin. "Oneness of Different Kinds: A Comparative Study of Amma and Bhagavan's Oneness Movement in India and Sweden"(PDF). GUPEA. Retrieved 16 May 2020. | duplicate |
34. Ardagh, Arjuna. (2010). Ontwaken in eenheid : de kracht van de oneness blessing in de evolutie van ons bewustzijn. Wel, Anna van der. Houten: Zwerk. ISBN 978-90-77478-32-5. OCLC 662568093. | duplciate |
35. "Oneness Movement – WRSP". | Broken link |
36. S, Jayaseelan K. (19 October 2019). "The rise of 'Kalki' Bhagwan: From an LIC agent to a self-proclaimed 'avatar'". The Federal. Retrieved 24 May 2020. | Opinion piece |
38. "Chinese Actress Deletes Her Weibo Post Promoting 'Controversial Indian Spiritual Courses'". News18. 17 January 2019. Retrieved 14 May 2020. | Again there is no way that the deletion of a social media post is relevant to a human being’s 75 year life span. I am finding this irrelevant |
39. "After Taiwanese Actor's Post, China Warns About Indian 'Cults'". The Quint. 17 January 2019. Retrieved 14 May 2020. | 40. This is not a news report, it is an opinion piece. One of the problems straight away is a comparison of this with another organization of Ram Rahim. Why is this a valid comparison is not specified. |
40. "Mystic and the moolah". The Week. Retrieved 19 May 2020. | Duplicate, same as 3 |
41. "After marathon Income Tax raid, godman Kalki Bhagwan faces ED heat". Hindustan Times. 24 October 2019. Retrieved 15 May 2020. | News report, ok |
42. Thorsen, Elin. "Oneness of Different Kinds: A Comparative Study of Amma and Bhagavan's Oneness Movement in India and Sweden"(PDF). GUPEA. Goteborgs Universitet. Retrieved 15 May 2020. | Duplicate |
43. S, Jayaseelan K. (19 October 2019). "The rise of 'Kalki' Bhagwan: From an LIC agent to a self-proclaimed 'avatar'". The Federal | Opinion piece. |
44. Swamy, Rohini (22 October 2019). "Kalki Bhagavan, guru who started as LIC clerk & now has 'undisclosed income' of Rs 500 cr". ThePrint. Retrieved 29 June 2020. | Opinion piece, though initially a news report |
45. Newcombe, Suzanne; Harvey, Sarah (15 April 2016). Prophecy in the New Millennium: When Prophecies Persist. Routledge. ISBN 978-1-317-07459-5. | Can’t read book but ok |
46. Townsend, R. Lataine (4 January 2012). 2013: Beginning an Era of Hope and Harmony. BalboaPress. ISBN 978-1-4525-4342-0. | Can’t read book but ok |
47. Ganguli, Aurijit (30 May 2020). The Shambala Sutras. Notion Press. ISBN 978-1-64892-982-3. | This is about a different Kalki, not relevant |
48. "Bhagwan Kalki Life Positive". lifepositive.com. Retrieved 2 July2020 | .Duplicate |
49. "Investigators seize more than $14 million from spiritual guru Kalki Bhagavan – EasternEye". 22 October 2019. Retrieved 28 June 2020. | initially a news report but later opinion piece - again a comparison with unrelated Ram Rahim is provided |
50. Cowan, Douglas E. (2 September 2009). Corrigan, John (ed.). "New Religious Movements". Oxford Handbooks Online: 125–140. doi: 10.1093/oxfordhb/9780195170214.003.0008. ISBN 978-0195170214. | Don’t have access to this, but even this agrees ‘cult ‘ is a pejorative |
51. "Who is Samael Aun Weor?". Samael.org. Retrieved 25 December 2017. | 404 page not found |
52. Sikand, Yoginder (2008). Pseudo-messianic movements in contemporary Muslim South Asia. Global Media Publications. p. 100. | 2 problems even without having read the book - firstly Kalki Bhagavan is in India and India is not a Muslim country |
53. Juergensmeyer, Mark (2006). Oxford Handbook of Global Religions. Oxford: Oxford University Press. p. 520. ISBN 978-0-19-513798-9. ISBN (Ten digit): 0195137981. | Not available to read but ok |
54. "The Kalki Craze Outlook India Magazine". outlookindia.com/. Retrieved 7 July2020. | Duplicate |
55. Sri Bhagavan Interview hosted by Mitchell Jay Rabin for A Better World TV early in 2005, retrieved 8 April 2020 | Interview, reasonable |
56. site admin (17 June 2002). "Cult in crisis – RELIGION News – Issue Date: Jun 17, 2002". Indiatoday.in. Retrieved 11 April 2020. | Opinion piece. |
57. Nayak, Narendra. "The cult of Kalki by Narendra Nayak". mm-gold.azureedge.net. Retrieved 16 May 2020. | Duplicate |
58. Arun Ram (17 June 2002). "Kalki Bhagwan controversy: Tamil Nadu-based godman encounters spate of accusations". India Today. Retrieved 25 June 2020. | Duplicate |
59. "Who is Kalki Bhagwan Who Once Predicted Death of Organised Religions and Now Faces I-T Heat?". News18. 22 October 2019. Retrieved 6 March 2020. | Duplicate |
60. "The Future of World Religions: Population Growth Projections, 2010–2050". Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project. 2 April 2015. Retrieved 25 June 2020. | No objections |
61. "The Future of World Religions: Population Growth Projections, 2010–2050". Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project. 2 April 2015. Retrieved 25 June 2020. | Duplicate, same as 60 |
62. Windrider, Kiara; Sears, Grace (2009). Deeksha: The Fire from Heaven. New World Library. ISBN 978-1-57731-724-1. | |
63. Windrider, Kiara; Sears, Grace (2009). Deeksha: The Fire from Heaven. New World Library. ISBN 978-1-57731-724-1. | Duplicate, same as 62 |
64. Ardagh, Arjuna (1 April 2009). Awakening into Oneness: The Power of Blessing in the Evolution of Consciousness. Sounds True. ISBN 978-1-59179-864-4. | Duplicate |
65. Calleman, Ph.D, Carl (16 July 2015). "The Mayan Calendar & The Transformation of Consciousness". A Better World. Retrieved 13 June 2020. | Book, ok |
66. Roth, Ron; Montgomery, Roger (2007). The Sacred Light of Healing: Teachings and Meditations on Divine Oneness. iUniverse. ISBN 978-0-595-44896-8. | Book, ok |
67. Nadkarni, Vithal C. (26 January 2008). "Oneness to the rescue of a world in peril". The Economic Times. Retrieved 11 April 2020. | Duplicate |
68. Imranullah, Mohamed (22 November 2019). "'Kalki' Bhagavan's daughter-in-law moves HC against 'look out circular'". The Hindu. ISSN 0971-751X. Retrieved 26 April 2020. | Duplicate |
69. "Rs 44 cr cash, 90 kg gold, Rs 20 cr worth US dollars seized in I-T raids on properties linked to spiritual guru Kalki Bhagwan". DNA India. 21 October 2019. | Duplicate |
70. "The Cult of Kalki Bhagavan". Open The Magazine. 1 November 2019. Retrieved 6 May2020. | Duplicate, same as 8 |
71. Ardagh, Arjuna (29 October 2009). Awakening Into Oneness: The Power of Blessing in the Evolution of Consciousness. ReadHowYouWant.com. ISBN 978-1-4587-3614-7. | Duplicate |
72. "Bhagwan Kalki Life Positive". lifepositive.com. Retrieved 9 May 2020. | Duplicate |
73. Convened Insiders, Maverick (6 February 2020). "A controversial babu, a godman, film producers: Meet the faces behind the INR16,000 crore bid for RCom – ET Prime". ET. ET Prime. | Again this uses the Godman pejorative, not relevant also |
74. "The Cult of Kalki Bhagavan". Open The Magazine. 1 November 2019. Retrieved 4 May2020. | Duplicate, same as 8 |
75. "Nairobi's tallest building planned". Deccan Herald. 22 December 2016. Retrieved 3 May2020. | This has no mention of Kalki Bhagavan. It mentions the White Lotus group which he is allegedly part of, but that has its own Wikipedia article |
