This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
dont merge Tobias Conradi (Talk) 20:28, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
I've never heard of a so-called Black who called an Indian a "coolie." The article is a disingenuos pack of lies. 151.201.129.196 17:01, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
I removed the following material from the page. Since this page is about the ethnic slur term, keeping the following information here would inevitably look like a highly subjective attempt to justify or apologize for the use of the word. Perhaps this can be moved to some other article, say on the History of Jamaica tree. Jorge Stolfi 02:16, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Corrected the errors in the article as it relates to South Africa:
Irvin Khosa is a South African soccer administrator. Nicknamed "Iron Duke", he is the chairman of the South African organising committee of the 2010 FIFA World Cup, chairman of the South African Premier Soccer League and vice president of the South African Football Association. He is also owner of glamour South African Premiership side Orlando Pirates.There was recently a lot of controvercy because of his use of the word.-- 143.160.124.40 ( talk) 17:57, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I agree with these changes. Also note that there is a huge difference between the words "kaffer, kafir and kaffir." Not many English speaking people understand the correct word used among all races in SOUTH AFRICA refered to as "kaffer." This word is an Afrikaans word like "apartheid" and taken up in the English understanding and some times misundertood. Contributors should not get confuse by the AFRIKAANS word "Kaffer" and belief it has the same meaning as "kafir and kaffir." Coloured people and mainly in the Cape use the word "kaffer" as Afrikaans speaking white South Africans. This word cannot be seen as racist or ethnic slur as not many English speaking people understand the Afrikaans context this word is used in. They try to contribute to this site leading into further confusion due to their lack of the Afrikaans language. They normally generalise towards their English misunderstanding of the word "kaffer" and refer to the term "kafir or kaffir." This may lead to great confusion among white English speaking people whom do not even understand the colored/coloured Afrikaans speaking individuals use of Afrikaans. Generalisation is made to refer to "kaffer" as a racist or offensive word. For most Afrikaans speaking people the word "f u c k" or "O my God" is far more offensive that the comic or racist use of the word "kaffer" when used in the correct context, even among black South Africans. This is typical due to the misunderstanding of English speaking people of the Afrikaans language whom generalise the English meaning of an Afrikaans word. The reference that the use of the word "kaffer" may lead to prosecution is nonsens! This again is a perfect misunderstanding of the Afrikaans langauge and the context the word is used. NO cases of prosecution exist in South Africa for the use of the word "kaffer." The government may be prosecuted first as many name places refering to kaffer stil exist. Not to mention the general reference to kafferwaatlemoen that refers to a type of watermelon. == RV ==
I've reverted the two changes made earlier today.
Humansdorpie 18:06, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
197.245.193.183 ( talk) 10:47, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
Can someone remove the "Slang" section please. Saying that the shortened version "kaff" is used frequently by young people of the Western Cape is absolute nonsense. I can confirm that as I am one of them.
I deleted the reference to the film because the word used was 'sammy' not kaffir. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.144.148.48 ( talk) 08:26, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Certain editors do not seem to like the fact that Gandhi liberally used the word "Kaffir" and did not like native Africans in South Africa. These editors are bound to vandalize that section on the article by repetitively removing it without discussing why they want it removed. The reason is simple, these facts are from Gandhi's own writings in "Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi", his columns in the Gujarati newspaper of those times, his letters written to British officers in South Africa etc and so cannot be denied. Please do not make wikipedia a place of propaganda and tell us if these words from Gandhi were false. Regards, -- Roadahead ( talk) 18:27, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
I'll be editing the following line in the current form of the article: "Although used often inoffensively between the 16th and 19th centuries, including being used by Mahatma Gandhi[3], as racial tensions increased in 20th century South Africa, its use became more racially slanderous than just a general word to describe a race of people." Issues:
-- Roadahead ( talk) 18:45, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
An editor has marked the following piece of information as dubious:
"Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, during his stay in South Africa, often used the term "Kaffir" to refer to the native Black Africans. For example, he once wrote in Indian Opinion, "The Boer Government insulted the Indians by classing them with the Kaffirs."[3] Many such examples are cited in the book Gandhi Behind the Mask of Divinity, which alleges that Gandhi had a racist attitude towards the Blacks, whom he considered inferior to the Europeans and the Indians."
