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How is pronounced the word Kalevala?-- 190.22.158.76 ( talk) 22:50, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
Hi there, I'm currently writing a paper alongside creating a piece of art inspired by the Kalevala. There are a few statements made in the article which I'm struggling to find referenced anywhere else. For instance:
"[Elias and the poem collectors] carefully noted the name of the poem singer, its age, the place of performance, and the date."
Where can I verify this statement? Thank you! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.154.230.70 ( talk) 13:59, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
Would be good to change all of the references to e.g. published books, papers or similar trusted sources. Currently the references are pointing to (self-published) sites like Geocities. Such resources aren't typically quoted in encylopedic text. Buddhaball ( talk) 17:47, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
This article doesn't nearly meet the criteria for a B-class on an objective level. It doesn't even meet the first listed requirement: "The article is suitably referenced, with inline citations where necessary. It has reliable sources, and any important or controversial material which is likely to be challenged is cited.". I am changing the rating of the article to C-class for all 3 projects, which even still is a stretch. Hopefully either I or another editor can clean the article up suitably to get it back into shape for a higher rating eventually. Jess talk| edits 07:53, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
User:Lakkasuo recent reverted two of my edits, here. These aren't major issues, but I do think they are a definite improvement to the article.
Thanks! Jess talk| edits 09:05, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
I wasn't able to respond immediately because I'm currently traveling, and I've only had enough time to make minor edits. In any case, I would have liked to reply to this last comment of yours, but I'm afraid I won't have the time to follow up, so I'll have to decline. I still very much disagree with headlining an article about Lonnrot's compilation with a picture of someone else's book, and that will have to be changed at some point in order to promote this article to a respectable status. However, as I mentioned earlier, it will likely be changed to something more informative (and frankly, attractive) later anyway. I would suggest looking at other literature articles for precedent on this matter, such as Romeo and Juliet, Hamlet (or indeed any of Shakespeare's works), The raven, Gilgamesh are just a few. Even those few featured articles which do use the cover as an image cite the first edition (e.g. Candide). Either are preferable to the current state. In any case, I may come back to the article to make minor adjustments, if time allows. All the best, Jess talk| edits 07:38, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
http://www.nordicnames.de/wiki/Aino http://www.behindthename.com/name/seppo-1 http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/htimes/domestic-news/general/1430.html http://www.kirjastot.fi/fi-FI/tietopalvelu/kysymys.aspx?ID=76c4325d-ac1d-4c27-9ce0-899232881021
4 sites mentioning traditional Finnish names in connection with Kalevala. Thing is, it's not really written anywhere about the link between Kalevala and Finnish names although it is there. Not sure if sites like above are any good, this whole section may not be properly referenceable and may have to go, it's not a big loss, not really even a small loss.
I have also written to the Helsinki university almanac office maybe they have some article I can cite. I don't hold much hope and I've already spent far too much effort on a relatively unimportant part of the article. -- Lakkasuo ( talk) 10:36, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
British SF writer Michael Scott Rohan's The Winter of the World series used names, characters etc from the Kalevala 83.104.224.249 ( talk) 22:17, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
The article Kalevala (synopses) has been nominated for deletion. So, I guess anyone who has an interest here will also have an interest there and should go and give their t'pence worth. -- Lakkasuo ( talk) 18:01, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
The IPA notation recently got changed. Now, although close mid and open mid are somewhat similar, to me "ˈkɑlɛvɑlɑ" fits more than "ˈkɑlevɑlɑ". I will revert to the old version, but if anyone can shed some light on the matter it would be appreciated as I'm no expert on the inner workings of IPA and all that stuff. Thanks. -- Lakkasuo ( talk) 04:03, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
In line with the name of the article itself, the work should be referred to as "the Kalevala", not the awkward "The Kalevala". Jpatokal ( talk) 09:54, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
In the section History I came across the line: "The newest events (e.g. the arrival of Christianity) seem to be from the Iron Age.".
Up until that point I had simply accepted the claims of the piece, however I cannot understand this claim as anything but impossible as the Iron Age ended 600 years before Christ was even born.
Finding such an error made me wonder how well checked the other claims and references were Picking one at random, ref 11, provides this page: http://dbgw.finlit.fi/skvr/teksti.php?id=skvr11108660, as evidence that "Finnish folk poetry was first written down in the 17th century". I find it hard to understand how such a webpage in and of itself provides that. (edit: the page comes from http://dbgw.finlit.fi/skvr/, but imo still needs contextualisation to serve its purpose.)
Could anyone comment?