76. "Hilton kicks off second Nairobi high-end hotel". Business Daily. 23 May 2017. Retrieved 2 May 2020. | No mention of Kalki Bhagavan. It mentions the White Lotus group which he is allegedly part of, but that has its own Wikipedia article |
77. Monks, Kieron (23 June 2017). "Work begins on the tallest skyscraper in Africa". CNN. Retrieved 3 May 2020. | No mention of Kalki Bhagavan. It mentions the White Lotus group which he is allegedly part of, but that has its own Wikipedia article |
78. "Africa's tallest building aims to be a standout". The Business Times. 24 September 2019. Retrieved 3 May 2020 | Not a public link |
79. Wambu, Wainaina. "Nairobi's elegant office space that no one wants". The Standard. Retrieved 3 May 2020. | Link doesn’t work |
80. "Dubai tycoons sought for contempt of court". Kenyan Tribune. 7 February 2019. Retrieved 3 May 2020. | Link doesn’t work |
81. "Dubai tycoons sought for contempt of court". Daily Nation. Retrieved 4 May 2020. | No mention of Kalki Bhagavan It mentions the White Lotus group which he is allegedly part of, but that has its own Wikipedia article |
82. "Vacant school about 1 mile west of the former Northridge Mall proposed for 100 affordable apartments". Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. Retrieved 2 May 2020. | No mention of Kalki Bhagavan. It mentions the White Lotus group which he is allegedly part of, but that has its own Wikipedia article |
83. "Dubai investors inject $200 million into Africa's tallest tower". africa.businesschief.com. Retrieved 6 May 2020. | Link doesn’t work |
84. "Hotel Deco XV is Deco'd out". smallmarketmeetings.com. 11 October 2013. Retrieved 9 May 2020. | No mention of Kalki Bhagavan. It mentions the White Lotus group which he is allegedly part of, but that has its own Wikipedia article |
85. Thorsen, Elin. "Oneness of Different Kinds: A Comparative Study of Amma and Bhagavan's Oneness Movement in India and Sweden"(PDF). GUPEA. Goteborgs Universitet. Retrieved 15 May 2020. | Duplicate link |
86. "Bangalore franchise kabaddi team launched". Business Standard India. IANS. 16 July 2014. Retrieved 3 May 2020. | No mention of Kalki Bhagavan. It mentions the White Lotus group which he is allegedly part of, but that has its own Wikipedia article |
87. Kosmik Music – YouTube | Youtube channel |
88. The Cult of Kalki Bhagavan – Open The Magazine | Duplicate - same as 8 |
89. "Studio-N Channel Locked Out?". 9 July 2018. | Only mention of Kalki Bhagavan is that it involves people who are “apparently” belonging to the Kalki religious organization. Why is that relevant to this article? Is it relevant to mention a Microsoft member in a biography on Bill Gates? |
90. Suares, Coreena (16 October 2019). "IT Sleuths search Kalki Bhagavan's properties in Hyderabad". NewsMeter. Retrieved 6 May2020. | |
91. June 17, Arun Ram; June 17, Arun Ram; August 6, Arun Ram; Ist, Arun Ram. "Kalki Bhagwan controversy: Tamil Nadu-based godman encounters spate of accusations". India Today. Retrieved 17 May 2020. | Duplicate |
92. Correspondent, Legal (3 February 2004). "Plea for CBI probe against godman turned down". The Hindu. [1] " | The case was turned down! |
93. "How Kalki gave me a story, but not an Aishwarya look-alike". Times of India Blog. 4 November 2019. Retrieved 10 June 2020. | Duplicate |
94. "Mystic and the moolah". The Week. Retrieved 1 May 2020. | Duplicate, same as 3 |
95. Rangarajan, A. d (22 October 2019). "We have not fled the country, says Kalki Bhagavan, after I-T raids on his premises". The Hindu. ISSN 0971-751X. Retrieved 1 May 2020. | This is a news report, again uses the word Godman unjustifiably |
96. Imranullah, Mohamed (22 November 2019). "'Kalki' Bhagavan's daughter-in-law moves HC against 'look out circular'". The Hindu. ISSN 0971-751X. Retrieved 9 April 2020. | Not fully public but looks technical enough |
97. Sivakumar, B. (21 December 2019). "Kalki Bhagavan case: 900 acres of benami land attached by I-T". The Times of India. Retrieved 9 April 2020. | Duplicate |
98. Windrider, Kiara (2006). Deeksha: The Fire from Heaven. New World Library. ISBN 978-1-930722-70-5. | Duplicate, same as 62 |
99. Ardagh, Arjuna (29 October 2009). Awakening Into Oneness: The Power of Blessing in the Evolution of Consciousness. ReadHowYouWant.com. ISBN 978-1-4587-3614-7. | Duplicate |
100. Reily, Suzel Ana; Dueck, Jonathan M. (16 March 2016). The Oxford Handbook of Music and World Christianities. Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-0-19-986000-5. | There was nothing in the linked page about Kalki Bhagavan |
101. S, Jayaseelan K. (19 October 2019). "The rise of 'Kalki' Bhagwan: From an LIC agent to a self-proclaimed 'avatar'". The Federal. Retrieved 7 August 2020. | Duplicate |
102. "Narayanan, Dr. Vasudha, "A 'White Paper' on Kalki Bhagavan, 29 September 2002", University of Florida, Gainesville, Montclair". msuweb.montclair.edu. | |
103. S, Jayaseelan K. (19 October 2019). "The rise of 'Kalki' Bhagwan: From an LIC agent to a self-proclaimed 'avatar'". The Federal. Retrieved 9 February 2020. | Duplicate |
104. Ardagh 2008, Chapter 1,2. | Duplicate |
105. Arun Ram (17 June 2002). "Kalki Bhagwan controversy: Tamil Nadu-based godman encounters spate of accusations". India Today. Retrieved 5 March 2020. | Duplicate |
106. site admin (17 June 2002). "Cult in crisis – RELIGION News – Issue Date: Jun 17, 2002". Indiatoday.in. Retrieved 1 March 2020. | Duplicate |
107. Swamy, Rohini (22 October 2019). "Kalki Bhagavan, guru who started as LIC clerk & now has 'undisclosed income' of Rs 500 cr". ThePrint. Retrieved 12 August 2020. | Duplicate |
108. "Concerns over health status of Kalki Bhagawan". Deccan Chronicle. 30 October 2016. Retrieved 23 May 2020. | This is a news report. At this point, he is referred to as a spiritual Guru. |
109. "Kalki Bhagavan hospitalized". mytelangana.com. Retrieved 17 May 2020. | Duplicate |
110. "Mystic and the moolah". The Week. Retrieved 23 May 2020. | Duplicate, same as 3 |
Hibiscus192255 (
talk)
08:53, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
pejoratives". Per the MOS:LABEL guideline, words like these should only be used if the majority of reliable sources also use them — which they do. You also seem to be unduly dismissive of opinion pieces; they can be used, even in BLPs, if they are attributed to the author appropriately. Please make sure you're familiar with the policies and guidelines I've linked here moving forward with this discussion. As for your other concerns, I think it's fair to preliminarily tag the article pending improvements; I'll go ahead and do that. — TechnoSquirrel69 ( sigh) 03:28, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
don’t believe this is unduly dismissive of opinion pieces", you also seem to imply that opinion pieces carry less weight when you say "
they don’t represent the majority position and they are opinion pieces". I'm still not convinced of your arguments for the removal of these terms. — TechnoSquirrel69 ( sigh) 04:58, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
Previously presented arguments for why article presently an attack page [1] [2], present findings from investigation of what led to it:
Note: all attempts made to assume WP:GOODFAITH, evidence presented after for doubts/conclusions backed by specific diffs.