However, this editor has put no section on the talkpage containing his contentions despite the fact line contains information which is easily verifiable and is well cited. Gandhi's words where he extensively used the word "Kaffir" in derogatory way are present in "Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi" and not just in the book by author G. B. Singh. Another information given by this line above is also very well verifiable that the book contains several such examples. Please do not use wikipedia "dubious" template to mark and delete information within a day. This is not the intention of this tag. I feel the information conveyed by the line you marked dubious is verifiable and accurate. If you still think otherwise, prove this here on the discussion page. Otherwise, the "dubious" tag will be removed. -- Roadahead ( talk) 19:01, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
“ | Organizations and individuals that express views that are widely acknowledged by reliable sources as extremist should be used only as sources about themselves and in articles about themselves or their activities | ” |
I have some concerns about the massive recent additions to the page. I've already reverted it once [2] and it has been added back, so I'm here on the talk page to stave off an edit war.
I suspect from the comments on my talk page by the user who made these changes [3] [4] that it will turn into an edit war if I make any drastic changes myself to the article, but is there a consensus here to remove most or all of the new additions? It's possible that the user who wrote this has some good points that could be integrated into the article (if reliably sourced, of course), but I really don't think the article should be allowed to stand as it is. -- Dawn Bard ( talk) 16:13, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
I propose we merge Kaffir (ethnic slur) with Kaffir (historical usage in southern Africa). Both articles are about the same word, and address different periods of its use. For me, we should have one article with sections covering Etymology, Usage in various periods and countries, and the Current meaning. See nigger - one article can easily encompass both the history and current use of a word like this. -- hippo43 ( talk) 02:54, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Under the "[edit] Apartheid-era South Africa" section, it was only alledged by the accused that the victim called him a kafir. It was not found by the court and there was no other supporting evidence of the fact. It should be noted that the intention of Almond Nofomela was to steal from the farmer that alledgedly called him a kafir. All of it is in the cited documents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.19.76.237 ( talk) 19:35, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
"Kaffir is derived from the Arabic word kafir" "Kaffir is derived from the 'Boer'" Which is it? The sentence claiming it to be derived from "Boer" is at best marginally literate. I'm removing that sentence on the grounds that it seems unlikely and the already-cited marginal literacy. If whoever believes this to be correct can provide citations (unlikely, as Boer is Dutch for "farmer" and is entirely unrelated to the KFR root), they can put it back in. 174.65.175.154 ( talk) 02:13, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
I forgot to clarify a change made: if anybody is wondering, all I did was change the opening paragraph's section's ultimate paragraph's phrase from "In any case..." to "In either case...", as it is grammatically, and semantically, more appropriate. 41.160.162.144 ( talk) 18:50, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
Re the query in the following, viz.: The works of Richard Hakluyt[4] contains an early[when?] written use of the term in English. He writes: calling them Cafars and Gawars (Ilitterate), which is, infidels or disbelievers.[5]
The passage referenced dates to July 1568 according to the source it derives from. See "The Principal Navigations, Voyages, Traffiques, and Discoveries of the English Nation", Volume 4, p. 46 (for the quotation), and p. 44 (for its apparent date). Vancouveriensis ( talk) 02:20, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
By Richard Hakluyt, Edmund Goldsmid
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Kaffir (racial term). Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 03:43, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Kaffir (racial term). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:51, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
The pronunciation that's given is specifically for British English. To anyone who doesn't already know that, the pronunciation looks like it should be [KAF-uh]. Can someone please point this out through an edit, or change the pronunciation so it isn't just specific to British? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.113.151.63 ( talk) 01:54, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect K word. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Jalen Folf (talk) 19:02, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
In the early 20th century, Kaffirs was a common reference for South African mining shares traded on the LSE. People trading in these shares where called " Kaffir circus" also described in the Dictionary of South African English ( here). Although nowdays considered derogative, the term made the headlines of the London Times and other notable newspapers of those days and ought to be mentioned here. Yotwen ( talk) 06:45, 5 January 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