LookingGlass ( talk) 14:30, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
A person called Jussi Huovinen is the last living rune singer of the Kalevala and is very old, I think while he is still alive, and being the only living and last person to traditionally receive the Kalevala in an oral fashion deserves some mentioning \ recognition.
there is a webpage regarding him here
and one wiki entry on him which is hardly an entry, here
being the last alive, and the holder of a soon to be dead tradition of the oral Kalevala, I think a small mentioning of him being the last of this tradition on the Kalevala entry is indeed worthy, and any other reference to external sources etc — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.182.193.143 ( talk) 06:33, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
The first paragrapgh states: "The first version of The Kalevala (called The new Kalevala) was published in 1835."
While in the paragraph about the author we read: "Prior to the publication of The Kalevala, Elias Lönnrot compiled several related works including the three-part Kantele (1829–1831) the Old Kalevala (1835) and the Kanteletar (1840)."
It would seem logical to me for the first one to be wrong and the other one being right, but can someone please confirm and fix this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.156.157.66 ( talk) 05:58, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
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I saw that "Kalevala" as the title of the work was italicized sometimes but very inconsistently. As the title of a book it should be italicized throughout. I did this. I did not italicize it in quotations, nor in other uses such as "Kalevala metre" or cross-references.
I also saw that it was sometimes called "The Kalevala" and sometimes "the Kalevala", with italics (when used) as "The Kalevala" and "the Kalevala", respectively. I did not change most of these, though I think The Kalevala is less appropriate because the article is named "Kalevala". I leave this to others.
I also saw that, in citations, often book titles were quoted, as in "Title", and details were italicized, as in "Author, introduction, p.N (year)", which should be "Title, Author, year, introduction, p.N." I changed this where I saw it, which is probably not everywhere.
I hope everyone is okay with these edits, which to me seem standard and noncontroversial. If anyone objects, I suggest not reverting, because there are so many different edits in one batch, including minor edits that improve the style and are not listed here. Instead, let's discuss them. Thanks. Zaslav ( talk) 05:00, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Kalevala. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 12:06, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
The article mentions "The newest events, e.g. the arrival of Christianity, seem to be from the Iron Age", which would make the majority of users be stunned about how Christianity could have arrived before Jesus. The Iron Age namely ended in most of the world before the Common Era, with few exceptions in parts of Europe, mainly in Northern Europe, which few would know w/o being told or reminded. Therefore I added what is written in the article History of Finland, that in Finland the Iron Age lasted until 1,300 CE. That makes it clear that it's not a mistake or typo. I don't understand why another editor removed it as unnecessary. I am certainly not the only Wiki user who doesn't know that Finland didn't leave the Iron Age for some 1,300 years after what is assumed to be Jesus' lifetime; more likely, I'm part of a majority who's not aware of it. People can be curious about the Kalevala even w/o otherwise having a clue about Finland, for instance thanks to the recent BBC World Service programme about it, which targets mainly non-European English speakers from India, Africa, North America etc. If the issue is that the reader can click around until finding the date - I'm firmly in favour of being user-friendly and placing dates next to events and names, as it helps not disrupting the lecture of the article by constantly clicking back & forth. Cheers, Arminden ( talk) 04:36, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
Is Tolkien a relevant authority on this? Why does his disagreement deserve its own note? Also, the Note comes before Tolkien is even introduced in the article a few sentences later. A reader would have no idea who "Professor Tolkien" is and whether his disagreement is important. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.157.66.196 ( talk) 17:03, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
Why does the link to the Finnish page land on Robert Stigell rather than the Finnish Kalevala page? It seem to be correctly linked in WikiData. Akerbeltz ( talk) 17:11, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
This help request has been answered. If you need more help, you can , contact the responding user(s) directly on their user talk page, or consider visiting the Teahouse. |
Dear helpful colleagues at the Help Desk;
Please would you kindly read the exchange immediately above and provide an explanation for this error, then possibly also suggest a course of action to fix it and by whom, as I have never worked in this area of our encyclopaedia? As always, very many thanks for your helpful assistance.
With kind regards;
Patrick. ツ
Pdebee.
(talk)(become
old-fashioned!) 15:03, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
The lead starts
Regarding the last four wikilinks,
the first three are rather generic (to articles of a general nature, esp. No. 3), where as No. 4 is to a subject closely allied with the subject of the present article. The reader can see this using mouse-over (or by clicking the links), but I wonder if there is a way to make it more obvious. Of course, this is a quite general issue with wikilinking; there may be a style manual somewhere with recommandations on this. Any ideas? Nø ( talk) 07:28, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
This
level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on 14 dates. show |
|
||
How is pronounced the word Kalevala?-- 190.22.158.76 ( talk) 22:50, 16 April 2010 (UTC)
Hi there, I'm currently writing a paper alongside creating a piece of art inspired by the Kalevala. There are a few statements made in the article which I'm struggling to find referenced anywhere else. For instance:
"[Elias and the poem collectors] carefully noted the name of the poem singer, its age, the place of performance, and the date."