85% authorship is attributable to only 2 editors, User:MerlinVtwelve ‘’45.2%’’ and User:Ronyrockford ‘’39.8%’ [3] [4] both these editors fixated on subject, one WP:SPA other heavy bias of authorship
- User:Ronyrockford A1 [5] [6] shows strong evidence editor is a WP:SPA single purpose account. A2 The top article edit for this editor is the page Kalki Bhagawan with 386 edits, next topic is 8 edits and that too is the subject’s daughter-in-law Preetha Krishna - followed by the subject’s organization Oneness University, a temple related to the subject Ekam - The Oneness Temple and next company that is allegedly run by the subject White Lotus Conglomerate. A3 The ratio of the number of edits of the top article to the 2nd is 50:1, the ratio of the number of edits of the top article to all others combined is 10:1 .
- User:MerlinVtwelve [7] the article with the top number of edits for this editor too was Kalki Bhagawan i.e. this article with 345 edits, next edit was 146 and the third is 136 again a company allegedly started by the subject i.e. White Lotus Conglomerate, subject's daughter in law at 6th place with 53 edits, over an editing period of almost 14 years.
evidence of violations WP:NPOV, WP:BLPTALK, WP:NOR WP:EPSTYLE editors User:Ronyrockford and User:MerlinVtwelve towards BLP subject
- User:Ronyrockford B1 [8] calls the subject “slickest conman of them all” in [9], violates WP:BLP WP:BLPTALK. B2 [10] - says “he has been following this strategy from the beginning”. The editor without quoting references claims to know the strategy of BLP - logical fallacy /info/en/?search=Fallacy_of_the_single_cause and bias with extreme language (“slickest conman”). The words "since the beginning" suggests WP:NOR. B3 [11] implies the subject is a “narcissistic charlatan”. Narcissism in WP:EPSTYLE qualifies should reference be for Narcissistic Personality Disorder - WP:NOR is irrelevant, reliable sources must be quoted WP:RELY. Therefore, label contrary to WP:BLPTALK, WP:EPSTYLE, [[WP:BLP] B4 [12] in this edit in which the editor makes a claim that “People like him are a shame to India. I'm from India and I feel ashamed that such people are not behind the bars yet.“ - makes unsubstantiated legal and economic claims of “hundreds of thousands of poor people” being “duped”, ditto arguments. Article 11 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights [13] states every human deserves to be treated innocent until proven guilty. As per WP:EPSTYLE WP:BLP such legal concerns should be discussed in an encyclopedia quoting cases/ legal decisions of a court where both sides can make a point. Editor assumes guilt. B5 Other instances pointed out in [14] violating WP:BLPTALK. The BLP policy also applies to user and user talk pages implying WP:BLPPUBLIC will also apply to talk pages. B6 In [15] clearly WP:ORIGINAL “in line with my experience when I was in the movement”’. B7 B1-B6 leads to conclusion that User:Ronyrockford indeed has a negative bias with what looks like a lot of long term WP:ORIGINAL research.
- User:MerlinVtwelve B8 [16] in this calls subject “fraudulent individual”. MOS:LABEL on [[WLP] no legal arguments provided/ cases cited, assumes guilt - ditto arguments as above. No quoted sources of article, mentions this so either unmentioned source or WP:NOR or bias. A cursory search on the internet reveals no convictions - must be either WP:NOR or it is bias. Violates WP:BLP, WP:BLPTALK. B9 [17] calls the subject a “charlatan” B10 [18] - says subject has a “god complex”, same arguments as the other editor for narcissism for pyschiatric/psychological diagnosis, unsourced MOS:LABEL to BLP subject. B11 B8-B10 make clear negative bias of editor
B12 Both editors also don’t confine bias, instead violate WP:BLPTALK with vast majority on the article's talk page itself, user talk pages (also in scope for WP:BLPTALK)
evidence of violation of WP:BLPCOI excerpt ‘’Wikipedia is not a forum provided for parties to off-wiki disputes to continue their hostilities …an editor who is involved in a significant controversy or dispute with another individual—whether on- or off-wiki—.... should not edit that person's biography or other material about that person.’’ , WP:EXTERNAL, no action by other key editor with knowledge
- User:Ronyrockford C1 In [19] [20] reveals that they were in the “movement” and "wholeheartedly believed that he was an incarnation of God. Like for real" from 2007-10 and now the editor has realized that the subject is “a charlatan of highest order this conman is”. Implies had an external religious relationship to the organization, a clear COI following guideline, taken from WP:EXTERNALREL "Any external relationship—personal, religious, political, academic, legal, or financial —can trigger a COI." It is a clear consequence of this edits from C1 that the editor has a clear and long term negative opinion against the subject. C2 editor never good fit fit in from 2007 onwards to make direct edits to page because in 2007-10 - was strongly for and 2010 onwards - has been strongly against both bad characteristics of a WP:BLP editor and implies a clear WP:BLPCOI. C3 [21] states they have been “keeping tabs on” the subject’s organization “for 15+ years”, result of that investigation calling subject “the slickest conman of them all”. C4 C1-C3 directly imply that 39.2% of the edits have been made by an editor (RonyRockford) who has clear WP:BLPCOI, clearly evidently negative towards the subject based on the diffs from the previous “Bias” section.
- User:MerlinVtwelve C5 editor User:MerlinVtwelve did not object though from this edit [22] clear they understand that the other editor significantly involved with the subject’s organization for multiple years, has negative bias towards subject last decade C6 editor User:MerlinVtwelve has invoked WP:COI WP:EXTERNALREL for this page 2013 onwards [23] [24] [25] [26] C7 non-invocation of obvious WP:BLPCOI by a decade+ Wikipedia editor User:MerlinVtwelve, demonstrated familiarity (examples above) with WP:COI, WP:EXTERNALREL towards User:Ronyrockford surprising. C8 [27] mentions association with subject again on Aug 8, 2020, the reply to User:Ronyrockford from User:MerlinVtwelve [28] did not contain a cautionary note about any WP:BLPCOI.
C9 Coupled with the specific edits indicating bias, the evidence from sections 2 and 3 implies negatively biased WP:BLPCOI editing on a WP:BLP violating WP:BLPCOI WP:NOR WP:EXTERNALREL WP:NPOV.
evidence that editors User:Ronyrockford and User:MerlinVtwelve created a new article to get around WP:BLP specifically WP:NPOVFACT violation to create White Lotus Conglomerate.