dont merge Tobias Conradi (Talk) 20:28, 11 July 2005 (UTC)
I've never heard of a so-called Black who called an Indian a "coolie." The article is a disingenuos pack of lies. 151.201.129.196 17:01, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
I removed the following material from the page. Since this page is about the ethnic slur term, keeping the following information here would inevitably look like a highly subjective attempt to justify or apologize for the use of the word. Perhaps this can be moved to some other article, say on the History of Jamaica tree. Jorge Stolfi 02:16, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
Corrected the errors in the article as it relates to South Africa:
Irvin Khosa is a South African soccer administrator. Nicknamed "Iron Duke", he is the chairman of the South African organising committee of the 2010 FIFA World Cup, chairman of the South African Premier Soccer League and vice president of the South African Football Association. He is also owner of glamour South African Premiership side Orlando Pirates.There was recently a lot of controvercy because of his use of the word.-- 143.160.124.40 ( talk) 17:57, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
I agree with these changes. Also note that there is a huge difference between the words "kaffer, kafir and kaffir." Not many English speaking people understand the correct word used among all races in SOUTH AFRICA refered to as "kaffer." This word is an Afrikaans word like "apartheid" and taken up in the English understanding and some times misundertood. Contributors should not get confuse by the AFRIKAANS word "Kaffer" and belief it has the same meaning as "kafir and kaffir." Coloured people and mainly in the Cape use the word "kaffer" as Afrikaans speaking white South Africans. This word cannot be seen as racist or ethnic slur as not many English speaking people understand the Afrikaans context this word is used in. They try to contribute to this site leading into further confusion due to their lack of the Afrikaans language. They normally generalise towards their English misunderstanding of the word "kaffer" and refer to the term "kafir or kaffir." This may lead to great confusion among white English speaking people whom do not even understand the colored/coloured Afrikaans speaking individuals use of Afrikaans. Generalisation is made to refer to "kaffer" as a racist or offensive word. For most Afrikaans speaking people the word "f u c k" or "O my God" is far more offensive that the comic or racist use of the word "kaffer" when used in the correct context, even among black South Africans. This is typical due to the misunderstanding of English speaking people of the Afrikaans language whom generalise the English meaning of an Afrikaans word. The reference that the use of the word "kaffer" may lead to prosecution is nonsens! This again is a perfect misunderstanding of the Afrikaans langauge and the context the word is used. NO cases of prosecution exist in South Africa for the use of the word "kaffer." The government may be prosecuted first as many name places refering to kaffer stil exist. Not to mention the general reference to kafferwaatlemoen that refers to a type of watermelon. == RV ==
I've reverted the two changes made earlier today.
Humansdorpie 18:06, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
197.245.193.183 ( talk) 10:47, 2 February 2016 (UTC)
Can someone remove the "Slang" section please. Saying that the shortened version "kaff" is used frequently by young people of the Western Cape is absolute nonsense. I can confirm that as I am one of them.
I deleted the reference to the film because the word used was 'sammy' not kaffir. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.144.148.48 ( talk) 08:26, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
Certain editors do not seem to like the fact that Gandhi liberally used the word "Kaffir" and did not like native Africans in South Africa. These editors are bound to vandalize that section on the article by repetitively removing it without discussing why they want it removed. The reason is simple, these facts are from Gandhi's own writings in "Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi", his columns in the Gujarati newspaper of those times, his letters written to British officers in South Africa etc and so cannot be denied. Please do not make wikipedia a place of propaganda and tell us if these words from Gandhi were false. Regards, -- Roadahead ( talk) 18:27, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
I'll be editing the following line in the current form of the article: "Although used often inoffensively between the 16th and 19th centuries, including being used by Mahatma Gandhi[3], as racial tensions increased in 20th century South Africa, its use became more racially slanderous than just a general word to describe a race of people." Issues:
-- Roadahead ( talk) 18:45, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
An editor has marked the following piece of information as dubious:
"Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, during his stay in South Africa, often used the term "Kaffir" to refer to the native Black Africans. For example, he once wrote in Indian Opinion, "The Boer Government insulted the Indians by classing them with the Kaffirs."[3] Many such examples are cited in the book Gandhi Behind the Mask of Divinity, which alleges that Gandhi had a racist attitude towards the Blacks, whom he considered inferior to the Europeans and the Indians."