Where can I verify this statement? Thank you! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.154.230.70 ( talk) 13:59, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
Would be good to change all of the references to e.g. published books, papers or similar trusted sources. Currently the references are pointing to (self-published) sites like Geocities. Such resources aren't typically quoted in encylopedic text. Buddhaball ( talk) 17:47, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
This article doesn't nearly meet the criteria for a B-class on an objective level. It doesn't even meet the first listed requirement: "The article is suitably referenced, with inline citations where necessary. It has reliable sources, and any important or controversial material which is likely to be challenged is cited.". I am changing the rating of the article to C-class for all 3 projects, which even still is a stretch. Hopefully either I or another editor can clean the article up suitably to get it back into shape for a higher rating eventually. Jess talk| edits 07:53, 14 August 2010 (UTC)
User:Lakkasuo recent reverted two of my edits, here. These aren't major issues, but I do think they are a definite improvement to the article.
Thanks! Jess talk| edits 09:05, 17 August 2010 (UTC)
I wasn't able to respond immediately because I'm currently traveling, and I've only had enough time to make minor edits. In any case, I would have liked to reply to this last comment of yours, but I'm afraid I won't have the time to follow up, so I'll have to decline. I still very much disagree with headlining an article about Lonnrot's compilation with a picture of someone else's book, and that will have to be changed at some point in order to promote this article to a respectable status. However, as I mentioned earlier, it will likely be changed to something more informative (and frankly, attractive) later anyway. I would suggest looking at other literature articles for precedent on this matter, such as Romeo and Juliet, Hamlet (or indeed any of Shakespeare's works), The raven, Gilgamesh are just a few. Even those few featured articles which do use the cover as an image cite the first edition (e.g. Candide). Either are preferable to the current state. In any case, I may come back to the article to make minor adjustments, if time allows. All the best, Jess talk| edits 07:38, 24 August 2010 (UTC)
http://www.nordicnames.de/wiki/Aino http://www.behindthename.com/name/seppo-1 http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/htimes/domestic-news/general/1430.html http://www.kirjastot.fi/fi-FI/tietopalvelu/kysymys.aspx?ID=76c4325d-ac1d-4c27-9ce0-899232881021
4 sites mentioning traditional Finnish names in connection with Kalevala. Thing is, it's not really written anywhere about the link between Kalevala and Finnish names although it is there. Not sure if sites like above are any good, this whole section may not be properly referenceable and may have to go, it's not a big loss, not really even a small loss.
I have also written to the Helsinki university almanac office maybe they have some article I can cite. I don't hold much hope and I've already spent far too much effort on a relatively unimportant part of the article. -- Lakkasuo ( talk) 10:36, 18 August 2010 (UTC)
British SF writer Michael Scott Rohan's The Winter of the World series used names, characters etc from the Kalevala 83.104.224.249 ( talk) 22:17, 28 December 2011 (UTC)
The article Kalevala (synopses) has been nominated for deletion. So, I guess anyone who has an interest here will also have an interest there and should go and give their t'pence worth. -- Lakkasuo ( talk) 18:01, 29 September 2010 (UTC)
The IPA notation recently got changed. Now, although close mid and open mid are somewhat similar, to me "ˈkɑlɛvɑlɑ" fits more than "ˈkɑlevɑlɑ". I will revert to the old version, but if anyone can shed some light on the matter it would be appreciated as I'm no expert on the inner workings of IPA and all that stuff. Thanks. -- Lakkasuo ( talk) 04:03, 1 October 2010 (UTC)
In line with the name of the article itself, the work should be referred to as "the Kalevala", not the awkward "The Kalevala". Jpatokal ( talk) 09:54, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
In the section History I came across the line: "The newest events (e.g. the arrival of Christianity) seem to be from the Iron Age.".
Up until that point I had simply accepted the claims of the piece, however I cannot understand this claim as anything but impossible as the Iron Age ended 600 years before Christ was even born.
Finding such an error made me wonder how well checked the other claims and references were Picking one at random, ref 11, provides this page: http://dbgw.finlit.fi/skvr/teksti.php?id=skvr11108660, as evidence that "Finnish folk poetry was first written down in the 17th century". I find it hard to understand how such a webpage in and of itself provides that. (edit: the page comes from http://dbgw.finlit.fi/skvr/, but imo still needs contextualisation to serve its purpose.)
Could anyone comment?