D1 On 8th May, 2020 on discussion on the User:Ronyrockford’s talk page, User:MerlinVtwelve mentions how he agrees with User:Ronyrockford’s earlier claim >> ‘’’ the Kalki Bhagavan page is severely restricted by being a BLP.’’’ [29]. In [30] [31] a proposal is specified to create 2 other Wikpedia pages to get around BLP “restriction”. (This series of edits was deleted in [32] from the User:Ronyrockford’s talk page) D2 Within 3 days of this discussion, one of those pages White Lotus Conglomerate on 11th May, 2020 [33] [ [34]] was created by User:MerlinVtwelve. D3 In the lead of the article [35] (existing right from the next day of creating the article i.e. on 12th May 2020 [36], 3+ years) has associates an unattributed MOS label to Kalki Bhagawan. This label is currently contested in the talk page of BLP subject, neutrality of BLP and reliability of sources is disputed [37]. Therefore, the action by User:MerlinVtwelve looks clearly disallowed in Point-of-view forks WP:NPOVFACT, which states a POV fork is an attempt to evade the neutrality policy by creating a new article about a subject that is already treated in an article, often to avoid or highlight negative or positive viewpoints or facts. POV forks are not permitted on Wikipedia.. Article creation itself seems to fit WP:NPOVFACT as a premeditated colluded act of both editors User:Ronyrockford and User:MerlinVtwelve to go around WP:BLP restrictions and WP:NPOVFACT seems evident.
Multiple Wiki violations in biased collusion evident - WP:BLPCOI, WP:SPA and WP:NPOVFACT pages created. 85% of page from this collusion, impact of violation beyond current page spilling to at least White Lotus Conglomerate having premeditated, long term and both indirect/direct negative impact on BLP subject. Multiple WP:BLPTALK violations disparaging the subject opposed to WP:BLP.
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Given these findings, what is the best way to proceed for me for each of the above 5 points below? How to handle this long term WP:BLPCOI editing (provided arguments make sense of course) ? What to do about the article created as part of WP:NPOVFACT (same provision about arguments)? What do admins recommend here? Specifically how to raise specific WP:NOSHARING / sockpuppetry checks? Hibiscus192255 ( talk) 17:57, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
Hibiscus192255 ( talk) 07:03, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
I have requested help again on the BLP noticeboard to fix this page here. I will be making changes to fix/improve the article. Request editors to put your comments in this section and join the discussion. Hibiscus192255 ( talk) 12:34, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
The source "Ardagh, Arjuna. (2010). Ontwaken in eenheid: de kracht van de oneness blessing in de evolutie van ons bewustzijn. Wel, Anna van der. Houten: Zwerk. ISBN 978-90-77478-32-5. OCLC 662568093." appears to be unavailable online. Hence, reliability of information sourced from this reference, particularly in the 'Criticisms' and 'Claims and Prediction' sections is questioned. To improve verifiability, a 'Unreliable source' tag has been added to prompt further verification. Editors are encouraged to help with verifying the information from this source. Moonlight2006 ( talk) 04:26, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
I believe the current article structure has vestiges from past editing cycles which were in my considered opinion “attack page-like” in nature - please see [38] and [39] for reasons and brief background.
Other editors who have reviewed this page in the past independently have also agreed that there was no good WP:NPOV reason for having at the very least some of the past details in a separate “claims and predictions” section e.g. [40]. I have also mentioned my arguments for why this is atypical for a WP:BLP in Sep 2023 [41].
Hence, I am thinking of few edits to the overall article structure while maintaining if not improving WP:NPOV. Hibiscus192255 ( talk) 08:19, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
Hi! It looks like the speaking tree was used as a source in this article [ source link]. According to WP:RS an WP:BLPSPS, this source does not seem reliable. Unless others can prove this as untrue or find a better source, I plan to remove the content using this source. Thanks! Whitestar12 ( talk) 16:38, 8 April 2024 (UTC)
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I am a bit puzzled by what she claims was her previous name. Was her birth name really 'Padmavathi', or 'Padmavati', which, according to the prophesies, is the name of Vishnu's consort? Or was this yet another made up name, which she adopted, in an effort to gain followers, when VK was claiming to be Kalki? merlinVtwelve ( talk) 22:33, 3 August 2020 (UTC)
As most of the information on this page has been consolidated after much discussions, I think it is time to remove the neutrality tag, if editors don't have objections. Keepit real ( talk) 19:15, 11 August 2020 (UTC)
I've restored the tag as there are some obvious neutrality problems with the current article. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 01:38, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
As of 2010, Christianity had an estimated 2.2 billion followers worldwide, while Islam had 1.6 billion. Hinduism had around 1 billion. These numbers are predicted to grow substantially in the coming decades.which seem to just be there to make him look even worse. User:力 (powera, π, ν) 18:04, 15 November 2021 (UTC)
It’s easy to create negative environment with this kind of article. Sri bhagavan works tirelessly to create positive environment to prepare people solve their own challenges and protect the earth. This statement is based on my personal experience and many other followers. Kindly block this article and the users to help humanity. They don’t even realize that he is working for their better life and future generation.
If you can’t block, please let me know action how to block this false propaganda permanently Arunmohan79 ( talk) 01:16, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
There are several reasons why I believe this article in its current form is an attack page. Point by point below:
list of arguments about what is wrong with the sources on this page
Analysis of references | |
1. Nadkarni, Vithal C. (2008) "Oneness to the rescue of a world in peril". The Economic Times. | Opinion piece, called out at the start |
2. From humble beginning to Godman Kalki". www.outlookindia.com/. Retrieved 6 August 2021. | Link wrong |
3. "Mystic and the moolah". The Week. Retrieved 1 March 2020. | Opinion piece |
4. "Bhagwan Kalki Life Positive". lifepositive.com. Retrieved 23 May 2020. | Opinion piece |
5. "The cult of Kalki". mm-gold.azureedge.net. Retrieved 23 May 2020. | Opinion piece. Logical fallacy There is a logical fallacy right at the start of the article - it says cults are bad. It then says Kalki Bhagavan is a cult and then therefore it is bad. But no proof or logical arguments are provided as to why it is a cult. |
6. "How Kalki gave me a story, but not an Aishwarya look-alike". Times of India Blog. 4 November 2019. Retrieved 23 May 2020. | Blog post/ Opinion piece. Is this serious? Why is a blog post allowed as an established source? |
7. "The Kalki Craze Outlook India Magazine". Retrieved 23 May 2020. | Opinion piece |
8. Shobha, V (November 2019). "The cult of Kalki Bhagavan". Open The Magazine. Retrieved 23 May 2020. | Opinion piece in a magazine |
9. "IT seizes Rs 33 cr from premises of godman Kalki Bhagwan and son". Hindustan Times. 18 October 2019. Retrieved 28 June 2020. | This is a news report. Good, only objection I have is the use of the term Godman is never justified in the title. |
10. "The cult of Kalki". mm-gold.azureedge.net. Retrieved 28 November 2020. | Duplicate, same as 5 |
11. "The Cult of Kalki Bhagavan". Open The Magazine. 1 November 2019. Retrieved 28 November 2020. | Duplicate, same as 8 |
12. "Inside godman Kalki Bhagwan's world: Bollywood celebs, real estate and drugs". The Week. Retrieved 28 November 2020 | Opinion piece. Allegations and hand wavy, tying to Bollywoood and drugs is textbook tying to association |
13. Thorsén, Elin. "Oneness of Different Kinds: A Comparative Study of Amma and Bhagavan's Oneness Movement in India and Sweden"(PDF). Gothenburg University Publications Electronic Archive. Retrieved 8 May 2020. | This is fine, looks like a university student’s investigative paper but none of the results seemed strange.