However, this editor has put no section on the talkpage containing his contentions despite the fact line contains information which is easily verifiable and is well cited. Gandhi's words where he extensively used the word "Kaffir" in derogatory way are present in "Collected Works of Mahatma Gandhi" and not just in the book by author G. B. Singh. Another information given by this line above is also very well verifiable that the book contains several such examples. Please do not use wikipedia "dubious" template to mark and delete information within a day. This is not the intention of this tag. I feel the information conveyed by the line you marked dubious is verifiable and accurate. If you still think otherwise, prove this here on the discussion page. Otherwise, the "dubious" tag will be removed. -- Roadahead ( talk) 19:01, 31 August 2008 (UTC)
“ | Organizations and individuals that express views that are widely acknowledged by reliable sources as extremist should be used only as sources about themselves and in articles about themselves or their activities | ” |
I have some concerns about the massive recent additions to the page. I've already reverted it once [2] and it has been added back, so I'm here on the talk page to stave off an edit war.
I suspect from the comments on my talk page by the user who made these changes [3] [4] that it will turn into an edit war if I make any drastic changes myself to the article, but is there a consensus here to remove most or all of the new additions? It's possible that the user who wrote this has some good points that could be integrated into the article (if reliably sourced, of course), but I really don't think the article should be allowed to stand as it is. -- Dawn Bard ( talk) 16:13, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
I propose we merge Kaffir (ethnic slur) with Kaffir (historical usage in southern Africa). Both articles are about the same word, and address different periods of its use. For me, we should have one article with sections covering Etymology, Usage in various periods and countries, and the Current meaning. See nigger - one article can easily encompass both the history and current use of a word like this. -- hippo43 ( talk) 02:54, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Under the "[edit] Apartheid-era South Africa" section, it was only alledged by the accused that the victim called him a kafir. It was not found by the court and there was no other supporting evidence of the fact. It should be noted that the intention of Almond Nofomela was to steal from the farmer that alledgedly called him a kafir. All of it is in the cited documents. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.19.76.237 ( talk) 19:35, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
"Kaffir is derived from the Arabic word kafir" "Kaffir is derived from the 'Boer'" Which is it? The sentence claiming it to be derived from "Boer" is at best marginally literate. I'm removing that sentence on the grounds that it seems unlikely and the already-cited marginal literacy. If whoever believes this to be correct can provide citations (unlikely, as Boer is Dutch for "farmer" and is entirely unrelated to the KFR root), they can put it back in. 174.65.175.154 ( talk) 02:13, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
I forgot to clarify a change made: if anybody is wondering, all I did was change the opening paragraph's section's ultimate paragraph's phrase from "In any case..." to "In either case...", as it is grammatically, and semantically, more appropriate. 41.160.162.144 ( talk) 18:50, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
Re the query in the following, viz.: The works of Richard Hakluyt[4] contains an early[when?] written use of the term in English. He writes: calling them Cafars and Gawars (Ilitterate), which is, infidels or disbelievers.[5]
The passage referenced dates to July 1568 according to the source it derives from. See "The Principal Navigations, Voyages, Traffiques, and Discoveries of the English Nation", Volume 4, p. 46 (for the quotation), and p. 44 (for its apparent date). Vancouveriensis ( talk) 02:20, 16 November 2015 (UTC)
By Richard Hakluyt, Edmund Goldsmid
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Kaffir (racial term). Please take a moment to review
my edit. If necessary, add {{
cbignore}}
after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{
nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— cyberbot II Talk to my owner:Online 03:43, 10 January 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Kaffir (racial term). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:51, 26 December 2017 (UTC)
The pronunciation that's given is specifically for British English. To anyone who doesn't already know that, the pronunciation looks like it should be [KAF-uh]. Can someone please point this out through an edit, or change the pronunciation so it isn't just specific to British? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.113.151.63 ( talk) 01:54, 24 February 2019 (UTC)
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect K word. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. Jalen Folf (talk) 19:02, 3 December 2019 (UTC)
In the early 20th century, Kaffirs was a common reference for South African mining shares traded on the LSE. People trading in these shares where called " Kaffir circus" also described in the Dictionary of South African English ( here). Although nowdays considered derogative, the term made the headlines of the London Times and other notable newspapers of those days and ought to be mentioned here. Yotwen ( talk) 06:45, 5 January 2024 (UTC)