LookingGlass ( talk) 14:30, 10 September 2012 (UTC)
A person called Jussi Huovinen is the last living rune singer of the Kalevala and is very old, I think while he is still alive, and being the only living and last person to traditionally receive the Kalevala in an oral fashion deserves some mentioning \ recognition.
there is a webpage regarding him here
and one wiki entry on him which is hardly an entry, here
being the last alive, and the holder of a soon to be dead tradition of the oral Kalevala, I think a small mentioning of him being the last of this tradition on the Kalevala entry is indeed worthy, and any other reference to external sources etc — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.182.193.143 ( talk) 06:33, 22 September 2012 (UTC)
The first paragrapgh states: "The first version of The Kalevala (called The new Kalevala) was published in 1835."
While in the paragraph about the author we read: "Prior to the publication of The Kalevala, Elias Lönnrot compiled several related works including the three-part Kantele (1829–1831) the Old Kalevala (1835) and the Kanteletar (1840)."
It would seem logical to me for the first one to be wrong and the other one being right, but can someone please confirm and fix this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 149.156.157.66 ( talk) 05:58, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
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I saw that "Kalevala" as the title of the work was italicized sometimes but very inconsistently. As the title of a book it should be italicized throughout. I did this. I did not italicize it in quotations, nor in other uses such as "Kalevala metre" or cross-references.
I also saw that it was sometimes called "The Kalevala" and sometimes "the Kalevala", with italics (when used) as "The Kalevala" and "the Kalevala", respectively. I did not change most of these, though I think The Kalevala is less appropriate because the article is named "Kalevala". I leave this to others.
I also saw that, in citations, often book titles were quoted, as in "Title", and details were italicized, as in "Author, introduction, p.N (year)", which should be "Title, Author, year, introduction, p.N." I changed this where I saw it, which is probably not everywhere.
I hope everyone is okay with these edits, which to me seem standard and noncontroversial. If anyone objects, I suggest not reverting, because there are so many different edits in one batch, including minor edits that improve the style and are not listed here. Instead, let's discuss them. Thanks. Zaslav ( talk) 05:00, 23 November 2017 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Kalevala. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 5 June 2024).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 09:46, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 12:06, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
The article mentions "The newest events, e.g. the arrival of Christianity, seem to be from the Iron Age", which would make the majority of users be stunned about how Christianity could have arrived before Jesus. The Iron Age namely ended in most of the world before the Common Era, with few exceptions in parts of Europe, mainly in Northern Europe, which few would know w/o being told or reminded. Therefore I added what is written in the article History of Finland, that in Finland the Iron Age lasted until 1,300 CE. That makes it clear that it's not a mistake or typo. I don't understand why another editor removed it as unnecessary. I am certainly not the only Wiki user who doesn't know that Finland didn't leave the Iron Age for some 1,300 years after what is assumed to be Jesus' lifetime; more likely, I'm part of a majority who's not aware of it. People can be curious about the Kalevala even w/o otherwise having a clue about Finland, for instance thanks to the recent BBC World Service programme about it, which targets mainly non-European English speakers from India, Africa, North America etc. If the issue is that the reader can click around until finding the date - I'm firmly in favour of being user-friendly and placing dates next to events and names, as it helps not disrupting the lecture of the article by constantly clicking back & forth. Cheers, Arminden ( talk) 04:36, 21 February 2021 (UTC)
Is Tolkien a relevant authority on this? Why does his disagreement deserve its own note? Also, the Note comes before Tolkien is even introduced in the article a few sentences later. A reader would have no idea who "Professor Tolkien" is and whether his disagreement is important. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.157.66.196 ( talk) 17:03, 3 March 2021 (UTC)
Why does the link to the Finnish page land on Robert Stigell rather than the Finnish Kalevala page? It seem to be correctly linked in WikiData. Akerbeltz ( talk) 17:11, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
This help request has been answered. If you need more help, you can , contact the responding user(s) directly on their user talk page, or consider visiting the Teahouse. |
Dear helpful colleagues at the Help Desk;
Please would you kindly read the exchange immediately above and provide an explanation for this error, then possibly also suggest a course of action to fix it and by whom, as I have never worked in this area of our encyclopaedia? As always, very many thanks for your helpful assistance.
With kind regards;
Patrick. ツ
Pdebee.
(talk)(become
old-fashioned!) 15:03, 28 August 2021 (UTC)
The lead starts
Regarding the last four wikilinks,
the first three are rather generic (to articles of a general nature, esp. No. 3), where as No. 4 is to a subject closely allied with the subject of the present article. The reader can see this using mouse-over (or by clicking the links), but I wonder if there is a way to make it more obvious. Of course, this is a quite general issue with wikilinking; there may be a style manual somewhere with recommandations on this. Any ideas? Nø ( talk) 07:28, 28 February 2023 (UTC)