On page 70 the author did say that such a movement is not strange in India |
14. Kalki, Cult of (November 2019). "Cult of Kalki". Open Magazine. Open Magazine. | Duplicate, same as 8 |
15. "life positive". lifepositive.com. Religioscope. | Broken link |
16. "India: a visit to the Oneness Temple of Amma-Bhagwan". Religioscope. 13 July 2008. | Opinion piece. Do look at at least the last sentence in the last paragraph - “the guide sounded honest” |
17. Founders, OO academy. "OO Academy Founders". OO Academy. OO Academy. Retrieved 8 May 2020. | Not a safe link |
18. OM, WRSP. "WRSP – OM". WRSP. WRSP. Retrieved 8 May 2020. | This looks ok, I don’t have a specific objection |
19. "The Cult of Kalki Bhagavan". Open The Magazine. 1 November 2019. Retrieved 10 October 2021. | Duplicate, same as 8 |
20. "The Cult of Kalki Bhagavan". Open The Magazine. 1 November 2019. Retrieved 9 May2020. | Duplicate, same as 8 |
21. Arun Ram (17 June 2002). "Kalki Bhagwan controversy: Tamil Nadu-based godman encounters spate of accusations". India Today. Retrieved 10 October 2021. | Opinion piece |
22. "Mystic and the moolah". The Week. Retrieved 9 February 2020. | Duplicate, same as 3 |
23. "Income Tax Department conducts Search on a 'wellness group' in Chennai". Pib.gov.in. 16 October 2019. Retrieved 1 March 2020. | No arguments here, government report |
24. DTNext, Publisher (20 December 2019). "907 acres linked to Kalki ashram attached". DT Next. DT Next. Archived from the originalon 11 June 2020. Retrieved 10 May 2020. | News report, reasonable |
25. "900 acres of land owned by godman Kalki attached". Deccan Herald. 20 December 2019. Retrieved 10 May 2020. | Again a news report, reasonable except for the Godman pejorative |
26. Vijayakumar, Sanjay (19 December 2019). "907 acres of land belonging to Kalki group attached". The Hindu. Retrieved 10 May 2020. | News report, not fully public so cannot comment but seems ok |
27. Dec 21, B. Sivakumar. "Kalki Bhagavan case: 900 acres of benami land attached by I-T Chennai News – Times of India". The Times of India. Retrieved 10 May 2020. | Again a news report, reasonable except for the Godman pejorative |
28. "'Kalki' Bhagwan hospitalised". The Hindu. 1 December 2019. ISSN 0971-751X. Retrieved 9 February 2020. | News report, not fully public so cannot comment but seems ok |
29. "India: a visit to the Oneness Temple of Amma-Bhagwan". Religioscope. 13 July 2008. Retrieved 6 June 2020. | Duplicate, same as 16 |
30. Preethaji; Krishnaji (6 August 2019). The Four Sacred Secrets: For Love and Prosperity, A Guide to Living in a Beautiful State. Simon and Schuster. ISBN 978-1-5011-7379-0. | |
31. "Publishers Weekly". publishersweekly.com. Retrieved 9 May 2020. | Book review of a book by Kalki Bhagavan’s son. Why is this relevant? |
31. "Society once had religion to give it purpose. Now it has wellness coaches". British GQ. 12 January 2020. Retrieved 9 May 2020. | Again an opinion piece |
32. Shobha, V (1 November 2019). "The Cult of Kalki Bhagavan". Open The Magazine. Retrieved 16 May 2020. | Duplicate, same as 8 |
33. Thorsen, Elin. "Oneness of Different Kinds: A Comparative Study of Amma and Bhagavan's Oneness Movement in India and Sweden"(PDF). GUPEA. Retrieved 16 May 2020. | duplicate |
34. Ardagh, Arjuna. (2010). Ontwaken in eenheid : de kracht van de oneness blessing in de evolutie van ons bewustzijn. Wel, Anna van der. Houten: Zwerk. ISBN 978-90-77478-32-5. OCLC 662568093. | duplciate |
35. "Oneness Movement – WRSP". | Broken link |
36. S, Jayaseelan K. (19 October 2019). "The rise of 'Kalki' Bhagwan: From an LIC agent to a self-proclaimed 'avatar'". The Federal. Retrieved 24 May 2020. | Opinion piece |
38. "Chinese Actress Deletes Her Weibo Post Promoting 'Controversial Indian Spiritual Courses'". News18. 17 January 2019. Retrieved 14 May 2020. | Again there is no way that the deletion of a social media post is relevant to a human being’s 75 year life span. I am finding this irrelevant |
39. "After Taiwanese Actor's Post, China Warns About Indian 'Cults'". The Quint. 17 January 2019. Retrieved 14 May 2020. | 40. This is not a news report, it is an opinion piece. One of the problems straight away is a comparison of this with another organization of Ram Rahim. Why is this a valid comparison is not specified. |
40. "Mystic and the moolah". The Week. Retrieved 19 May 2020. | Duplicate, same as 3 |
41. "After marathon Income Tax raid, godman Kalki Bhagwan faces ED heat". Hindustan Times. 24 October 2019. Retrieved 15 May 2020. | News report, ok |
42. Thorsen, Elin. "Oneness of Different Kinds: A Comparative Study of Amma and Bhagavan's Oneness Movement in India and Sweden"(PDF). GUPEA. Goteborgs Universitet. Retrieved 15 May 2020. | Duplicate |
43. S, Jayaseelan K. (19 October 2019). "The rise of 'Kalki' Bhagwan: From an LIC agent to a self-proclaimed 'avatar'". The Federal | Opinion piece. |
44. Swamy, Rohini (22 October 2019). "Kalki Bhagavan, guru who started as LIC clerk & now has 'undisclosed income' of Rs 500 cr". ThePrint. Retrieved 29 June 2020. | Opinion piece, though initially a news report |
45. Newcombe, Suzanne; Harvey, Sarah (15 April 2016). Prophecy in the New Millennium: When Prophecies Persist. Routledge. ISBN 978-1-317-07459-5. | Can’t read book but ok |
46. Townsend, R. Lataine (4 January 2012). 2013: Beginning an Era of Hope and Harmony. BalboaPress. ISBN 978-1-4525-4342-0. | Can’t read book but ok |
47. Ganguli, Aurijit (30 May 2020). The Shambala Sutras. Notion Press. ISBN 978-1-64892-982-3. | This is about a different Kalki, not relevant |
48. "Bhagwan Kalki Life Positive". lifepositive.com. Retrieved 2 July2020 | .Duplicate |
49. "Investigators seize more than $14 million from spiritual guru Kalki Bhagavan – EasternEye". 22 October 2019. Retrieved 28 June 2020. | initially a news report but later opinion piece - again a comparison with unrelated Ram Rahim is provided |
50. Cowan, Douglas E. (2 September 2009). Corrigan, John (ed.). "New Religious Movements". Oxford Handbooks Online: 125–140. doi: 10.1093/oxfordhb/9780195170214.003.0008. ISBN 978-0195170214. | Don’t have access to this, but even this agrees ‘cult ‘ is a pejorative |
51. "Who is Samael Aun Weor?". Samael.org. Retrieved 25 December 2017. | 404 page not found |
52. Sikand, Yoginder (2008). Pseudo-messianic movements in contemporary Muslim South Asia. Global Media Publications. p. 100. | 2 problems even without having read the book - firstly Kalki Bhagavan is in India and India is not a Muslim country |
53. Juergensmeyer, Mark (2006). Oxford Handbook of Global Religions. Oxford: Oxford University Press. p. 520. ISBN 978-0-19-513798-9. ISBN (Ten digit): 0195137981. | Not available to read but ok |
54. "The Kalki Craze Outlook India Magazine". outlookindia.com/. Retrieved 7 July2020. | Duplicate |
55. Sri Bhagavan Interview hosted by Mitchell Jay Rabin for A Better World TV early in 2005, retrieved 8 April 2020 | Interview, reasonable |
56. site admin (17 June 2002). "Cult in crisis – RELIGION News – Issue Date: Jun 17, 2002". Indiatoday.in. Retrieved 11 April 2020. | Opinion piece. |
57. Nayak, Narendra. "The cult of Kalki by Narendra Nayak". mm-gold.azureedge.net. Retrieved 16 May 2020. | Duplicate |
58. Arun Ram (17 June 2002). "Kalki Bhagwan controversy: Tamil Nadu-based godman encounters spate of accusations". India Today. Retrieved 25 June 2020. | Duplicate |
59. "Who is Kalki Bhagwan Who Once Predicted Death of Organised Religions and Now Faces I-T Heat?". News18. 22 October 2019. Retrieved 6 March 2020. | Duplicate |
60. "The Future of World Religions: Population Growth Projections, 2010–2050". Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project. 2 April 2015. Retrieved 25 June 2020. | No objections |
61. "The Future of World Religions: Population Growth Projections, 2010–2050". Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project. 2 April 2015. Retrieved 25 June 2020. | Duplicate, same as 60 |
62. Windrider, Kiara; Sears, Grace (2009). Deeksha: The Fire from Heaven. New World Library. ISBN 978-1-57731-724-1. | |
63. Windrider, Kiara; Sears, Grace (2009). Deeksha: The Fire from Heaven. New World Library. ISBN 978-1-57731-724-1. | Duplicate, same as 62 |
64. Ardagh, Arjuna (1 April 2009). Awakening into Oneness: The Power of Blessing in the Evolution of Consciousness. Sounds True. ISBN 978-1-59179-864-4. | Duplicate |
65. Calleman, Ph.D, Carl (16 July 2015). "The Mayan Calendar & The Transformation of Consciousness". A Better World. Retrieved 13 June 2020. | Book, ok |
66. Roth, Ron; Montgomery, Roger (2007). The Sacred Light of Healing: Teachings and Meditations on Divine Oneness. iUniverse. ISBN 978-0-595-44896-8. | Book, ok |
67. Nadkarni, Vithal C. (26 January 2008). "Oneness to the rescue of a world in peril". The Economic Times. Retrieved 11 April 2020. | Duplicate |
68. Imranullah, Mohamed (22 November 2019). "'Kalki' Bhagavan's daughter-in-law moves HC against 'look out circular'". The Hindu. ISSN 0971-751X. Retrieved 26 April 2020. | Duplicate |
69. "Rs 44 cr cash, 90 kg gold, Rs 20 cr worth US dollars seized in I-T raids on properties linked to spiritual guru Kalki Bhagwan". DNA India. 21 October 2019. | Duplicate |
70. "The Cult of Kalki Bhagavan". Open The Magazine. 1 November 2019. Retrieved 6 May2020. | Duplicate, same as 8 |
71. Ardagh, Arjuna (29 October 2009). Awakening Into Oneness: The Power of Blessing in the Evolution of Consciousness. ReadHowYouWant.com. ISBN 978-1-4587-3614-7. | Duplicate |
72. "Bhagwan Kalki Life Positive". lifepositive.com. Retrieved 9 May 2020. | Duplicate |
73. Convened Insiders, Maverick (6 February 2020). "A controversial babu, a godman, film producers: Meet the faces behind the INR16,000 crore bid for RCom – ET Prime". ET. ET Prime. | Again this uses the Godman pejorative, not relevant also |
74. "The Cult of Kalki Bhagavan". Open The Magazine. 1 November 2019. Retrieved 4 May2020. | Duplicate, same as 8 |
75. "Nairobi's tallest building planned". Deccan Herald. 22 December 2016. Retrieved 3 May2020. | This has no mention of Kalki Bhagavan. It mentions the White Lotus group which he is allegedly part of, but that has its own Wikipedia article |
76. "Hilton kicks off second Nairobi high-end hotel". Business Daily. 23 May 2017. Retrieved 2 May 2020. | No mention of Kalki Bhagavan. It mentions the White Lotus group which he is allegedly part of, but that has its own Wikipedia article |
77. Monks, Kieron (23 June 2017). "Work begins on the tallest skyscraper in Africa". CNN. Retrieved 3 May 2020. | No mention of Kalki Bhagavan. It mentions the White Lotus group which he is allegedly part of, but that has its own Wikipedia article |
78. "Africa's tallest building aims to be a standout". The Business Times. 24 September 2019. Retrieved 3 May 2020 | Not a public link |
79. Wambu, Wainaina. "Nairobi's elegant office space that no one wants". The Standard. Retrieved 3 May 2020. | Link doesn’t work |
80. "Dubai tycoons sought for contempt of court". Kenyan Tribune. 7 February 2019. Retrieved 3 May 2020. | Link doesn’t work |
81. "Dubai tycoons sought for contempt of court". Daily Nation. Retrieved 4 May 2020. | No mention of Kalki Bhagavan It mentions the White Lotus group which he is allegedly part of, but that has its own Wikipedia article |
82. "Vacant school about 1 mile west of the former Northridge Mall proposed for 100 affordable apartments". Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. Retrieved 2 May 2020. | No mention of Kalki Bhagavan. It mentions the White Lotus group which he is allegedly part of, but that has its own Wikipedia article |
83. "Dubai investors inject $200 million into Africa's tallest tower". africa.businesschief.com. Retrieved 6 May 2020. | Link doesn’t work |
84. "Hotel Deco XV is Deco'd out". smallmarketmeetings.com. 11 October 2013. Retrieved 9 May 2020. | No mention of Kalki Bhagavan. It mentions the White Lotus group which he is allegedly part of, but that has its own Wikipedia article |
85. Thorsen, Elin. "Oneness of Different Kinds: A Comparative Study of Amma and Bhagavan's Oneness Movement in India and Sweden"(PDF). GUPEA. Goteborgs Universitet. Retrieved 15 May 2020. | Duplicate link |
86. "Bangalore franchise kabaddi team launched". Business Standard India. IANS. 16 July 2014. Retrieved 3 May 2020. | No mention of Kalki Bhagavan. It mentions the White Lotus group which he is allegedly part of, but that has its own Wikipedia article |
87. Kosmik Music – YouTube | Youtube channel |
88. The Cult of Kalki Bhagavan – Open The Magazine | Duplicate - same as 8 |
89. "Studio-N Channel Locked Out?". 9 July 2018. | Only mention of Kalki Bhagavan is that it involves people who are “apparently” belonging to the Kalki religious organization. Why is that relevant to this article? Is it relevant to mention a Microsoft member in a biography on Bill Gates? |
90. Suares, Coreena (16 October 2019). "IT Sleuths search Kalki Bhagavan's properties in Hyderabad". NewsMeter. Retrieved 6 May2020. | |
91. June 17, Arun Ram; June 17, Arun Ram; August 6, Arun Ram; Ist, Arun Ram. "Kalki Bhagwan controversy: Tamil Nadu-based godman encounters spate of accusations". India Today. Retrieved 17 May 2020. | Duplicate |
92. Correspondent, Legal (3 February 2004). "Plea for CBI probe against godman turned down". The Hindu. [1] " | The case was turned down! |
93. "How Kalki gave me a story, but not an Aishwarya look-alike". Times of India Blog. 4 November 2019. Retrieved 10 June 2020. | Duplicate |
94. "Mystic and the moolah". The Week. Retrieved 1 May 2020. | Duplicate, same as 3 |
95. Rangarajan, A. d (22 October 2019). "We have not fled the country, says Kalki Bhagavan, after I-T raids on his premises". The Hindu. ISSN 0971-751X. Retrieved 1 May 2020. | This is a news report, again uses the word Godman unjustifiably |
96. Imranullah, Mohamed (22 November 2019). "'Kalki' Bhagavan's daughter-in-law moves HC against 'look out circular'". The Hindu. ISSN 0971-751X. Retrieved 9 April 2020. | Not fully public but looks technical enough |
97. Sivakumar, B. (21 December 2019). "Kalki Bhagavan case: 900 acres of benami land attached by I-T". The Times of India. Retrieved 9 April 2020. | Duplicate |
98. Windrider, Kiara (2006). Deeksha: The Fire from Heaven. New World Library. ISBN 978-1-930722-70-5. | Duplicate, same as 62 |
99. Ardagh, Arjuna (29 October 2009). Awakening Into Oneness: The Power of Blessing in the Evolution of Consciousness. ReadHowYouWant.com. ISBN 978-1-4587-3614-7. | Duplicate |
100. Reily, Suzel Ana; Dueck, Jonathan M. (16 March 2016). The Oxford Handbook of Music and World Christianities. Oxford University Press. ISBN 978-0-19-986000-5. | There was nothing in the linked page about Kalki Bhagavan |
101. S, Jayaseelan K. (19 October 2019). "The rise of 'Kalki' Bhagwan: From an LIC agent to a self-proclaimed 'avatar'". The Federal. Retrieved 7 August 2020. | Duplicate |
102. "Narayanan, Dr. Vasudha, "A 'White Paper' on Kalki Bhagavan, 29 September 2002", University of Florida, Gainesville, Montclair". msuweb.montclair.edu. | |
103. S, Jayaseelan K. (19 October 2019). "The rise of 'Kalki' Bhagwan: From an LIC agent to a self-proclaimed 'avatar'". The Federal. Retrieved 9 February 2020. | Duplicate |
104. Ardagh 2008, Chapter 1,2. | Duplicate |
105. Arun Ram (17 June 2002). "Kalki Bhagwan controversy: Tamil Nadu-based godman encounters spate of accusations". India Today. Retrieved 5 March 2020. | Duplicate |
106. site admin (17 June 2002). "Cult in crisis – RELIGION News – Issue Date: Jun 17, 2002". Indiatoday.in. Retrieved 1 March 2020. | Duplicate |
107. Swamy, Rohini (22 October 2019). "Kalki Bhagavan, guru who started as LIC clerk & now has 'undisclosed income' of Rs 500 cr". ThePrint. Retrieved 12 August 2020. | Duplicate |
108. "Concerns over health status of Kalki Bhagawan". Deccan Chronicle. 30 October 2016. Retrieved 23 May 2020. | This is a news report. At this point, he is referred to as a spiritual Guru. |
109. "Kalki Bhagavan hospitalized". mytelangana.com. Retrieved 17 May 2020. | Duplicate |
110. "Mystic and the moolah". The Week. Retrieved 23 May 2020. | Duplicate, same as 3 |
Hibiscus192255 (
talk)
08:53, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
pejoratives". Per the MOS:LABEL guideline, words like these should only be used if the majority of reliable sources also use them — which they do. You also seem to be unduly dismissive of opinion pieces; they can be used, even in BLPs, if they are attributed to the author appropriately. Please make sure you're familiar with the policies and guidelines I've linked here moving forward with this discussion. As for your other concerns, I think it's fair to preliminarily tag the article pending improvements; I'll go ahead and do that. — TechnoSquirrel69 ( sigh) 03:28, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
don’t believe this is unduly dismissive of opinion pieces", you also seem to imply that opinion pieces carry less weight when you say "
they don’t represent the majority position and they are opinion pieces". I'm still not convinced of your arguments for the removal of these terms. — TechnoSquirrel69 ( sigh) 04:58, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
Previously presented arguments for why article presently an attack page [1] [2], present findings from investigation of what led to it:
Note: all attempts made to assume WP:GOODFAITH, evidence presented after for doubts/conclusions backed by specific diffs.
85% authorship is attributable to only 2 editors, User:MerlinVtwelve ‘’45.2%’’ and User:Ronyrockford ‘’39.8%’ [3] [4] both these editors fixated on subject, one WP:SPA other heavy bias of authorship
- User:Ronyrockford A1 [5] [6] shows strong evidence editor is a WP:SPA single purpose account. A2 The top article edit for this editor is the page Kalki Bhagawan with 386 edits, next topic is 8 edits and that too is the subject’s daughter-in-law Preetha Krishna - followed by the subject’s organization Oneness University, a temple related to the subject Ekam - The Oneness Temple and next company that is allegedly run by the subject White Lotus Conglomerate. A3 The ratio of the number of edits of the top article to the 2nd is 50:1, the ratio of the number of edits of the top article to all others combined is 10:1 .
- User:MerlinVtwelve [7] the article with the top number of edits for this editor too was Kalki Bhagawan i.e. this article with 345 edits, next edit was 146 and the third is 136 again a company allegedly started by the subject i.e. White Lotus Conglomerate, subject's daughter in law at 6th place with 53 edits, over an editing period of almost 14 years.
evidence of violations WP:NPOV, WP:BLPTALK, WP:NOR WP:EPSTYLE editors User:Ronyrockford and User:MerlinVtwelve towards BLP subject
- User:Ronyrockford B1 [8] calls the subject “slickest conman of them all” in [9], violates WP:BLP WP:BLPTALK. B2 [10] - says “he has been following this strategy from the beginning”. The editor without quoting references claims to know the strategy of BLP - logical fallacy /info/en/?search=Fallacy_of_the_single_cause and bias with extreme language (“slickest conman”). The words "since the beginning" suggests WP:NOR. B3 [11] implies the subject is a “narcissistic charlatan”. Narcissism in WP:EPSTYLE qualifies should reference be for Narcissistic Personality Disorder - WP:NOR is irrelevant, reliable sources must be quoted WP:RELY. Therefore, label contrary to WP:BLPTALK, WP:EPSTYLE, [[WP:BLP] B4 [12] in this edit in which the editor makes a claim that “People like him are a shame to India. I'm from India and I feel ashamed that such people are not behind the bars yet.“ - makes unsubstantiated legal and economic claims of “hundreds of thousands of poor people” being “duped”, ditto arguments. Article 11 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights [13] states every human deserves to be treated innocent until proven guilty. As per WP:EPSTYLE WP:BLP such legal concerns should be discussed in an encyclopedia quoting cases/ legal decisions of a court where both sides can make a point. Editor assumes guilt. B5 Other instances pointed out in [14] violating WP:BLPTALK. The BLP policy also applies to user and user talk pages implying WP:BLPPUBLIC will also apply to talk pages. B6 In [15] clearly WP:ORIGINAL “in line with my experience when I was in the movement”’. B7 B1-B6 leads to conclusion that User:Ronyrockford indeed has a negative bias with what looks like a lot of long term WP:ORIGINAL research.
- User:MerlinVtwelve B8 [16] in this calls subject “fraudulent individual”. MOS:LABEL on [[WLP] no legal arguments provided/ cases cited, assumes guilt - ditto arguments as above. No quoted sources of article, mentions this so either unmentioned source or WP:NOR or bias. A cursory search on the internet reveals no convictions - must be either WP:NOR or it is bias. Violates WP:BLP, WP:BLPTALK. B9 [17] calls the subject a “charlatan” B10 [18] - says subject has a “god complex”, same arguments as the other editor for narcissism for pyschiatric/psychological diagnosis, unsourced MOS:LABEL to BLP subject. B11 B8-B10 make clear negative bias of editor
B12 Both editors also don’t confine bias, instead violate WP:BLPTALK with vast majority on the article's talk page itself, user talk pages (also in scope for WP:BLPTALK)
evidence of violation of WP:BLPCOI excerpt ‘’Wikipedia is not a forum provided for parties to off-wiki disputes to continue their hostilities …an editor who is involved in a significant controversy or dispute with another individual—whether on- or off-wiki—.... should not edit that person's biography or other material about that person.’’ , WP:EXTERNAL, no action by other key editor with knowledge
- User:Ronyrockford C1 In [19] [20] reveals that they were in the “movement” and "wholeheartedly believed that he was an incarnation of God. Like for real" from 2007-10 and now the editor has realized that the subject is “a charlatan of highest order this conman is”. Implies had an external religious relationship to the organization, a clear COI following guideline, taken from WP:EXTERNALREL "Any external relationship—personal, religious, political, academic, legal, or financial —can trigger a COI." It is a clear consequence of this edits from C1 that the editor has a clear and long term negative opinion against the subject. C2 editor never good fit fit in from 2007 onwards to make direct edits to page because in 2007-10 - was strongly for and 2010 onwards - has been strongly against both bad characteristics of a WP:BLP editor and implies a clear WP:BLPCOI. C3 [21] states they have been “keeping tabs on” the subject’s organization “for 15+ years”, result of that investigation calling subject “the slickest conman of them all”. C4 C1-C3 directly imply that 39.2% of the edits have been made by an editor (RonyRockford) who has clear WP:BLPCOI, clearly evidently negative towards the subject based on the diffs from the previous “Bias” section.
- User:MerlinVtwelve C5 editor User:MerlinVtwelve did not object though from this edit [22] clear they understand that the other editor significantly involved with the subject’s organization for multiple years, has negative bias towards subject last decade C6 editor User:MerlinVtwelve has invoked WP:COI WP:EXTERNALREL for this page 2013 onwards [23] [24] [25] [26] C7 non-invocation of obvious WP:BLPCOI by a decade+ Wikipedia editor User:MerlinVtwelve, demonstrated familiarity (examples above) with WP:COI, WP:EXTERNALREL towards User:Ronyrockford surprising. C8 [27] mentions association with subject again on Aug 8, 2020, the reply to User:Ronyrockford from User:MerlinVtwelve [28] did not contain a cautionary note about any WP:BLPCOI.
C9 Coupled with the specific edits indicating bias, the evidence from sections 2 and 3 implies negatively biased WP:BLPCOI editing on a WP:BLP violating WP:BLPCOI WP:NOR WP:EXTERNALREL WP:NPOV.
evidence that editors User:Ronyrockford and User:MerlinVtwelve created a new article to get around WP:BLP specifically WP:NPOVFACT violation to create White Lotus Conglomerate.
D1 On 8th May, 2020 on discussion on the User:Ronyrockford’s talk page, User:MerlinVtwelve mentions how he agrees with User:Ronyrockford’s earlier claim >> ‘’’ the Kalki Bhagavan page is severely restricted by being a BLP.’’’ [29]. In [30] [31] a proposal is specified to create 2 other Wikpedia pages to get around BLP “restriction”. (This series of edits was deleted in [32] from the User:Ronyrockford’s talk page) D2 Within 3 days of this discussion, one of those pages White Lotus Conglomerate on 11th May, 2020 [33] [ [34]] was created by User:MerlinVtwelve. D3 In the lead of the article [35] (existing right from the next day of creating the article i.e. on 12th May 2020 [36], 3+ years) has associates an unattributed MOS label to Kalki Bhagawan. This label is currently contested in the talk page of BLP subject, neutrality of BLP and reliability of sources is disputed [37]. Therefore, the action by User:MerlinVtwelve looks clearly disallowed in Point-of-view forks WP:NPOVFACT, which states a POV fork is an attempt to evade the neutrality policy by creating a new article about a subject that is already treated in an article, often to avoid or highlight negative or positive viewpoints or facts. POV forks are not permitted on Wikipedia.. Article creation itself seems to fit WP:NPOVFACT as a premeditated colluded act of both editors User:Ronyrockford and User:MerlinVtwelve to go around WP:BLP restrictions and WP:NPOVFACT seems evident.
Multiple Wiki violations in biased collusion evident - WP:BLPCOI, WP:SPA and WP:NPOVFACT pages created. 85% of page from this collusion, impact of violation beyond current page spilling to at least White Lotus Conglomerate having premeditated, long term and both indirect/direct negative impact on BLP subject. Multiple WP:BLPTALK violations disparaging the subject opposed to WP:BLP.
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Given these findings, what is the best way to proceed for me for each of the above 5 points below? How to handle this long term WP:BLPCOI editing (provided arguments make sense of course) ? What to do about the article created as part of WP:NPOVFACT (same provision about arguments)? What do admins recommend here? Specifically how to raise specific WP:NOSHARING / sockpuppetry checks? Hibiscus192255 ( talk) 17:57, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
Hibiscus192255 ( talk) 07:03, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
I have requested help again on the BLP noticeboard to fix this page here. I will be making changes to fix/improve the article. Request editors to put your comments in this section and join the discussion. Hibiscus192255 ( talk) 12:34, 7 January 2024 (UTC)
The source "Ardagh, Arjuna. (2010). Ontwaken in eenheid: de kracht van de oneness blessing in de evolutie van ons bewustzijn. Wel, Anna van der. Houten: Zwerk. ISBN 978-90-77478-32-5. OCLC 662568093." appears to be unavailable online. Hence, reliability of information sourced from this reference, particularly in the 'Criticisms' and 'Claims and Prediction' sections is questioned. To improve verifiability, a 'Unreliable source' tag has been added to prompt further verification. Editors are encouraged to help with verifying the information from this source. Moonlight2006 ( talk) 04:26, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
I believe the current article structure has vestiges from past editing cycles which were in my considered opinion “attack page-like” in nature - please see [38] and [39] for reasons and brief background.
Other editors who have reviewed this page in the past independently have also agreed that there was no good WP:NPOV reason for having at the very least some of the past details in a separate “claims and predictions” section e.g. [40]. I have also mentioned my arguments for why this is atypical for a WP:BLP in Sep 2023 [41].
Hence, I am thinking of few edits to the overall article structure while maintaining if not improving WP:NPOV. Hibiscus192255 ( talk) 08:19, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
Hi! It looks like the speaking tree was used as a source in this article [ source link]. According to WP:RS an WP:BLPSPS, this source does not seem reliable. Unless others can prove this as untrue or find a better source, I plan to remove the content using this source. Thanks! Whitestar12 ( talk) 16:38, 8 April 2024 (UTC)